Heritage Auctions Thread

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

So tell me if I have this right. That Jeff guy from Go Collect, who bought and destroyed Nintendo Age and GameValueNow, is (based on SEC filings) a partner of WATA Games? So everyone here who hates that the NA community got destroyed, but still has WATA grade games for them, is un-knowingly supporting the guy?

Unless I misunderstood, that is true, and it's totally insane. 

[Guest]

I've been away from collecting sites for quite some time. Really weird seeing those two as the head of something big when the last time I saw their names they were just a member on NA. 

Just curious, do they mingle in these parts like they did at NA? I have no opinion on the WATA stuff, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the current scene. 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

5 hours ago, BreaKBeatZ said:

Any Deniz defenders still left? The old guard that insists he's a good kid with the best intentions?

+1 with me (if that counts for anything). 

When it comes to my support of CAS, I failed to point out that Todd A. DeMartino did a kickstarter for a Star Wars action figure book that he never managed to complete. But when it comes to the toy collecting hobby, it is a different story. Like Deniz, he shows some level of interest in what others collect even if they do not collect it themselves. Including items that are not graded by the companies they represent. Because by the end of the day, they know that every collector is different. And that if it was not for select types out there, we would not have as interesting of a hobby as we do today.

As for Ken Black... This forum-based topic is why I tried to give Wata a chance even though the push on NA had annoyed the shit out of me. So much that I thought I'd drop a weight class or two. With the irony being that the OP was found to be shadier than his depiction of Ken Black. But that is a different story.

2 hours ago, osg said:

Hey fellas it's me, some dude. Is something shitty happening at the top of the hobby for the first time ever? 

Yup! I had a sealed Japanese Dreamcast game graded by CAS, as opposed to graciously donating it to @OptOut's collection! Plus, people are using HA auctions as a means to manipulate Wata graded game sales. But we all know that the former is, by far, the worst of the two. 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

2 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

So tell me if I have this right. That Jeff guy from Go Collect, who bought and destroyed Nintendo Age and GameValueNow, is (based on SEC filings) a partner of WATA Games? So everyone here who hates that the NA community got destroyed, but still has WATA grade games for them, is un-knowingly supporting the guy?

Unless I misunderstood, that is true, and it's totally insane. 

No clue, but I wanted to note that my last visit to GoCollect was a bad joke. I went there is hopes of finding a price for a G.I. Joe comic book that the eBay seller lost, and found that it was not part of their 'key issue' section. Instead, they promoted a few issues that were not worth buying just because they had low publication numbers. 

[JVOSS | 1,762]

11 hours ago, JVOSS said:

owner of heritage actions had been fined $ 1.2 million in the 80s for manipulating the coin market.  now lets see what will happen with the video game market  Will WATA / GVN get caught with there hands in the cookie jar.  i hope so. that is my 1.2million cents worth of soap-boxing..

and the one thing to remember about a conman.  once a conman always a conman..... 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

31 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

So tell me if I have this right. That Jeff guy from Go Collect, who bought and destroyed Nintendo Age and GameValueNow, is (based on SEC filings) a partner of WATA Games? So everyone here who hates that the NA community got destroyed, but still has WATA grade games for them, is un-knowingly supporting the guy?

Unless I misunderstood, that is true, and it's totally insane. 

IIRC, didn't it come to light that Dain ended up involved with them somehow as well, after the sale and general shutdown of NA went through?  If so, that's adding more fuel to the fire, as you're supporting both of the guys who directly in-the-light-of-day led to the destruction of the old site/community.

[a3quit4s | 4,099]

4 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

IIRC, didn't it come to light that Dain ended up involved with them somehow as well, after the sale and general shutdown of NA went through?  If so, that's adding more fuel to the fire, as you're supporting both of the guys who directly in-the-light-of-day led to the destruction of the old site/community.

It’s in the video, Dain is listed on the SEC filings as an Executive Officer for 1Up gaming which became WATA games. Deniz was quoted as saying employees are not allowed to have games graded and Jeff, being listed as a Director in WATA sec filings, had pretty much all Dains games graded through WATA. 

