Heritage Auctions Thread

[fcgamer | 4,729]

7 minutes ago, Dain said:

If you're meaning the name, Cringe. It should've been the NintendoAge collection.

The GoCollect Collection or Dastardly Dain and Jumping Jack Jeff's Collection would have been better.

[OptOut | 8,889]

PAGE TOP ONE HUNDO!!! This is for you @Aristophanes!!! 

 

 

Lets keep the party pumping people!!! 

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

6 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Disagree. Mario 3 was mass-produced, huge selling game, and back in the day even grocery stores and drug stores had video games.

The Micro Genius game, Creatom, for Famicom - how many sealed copies do you think are known to exist? Or Super A'Can games, how many sealed copies?

These items had much, much smaller quantities manufactured, and were much less popular to stock - yet I know XYZ amount to exist sealed. If XYZ quantity of these have been found sealed, something like a f'cking first print Mario 3 is going to be easily many more copies out there, sealed. 

Later prints, definitely. The early “Left Bros” there will be surprisingly few, unless some Nintendo warehouse is unearthed some day. I think VGA pop numbers from a few years ago were like 8-10? A few more have surfaced, but nothing crazy.

Edited August 27, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[OptOut | 8,889]

Oh goddamn it DAVE!

You stole my page top!

Is there anything else left for you to take from me? 

[ICrappedMyPants | 302]

8 minutes ago, kell said:

Biggest revelation from this whole discussion... I'm not the only one that has a detailed spreadsheet.  Who else has a spreadsheet (aka workbook @Californication)...?!?!? Come on CPA, you have to have one!

Damn. Thought I was special.

I’m sure there are a lot of people with them, especially people who sell lots of games. I know I’m not going to pay taxes on the sale price of a game. You have to track and establish your basis in case of an audit. I guess you could be like Peter La Fleur.

[phart010 | 1,707]

7 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

 

The Micro Genius game, Creatom, for Famicom - how many sealed copies do you think are known to exist? Or Super A'Can games, how many sealed copies?

Did Famicom games get sealed?

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

I only read this page but I think I have an idea of some of the questions people are asking. I didn't see these answered yet so I can offer this, even if I'm misunderstanding the conversation here.

- that photo isn't fake, it's a sealed case of Stadium Events, it's actually 1 of 3 he used to have

- the other 2 cases were sold individually with an accompanied NDA

- none were sold directly to Rare Bucky, Tim hates that guy

[fcgamer | 4,729]

6 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Later prints, definitely. The early “Left Bros” there will be surprisingly few, unless some Nintendo warehouse is unearthed some day. I think VGA pop numbers from a few years ago were like 8-10? A few more have surfaced, but nothing crazy.

Strongly disagree.

It's all about where the initial pieces were sold.

Edit: btw, Creatom was a 91 release, never had a reprint.

Edited August 27, 2021 by fcgamer

[fcgamer | 4,729]

6 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Oh goddamn it DAVE!

You stole my page top!

Is there anything else left for you to take from me? 

Well I could think of a few things, actually.

[AdamW | 713]

7 minutes ago, SealedWholesale said:

i'm not doubting it was awful to try to get progress done when money is the 1st idea on the table but you can see how a website/sale/takedown with you 'retiring' and going to 'advise' a grading company looks like you quitting, selling all conflicting assets, and starting a grading company

 

how that would look to your business contacts you used to do commerce with  saying you joined and 'sit' during a funding email

 

Really, though, it doesn't look like that. Being an adviser to a company is nothing like being a founder or an executive or director or even an employee. It means they might send you a mail occasionally and ask your opinion on something. You're not employed by them, you have no contractual relationship. It's a very loose 'relationship'.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

K

5 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Did Famicom games get sealed?

Not licensed games ,no, but this particular unlicensed original did, likely because it came in a box the size of a PC big box game, and had tons of extra goodies included.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

2 minutes ago, AdamW said:

Being an adviser to a company is nothing like being a founder or an executive or director or even an employee.

What is your opinion on if you are advising a company, but not a part of it, but they are using your name in emails anyway to get other people interested?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

12 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Lets keep the party pumping

Ole Halp and the gang will, I'm sure.

[spacepup | 2,405]

This is sort of a side conversation, that isn't so much about the allegations and drama, but something I thought worth mentioning because it highlights a very philosophical difference of opinion between different members of our community, and perhaps, where a lot of rub and disagreement stems from (in general, and over the last couple years).

