Console Debate #28 Sega Saturn

[fox | 1,665]

@LastCat

[LastCat | 246]

Best console, many shmups, many fighters and 10 player Bomberman.  

[DefaultGen | 5,400]

Love Saturn, but it’s a 4/10 no-Sonic-having console. It’s basically N64. A bunch of top end Sega games, 90% of a library everyone pretends doesn’t exist, and 3D everyone universally agrees looks like garbage. N64’s elite top few are all 10/10 generation defining bangers and Saturn’s just aren’t, so in fairness to N64 (for @OptOut’s sake) I can’t rate Saturn higher.

I’m not mega deep on imports but basically every import I have is a shooter arcade port. While it’s awesome it has lots of good shooter arcade ports, I have trouble considering ports cornerstones of a library. PC-Engine is a great shooter console because it has tons of PC-Engine shooters. I wouldn’t give Xbox props for having 100 good versions of the Namco Museum games. Because the precession of ports always marches on, I think Saturn might technically be the worst way to play games like Radiant Silvergun, Battle Garegga, and DoDonPachi as awesome as those games are. I mean it’s not a BAD thing to have mostly good ports of amazing games in a couple genres but it isn’t lifting the console to a 9/10 for me.

[Brickman | 3,983]

I went with a 9. If you just counted the US/PAL games then probably a high 7 but I grade these consoles with the whole library in mind and the Japanese side of things is awesome. Soooo many SHMUPs and some close to arcade quality fighters. I also love collecting for this system. The US cases are rubbish but I like the Japanese small CD cases.

[OptOut | 8,881]

They are all broken, every single one.

[Sumez | 2,933]

30 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

N64’s elite top few are all 10/10 generation defining bangers and Saturn’s just aren’t

The problem is the saturn's 10/10 bangers are all arcade ports (outside of like three or four notable exclusives). Very good arcade ports, and extremely noteworthy at the time, definitely made the Saturn one to get for anyone into real video games, that don't run at an abysmal framerate either.
And there's no small supply of them either, the console was a real powerhouse for this stuff.

As time has passed though, these ports have gotten less and less relevant for obvious reasons, while unique exclusive titles on the platform are in kinda short supply. And hell, some of the ports (on a flimsy rot-infested disc format, at that) are much more expensive than the original solid-state arcade versions at this point, it's kinda ridiculous.

My Saturn got a ton of love until some point between 2005 and 2010 after which it's barely seen any use. I do occasionally pull out my ST-V board though, because cartridge based Saturn games is kinda awesome, and Dynamite Deka, Decathlete, Radiant Silvergun and Cotton 2 all kick ass.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Sumez

[AstralSoul | 502]

If I were to rate this console based on availability and cost to collect it would be about a 2/10. But I don't take cost into account when rating. With Japanese and American games included I went with an 8/10. Why? Well here we go.

I never owned a Sega console growing up. I always wanted a Genesis and a Dreamcast but always assumed Saturn was garbage because no one I knew had it and the only game that remotely interested me back then was Nights Into Dreams. That was the mid-90s. Fast forward about 15 years. Collecting is now a thing I do. On top of collecting for systems I already own, my head turns towards systems I never got to play. I finally got a Genesis, and eventually a Dreamcast as well, but wasn't until about 2 years that I started looking heavily into the Saturn. Up until that point I never even seen one in person let alone played one. I eventually got to play Nights Into Dreams when they rereleased it on PS3 and I loved it. But I went through the whole library watching videos, reading about it, emulating a few games, and really took an interest in a console that I ignored for 25 years. I finally got one last year and I loved it. I got to play a dozen or so games for it, and eventually sold it (sadly) only because I came to terms that collecting for this console is way out of my price range. But I genuinely loved my time with it. I wish I had one growing up or at least got into it sooner before the prices exploded. $1000+ for Panzer Dragoon Saga is just ludicrous. But despite not having any real system sellers, the console is a hidden gem in my opinion and for those willing to dig deeper than the surface of the library will find some real enjoyment. I can't say I'd put it exactly in the same tier as either Genesis nor Dreamcast (both which I believe I gave 9/10) the Saturn is only one notch below those in my opinion. 8/10.

