Heritage Auctions Thread

[Dumars2001 | 164]

WATA (severely back-logged with submissions) and Heritage Auctions (abundance of games being sent in to be auctioned + 30% total commission of sold price) had a really good thing/gold mine going for them when sealed games were going for 5 figures and should have been very satisfied with that. 

BUT, they finally got too greedy and we started to see (allegedly manipulating) games ending at 6 figures and 7 figures.

The $1,560,000 SMB 64 in my opinion was their final nail in the coffin for them. That sale raised too many eyebrows, questions and had people turning over every (Karl Jobst/others) stone they could, to get to the bottom of things and make sure that these were in fact legit sales. 

I am sure WATA and Hertitage wish they could have a do-over, but it appears to be too late for them with many people/collectors at this point. They both (my humble opinion) have lost a lot of credibility going forward and I think it will take them a long time to gain back the trust in people/collectors. The first thing they both could do, is have their top (Deniz, Jim, Jeff, etc.) people come out and say something on the record/show some kind of proof to refute the allegations against them ASAP. 

WATA should announce that they are going to release a population report ASAP (like today) and Heritage Auctions should announce that they are going to accept any legit grading company (VGA/CGC in the future) into their auctions, effective immediately.

It is kind of like getting away with a crime once or maybe even multiple times and not stopping, because you get over confident/complacent/unsatisfied, because.....

Eventually you are going to get caught and in this case, it looks like WATA and Heritage Auctions has finally been exposed. Just my 2 cents on the whole ordeal and I want to add that all the accusations look credible to me at this point, but I will still say these are alleged allegations against Wata Games/Heritage Auctions and if they are proven to be untrue by them, I will be the first to apologize to them and admit that I made a mistake. 

[Dumars2001 | 164]

22 minutes ago, OptOut said:

I am expecting record breaking prices to continue for another couple years or so, based on where we seem to be on the bubble chart.

There are still plenty of green rubes with cash to throw away to get into the market, and this controversy is nothing more than extra publicity for the market. Those already invested are doubling down, as we have seen, and newbies only see the dollar signs.

It will be like the coin boom and crash, by the seeming of things, it'll go up and up and up and then smack down to earth (I mean still higher than 2019, but not ridiculous like today) and stay that way indefinitely.

Yes, I didn't think of your point of view, but it does make a lot of sense.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

See thats the problem, the burying the media, the doubling down on the mistakes to validate the appearance of not being a mistake.

Hell as much as I said two years ago, a year ago, months ago even I wouldn't do it.  I won't lie, I'm quite tempted to swap my sealed game I have for a pretty MINTY CIB one.  The money would be so helpful right now, and not having the threat of something happening being my issue but the next one is a factor too.

I'd rather have a not 30year old failing stove and microwave, replace my shit kitchen cabinets too with what I could get from that game. (Pokemon Red) and from what I've seen I could get in the $5-7000+ range for it realistically since I refuse to grade the thing which would add considerable more.

[LifeGame | 760]

8 hours ago, Rhapsody98 said:

TRUE COLLECTORS FILL THEIR HOUSES UP WITH CRAP AND NEVER PART WITH A SINGLE ITEM.  SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE FOLKS IN THE BACK!!

 

In good fun :

So if i sell just one of my sealed othellos i am no longer a collector, well darn i sold a few in the last 20 years

And all my life i thought I was a collector, I wasted my life, Ill see myself out of the hobby now...

 

[OptOut | 8,884]

Great contribution to the discussion from our friend Shawn at Reserved Investments:

ALSO, great shout out to VIDEO GAME SAGE in the video!!! 

I would LOVE to see him join the fray in this thread, I'm pretty sure he has an account and/or lurks here occasionally!

This has worked every time so far, so here goes:

Shawn Reserved Investments, Shawn Reserved Investments, Shawn Reserved Investments!!! 

