Heritage Auctions Thread

[Californication | 1,477]

Just now, chuppy44 said:

FWIW I grew up with NES and SM64 to me was the most significant event in gaming history by a mile. It was like game design evolved 10 years into the future with a single game. There will never be anything like that again. It deserves top spot on the pedestal.

Not that I condone paying over $1mil for a piece of plastic wrap.

I still think the 9.0 Zelda was sillier. At least this was a legitimate mint game.

You could say that about a dozen different games.

[chuppy44 | 56]

Just now, Californication said:

You could say that about a dozen different games.

Everything else from 1996 feels like Battlezone compared to SM64.

[OptOut | 8,889]

1 minute ago, chuppy44 said:

Everything else from 1996 feels like Battlezone compared to SM64.

HEY! 

I like Battlezone... 

[Brickman | 3,993]

24 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

There are still some being floated around, for example that Mario 64 isn’t the greatest game ever. 

That’s the true grocery checkout magazine shelf crazy talk right there

Yeah they're crazy. Mario64 is hands down the best Mario game and I don't care what anyone else says. Not $1.56mil good but hey, not my money.

[Californication | 1,477]

29 minutes ago, chuppy44 said:

Everything else from 1996 feels like Battlezone compared to SM64.

Your main point was that SM64 was the most pivotal game in gaming history. I'm just saying that I have never heard anyone before today speak this highly about SM64. I'd personally take SMB3 over SM64 all day.

And if we are talking about pivotal games it's subjective - off the top of my head there is Demon Souls, Doom, SMB1, SMB3, Super Metroid, Pac Man, Pong, R-Type, Gradius, Zelda LTTP, Shenmue, Halo, GTA, Madden, Call of Duty, Street Fighter 2.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Californication

[AdamW | 713]

4 hours ago, Caliboy24 said:

Someone said money laundering wasn't possible for this sale to happen? It's definitely possible because it happened quite recently where a guy dropped like $9 million to a Heritage Auction by buying comics. Here's the article below 

https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/22/8870089/texas-comic-book-heist-anthony-chiofalo-tadano

Well, that does prove that someone tried, but if you actually read the story, the moral of it more or less works out to be "this was a really really terrible way to try and launder money, and it failed miserably."

[Frost271 | 22]

1 hour ago, ExplodedHamster said:

VGA N64 games below 90+ generally do not cross over well to WATA (many N64 games have manufacturer’s flaws near the opening flap that VGA does not dock but WATA does), so I would not assume too much. A bunch of those probably already have been crossed, as well. In the end, you MIGHT get 10-12 9.8/A++ total. That is far from common in the collectibles world, and anyone describing that as common is not putting it in proper context imo.

I’m sure you won’t believe me, but I got 3 150k plus offers in February on this game from well known collectors within probably 10-15 minutes of posting it on IG. I made it known clearly I wasn’t gonna sell it outside of auction.

Did I envision anything remotely like this at that time? Hell no. But I did get those offers and turn them down.

I do believe uou and thats awesome / crazy.  Monster that you held out.  I do follow you on Instagram. Congrats on the sale. I truly hope you get paid!

Edited July 13, 2021 by Frost271

[Aatos | 35]

3 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

In terms of HA being sued

As I recall, they were sued for it by someone who owed Heritage over half a million dollars from a joint venture gone wrong and the court threw out the guy’s lawsuit because he had no actual evidence. Leaving that information out of the video and letting the “Heritage was sued” hang out there is kinda gross.

Agreed, thanks for clarifying. My sincerest apologies if this at all seemed like peddling conspiracy theories, that was certainly not intended but I’m sincerely excited to understand what’s behind this.

I really really appreciate you taking the time to participate in this discussion and identify yourself as the seller. I too recognize your nick from NA times and in my eyes this greatly increases the legitimacy and my understanding of the sale. I definitely don’t mean that you had any obligation to legitimize it to others in any way, I just really appreciate personally being able to understand it better.

Congratulations for the sale! It is a big thing and like someone said a huge milestone for recognizing the value of video games as cultural icons they are - you should know this sale eg. made the Economy -section of the biggest daily newspaper in Finland yesterday . 

[GPX | 1,370]

6 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Some fun…theories in this thread, but the sale is real and being paid for. How do I know? I am the seller. No, I did not shill it up or have anyone else do so. The Zelda was also mine and is being paid for. I didn’t shill that either. 
 

Given where collectibles are, and have been, for the past 24 months, I don’t think it’s terribly shocking Mario 64 could hit a million, though I admit the Mario still went beyond all expectations hitting 1.5. I thought it COULD be the first million dollar game if two people wanted it enough, but 1.5 was beyond my wildest dreams. 
 