[B.A. | 1,139]

3 hours ago, jonebone said:

I usually don't take the bait but yes, I would go to bat for his reputation any day of the week.  It's not my job to be his defender but he had the Wata idea started very early in his life.  All of these conflict of interest arguments were made 2.5 years ago and I agree they aren't the best look.  But that's for them to worry about, not me.

I just know that as a person, Deniz is not just one of, but probably the most humble and genuine collectors I ever met.  If others around him have muddied the waters that will never change my opinion of him.

I agree 100%. Some of the people he surrounded himself with are questionable to say the least, but I would absolutely still vouch for Deniz. I don't have to agree with everything he says and does, but he absolutely is genuine in his interest in games and collecting.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

Just now, a3quit4s said:

It’s in the video, Dain is listed on the SEC filings as an Executive Officer for 1Up gaming which became WATA games. Deniz was quoted as saying employees are not allowed to have games graded and Jeff, being listed as a Director in WATA sec filings, had pretty much all Dains games graded through WATA. 

Ok, missed that, but I was in and out of the room trying to listen in a couple of times.  I remember he got mentioned for selling NA and then the Jeff/WATA connection came up, but I didn't hear/see them linking Dain directly into working for WATA.  So...yeah.  If things are as bad as they look...yikes.

[B.A. | 1,139]

3 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Ok, missed that, but I was in and out of the room trying to listen in a couple of times.  I remember he got mentioned for selling NA and then the Jeff/WATA connection came up, but I didn't hear/see them linking Dain directly into working for WATA.  So...yeah.  If things are as bad as they look...yikes.

My understanding is they were some sort of "advisors" or "consultants" leading up to and when the company was initially launched (presumably around the time of that filing). I can't definitively say when that ended, but I suspect they would say prior to the "Carolina Collection".  If the timing matters or not is for each person to decide. 

[Californication | 1,477]

I've got a question. The fact that some of the Mario Galaxy 2 graded are selling between $1-$2K is so intiguing. Can someone explain to me how all the grades I am seeing are relatively low? It just seems weird that you can probably go get a sealed box of these somewhere and someone wouldn't send in their best copy to have it graded.

[guitarzombie | 924]

34 minutes ago, B.A. said:

I agree 100%. Some of the people he surrounded himself with are questionable to say the least, but I would absolutely still vouch for Deniz. I don't have to agree with everything he says and does, but he absolutely is genuine in his interest in games and collecting.

I have to admit I don't know the person personally, but I've always believed where there's smoke theres fire.  In my experience, good people don't surround themselves with 'questionable' people. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by guitarzombie

[DefaultGen | 5,405]

4 minutes ago, Californication said:

I've got a question. The fact that some of the Mario Galaxy 2 graded are selling between $1-$2K is so intiguing. Can someone explain to me how all the grades I am seeing are relatively low? It just seems weird that you can probably go get a sealed box of these somewhere and someone wouldn't send in their best copy to have it graded.

Most graded copies you see were probably bought off Ebay a year or two ago for $25 and shipped in bubble mailers, not from cases. The easiest way to get in on the Wata gold rush has been to just buy out everything on Ebay and send it in.

Who is paying $1k for them, no idea.

[GPX | 1,369]

11 minutes ago, B.A. said:

I agree 100%. Some of the people he surrounded himself with are questionable to say the least, but I would absolutely still vouch for Deniz. I don't have to agree with everything he says and does, but he absolutely is genuine in his interest in games and collecting.

Vouching for Deniz as a person/collector has no real bearing on Deniz as a businessman. Granted, I don’t know anything about him apart from the YouTube videos I see, but some opinions can be made of market manipulation to some degree between WATA/HA. The facts are undeniable. 

Also, if you surround yourself with questionable people, then it’s fair for others to question how questionable you are. (Hope that made sense)

[Aatos | 35]

On 8/23/2021 at 10:05 PM, Gloves said:

 

It's an hour-long watch, and a lot of stuff we've already discussed here on VGS, but it takes everything and puts it in a nice consumable video and makes it all pretty clear.