[Vectrex28 | 366]

1/10. Better off smashed - I heard there was a homebrew that lets you do that

(Memes aside I'd give it a 6 prolly)

[Tanooki | 4,930]

Having been a Saturn owner for 5 years (a loss of the big selloff in 2005) I had a pretty decent sized library of US titles, but I also was happy to own a Pro Action Replay 4M plus and some good fanboy spooged over import games from Japan so I did have some variety to look at it.

It pains me to do it some, but I gave it a 6.  It's a good one, but it's not great, let alone excellent or earth shattering great(10) and also not as shattering of a turd either (4 and under range.)

 

The thing is the hardware was garbage, very badly done and how it behaved when doing non-2D work, had all sorts of problems. The tool that thought hey who needs triangles when we can use quads should have been sacked, and right along with the other who decided to fix it -- just add more chips, and make that coding language a nightmare of legend.  The 3D was poor, not Jag bad by any means, but still, and worse it loved to tear, wobble, and warp and twist at screens edge.  You couldn't port games from PS1, N64 or PC at all, without basically redoing much from scratch at good cost(hey WiiU  you suck too for this with similar outcomes.)  The system crippled itself from success.

But in the end, games move a system, and well...it did, for a bit, but since SOA was like NEC USA...who needs to release some of the best stuff out of Japan right?  Yeah if it's not a stellar arcade port, we don't need this crap...pfft.  Like NEC (and Konami) you get this amazing Castlevania game, in Japan, with no import.  And the list goes on where solid games from Sega (or NEC for PCE) came out at the home market, but mysteriously skipped here, and third parties followed suit.  Sega did nicely, but not great and got snuffed out in the US space, but at home it clung on for awhile with some amazing stuff, in particular 2D amazingness such as what Capcom did basically mocking the PS1 in ported titles.

So in the end, it's a good system, but too many failings to raise or lower the bar from being, just slightly better than mediocre.  It's exactly why I never got another to replace it, it would take considerable work, and the STUPID prices even before virus abuse made it repulsive to bother with.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

Voted 8, should have voted 9.

The Saturn is host to the quintessential arcade experience of the mid 90s. Virtua Fighter 2 is one of my absolute favorites and I kept renting the console out with VF2, Panzer Dragoon 2 and Guardian Heroes.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

I'm not sure since I haven't played enough of the library.  Probably a 7 or so.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

5 hours ago, Vectrex28 said:

1/10. Better off smashed - I heard there was a homebrew that lets you do that

(Memes aside I'd give it a 6 prolly)

@OptOut has found his life partner

[TDIRunner | 2,727]

Probably a 6 for me.  For me, it's the least played out of all of the Sega home consoles, and I own all of them.  It had potential.  The cart slot used for storage and memory was an interesting feature, and the controller was super comfortable.  If the industry had continued with 2D gaming for one more generation, it probably would have done well.  Lots of fun 2D games to play, so I still recommend trying it out, but it's not a console I recommend collecting for.  If you can find a working console, there are lots of good ways to play games for free without having to buy original discs.  I used to have two working consoles, but I lost one of them to the only bad trade I ever made back at NA (the guy took my Saturn, but didn't send everything we were supposed to trade for).  

[OptOut | 8,881]

5 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

@OptOut has found his life partner

Most assuredly, I have!

@Jeevan 

[Webhead123 | 675]

Saturn is a console I've never once gotten to play but that I would very much like to. There was a brief window about 10 years ago where I almost started to go down that rabbit hole. But with today's Saturn prices, I honestly don't see myself ever really getting the chance to explore this one much.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

I bought one when it launched. The first party games were great and I really enjoyed the selection of fighting games. 8/10.

[AstralSoul | 502]

This topic is making me want to buy another Saturn again lol. But I know I'll see the prices of the games and immediately regret it.

[LastCat | 246]

12 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

Love Saturn, but it’s a 4/10 no-Sonic-having console. It’s basically N64. A bunch of top end Sega games, 90% of a library everyone pretends doesn’t exist, and 3D everyone universally agrees looks like garbage. N64’s elite top few are all 10/10 generation defining bangers and Saturn’s just aren’t, so in fairness to N64 (for @OptOut’s sake) I can’t rate Saturn higher.