In terms of price, just for perspective, PSA 10 Charizards and Jordan rookies go for between 200k and 300k at the moment. There are I believe 122 PSA 10 Charizards and like 325 PSA 10 Jordans. Right now, there are only a few WATA graded 9.8/A++ Mario 64s and maybe you could hit another 6-8 from VGA crosses if they hit perfectly (WATA is harsher on N64 boxes than VGA). So maybe you could get to 10ish with known commodities? That’s nothing in the world of collectibles. 
 

Mario 64 is also arguably the greatest game ever and hits the nostalgia period perfectly for bitcoin-aged folks and many celebs. 
 

Given timing on the market (where it is in growth) and these factors, I am not surprised it was the one to break the million barrier, though again I did not at all think it was a certainty and I never would have anticipated 1.5. 
 

Happy to answer any questions I can :).

Congrats on the sales! And thanks for sharing these details. This puts things in better perspective.

Though I still have an issue ie. what is causing the current hype go 10 times more within a few months from your alledged offers? I don't think there is anyone of us here can argue that video games aren't the biggest thing in collectibles right now. It's just the jump in values at rapid rates does not feel organic at all. The values are just pumped up at a pattern that is too hard to accept if you're a regular collector/investor/speculator for the past 10 years. Not to mention values of a million dollars is usually reserved for genuine rare items that have been known to be rare for a significant amount of time. A sealed Mario 64 9.8A++ is definitely a nice item, but I don't think it's rarity has been a significant talking point in any of the recent years gone by. No reason whatsoever to think there won't be much more still to be found. Time has not proven yet either way.

 

[Gulag Joe | 584]

9 hours ago, Frost271 said:

You are an idiot. Just reading your comments over the last two days makes me feel like I read stupid.  You new to the hobby?  Most of the guys you been talking ‘idiot to’ have been around since before your balls dropped. Waaay before WATA was even imagined. VGA gave population reports at least up to 2016. 

Who let this guy in here?

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Gulag Joe

[Gulag Joe | 584]

7 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Some fun…theories in this thread, but the sale is real and being paid for. How do I know? I am the seller. No, I did not shill it up or have anyone else do so. The Zelda was also mine and is being paid for. I didn’t shill that either. 
 

Given where collectibles are, and have been, for the past 24 months, I don’t think it’s terribly shocking Mario 64 could hit a million, though I admit the Mario still went beyond all expectations hitting 1.5. I thought it COULD be the first million dollar game if two people wanted it enough, but 1.5 was beyond my wildest dreams. 
 

In terms of price, just for perspective, PSA 10 Charizards and Jordan rookies go for between 200k and 300k at the moment. There are I believe 122 PSA 10 Charizards and like 325 PSA 10 Jordans. Right now, there are only a few WATA graded 9.8/A++ Mario 64s and maybe you could hit another 6-8 from VGA crosses if they hit perfectly (WATA is harsher on N64 boxes than VGA). So maybe you could get to 10ish with known commodities? That’s nothing in the world of collectibles. 
 

Mario 64 is also arguably the greatest game ever and hits the nostalgia period perfectly for bitcoin-aged folks and many celebs. 
 

Given timing on the market (where it is in growth) and these factors, I am not surprised it was the one to break the million barrier, though again I did not at all think it was a certainty and I never would have anticipated 1.5. 
 

Happy to answer any questions I can :).

I agree with your thoughts on the sale. I tried to explain that several times in this thread but the mob wasn't having it. Congrats!

Do you think the impact of this sale will have an effect on 9.8a++ level games? Over the last few auctions there has been a discernible premium separating from the 9.6's. I think this sale will only widen that monetary gap.

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

Congrats on the sales! And thanks for sharing these details. This puts things in better perspective.

Though I still have an issue ie. what is causing the current hype go 10 times more within a few months from your alledged offers? I don't think there is anyone of us here can argue that video games aren't the biggest thing in collectibles right now. It's just the jump in values at rapid rates does not feel organic at all. The values are just pumped up at a pattern that is too hard to accept if you're a regular collector/investor/speculator for the past 10 years. Not to mention values of a million dollars is usually reserved for genuine rare items that have been known to be rare for a significant amount of time. A sealed Mario 64 9.8A++ is definitely a nice item, but I don't think it's rarity has been a significant talking point in any of the recent years gone by. No reason whatsoever to think there won't be much more still to be found. Time has not proven yet either way.