He goes into NintendoAge stuff pretty deeply especially.

So on top of everything, the douche who single handedly destroyed NintendoAge is actually a(n undisclosed) director for Wata, and people here still use the service? Wow. 

4 hours ago, jonebone said:

All of these conflict of interest arguments were made 2.5 years ago and I agree they aren't the best look.  But that's for them to worry about, not me.

I just know that as a person, Deniz is not just one of, but probably the most humble and genuine collectors I ever met.  If others around him have muddied the waters that will never change my opinion of him.

Sounds like you give him free pass for at least the clearly apparent market manipulation / unethical utilization of his position to drive up the market to his own financial benefit? Like he isn't an adult making those choices for his company himself, but just some kid caught between some questionable company? Like somehow the fact that he's a sweet kid and genuinely passionate about videogames somehow means it's ok if he does something unethical that hurts other people? I'm not sure I understand your logic here.

If you (and several others here) know him so well, maybe you should raise some of the serious issues mentioned here? 

[B.A. | 1,139]

1 minute ago, GPX said:

Vouching for Deniz as a person/collector has no real bearing on Deniz as a businessman. Granted, I don’t know anything about him apart from the YouTube videos I see, but some opinions can be made of market manipulation to some degree between WATA/HA. The facts are undeniable. 

Also, if you surround yourself with questionable people, then it’s fair for others to question how questionable you are. (Hope that made sense)

I'm not him so I'm not going to speak for him. I think he really believes the hyperbole he says though. Does that make it market manipulation? Or enthusism? I roll my eyes at a lot of it, but I don't think graded comics and cards should be worth as much as they sell for either. So what do I know. 

[a3quit4s | 4,099]

30 minutes ago, B.A. said:

My understanding is they were some sort of "advisors" or "consultants" leading up to and when the company was initially launched (presumably around the time of that filing). I can't definitively say when that ended, but I suspect they would say prior to the "Carolina Collection".  If the timing matters or not is for each person to decide. 

@darkchylde28 SEC filings are here for those curious. 
 

https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/ciks=0001711064&entityName=Wata%2C%20Inc.%20(CIK%200001711064)

Honestly, the shadiest character in all this is Jim Halperin from HA. Although the Deniz, Dain, and Jeff trifecta is a really close second. 
 

Can’t wait for the Netflix mini series

edit: the timing of Dain being a long time collector and running NA and then just deciding to sell it all to Jeff, who’s company was just getting involved with gaming, and Deniz starting WATA, and Jim from HA not going to VGA to get graded games but partners with some unknown company is the biggest coincidence in the history of coincidence 

Edited August 24, 2021 by a3quit4s

[GPX | 1,369]

2 minutes ago, B.A. said:

I'm not him so I'm not going to speak for him. I think he really believes the hyperbole he says though. Does that make it market manipulation? Or enthusism? I roll my eyes at a lot of it, but I don't think graded comics and cards should be worth as much as they sell for either. So what do I know. 

I have been thinking about market manipulation about the graded game scene a lot in this particular year, and I believe there are many layers to it, not necessarily only from WATA. Here’s but one example where there is a subtle market manipulation on Deniz’s part:

- promotes WATA as a grading company all for transparency.

- promotes the game scene akin to the comic collecting scene.

- 2 years with the company in full effect, still no population report despite the 2 points above.

- then explains that showing population reports might mislead consumers of what’s rare/common.

- goes on Pawn Stars several times sharing “pop reports” eg. “Highest grade sample”, “not many exists in this condition”. 

- gives price valuation where not his business to, or a conflict of interest by doing so.

————————

Deniz might be the nicest guy to socialise with, but again, no bearing on his business decisions and business practices.

[Brickman | 3,986]

Like others have said, I can't speak for Deniz personally because I've never dealt with him but I find it very hard to believe he is unaware of what is going on in a company he created. And if he really is "unaware" then this video surely has connected the dots for him and all parties involved should now come out and be more transparent in their dealings. 

