Heritage Auctions Thread

[Gloves | 11,815]

3 minutes ago, AdamW said:

I'd take that bet, except I don't see any plausible way to settle it...

Gather em all up!

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,164]

1 minute ago, AdamW said:

I'd take that bet, except I don't see any plausible way to settle it...

This is VGA pop report data from several years ago for Mario 64:

Super Mario 64 (1996): U95+(1), U95(2), 95(4), U90(3), 90+(4), 90(16), 85+(18), 85(19), 80+(11), 80(4), 75+(4), 75(1)

I’m going to say that all the 90+ and above are equivalent to 9.8 A++ and I’ll be generous and say half of the 90s will cross to equivalent. that’s 22 right there. This data is several years old. Given the explosion in popularity since, I don’t think it’s crazy to think that these numbers have doubled since. I’ll be generous yet again and just say 1.5X. Now we are up to 33. Toss in the 2 actual Wata 9.8 A++ and we are at 35. You honestly don’t think that there’s at LEAST 15 9.8 A++ equivalents that are raw or in cases? Not every sealed collector is a social media whore or cares about grading. The more I type this out, the more I’m convincing myself that 50 is actually on the low end. 

[Jeevan | 8,921]

6 minutes ago, AdamW said:

I'd take that bet, except I don't see any plausible way to settle it...

Pop Reports!!

[Archangel3090 | 26]

Alright I edited my post, I suppose sinking to insults is uncalled for. I am still disgusted with what happened with NA.. even more so now that it is linked to this shocking amount of fraud.

Looking forward to answers, everyone seems to be in damage control. Hopefully the useless media can summon up some small amount of quality work on this.

[inasuma | 1,203]

36 minutes ago, WalterWhiteJr. said:

Conceivably an 85+ or 90 could cross to 9.8 A++. I’d be willing to bet money that there are AT LEAST 50 9.8 A++ equivalent Mario 64s in existence. 

@jonebonewrote that dope crossover guide which confirms that possibility. Pretty crazy.

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,164]

2 minutes ago, inasuma said:

@jonebonewrote that dope crossover guide which confirms that possibility. Pretty crazy.

Yeah it was very well done. 

[phart010 | 1,708]

59 minutes ago, WalterWhiteJr. said:

This is VGA pop report data from several years ago for Mario 64:

Super Mario 64 (1996): U95+(1), U95(2), 95(4), U90(3), 90+(4), 90(16), 85+(18), 85(19), 80+(11), 80(4), 75+(4), 75(1)

I’m going to say that all the 90+ and above are equivalent to 9.8 A++ and I’ll be generous and say half of the 90s will cross to equivalent. that’s 22 right there. This data is several years old. Given the explosion in popularity since, I don’t think it’s crazy to think that these numbers have doubled since. I’ll be generous yet again and just say 1.5X. Now we are up to 33. Toss in the 2 actual Wata 9.8 A++ and we are at 35. You honestly don’t think that there’s at LEAST 15 9.8 A++ equivalents that are raw or in cases? Not every sealed collector is a social media whore or cares about grading. The more I type this out, the more I’m convincing myself that 50 is actually on the low end. 

While I don’t disagree that there’s probably an abundance of high grade Mario 64’s, there is an inherent problem with population reports.
 

If someone cracks a slab open and resubmits it, the grading authority knows no better. They will log that submission as another sample in the population, when in fact it’s not an additional sample. This can skew population numbers to look greater than they actually are.

How many VGA graded games were cracked open and regraded as WATA? Those will all show up on reports as double counts. And that is not mentioning games that someone cracked open and resubmitted multiple times to try and get the subjective grading process to assign a higher grade..

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by phart010

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,164]

13 minutes ago, phart010 said:

While I don’t disagree that there’s probably an abundance of high grade Mario 64’s, there is an inherent problem with population reports.
 

If some cracks a slab open and resubmits it, the grading authority knows no better. They will log that submission as another sample in the population, when in fact it’s not an additional sample. This can skew population numbers to look greater than they actually are.

How many VGA graded games were cracked open and regraded as WATA? Those will all show up on reports as double counts. And that is not mentioning games that someone cracked open and resubmitted multiple times to try and get the subjective grading process to assign a higher grade..

 

I agree that there is no exact science. 

[Driftwood | 209]

37 minutes ago, phart010 said:

While I don’t disagree that there’s probably an abundance of high grade Mario 64’s, there is an inherent problem with population reports.
 

