OptOut | 8,890 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 hours ago, FireHazard51 said: Rudy is a closet sealed NES collector! Watch towards the end when he mentions what he has and pulls out some ungraded sealed games. And this dude IS an investor of playing cards and his take of NES sealed stuff was VERY interesting. Answer my PMs you lazy bum! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,890 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 59 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said: But seriously, there's way more than a few sentences. Short short version- Video has come out showing potential shenanigans Dain's name popped up in said video, so he came here to answer questions Karl (video creator) has also come here to ask and answer questions Lots of back and forth between old time NA'ers about every subject under the sun @OptOut clowning fools like a honest to god CHAMP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inasuma | 1,203 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Gloves said: The only thing in that auction that might have interested me would have been Majora's Mask, but I still can't stand Wata's vertical case on horizontal boxed games. I stand by what I've always said - piss poor decision. LOOK AT THIS! Who the hell wants to display their games like this? NOBODY. ZERO people and you CAN'T convince me otherwise. The ONLY reason to have a game looking like this is because "It's Wata so it's worth money". They even HAVE (had!?!?) a horizontal case for these, but nobody gets em cuz they look different; I can't even find a photo for reference but I swear they exist, rarer than the games they're holding! UGH! can confirm. i've graded snes and n64 and wata took the worst compromise for this. i'd rather they just make the label ultra-wide with tons of extra white-space so the game can be properly displayed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy82 | 782 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, OptOut said: @OptOut clowning fools like a honest to god CHAMP. The crying Dain portrait with the money bags and empty game shelves makes this whole thread worth it imo. If I could find it in this tome I would repost it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel3090 | 26 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, BriGuy82 said: The crying Dain portrait with the money bags and empty game shelves makes this whole thread worth it imo. If I could find it in this tome I would repost it. 1 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inasuma | 1,203 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, FireHazard51 said: Rudy is a closet sealed NES collector! Watch towards the end when he mentions what he has and pulls out some ungraded sealed games. And this dude IS an investor of playing cards and his take of NES sealed stuff was VERY interesting. this is why i dont think you need to be a sealed games expert to see the shenanigans going on in the market. sure, some games are genuinely rare, but what matters more is how these games are achieving the price heights they are, and as Rudy says: if there's smoke, there's probably fire. nothing can be said definitively until the FTC or another body takes action but if we're being totally honest it will surprise no one (except the ultra-invested) if/when WATA gets the book thrown at them. 3 hours ago, karljobst said: Actually, NCI (Halperin's grading company) was basically destroyed. If the FTC comes down on Wata it will do major damage to them in the broader market. Especially from investors who bought Wata graded games who may have grounds to sue. RIP if wata needs to send everyone's games back in small flat rate boxes Edited August 30, 2021 by inasuma 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel3090 | 26 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 If people even get their games back inasuma.. they may go belly up quick and that's that. Certainly scummy enough that it wouldn't surprise me. 1 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyWaffles | 1,853 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Archangel3090 said: If people even get their games back inasuma.. they may go belly up quick and that's that. Certainly scummy enough that it wouldn't surprise me. If you look at their website they say turnaround is 150 business days, if they go belly up people aren't getting jack back. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy82 | 782 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, Archangel3090 said: Lol, it's like the artwork of a serial killer. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,814 Administrator · Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, BriGuy82 said: Lol, it's like the artwork of a serial killer. I won't even be surprised, man. