The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[fsped09 | 223]

Just now, Lincoln said:

I think there's some evidence that a flu shot will at least reduce the severity of illness if you do happen to catch it

That is my understanding as well. While each person is different, my wife "forgot" (she doesn't like needles) to get hers and got a case of the Flu. My son did as well, he did have the vaccine. The difference in this case was that my son was sick for about two days, whereas she was ill for about five-six days. That is our personal experience, but is in line to how I understand it works. 

[Quest4Nes | 376]

2 hours ago, epiclotus said:

Sure, at some point, someone made the decision to take drugs when they still had some kind of rational ability to choose otherwise.  I agree with that, and that such a choice is really bad for both oneself and the community.  There are no perfect people in this world, though, and mistakes get made. 

Addiction is a state of being beyond where rational choices can be made.  The only thing a needle exchange program does is provide them with a better chance not to contract a horrible illness on top of their addiction.  As you say, most drug addicts will die from drug use; that, right there, is the consequence of their poor choice.  We can't always help that end, even with good counsel and help.  The spread of HIV to the drug using communities because of reused needles, though, is an unintended consequence.  Nobody is choosing to get HIV.

I am not saying we should be facilitating them with the drugs to continue their addiction.  Clean needles are not an enabler.  These people also need food and water to survive and continue their habit of taking drugs.  Should we deny them those things, as well?  Let them die of starvation or dehydration?  Should the homeless be denied the use of a shelter, or should they be forced to suffer the elements and die of exposure or pneumonia?  Where do you draw the line that people should just have to deal with the consequences of their lives when society, both privately and through gov't programs, can provide help?  

So where does it stop? So people who are overweight food addicts. Do we supply them gym memberships? Since their bad choices lead to healthcare costs that end up costing us a fortune for medicare/disability. We need the govt to step in and help in all aspects you know. They know best. We need them. Or you can just let junkies do what they were going to do anyway. Like you said, they were a lost cause addict as is.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Quest4Nes

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

10 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said:

So where does it stop? So people who are overweight food addicts. Do we supply them gym memberships? Since their bad choices lead to healthcare costs that end up costing us a fortune for medicare/disability. We need the govt to step in and help in all aspects you know. They know best. We need them. Or you can just let junkies do what they were going to do anyway. Like you said, they were a lost cause addict as is.

Or...hear me out... you could do this WITHOUT promoting the spread of AIDS and hepatitis.

 

Not everything is some kind of slippery-slope situation.  If there is a reasonable public health intervention with good efficacy that doesn't inherently cascade to the government dictating minutia in your life.

[VegHead | 127]

28 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said:

So where does it stop? So people who are overweight food addicts. Do we supply them gym memberships? Since their bad choices lead to healthcare costs that end up costing us a fortune for medicare/disability. We need the govt to step in and help in all aspects you know. They know best. We need them. Or you can just let junkies do what they were going to do anyway. Like you said, they were a lost cause addict as is.

I think we both know that loads of fat people have gym memberships.  They're just not using them (myself included).  Also, obesity and poverty do not inherently go hand-in-hand.  Drug addicts that use needles do.  

I understand having a healthy distrust of the government, but a lot of concerns about overreach are very hyperbolic.  It's much more likely that private insurance companies will start requiring gym memberships and weight loss before the government does anything similar.  If you choose not to be healthy, you'll get surcharged, or miss out on a healthy-person discount. They already do this for tobacco use, and they didn't need the government to put them up to it. 

Lastly, I am all for giving gym memberships to everyone.  The YMCA already has a sliding scale for membership fees, you just gave to apply for it. Paying that reduced fee via Medicaid wouldn't bother me one bit for people that want to be healthier but cannot afford it. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by epiclotus
fat thumb typing

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said:

Or...hear me out... you could do this WITHOUT promoting the spread of AIDS and hepatitis.

 

Not everything is some kind of slippery-slope situation.  If there is a reasonable public health intervention with good efficacy that doesn't inherently cascade to the government dictating minutia in your life.

What talking points would they have then?

[Rooster | 124]

People bought all the toilet paper in my town.  Good thing we have some extra, but I feel bad for people who ddn't already have some before people went TP crazy.  Can't find any in any shop anywhere in town.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Why the run on tp though? Everywhere its sold out all the sudden. 
 

should have bought stock in charmin. 

[fsped09 | 223]

14 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Why the run on tp though? Everywhere its sold out all the sudden. 

should have bought stock in charmin. 

People panic when they think that they're going to be stuck in their home. When its snow, its milk and bread, when it's coronavirus it's TP. lol

[fcgamer | 4,723]

8 hours ago, epiclotus said:

Which guy is that, and which outbreak is he in the middle of monitoring?  There are several disconcerting pockets of the virus, both in China and in other countries like Iran and Italy.