If someone cracks a slab open and resubmits it, the grading authority knows no better. They will log that submission as another sample in the population, when in fact it’s not an additional sample. This can skew population numbers to look greater than they actually are.

How many VGA graded games were cracked open and regraded as WATA? Those will all show up on reports as double counts. And that is not mentioning games that someone cracked open and resubmitted multiple times to try and get the subjective grading process to assign a higher grade..

 

I personally Have removed and discarded many vga and wata cases from gameboy games 

[tidaldreams | 654]

So who got stuff from the comic connect auction? There were some real cheapos... now i'm pretty excited for that goldin auction

[Gloves | 11,815]

19 minutes ago, tidaldreams said:

So who got stuff from the comic connect auction? There were some real cheapos... now i'm pretty excited for that goldin auction

The only thing in that auction that might have interested me would have been Majora's Mask, but I still can't stand Wata's vertical case on horizontal boxed games. I stand by what I've always said - piss poor decision.

LOOK AT THIS!

Who the hell wants to display their games like this? NOBODY. ZERO people and you CAN'T convince me otherwise.

The ONLY reason to have a game looking like this is because "It's Wata so it's worth money". They even HAVE (had!?!?) a horizontal case for these, but nobody gets em cuz they look different; I can't even find a photo for reference but I swear they exist, rarer than the games they're holding!

UGH!

[karljobst | 242]

@AdamWI know you were hung up the fraud aspect so let me give you some more concrete info.

https://www.watagames.com/learn/blog/post/the-carolina-collection/ Here Wata endorses and promotes the sale of the Carolina Collection. This counts as an endorsement of a product as per FTC guideliness. The FTC has rules in relation to misleading advertisements, and there is a specific statute that is relevant here.

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-releases/ftc-publishes-final-guides-governing-endorsements-testimonials/091005revisedendorsementguides.pdf Statute 255.5 Disclosure of material connections. When there exists a connection between the endorser (Wata) and the seller (Jeff Meyer) of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience), such connection must be fully disclosed.

The connection is that Jeff Meyer is a Director of Wata games. So not only did Jeff grade his entire collection, and flip it through Heritage auctions as a Director (this needs to be investigated), but also used Wata to advertise his collection without disclosing the relationship which broke FTC guidelines in relation to a misleading endorsement. 

I believe as soon as the FTC investigates this (which they will), Wata will be facing a fine here.

Edited August 29, 2021 by karljobst

[FireHazard51 | 2,047]

Rudy is a closet sealed NES collector!  Watch towards the end when he mentions what he has and pulls out some ungraded sealed games.  And this dude IS an investor of playing cards and his take of NES sealed stuff was VERY interesting.

[BriGuy82 | 784]

57 minutes ago, karljobst said:

@AdamWI know you were hung up the fraud aspect so let me give you some more concrete info.

https://www.watagames.com/learn/blog/post/the-carolina-collection/ Here Wata endorses and promotes the sale of the Carolina Collection. This counts as an endorsement of a product as per FTC guideliness. The FTC has rules in relation to misleading advertisements, and there is a specific statute that is relevant here.

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-releases/ftc-publishes-final-guides-governing-endorsements-testimonials/091005revisedendorsementguides.pdf Statute 255.5 Disclosure of material connections. When there exists a connection between the endorser (Wata) and the seller (Jeff Meyer) of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience), such connection must be fully disclosed.

The connection is that Jeff Meyer is a Director of Wata games. So not only did Jeff grade his entire collection, and flip it through Heritage auctions as a Director (this needs to be investigated), but also used Wata to advertise his collection without disclosing the relationship which broke FTC guidelines in relation to a misleading endorsement. 

I believe as soon as the FTC investigates this (which they will), Wata will be facing a fine here.

It's a shame that end of the day, if all they end up with is a slap on the wrist fine it was probably still worth it for them. Halperin already went through that drill with the coin grading company. He paid his fine, and still became rich. It's good to expose these guys for the crooks that they are though. But ultimately, I feel as though the reward for them will outweigh the penalties they incur. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by BriGuy82

[Archangel3090 | 26]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

The only thing in that auction that might have interested me would have been Majora's Mask, but I still can't stand Wata's vertical case on horizontal boxed games. I stand by what I've always said - piss poor decision.

LOOK AT THIS!