[8bitsupremacy | 208]

Random story I wanted to share that is somewhat pertinent to the conversation, or just Wata in general: A couple years back, right before Wata was officially launched, a buddy and I took a day trip out of Chicago and went up into Wisconsin in the dead of winter to hit a few game stores and flea markets in the Kenosha/Racine area.  On our list of stops was a place I'd never been to before (but always heard of) called Inner Child Collectibles in Kenosha, WI.  Was told by some locals they had some old games there so we checked it out.  Wasn't really anything for sale out on the floor but there was an empty official World of Nintendo store cabinet against a wall, and stacks of really good uncommon NES games behind the counter (I saw the shimmering bright blue glow of a Pesterminator cart and that's all I can remember now).  I inquired to the man behind the counter about the WoN cabinet.  His response was, "Oh that's not for sale, it's my son's and he's just storing it here."  Fair enough...I asked about the NES games behind the counter..."Oh those aren't for sale either, they are my son's, he's saving them for this video game grading service he's starting soon...maybe you've heard of him?  His name is @supernesman on Instagram." Ah yes...that guy.  I knew of him...I told him I'd heard of him and that yes I've seen the account.  He then went on basically a 20 minute pitch about how the grading company is going to blow the hobby up and bring it to the next level...then inevitably asked me what game I thought was going to be the most valued/sought after game years down the road.  I answered, begrudgingly (I was already annoyed with this conversation at this point), "I don't know, Stadium Events?".  He replies, "No.........Super Mario Bros!" then went on to make comparisons to comics with first appearance of Batman or Spiderman and all that kind of stuff to get his point across.  I kinda just nodded and politely bowed out of the conversation shortly after that.  We said our goodbyes and left the store.  When my friend and I got back in the car, we both started laughing about the experience saying "What the hell was THAT all about?  Yeah right, Super Mario Bros?!?  Grading games?!!  What the fuck is that guy talking about??!   Ok buddy good luck to your son with all that...hardee har har har *more laughing and shaking our heads in disbelief*"....and that was that.  We went on with our day and didn't really give that experience much more thought until years later when that grading company did in fact explode in popularity.

And that's my story.  I coincidentally met Deniz's dad, at a small collectibles store in Kenosha he owns, right before the launch of WATA games, when it was still in its incubational period.  In retrospect now maybe the joke is on us because we could have gone and scooped up all the sealed Super Mario Bros in the Midwest with that hot insider info, but...eh, I still think it's all just silly.  It IS interesting though now, thinking back, that they already had an agenda for SMB to be THE game, or so it seems to me.  Also strange there were a bunch of games set aside that supposedly belonged to Deniz, for him to grade with his own company?  Maybe that's a complete assumption and those stacks of games were other people's stuff idk.  Just a weird story I felt like sharing.  That's all.  Take what you will from it.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by 8bitsupremacy
Typo

[phart010 | 1,707]

3 minutes ago, 8bitsupremacy said:

Random story I wanted to share that is somewhat pertinent to the conversation, or just Wata in general: A couple years back, right before Wata was officially launched, a buddy and I took a day trip out of Chicago and went up into Wisconsin in the dead of winter to hit a few game stores and flea markets in the Kenosha/Racine area.  On our list of stops was a place I'd never been to before (but always heard of) called Inner Child Collectibles in Kenosha, WI.  Was told by some locals they had some old games there so we checked it out.  Wasn't really anything for sale out on the floor but there was an empty official World of Nintendo store cabinet against a wall, and stacks of really good uncommon NES games behind the counter (I saw the shimmering bright blue glow of a Pesterminator cart and that's all I can remember now).  I inquired to the man behind the counter about the WoN cabinet.  His response was, "Oh that's not for sale, it's my son's and he's just storing it here."  Fair enough...I asked about the NES games behind the counter..."Oh those aren't for sale either, they are my son's, he's saving them for this video game grading service he's starting soon...maybe you've heard of him?  His name is @supernesman on Instagram." Ah yes...that guy.  I knew of him...I told him I'd heard of him and that yes I've seen the account.  He then went on basically a 20 minute pitch about how the grading company is going to blow the hobby up and bring it to the next level...then inevitably asked me what game I thought was going to be the most valued/sought after game years down the road.  I answered, begrudgingly (I was already annoyed with this conversation at this point), "I don't know, Stadium Events?".  He replies, "No.........Super Mario Bros!" then went on to make comparisons to comics with first appearance of Batman or Spiderman and all that kind of stuff to get his point across.  I kinda just nodded and politely bowed out of the conversation shortly after that.  We said our goodbyes and left the store.  When my friend and I got back in the car, we both started laughing about the experience saying "What the hell was THAT all about?  Yeah right, Super Mario Bros?!?  Grading games?!!  What the fuck is that guy talking about??!   Ok buddy good luck to your son with all that...hardee har har har *more laughing and shaking our heads in disbelief*"....and that was that.  We went on with our day and didn't really give that experience much more thought until years later when that grading company did in fact explode in popularity.