Take a look how Italy ended up where they are now. That's yesterday's news, I remember hearing about that back in January.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

Why the run on tp though? Everywhere its sold out all the sudden. 
 

should have bought stock in charmin. 

Not sure about in Japan, but a few weeks back it was the same in Taiwan. It started when someone posted on social media that the material used to make toilet paper was partially the same as that to make surgical masks. Thus with ramped up mask production and the shortage, it would only be time before there would be a shortage of TP.

Story was bogus though, and eventually those who started the rumours, who were involved with a tp company, were fined.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

A link about the former shortage in Taiwan:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3873987

[Rooster | 124]

6 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Not sure about in Japan, but a few weeks back it was the same in Taiwan. It started when someone posted on social media that the material used to make toilet paper was partially the same as that to make surgical masks. Thus with ramped up mask production and the shortage, it would only be time before there would be a shortage of TP.

Story was bogus though, and eventually those who started the rumours, who were involved with a tp company, were fined.

The rumor I've heard spread around my town is that the TP is largely manufactured in China, and that Chinese people are being confined to their houses, so it will surely disrupt the supply chain, an TP will be the first thing to go.

No idea if that's true or not, but it's the excuse I've heard for people buying it all up.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

14 minutes ago, Rooster said:

The rumor I've heard spread around my town is that the TP is largely manufactured in China, and that Chinese people are being confined to their houses, so it will surely disrupt the supply chain, an TP will be the first thing to go.

No idea if that's true or not, but it's the excuse I've heard for people buying it all up.

Doesn't seem like it would account for TP buying in the USA, since I am pretty sure most of our paper products are manufactured domestically, and most Americans are familiar enough with the smell of a paper plant to not think that our paper supplies would be disrupted by China in any way.

[Rooster | 124]

4 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

Doesn't seem like it would account for TP buying in the USA, since I am pretty sure most of our paper products are manufactured domestically, and most Americans are familiar enough with the smell of a paper plant to not think that our paper supplies would be disrupted by China in any way.

I can't speak for that, I haven't set foot in the USA in over 4 years.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

20 minutes ago, Rooster said:

The rumor I've heard spread around my town is that the TP is largely manufactured in China, and that Chinese people are being confined to their houses, so it will surely disrupt the supply chain, an TP will be the first thing to go.

No idea if that's true or not, but it's the excuse I've heard for people buying it all up.

What brands do you have in Japan? I know some tp is made in Taiwan too.

[Gloves | 11,776]

I love that the conversation has turned to toilet paper.

[Rooster | 124]

11 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

What brands do you have in Japan? I know some tp is made in Taiwan too.

There are several different brands.  My local super market only sells one called Ellair, but I know you can get cottonelle and other kinds, too.  I have no clue where these things are manuactured to be honest.

[VegHead | 127]

I think I bought Japanese toilet paper once at a Japanese market in Chicago.  

 

That's it.  I don't have anything else to my story.

[Rooster | 124]

I'll just throw in there that, as is tradition, people are trying to scalp toilet paper on the amazon market place.  36 rolls of toilet paper is like 12,000 yen plus shipping.  Under normal circumstances you could probably get that at any supermarket for like 2,000 yen.

[ALTQQ | 87]

With the markets down nows the time to buy stock in tp  companies. Liquidate your Nintendo tape assets and buy tp shares

[Link | 2,709]

52 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I love that the conversation has turned to toilet paper.

Just wait til the poll on whether you use it standing up.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

I love that the conversation has turned to toilet paper.

Just as well. At some point every conversation turns to shit.

[SpoonMan Abrams X | 697]

8 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

What talking points would they have then?

You poke it too hard and the straw-man is liable to just fall apart and be blown away in the wind

[Tabonga | 2,317]

I wonder if the (manufactured) shortage will drive the value of this up:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-50520446

[RH | 4,903]

I swear, with each passing day it's becoming easier and easier for rational people to become conspiracy theorists... or at least to not trust half the population like you are one of those types.

I've been noticing on the trend lines how in the past 15 days or so WHO numbers are showing that China seems to have their reported cases "under control".  Huh... I doubt that. I mention the conspiracy bit above, because I've tried to Google every which way I can "is china lying about it's COVID-19 numbers" and nothing is coming up.  Either Google is covering it up, or no one is reporting on these suspicious numbers.  Certainly I'm not the only one asking how China could be reporting an increase in numbers by only 100 or so per day.

I mean, maybe they aren't testing people and they are just treating anyone with symptoms.  But, still, it'd be interesting to see some article pointing out this trend and explaining what's going on.

 

Source: 

Johns Hopkins Aggregated Chart (expand the chart at the bottom-right for the day-to-day details for China vs. the rest of the world.)

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6