Who the hell wants to display their games like this? NOBODY. ZERO people and you CAN'T convince me otherwise.

The ONLY reason to have a game looking like this is because "It's Wata so it's worth money". They even HAVE (had!?!?) a horizontal case for these, but nobody gets em cuz they look different; I can't even find a photo for reference but I swear they exist, rarer than the games they're holding!

UGH!

I wouldn't sweat it. I see them going out of business, at least they should. Either way every collector I know personally is now going VGA anyway

[karljobst | 242]

3 minutes ago, BriGuy82 said:

It's a shame that end of the day, if all they end up with is a slap on the wrist fine it was probably still worth it for them. Halperin already went through that drill with the coin grading company. He paid his fine, and still became rich. It's good to expose these guys for the crooks that they are though. But ultimately, I feel as though the reward for them will outweigh the penalties they incur. 

Actually, NCI (Halperin's grading company) was basically destroyed. If the FTC comes down on Wata it will do major damage to them in the broader market. Especially from investors who bought Wata graded games who may have grounds to sue.

Edited August 30, 2021 by karljobst

[PuppyWaffles | 1,853]

2 minutes ago, Archangel3090 said:

I wouldn't sweat it. I see them going out of business, at least they should. Either way every collector I know personally is now going VGA anyway

Why wouldn't you? When Wata's motto was "We Grade Everything" I knew it was a cash grab, especially when they started grading the Mario Amiibo Cereal boxes...

[Gloves | 11,815]

Just now, PuppyWaffles said:

Why wouldn't you? When Wata's motto was "We Grade Everything" I knew it was a cash grab, especially when they started grading the Mario Amiibo Cereal boxes...

How bout that time they couldn't grade that Fishy Face Jojo's Bizarre Adventure cuz it was a few millimeters off regular SNES boxes, and damaged the seal in the process?

"Everything" that fits in their specific cases.

[PuppyWaffles | 1,853]

4 minutes ago, Gloves said:

How bout that time they couldn't grade that Fishy Face Jojo's Bizarre Adventure cuz it was a few millimeters off regular SNES boxes, and damaged the seal in the process?

"Everything" that fits in their specific cases.

Unless you want to pay for a custom case, at least that's what I've heard...

[Gloves | 11,815]

1 minute ago, PuppyWaffles said:

Unless you want to pay for a custom case, at least that's what I've heard...

[final fight cd | 187]

this thread is out of control.  I see dain getting some flack, people are switching back to VGA.  It's a lot to comb through all the pages. 

anybody care to give a couple sentence summary of all the highlights?

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

4 minutes ago, final fight cd said:

this thread is out of control.  I see dain getting some flack, people are switching back to VGA.  It's a lot to comb through all the pages. 

anybody care to give a couple sentence summary of all the highlights?

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

But seriously, there's way more than a few sentences.   Short short version-

• Video has come out showing potential shenanigans
• Dain's name popped up in said video, so he came here to answer questions
• Karl (video creator) has also come here to ask and answer questions
• Lots of back and forth between old time NA'ers about every subject under the sun

 

[Gloves | 11,815]

19 minutes ago, Archangel3090 said:

I wouldn't sweat it. I see them going out of business, at least they should. Either way every collector I know personally is now going VGA anyway

What sucks is that overall I LIKE the designs otherwise! They have nice looking cases! 

But the cases in this instance (any horizontal style box) are just sort of ignoring the context of what they contain! It's egregious! I've considered getting games VGA graded in the past but the cases look ugly. I saw Wata when they originally announced it and I was like "Oh nice! Looks sweet!". 

I'm gonna end up just getting some regular ol' acrylic cases without grading my games. I wanna still be able to whip em out to play em anyway, but for the maybe 10 sealed games I'll ever own, grading them would have been cool, back when it was a hobbyist thing. Now it's gonna cost me an arm and a leg and my first born child, AND I have to pay insurance based on a propped up market? Nah, dawg. Ain't for me no mo.

[BriGuy82 | 784]

6 minutes ago, karljobst said:

Actually, NCI (Halperin's grading company) was basically destroyed. If the FTC comes down on Wata is will do major damage to them in the broader market. Especially from investors who bought Wata graded games who may have grounds to sue.

Well whatever happens, thanks for digging and fighting the good fight. Some people here felt that watas plan all along was to do whatever it took to grow the company as quickly as possible and sell it. So with it being sold I just wonder how much accountability the original owners will have in regards to any penalty.