And that's my story.  I coincidentally met Deniz's dad, at a small collectibles store in Kenosha he owns, right before the launch of WATA games, when it was still in it's incubational period.  In retrospect now maybe the joke is on us because we could have gone and scooped up all the sealed Super Mario Bros in the Midwest with that hot insider info, but...eh, I still think it's all just silly.  It IS interesting though now, thinking back, that they already had an agenda for SMB to be THE game, or so it seems to me.  Also strange there were a bunch of games set aside that supposedly belonged to Deniz, for him to grade with his own company?  Maybe that's a complete assumption and those stacks of games were other people's stuff idk.  Just a weird story I felt like sharing.  That's all.  Take what you will from it.

 

 

 

 

How bout adding in some line breaks to your monster paragraphs ‍

[OptOut | 8,884]

1 minute ago, phart010 said:

How bout adding in some line breaks to your monster paragraphs ‍

With a story like that, I don't think I could contain myself enough to write in anything other than excited, half-breath, run-on sentences either, lol! 

[Tanooki | 4,933]

That video is an epic slap that needed to happen right on top of what Karl started.  Keep em coming, this needs to keep rolling.  I'm not sure how big this guy is, but he seems to know his stuff on investments, and the rest, and if he's dog whistling this crap, that says enough as he's going into the larger impact picture of this.

[8bitsupremacy | 208]

8 minutes ago, phart010 said:

How bout adding in some line breaks to your monster paragraphs ‍

 

8 minutes ago, phart010 said:

How bout adding in some line breaks to your monster paragraphs ‍

Y'all can eat my ass.

[Foochie776 | 1,052]

I love how his “expert collectors” or whatever he called them was Pat Contiri and the Reserved Investment guy. Come the fuck on

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Foochie776 said:

I love how his “expert collectors” or whatever he called them was Pat Contiri and the Reserved Investment guy. Come the fuck on

How is Pat not an expert collector? He's been collecting and creating retro game content for well over a decade. 

[Richardhead | 2,813]

2 minutes ago, Shane7951 said:

How is Pat not an expert collector? He's been collecting and creating retro game content for well over a decade. 

I hate to agree with you, but yeah…. I’d say Pat is an expert collector. 
Does he annoy a lot of people? Yes.

Are a lot of people jealous of him? Yes.

Has he collected video games for decades? Yes.

I would say he’s an expert…

 

[Richardhead | 2,813]

29 minutes ago, Foochie776 said:

I love how his “expert collectors” or whatever he called them was Pat Contiri and the Reserved Investment guy. Come the fuck on

Shawn is also an expert collector. The guy makes a living of “collecting”. 
 

[GPX | 1,369]

27 minutes ago, Foochie776 said:

I love how his “expert collectors” or whatever he called them was Pat Contiri and the Reserved Investment guy. Come the fuck on

To be fair, despite Pat’s lack of depth of knowledge on graded/sealed games, I’m sure he has some general understanding of the market trends over the years. And as a sealed collector, I rather him giving me advice than someone like “the dentist” and his clan of price pumpers. At least from a financial safety point of view. 

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]

I love the CUpodcast and I don’t listen to reserved investments too often, but from what I’ve seen, Shawn is obviously a sharp guy and knows what he is talking about. I’ve also never heard of Karl Jobst until this video but I’m now a fan. 
 

also the video is now up to 800k views. WE NEED A MILLION. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by WalterWhiteJr.

[Richardhead | 2,813]

I have a sealed game that I wish would sell for a ton of money. It won’t, but I’d sell in a heartbeat if there was any interest.