In the e-mail that SealedWholesale shared, Deniz says (allegedly):

-----
As collectors first, with backgrounds in other matured collectibles markets yet specializing in video games, we are addressing the fundamental flaws that have been circumvented in the video game market that prevent it from growing to its potential and that hinder involvement from key players and investors in ancillary markets. We set out on this venture over one year ago because we believe this is what the industry needs to move forward. There are many sellers of video games (and only a handful of your caliber!). But without objective, quality, trusted, and meaningful standards, the market will continue to be limited in its growth by a lack of confidence.
-----

Read the above carefully.  It just highlights something that I thought about even in the early days of discussion around WATA.  One of the selling points for WATA, in a pitch to me, was that it was going to help, and I quote, "legitimize the video game collecting hobby."  

I paused for a moment, thinking....I don't believe I personally have an interest in seeing it more "legitimized" because what this person meant by that comment was, more attractive and more lucrative as investments and collectibles which would attain future status and higher value.  And to me personally, that was not really my goal or why I was collecting at the time.

Obviously people collect for different reasons, and I can't say that one is right or wrong in their goals, but it highlighted for me a very significant difference of opinion regarding the direction of video game collectibles.  It was clear to me that, some people viewed video game collectibles as 'undervalued investments' with much potential for future "growth."  GROWTH, in this case, is not really the kind of growth that I was personally after.

So whether anyone wants to call it manipulation, inorganic, or whatever else, it highlighted for me that at least a few years ago, several individuals saw an opportunity to take action to "correct" this problem, and to 'grow' and 'legitimize' video game collectibles.  And they took such actions, starting a spiral that leads us to today.  

I won't get into much of the arguing and nonsense in this particular post, but it is just something I have been thinking about for a while now, and wanted to share.

At the end of the day, I haven't given up hope and I am trying to make the best of things wherever I can.

 

 

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

12 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Oh goddamn it DAVE!

You stole my page top!

Is there anything else left for you to take from me? 

 

[karljobst | 242]

24 minutes ago, AdamW said:

Hi Karl, good on you for showing up and taking questions. I posted a rather long 'review' of the video forever ago (yesterday afternoon) where I mentioned a few small inaccuracies, it'd be great if you could look at that and see what you think, back on page 83:

overall, as I wrote, I think you did a really solid job of putting together a lot of info and it's clearly been useful to a lot of folks who didn't know about it already, so thanks for that.

My only other note would be, as someone else said last night, to be careful about hitching yourself to Seth's wagon. I always vaguely thought of him as a reputable journalist till he showed up in this neck of the woods, but the way he's acted with his stuff on games seems a little, uh, off the hook to me.

My interests, since you're not gonna find them in this threadpocalypse: I only showed up in games at the start of this year. I don't know and have never spoken to any of the people mentioned in your video (except Greg from getthegreggames who is Maertens29 here, he's cool, you should have told people to subscribe to him ). I don't own any graded games, I've never had a game graded, I've never sold a graded or sealed game, I own maybe five sealed games that would be worth any notable money, none of them over $2500 at most. If they all were worth a penny tomorrow it would not affect me significantly at all (they're less than 1% of my total assets).

That post is too long for me to go through and try to work out what you want me to comment on, but I will answer any questions if you want to distil them for me. I don't hitch myself to any wagon, I use people to attain information and then I use that information to make a decision based on that alone. 

I only really make claims about things I can show, I've been told a lot of stories, far worse than what I described in the video. But I didn't talk about them because I can't back any of it up (yet).

[AdamW | 713]

2 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

What is your opinion on if you are advising a company, but not a part of it, but they are using your name in emails anyway to get other people interested?

I dunno. Depends a lot on the details. Still seems like kind of a nothingburger to me, honestly. As Dain said, he was giving WATA advice in areas he was knowledgeable about as a favour to Deniz, with whom he was friends. Doing that and then selling his collection to Jeff doesn't really seem especially noteworthy to me, personally.

[Tanooki | 4,936]

Growth?  Growth?!  That mailer pasted there by the pup ...yeah.  Their idea of growth is not where things should have gone, ever.  The kind of growth they wanted to foster from day one usually end up commonly being treated with chemo, and typically some fairly known set of days left with the back end trying to find some form of quality of life left to live.  That's where it is now.

[zoiks66 | 72]

It’s happening!  Metal Jesus made a video of little substance about it!  Wooooooooooo!

 

[OptOut | 8,889]

1 minute ago, zoiks66 said:

It’s happening!  Metal Jesus made a video of little substance about it!  Wooooooooooo!

 

Wow, do people still watch Metal Jesus, lol!

He's looking more and more like the Dude from the Big Lebowski with each passing year, lol! 