 

Well, a few things:

1. If three big time collectors are offering 150k plus privately, it probably woulda hit at least 250k at open auction just between those three alone at that point in time. That’s just how it goes lol. And I had like 400 followers on IG at the time, not like the general public knew much about it, so who really knows where it could have gone then, though no way it woulda hit 1.5 mil in February. 

2. There was the massive SMB sale for the 700k or so three months ago that attracted a lot of attention and very likely brought in a lot of new money and “legitimacy” to some of the whales in the medium.

3. This auction was the most stacked ever and also the first ever Video Game only auction Heritage has run. There was a lot of momentum going into it. 

I’m not saying any of this means I expected to get anywhere near this, but I did truly believe it had potential to break a million. After the Zelda sale Friday, I def thought it had a real shot. But I also would not have been surprised had both finished under half a million. When you get to this level, it usually just comes down to how badly 2-3 people want something, and you really just never know. I think there is a very real chance none of those 2-3 people who bid owned a single graded video game back in February. The rapid snowball effect in collectibles is very real, and that Mario sale in April is probably what caused the dam to break this auction.

Edited July 13, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

@ExplodedHamster I'll give you 1.6 mil, DM me.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

9 hours ago, guitarzombie said:

People frown on money being thrown around because until recently, this hobby was relatively cheap, compared to others.  Now the game they want, they cant get because some fly by night person swooped up some game for more than it was for the current market and helped raise the price.  At least thats how I see it, else they wouldn't care.  Most of those people aren't into sealed stuff anyway, I also think they're turned off by the avarice of some, and the idea of 'investing' with the idea of buying it now, and selling it later.  Not to own out of love.  I think its silly whats going on, but ultimately it doesn't affect me because I got all the stuff I wanted anyway.

Now give me 10k because I love Maniac Mansion. @ExplodedHamster

It's all relative. I remember a number of times seeing non-collector kids/people upset in pawn shops after the initial boom in 2012 because they couldn't afford a $30 to $40 game that was only a few dollars just years prior. Often asking the clerk why the hell old games were so expensive. 

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

..Congrats of the sale. I honestly still can't believe it... Just bonkers. 

I also agree, even growing up on NES and especially SNES, Mario 64 is still one of the most iconic games ever and holds a significance against SMB being the first 3D depiction of Mario in a game - which has remained relatively unchanged. I still thinks it's an incredible value to pay for the game that's not even 30 years old... Beyond what I'd ever imagine. 

Time to retire to your private island

[docile tapeworm | 4,203]

i wonder how many times ive talked to a millionare without knowing...???

[OptOut | 8,889]

14 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

i wonder how many times ive talked to a millionare without knowing...???

How many times have you talked to me? 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

I was initially surprised, but then it makes more sense as we're getting to that point where this was an age group's (late 20s-early 30s) first Mario game that they played.

 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

54 minutes ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

..Congrats of the sale. I honestly still can't believe it... Just bonkers. 

I also agree, even growing up on NES and especially SNES, Mario 64 is still one of the most iconic games ever and holds a significance against SMB being the first 3D depiction of Mario in a game - which has remained relatively unchanged. I still thinks it's an incredible value to pay for the game that's not even 30 years old... Beyond what I'd ever imagine. 

Time to retire to your private island

I think he lives in CA. After taxes, he might be able to afford a moderate fixer upper

[jonebone | 1,307]

3 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Well, a few things:

1. If three big time collectors are offering 150k plus privately, it probably woulda hit at least 250k at open auction just between those three alone at that point in time. That’s just how it goes lol. And I had like 400 followers on IG at the time, not like the general public knew much about it, so who really knows where it could have gone then, though no way it woulda hit 1.5 mil in February. 

2. There was the massive SMB sale for the 700k or so three months ago that attracted a lot of attention and very likely brought in a lot of new money and “legitimacy” to some of the whales in the medium.

3. This auction was the most stacked ever and also the first ever Video Game only auction Heritage has run. There was a lot of momentum going into it. 

I’m not saying any of this means I expected to get anywhere near this, but I did truly believe it had potential to break a million. After the Zelda sale Friday, I def thought it had a real shot. But I also would not have been surprised had both finished under half a million. When you get to this level, it usually just comes down to how badly 2-3 people want something, and you really just never know. I think there is a very real chance none of those 2-3 people who bid owned a single graded video game back in February. The rapid snowball effect in collectibles is very real, and that Mario sale in April is probably what caused the dam to break this auction.

I can corroborate the Mario offers as I had at least 2 wanting my 90+ at 75k back in Jan / Feb which I declined.  So private demand had already picked up before public took notice.