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamW | 713 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, karljobst said: @AdamWI know you were hung up the fraud aspect so let me give you some more concrete info. https://www.watagames.com/learn/blog/post/the-carolina-collection/ Here Wata endorses and promotes the sale of the Carolina Collection. This counts as an endorsement of a product as per FTC guideliness. The FTC has rules in relation to misleading advertisements, and there is a specific statute that is relevant here. https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-releases/ftc-publishes-final-guides-governing-endorsements-testimonials/091005revisedendorsementguides.pdf Statute 255.5 Disclosure of material connections. When there exists a connection between the endorser (Wata) and the seller (Jeff Meyer) of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience), such connection must be fully disclosed. The connection is that Jeff Meyer is a Director of Wata games. So not only did Jeff grade his entire collection, and flip it through Heritage auctions as a Director (this needs to be investigated), but also used Wata to advertise his collection without disclosing the relationship which broke FTC guidelines in relation to a misleading endorsement. I believe as soon as the FTC investigates this (which they will), Wata will be facing a fine here. Thanks for the flag, Karl. I'd definitely agree there seems to be a case to answer there. Edit: BTW, as a minor correction - it doesn't materially affect the case, purely for accuracy - I believe Jeff sold the CC games through certifiedlink, not HA. This is mentioned in the article. Edited August 30, 2021 by AdamW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel3090 | 26 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Gloves said: I won't even be surprised, man. Want to play a game? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,890 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gloves said: I won't even be surprised, man. Nothing has been proven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,814 Administrator · Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, OptOut said: Nothing has been proven. Nor denied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamW | 713 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 hours ago, karljobst said: Actually, NCI (Halperin's grading company) was basically destroyed. If the FTC comes down on Wata it will do major damage to them in the broader market. Especially from investors who bought Wata graded games who may have grounds to sue. I'm not sure it's a perfect comparison, though. What really did the coin grading company in (as I understand it) is that the FTC slapped then with a requirement to include a statement with every graded coin that it had been graded loosely. This was because a key part of the case there was that coins were being over graded. This case involves potential false advertising, not shonky grading. So as you say, if the case were made and proven (or settled) the penalty would likely be a fine, but it's hard to see how the FTC could add a requirement like the coin grading case one, because this case doesn't involve grading. In that case WATA might just decide to pay the fine and try to gut it out... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,890 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Just now, Gloves said: Nor denied. Hey now, I'M not the one on trial here!!! Who knows how many bodies Jim Halperin and the WATA boys have buried out back! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOURTURN | 1,256 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 3 hours ago, PuppyWaffles said: Why wouldn't you? When Wata's motto was "We Grade Everything" I knew it was a cash grab, especially when they started grading the Mario Amiibo Cereal boxes... The irony to that motto is that I ended up choosing CAS to grade my copy of Dragon Quest VII (PS one Books) just because the dimensions were not the same as its U.S. counterpart. So for me, their slogan is just a bad joke. With them grading cereal boxes making me laugh because VGA, UKG, and CAS all have graded cereal boxes at some point. 3 hours ago, final fight cd said: this thread is out of control. I see dain getting some flack, people are switching back to VGA. It's a lot to comb through all the pages. anybody care to give a couple sentence summary of all the highlights? Well Timmy Tommy Glove's evil twin final fight cd... There are now talks that say certain key members that are tied to GoCollect, Wata Games, and Heritage Auctions might have created the cause behind the series of "record breaking" sales. And people are going back to VGA because I am the only one here that have used CAS when it comes to graded games, even though I still plan to use VGA for any non-Japanese games I might get in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karljobst | 242 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, AdamW said: Thanks for the flag, Karl. I'd definitely agree there seems to be a case to answer there. Edit: BTW, as a minor correction - it doesn't materially affect the case, purely for accuracy - I believe Jeff sold the CC games through certifiedlink, not HA. This is mentioned in the article. The CC was sold through HA - https://comics.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/nintendoage-founder-s-private-collection-offered-through-heritage-auctions.s?releaseId=3744 Edited August 30, 2021 by karljobst 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karljobst | 242 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 6 hours ago, AdamW said: I'm not sure it's a perfect comparison, though. What really did the coin grading company in (as I understand it) is that the FTC slapped then with a requirement to include a statement with every graded coin that it had been graded loosely. This was because a key part of the case there was that coins were being over graded. This case involves potential false advertising, not shonky grading. So as you say, if the case were made and proven (or settled) the penalty would likely be a fine, but it's hard to see how the FTC could add a requirement like the coin grading case one, because this case doesn't involve grading. In that case WATA might just decide to