[AdamW | 713]

1 minute ago, karljobst said:

That post is too long for me to go through and try to work out what you want me to comment on, but I will answer any questions if you want to distil them for me. I don't hitch myself to any wagon, I use people to attain information and then I use that information to make a decision based on that alone. 

I only really make claims about things I can show, I've been told a lot of stories, far worse than what I described in the video. But I didn't talk about them because I can't back any of it up (yet).

Fair enough, let me distil out the key bits:

1. I think - I might be wrong on this - that WATA has clarified that the 2% charge on high value items is capped at a $100,000 value (so a $2,000 charge). If so, that part of the video could be clarified, as it says the charge on a $1m game would be $20,000. I don't fault you for this (if it's correct) as WATA's site does not explain this.

2. In the bit on the Carolina Collection, you quoted a blog post Jeff wrote in May 2020 and suggested he was a director at that date (that's how the video 'reads' to me, anyway). But - again as I 'read' it - your evidence for that claim was only the SEC filings, and those only show that he was a director up to 2018. Jeff has since claimed that he left WATA in January 2020, which would make that claim incorrect. I also thought you didn't quite substantiate the claim that the Carolina Collection thing rose to the level of "fraud", and that was the only concrete instance of "fraud" related to video games that you cited in the video, so personally I think putting FRAUD in all-caps in the title was unwarranted.

3. In the video I think you referred to Halperin and Ivy as being "found guilty" in the coin grading scandal. I don't think that's a correct description in technical legal terms (again, IMBW). I believe they agreed to settle a (I think non-criminal) case - that's not the same thing as being "found guilty".

4. Around 44:30 you cited an apparently unfounded rumour that Halperin funded WATA, which to me was sloppy practice; I'd prefer if you either included more solid evidence, or left it out. It seems Kotaku has since got a statement to the effect that Halperin was a minority shareholder of WATA from its founding up until the CU sale, so I guess you could just use that, now, as it seems to be an agreed fact.

5. I don't think you substantiated the claim that the high-end sealed market was affecting the lower ends of the market very well. High priced listings of SM64 carts are not evidence; people can list stuff at high prices all day long, the question is whether it sells, and those listings haven't been selling. Best as I can see, the highest price sold SM64 cart on ebay is 60 bucks. You didn't acknowledge that prices for almost every asset class in the world have gone up significantly since the pandemic.

6. Finally, I thought you failed to question the role of journalists when bringing up various articles that described the dentist as an "avid collector" or uncritically quoted Deniz and Jim. Surely their role could do with a bit of questioning there?

Thanks a lot!

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

19 minutes ago, karljobst said:

That post is too long for me to go through and try to work out what you want me to comment on, but I will answer any questions if you want to distil them for me. I don't hitch myself to any wagon, I use people to attain information and then I use that information to make a decision based on that alone. 

I only really make claims about things I can show, I've been told a lot of stories, far worse than what I described in the video. But I didn't talk about them because I can't back any of it up (yet).

what's the test for 'backing any of it up' bc in the history of scams they rely on the grey you cant back up and verbal conversations. nearly everybody wanted me to talk on the phone once any real negotiating started.  so if you are dealing with a real buyer they dont do stuff like that

Edited August 27, 2021 by SealedWholesale

[fcgamer | 4,729]

For me, the Digital Press guide including NES games legitimised the hobby, back in 200X, lol. It was also when the first debate over whether Sachens were part of a full set occurred.

The Wata bollocks is just that, and I recognised Deniz as a snake at first sight, lol.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

1 hour ago, Tulpa said:

Man, Dain, Ozzy ... we just need Pat and Mike Etler to start posting again.

 

41 minutes ago, 8bitsupremacy said:

Someone get Tim Atwood to post.

 

While we're at it, let's bring back Stan and Portnoyd.  And maybe someone can dig up Hounder while we're at it...I'd still love an answer from him about why he screwed me and so many others over. 

[osg | 52]

22 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Obviously people collect for different reasons, and I can't say that one is right or wrong in their goals, but it highlighted for me a very significant difference of opinion regarding the direction of video game collectibles.  It was clear to me that, some people viewed video game collectibles as 'undervalued investments' with much potential for future "growth."  GROWTH, in this case, is not really the kind of growth that I was personally after.

So whether anyone wants to call it manipulation, inorganic, or whatever else, it highlighted for me that at least a few years ago, several individuals saw an opportunity to take action to "correct" this problem, and to 'grow' and 'legitimize' video game collectibles.  And they took such actions, starting a spiral that leads us to today.

Yo for real this is exactly how I've felt about the overall NES collecting scene for like 20 years. Then again, as a working class schmuck, I've spent almost my whole life completely priced out. So maybe I'm just jaded. Or a jerk. Or both.