[inasuma | 1,203]

1 hour ago, Foochie776 said:

I love how his “expert collectors” or whatever he called them was Pat Contiri and the Reserved Investment guy. Come the fuck on

to be fair, shawn has disclosed that he's been in the game buying/selling business for over 20 years, but he never claimed to be a collector really.

all said and done, you don't need to be a collector or even really a sealed game expert to see the volatility in the market. it takes like five brain cells? maybe six?

[PuppyWaffles | 1,853]

II take a break from collecting and come back to this shit show? Please God yes crash the market, I want all the games!

 

 

[OptOut | 8,884]

7 minutes ago, PuppyWaffles said:

II take a break from collecting and come back to this shit show? Please God yes crash the market, I want all the games!

 

 

Holy shit Puppy Waffles! Good to fuggin see ya brah, welcome back!

[MiamiSlice | 3,095]

12 hours ago, MinusWorlds said:

I have nothing but love for all of you. Truly. I miss the community that a lot of us built together. 
 

I was very disheartened to see my name dragged into the Wata/HA market manipulation article. 
 

Those of you who know me personally know I always do my best to act with integrity and have built my reputation over 20+ years in this hobby. I hope my contributions speak for themselves. 
 

The only thing I’ll say on the matter is this.  At no time did I try to manipulate the market, never, I wrote an article that Wata published about the state of the sealed and graded video game market. It was my opinion and at no time did Wata try to direct me in any one place. I simply shared my collecting journey and gave an update as to how things have changed and where we are. Now those words are being used against me to try and paint a picture of me being one of the manipulators. It’s sad to be honest with you all. 
 

I dedicated thousands of hours of my life into this hobby. Thousands. I’ve always tried to help others. I created the sealed collecting guide. I did my best to always act with integrity and professionalism and help others with their collecting journeys. I’ve worked with many of you on projects and had the absolute pleasure of calling some of you friends. 
 

Seth tried to sell sales data, and while 100% valuable information, and quite honestly well worth the $5, it wasn’t what he marketed it as, a population report. Historical sales data is just that, a record of past sales, it is nothing like a population report.

 

I confronted him and told him to stop calling it that. For whatever reason he refused and that digressed to me being accused of “bilking” buyers because I sell video games. I said I welcome a true pop report because it will confirm what WE know. In relation to all other collectibles sealed video games are far and away rarer. In turn with the pop reports my games would increase in value, meaning my collection. He took that as me saying I’m making tons of money and labeled me a money grubber. 
 

He continued to peddle his data as a pop report. I again asked him to stop. He blocked me. Then two days ago included me in his article. 

I can’t really explain how disheartened I was, and still am. It seems all the work I’ve done in the hobby was for nothing. I’d like to think I had a part in bringing sealed and graded collecting to where it is today. I’m not talking about the money,  I’m talking about it being recognized as a legitimate collectible hobby. I poured over 2 decades into this. 
 

I just wanted you all to hear this directly from me. Again, I love you all, and hope you all see the truth

It was always for the love of the hobby.  

 

Peace ✌ 

MinusWorlds

 

 

I said I wouldn't engage in this thread but I'll make an exception for this. 

I was PISSED OFF with what Seth was insinuating in that post. Please don't let this troll get you down. He, like many others, was convinced that evil was afoot before he started digging and is quick to accuse anyone he thinks is involved. 

I know it doesn't count for much coming from me but I think very highly of you and hope you will continue doing what you do. 

To the rest of you, you should be wary of anyone who dismisses valid criticism of their "reporting" with attacks & accusations. 

DISCLAIMER: IN DEFENDING MINUSWORLDS I AM NOT DEFENDING WATA, HERITAGE AUCTIONS, DENIZ, HALPERIN, LECCE, OR ANY OTHER PERSONS OR BUSINESSES. I DO NOT SUPPORT OR CONDONE "SHILL BIDDING," "MARKET MANIPULATION," OR "TOMFOOLERY."

^ I have to publish this kind of disclaimer now. 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

I think this game room tour has been posted earlier, but I'm gonna post it again:

I love how Deniz focuses on the shitty comic / sports games, did he really say he remembers playing Tecmo Bowl in the dorm at uni? Get the eff outta here, not at his age he wasn't. Oh wait, just noticed the Goldin auctions posted the video.