pay the fine and try to gut it out... Yeah I didn't mean about extra regulation, but rather just from bad press and lack of faith from the market. There would be more repercussions than just a fine was my only point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,372 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 13 hours ago, WalterWhiteJr. said: This is VGA pop report data from several years ago for Mario 64: Super Mario 64 (1996): U95+(1), U95(2), 95(4), U90(3), 90+(4), 90(16), 85+(18), 85(19), 80+(11), 80(4), 75+(4), 75(1) I’m going to say that all the 90+ and above are equivalent to 9.8 A++ and I’ll be generous and say half of the 90s will cross to equivalent. that’s 22 right there. This data is several years old. Given the explosion in popularity since, I don’t think it’s crazy to think that these numbers have doubled since. I’ll be generous yet again and just say 1.5X. Now we are up to 33. Toss in the 2 actual Wata 9.8 A++ and we are at 35. You honestly don’t think that there’s at LEAST 15 9.8 A++ equivalents that are raw or in cases? Not every sealed collector is a social media whore or cares about grading. The more I type this out, the more I’m convincing myself that 50 is actually on the low end. When you see a “U” grade, that implies the game came from a factory case of a pack of sealed games. The 6 Uncirculated grades are likely to have all come from the same factory case. You’d then have to wonder how many more factory cases like that still exist among hardcore nuts? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhiteJr. | 1,164 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 34 minutes ago, GPX said: When you see a “U” grade, that implies the game came from a factory case of a pack of sealed games. The 6 Uncirculated grades are likely to have all come from the same factory case. You’d then have to wonder how many more factory cases like that still exist among hardcore nuts? There are more. Mario 64 is only 25 years old. That’s not that old at all. People were actively collecting Videogames in the late 90s. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,372 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 minute ago, WalterWhiteJr. said: There are more. Mario 64 is only 25 years old. That’s not that old at all. People were actively collecting Videogames in the late 90s. I do not have any doubts whatsoever that there is more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenKoopa | 15 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Really thankful this video came to light, which has saved from from HA dealings. I was a little suspicious of HA sale prices and thankfully never bought into their false hype. A couple of years back, I was looking at buying an original Garfield comic for the nostalgia. The creator of Garfield, Jim Davis, was selling off his original work when it was being hand drawn, from the 70s to 2000s. He had recently stopped selling it on his website and instead move to heritage auctions. These comic strips were selling for $1000 to $2000. To put this is in perspective, you can buy an original marvel comic cover artwork drawing usually in the $1500 to $7000 range, some for much more. Non-covers for less. Marvel and DC comic are in the mainstream, courtesy of Big Bang Theory and the Hollywood movie being pumped up. But Garfield comics? According to the article below the average Garfield artwork was estimated to be worth $500, and even that would be an exaggeration in my opinion... unless I'm underestimating the Garfield love out there! https://news.justcollecting.com/jim-davis-original-garfield-artwork-archive-heritage-auctions/ Ps. I haven't looked at prices recently on HA, so maybe early sales went for more due to initial demand. HA have a price history section, but I can't be bothered making an account to verify my suspicions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 15 hours ago, phart010 said: If you have issues, why don’t you ask him some questions? To be fair I did ask him multiple questions, and tagged him, but was ignored. Which, is fine, that's his right, but asking him questions may not get you anywhere. Still wouldn't resort to name calling though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup | 2,407 Administrator · Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I get people are still upset about the NA transition and all that, and hey, some legitimate complaints there. However, I actually do think it's a bit unfair to lump him in (in terms of equal perception) with all the other individuals highlighted in the video. Personally, I think his name and likeness was used mainly just to promote the legitimacy and experience of WATA - and if anything, I think the company used this longer than was appropriate, whether intentional or not. Regardless of earlier timelines and his potential involvement, I've not seen any real indication that he was meaningfully involved with WATA or Heritage, especially as it pertains to the allegations of manipulation. I actually would be curious to get his thoughts on everything, like the questions Cody asked for example, but I also understand someone just wanting to get away from all this nonsense and not dig in deeper. Also, of all the allegations discussed, the biggest crime of all, is clearly the case design for N64 titles as @Gloves pointed out. I mean, that is just dastardly! In seriousness though, I do think that was a really strange choice and makes no sense to me personally as how one would display it. Oh well, haha 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now