But I really did think the HA auctions were "too loaded", especially as we came into summertime after a Covid lull and I expected more traveling.  Cream of the crop continues to rise but a lot of the other stuff had been fairly stagnant lately.  Tons of stuff hitting eBay and social media and not moving nearly as fast as it used to.  It seems we get into a cycle of HA signature sale / demand peak, then slow taper down until the next signature peak, rinse and repeat.  I wouldn't have been surprised if many stuff underperformed, kinda shocked how well almost everything did.

I will say that there appears to be an over emphasis on condition when the buyers clearly don't know whats out there.  For example, the Super Mario World population in 9.4 A+ or higher shape is probably lower than Super Mario 64 population in 9.6 A++ and higher.  Point being if people expect to hold out until a Super Mario World 9.8 A++ hits the market they'll never get one, or it should be about $15M comparatively compared to the Super Mario 64.   Mario World 9.4 A+ seems like a steal at $360k if Mario 64 9.8 A++ is $1.5M...

Either way congrats, but bidding seems to imply people think there are 9.8 A++ available on all titles.  Which as many of us know, that will never be the case.

Edited July 13, 2021 by jonebone

[GPX | 1,370]

3 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I can corroborate the Mario offers as I had at least 2 wanting my 90+ at 75k back in Jan / Feb which I declined.  So private demand had already picked up before public took notice.

But I really did think the HA auctions were "too loaded", especially as we came into summertime after a Covid lull and I expected more traveling.  Cream of the crop continues to rise but a lot of the other stuff had been fairly stagnant lately.  Tons of stuff hitting eBay and social media and not moving nearly as fast as it used to.  It seems we get into a cycle of HA signature sale / demand peak, then slow taper down until the next signature peak, rinse and repeat.

I will say that there appears to be an over emphasis on condition when the buyers clearly don't know whats out there.  For example, the Super Mario World population in 9.4 A+ or higher shape is probably lower than Super Mario 64 population in 9.6 A++ and higher.  Point being if people expect to hold out until a Super Mario World hits the market they'll never get one, or it should be about $15M comparatively compared to the Super Mario 64.  

Either way congrats, but bidding seems to imply people think there are 9.8 A++ available on all titles.  Which as many of us know, that will never be the case.

This is where pop reports would help to differentiate the genuine rarity among condition tiers, and price might then follow according to the tiers and the numbers present within each tier. Because currently if it’s a 9.8A++ regardless of what title and what production run, there’s a chance it could keep breaking records at the speed of light (using the common HA buyer “logic” as it currently stands).

 

[ApebitMusic | 130]

Let's boycott WATA and VGA until they release pop reports. BOOM. 

Seriously though. I would love to see how it affects values. I think it will go either way, depending on the game, the # in the pop report, and whatever the market decides is a HIGH pop vs LOW pop. 

Would this theoretical pop report include variants as well? Who knows. 

[AdamW | 713]

@joneboneI do feel like there's a reasonable argument that SM64 is more 'significant' than SMW, though. SMW doesn't do anything entirely revolutionary; it's more or less a logical extension of things SMB3 was doing, with better graphics.

SM64 OTOH is in a similar position for '3D platforming' as SMB1 is for 'side-scrolling 2D platforming'. Neither technically originated the genre exactly, but they're the reason those genres became foundational industry archetypes that are both still around and still among the most popular kinds of game. They both introduced numerous ideas and mechanics that are now basically 'industry standard'. You can't really talk about SMW in quite those terms.

[TDIRunner | 2,742]

4 hours ago, docile tapeworm said:

i wonder how many times ive talked to a millionare without knowing...???

Considering that a millionaire isn't that big of a deal these days, probably more than you realize, .

[Californication | 1,477]

16 minutes ago, AdamW said:

@joneboneI do feel like there's a reasonable argument that SM64 is more 'significant' than SMW, though. SMW doesn't do anything entirely revolutionary; it's more or less a logical extension of things SMB3 was doing, with better graphics.

SM64 OTOH is in a similar position for '3D platforming' as SMB1 is for 'side-scrolling 2D platforming'. Neither technically originated the genre exactly, but they're the reason those genres became foundational industry archetypes that are both still around and still among the most popular kinds of game. They both introduced numerous ideas and mechanics that are now basically 'industry standard'. You can't really talk about SMW in quite those terms.

The difference between SMB and SM64 affect on platforming specifically is that following SMB platforming hit it's peaks while after SM64 platforming made some nice appearances on the PS1, PS2, Xbox 360, but in very few numbers. 

So if someone wants to claim SM64 is as pivotal as SMB they would have to leave platforming out of the reasoning for something more vague like 3d interaction with the environment.