I honestly wouldn't say it's an N64 tier console, Saturn sure struggles on 3D but there's def no shortage of good games on the platform,

[Kguillemette | 1,543]

Never played, but interested. There are quite a few games on that system I would like to play.

[Brickman | 3,983]

8 hours ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

Voted 8, should have voted 9.

The Saturn is host to the quintessential arcade experience of the mid 90s. Virtua Fighter 2 is one of my absolute favorites and I kept renting the console out with VF2, Panzer Dragoon 2 and Guardian Heroes.

Yeah I think this is what will be the variance in scores for this console. If you love arcade fighters and SHMUPs with a few RPGs/puzzle games thrown in, then this is the console for you. If not, then it probably seems average. Also the Japanese library is a must.

I forgot to mention that it also has the best arcade sticks for a home console and they were first party:

[Robot_Ninjutsu | 122]

I bought one used in 2003 with the intention of playing Imports.

Can I gush over how awesome this system is playing arcade ports? Yes.

Do I find the US library to be weak and full of mostly crap? Yes.

I still give it a 9 because, playing "Space Harrier" and "After Burner" with a Mission Stick is magical.

[GPX | 1,369]

I think this console was/is one misunderstood hardware. Until you’re willing to give it a fair crack, then you’re unlikely to appreciate it as a console platform. 

If you’ve only tried the console with the US/Pal libraries, there are some fantastic gems to be had in the Panzer Dragoon series, Guardian Heroes, Keio 2, Nights and the Sega Arcade conversions. 

Then if you’re willing to try games with the expansion ram cart, the console gets beefed up with improved graphics and speed, which makes th appreciation factor go upwards.

Then if you’re willing to be adventurous, wanting glorious 2D shooting and fighting games, the later games that were Japan exclusives would likely tickle your fancy. I admit that I haven’t played many of these Japanese games but I’ve tried Radiant Silvergun, and seen plenty of YouTube clips to have th urge to try them out sometime in the future.

The downside to this console? Most of the 3D gaming attempts were pretty lame..

A solid 7/10 for me.

[glazball | 168]

Like all the other major US Sega consoles (SMS, Genesis and Dreamcast), the Saturn has a charm of it’s own.  It certainly evokes thoughts of a difficult and messy time for Sega, really their darkest hours (meaning, 32x launch though Dreamcast launch).  I didn’t have one at launch (was in college at the time) but picked one up around 2000, after the system was dead.  So, I have nostalgia for it but not from the correct time period.

I loved the Genesis, but it seemed obvious to me and most of my friends, that the Saturn didn’t have that something that a console needs to have.  Not with late Super Nintendo and N64 on one side and Sony PlayStation on the other.  Most everyone I knew got a PS as their next console.  There just wasn’t enough room for the Saturn, at least not among my circles.  A damn shame really.  I think Sega learned dearly from the mistakes of the Saturn and came back with one of the best game consoles ever, Dreamcast, which I got at launch and still treasure.

It’s really great console and the (US) library is overall better than PS1 if you were average them out, imo.  Shinobi Legions, Panzer Dragoon and Guardian Heroes are all great.  I would have loved to have seen a true Golden Axe, because The Duel is a joke.  But again, with it’s own crappy-fighter charm somehow.  Enjoyed Albert Odyssey as well.  The Saturn controller is responsive and decent enough, and the 3D Pad is comfy too.

I’d probably rate it a 7.5 but had to round up.  The Saturn is exceptional and everyone should play it!

Edited May 15, 2021 by glazball

[DoctorEncore | 3,690]

I never owned a Saturn and have only played a few games at my cousin's house when I was a kid. I'd love to get into it someday. Perhaps when I'm an old man with no responsibilities.

[Estil | 1,261]

So I got one of SAG's special PS1's with the PSIO (their version of the Everdrive) feature and it's worth every penny and then some.  So I was wondering if they'd ever do the same for the Saturn (the game system, not the car) but seriously?  $600!?!?  I mean I guess it's an interesting system and I'm sure it's got a few interesting blue chips but I can't imagine there's nowhere near $600 worth...