Then there's that title of "The best video game collection you'll ever see". Hold on guys...*walks over to the fcgamer game room, walks in, takes a look, leaves*

Well looks like the video didn't deliver, I'd personally place my collection over his, I mean a few sealed games that he pumped up prices on, and then the exact same full sets everyone and their grandma's secret lover has, yeah just doesn't do much for me, at all. If anything, it's a rock hard to flaccid moment.

[AdamW | 713]

OK, c'mon guys, own up, who told Seth they'd seen Jared Kushner down the flea markets buying up all the Wario's Woods

 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

1 hour ago, Richardhead said:

I hate to agree with you, but yeah…. I’d say Pat is an expert collector. 
Does he annoy a lot of people? Yes.

Are a lot of people jealous of him? Yes.

Has he collected video games for decades? Yes.

I would say he’s an expert…

 

I fully agree with this.  Regardless of how one feels about him, Pat checks enough boxes to qualify for expert status.  And while there are definitely guys that would be a better representative to use for sealed collecting, one doesn't have to collect sealed games to know enough about it to comment.  I wish there were more experts, or a better quality one than Pat, but you have to remember that he's also a recognizable face.  People who don't know much about the hobby may have seen Pat on Youtube, whereas other experts don't really have that face that would lend gravitas to the statements they make.  So like it or not, Pat was probably the ideal person to have as an expert hobbyist.

 

2 hours ago, 8bitsupremacy said:

I answered, begrudgingly (I was already annoyed with this conversation at this point), "I don't know, Stadium Events?"

Honestly, if you're looking in terms of rarity, there's actually several games that would qualify as rarer than SE in sealed condition.  Titles that you probably wouldn't expect.  Hell, Tim Atwood had between 12 and 18 (depending whether he had two or three cases), and the 6-12 that he parted out are more than the number of copies that a few other titles got.  He did have a point about the first appearances, but since Mario's first appearance was Donkey Kong, I would argue that SMB would be better equated to Amazing Spider-Man #1 than Amazing Fantasy #15   All that said, I would've argued that from a long-term collectible standpoint, SMB sealed would 100% be more sought after than Stadium Events ever would be due to desirability.  But from a rarity standpoint, you're still wrong about SE being the top of the heap.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

6 hours ago, DarkKobold said:

I think it all comes down to "intent." If you buy something with the intent to hold it, you're a collector. Even if you sell it later, whether it's because of waning interest or financial duress, the intent was to buy and hold on to it. If you buy something today because you think you'll be able to sell it for more in the future, then you're just an investor or speculator.

If you sell off your collection, regardless of intent, at that moment, you're no longer a collector.  Selling off a game or two because you need the money but hanging onto the rest, sure, keep the title, but dumping the whole kit and kaboodle, you forfeit the title.  You could be again, when you started collecting again, but actively dumping your collection makes you not a collector in my eyes.  As for the folks who have a side collection and are buying and selling graded games like mad of late but are claiming to be collectors of them...I don't buy it, as they're not intending to hold onto them any longer than they have to in order to maximize profit.  Investing/speculating on the current bubble for graded games qualifies folks moreso as investors/speculators at that point than collectors, as it's clear what they're really focused on at that point.  But, that could just be me.

6 hours ago, inasuma said:

Hey guys my game with an A+ seal has a hole

Special treatment confirmed?

My A+ still seals and has a hole, but I get no special treatment.  Am I alone here? 

4 hours ago, OptOut said:

I am expecting record breaking prices to continue for another couple years or so, based on where we seem to be on the bubble chart.

Could be, but I think it may also depend on what and how much additional information Karl Jobst has in his possession, and depending on the nature of it, if that info makes it into the hands of relevant authorities.  If the FTC starts kicking in doors and those reports start making the rounds (likely with recaps about all the 80s shenanigans and quietly settled suits brought against Heritage for shill bidding, etc. showing up on regular, mainstream news media), I think that would shoot us much farther forward on the bubble chart.  Maybe you could take the chart and draw in a dotted line, like in Chutes 'n Ladders?  "Oh no, you landed on FTC Investigation!  Slide forward 25 squares!"