Now we know why no one can replicate his success, the company is based on inside circles.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

some emails from Deniz:

 

Subject: Buy/Sell

"Hey, do you have games to sell me? I need to buy some for my personal collection. I'm so busy with Wata I haven't been able to build my own stuff and keep missing on titles I wanted that are going up up up. I want to knock a few out. Just sold a bunch of stocks, would love to dump on quality games. How's your inventory look right now? "

 

different email

"No I’m not looking for 1 game lol. I’d definitely be into buying a lot, like a lot a lot maybe. Depending on what you have. 40+ decent titles.

 

Know that I did not start Wata to be just be an alternative and say hey send us games. Most of my efforts have been to GROW the market and that’s what it’ll always be about, growing it in the right way. And it’s still growing insanely rapidly. I’m glad that’s translating into sales for you. Keep having supply and you will keep winning."

 

 

 

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

Just now, SealedWholesale said:

some emails from Deniz:

 

Subject: Buy/Sell

"Hey, do you have games to sell me? I need to buy some for my personal collection. I'm so busy with Wata I haven't been able to build my own stuff and keep missing on titles I wanted that are going up up up. I want to knock a few out. Just sold a bunch of stocks, would love to dump on quality games. How's your inventory look right now? "

 

different email

"No I’m not looking for 1 game lol. I’d definitely be into buying a lot, like a lot a lot maybe. Depending on what you have. 40+ decent titles.

 

Know that I did not start Wata to be just be an alternative and say hey send us games. Most of my efforts have been to GROW the market and that’s what it’ll always be about, growing it in the right way. And it’s still growing insanely rapidly. I’m glad that’s translating into sales for you. Keep having supply and you will keep winning."

 

 

 

in fairness it's for his personal collection so i feel bad he cant collect games anymore? but sealed 2-3 sealed collectors sold all their stuff and their buyers are much bigger into marketing and money than games.

 

hold on to your black box games and mint condition 1st party. they want to clear out the rare stuff and grade the cib

[B.A. | 1,139]

It was asked earlier specifically if anyone here would still defend Deniz. Well the video was a nicely done summary, but there is nothing in it that anyone following this thread didn't already know. 

-Deniz is a shameless self promoter.

-Heritage guy is dirty.

-The Carolina Collection was a terrible idea.

-WATA should release population reports. 

I knew all that stuff already. The hobby isn't ruined for me. I don't have any WATA games and don't intend to. 

Or maybe he's got me fooled and I've just been mind manulipated as part of the master plan. 

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

5 minutes ago, B.A. said:

 -WATA should release population reports. 

The hobby isn't ruined for me. I don't have any WATA games and don't intend to. 

Or maybe he's got me fooled and I've just been mind manulipated as part of the master plan. 

blarkys pop relese tells the whole market and it's dire. there are 100 copies of comics so it's only a matter of new collectors entering the hobby and new supply coming for sale

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by SealedWholesale

[Foxhack | 25]

26 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

edit: the timing of Dain being a long time collector and running NA and then just deciding to sell it all to Jeff, who’s company was just getting involved with gaming, and Deniz starting WATA, and Jim from HA not going to VGA to get graded games but partners with some unknown company is the biggest coincidence in the history of coincidence 

And this is what bugged me the most about that video. NA was a hell of a community and... he threw it all away for this? I wasn't even a regular there and even I felt pain at this.

[a3quit4s | 4,099]

19 minutes ago, Foxhack said:

And this is what bugged me the most about that video. NA was a hell of a community and... he threw it all away for this? I wasn't even a regular there and even I felt pain at this.

Out of all the people involved Dain would really be the only person whom I’d believe had no idea. He ran NA for a long time, even hosted camp outs for people to get together. At some point you call it quits when the right offer comes along, take the games and the site. You never know though, money does weird things to people. 
 

edit: @B.A. pointed out Dain did not host the camp outs - my bad!

Edited August 24, 2021 by a3quit4s