Heritage Auctions Thread

[Dumars2001 | 164]

Looks like PWCC is now trying to sell the record breaking Super Mario Bros for "only" $200,000 more.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Dumars2001

[JVOSS | 1,762]

with WATA/GVN and OLD NA it was profiteering at the finest.  wata control every point from the valuation to the certification to the sale.  they were/are able to dictate any price for any retro/new game.

and the sad fact is that we all every single one of us support them/him in someway or another over the last 10 years, EVERYONE.

 

[B.A. | 1,139]

2 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Out of all the people involved Dain would really be the only person whom I’d believe had no idea. He ran NA for a long time, even hosted camp outs for people to get together. At some point you call it quits when the right offer comes along, take the games and the site. You never know though, money does weird things to people. 

Dain did not host the campouts.

[Crabmaster2000 | 500]

8 hours ago, BreaKBeatZ said:

Any Deniz defenders still left? The old guard that insists he's a good kid with the best intentions?

I wasn't close to him, but did several sales/trades with him when he was quite young. He was genuinely into gaming and a positive part of the community back then. It's such a shame to see what he's become now and how he's so negatively effecting this hobby that, even if he doesn't anymore, seemed to love at some point in the past. 

Feel identical about Dain as well. 

These revelations hurt a lot. Nintendoage was a huge part of my life for years and and just logging in one day to see it gone with no warning still is a sore spot. 

[JVOSS | 1,762]

1 minute ago, Dumars2001 said:

Looks like PWCC is now trying to sell the record breaking Super Mario Bros for only $200,000 more.

keep an eye on this.  it has a chance of dropping to the low 100 dollar range as the wata train and heritage train derail...

 

[docile tapeworm | 4,194]

4 minutes ago, Crabmaster2000 said:

 

Feel identical about Dain as well. 

after i watched the video i wondered, how long did this guy know he was gonna sell out? could be way off.

[a3quit4s | 4,092]

8 minutes ago, JVOSS said:

keep an eye on this.  it has a chance of dropping to the low 100 dollar range as the wata train and heritage train derail...

 

Not that I’d expect that much of a drop but I wonder how people holding WATA graded games feel right now. I don’t own any and usually just speculate on graded gaming. 

[JVOSS | 1,762]

6 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Not that I’d expect that much of a drop but I wonder how people holding WATA graded games feel right now. I don’t own any and usually just speculate on graded gaming. 

the only saving grace of this 9.8 wata SM is that it will grade 80 at CGCVG and a 70 at VGA

Edited August 24, 2021 by JVOSS

[Brickman | 3,980]

18 minutes ago, JVOSS said:

keep an eye on this.  it has a chance of dropping to the low 100 dollar range as the wata train and heritage train derail...

 

If we have companies that are selling fractional shares maybe someone needs to create a company that shorts graded games too haha. Could be The Big Short of the gaming world!

[JVOSS | 1,762]

4 minutes ago, Shmup said:

If we have companies that are selling fractional shares maybe someone needs to create a company that shorts graded games too haha. Could be The Big Short of the gaming world!

just think we have our "WORLD COM" for video games.  go Heritagewatagvn...  "ill buy that for a buck!!"

[AdamW | 713]

22 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Not that I’d expect that much of a drop but I wonder how people holding WATA graded games feel right now. I don’t own any and usually just speculate on graded gaming. 

I don't own any either, but from what I've seen, none of them are that bothered. The general response to this video in places where WATA people hang out has been 'meh'.

I do think some people are overestimating the impact this will have...but hey, I could be wrong.

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

17 minutes ago, AdamW said:

I don't own any either, but from what I've seen, none of them are that bothered. The general response to this video in places where WATA people hang out has been 'meh'.

I do think some people are overestimating the impact this will have...but hey, I could be wrong.

the collectors that bought in 2017 are expecting 10x returns. so the 5k game you valued at 2.5k is now 'selling' for 50k but the market is shill so it's back down to 5k again. do you value it at 5k now?

Edited August 24, 2021 by SealedWholesale

[jonebone | 1,307]

I'll add one detailed counter response if anyone cares to read.  

You have to watch until the 51 minute part until the agenda becomes clear, he admits hating graded games.  Compare this to any real investigative journalism like 20/20 where they interview all parties, he never bothered to reach out to any of the people he was tarnishing.  Even CNN and professional sites will at least say that so-and-so said "No Comment", when asked; we didn't even get that.

His "experts" (Pat / Other guy) both hate grading, not to mention Pat is a hypocrite who tried to pump his NWCs on Pawn Stars eons ago.  Now Wata does it and he cries foul.  Why not interview some actual graded collectors who have collected for a decade plus and get their thoughts on how wacky or sane this market is?  Asking a cart collector for opinions on sealed games is like having your English teacher grade your math homework.

When Deniz mentioned Wata to me years ago I wished him luck and thought he was a few years too late.  We were right off the NES classic which tanked loose cart values and the gamers had their fix in hacking them.  What was left were the collectors and the market was very stagnant, no new blood coming in.

I severely underestimated their marketing though.  It was as simple as take a Wata prototype case to a bunch of comic shows around the country and get people to buy in.  It's not collusion, it's about a college kid having a business plan, marketing that idea and then entering into exclusive deals so his brand would outperform VGA.  Perhaps he underestimated the public outcry from having big name investors like Halperin / Gocollect be named on filing reports, but those guys are just investors and not employees in the day to day operations.

As far as "pumping" in general?  What do you want people to say?  Of course sealed collectors believe the hobby will go up. I knew we'd have a million dollar game in my lifetime, though I expected to be in my 50s (I'm 37).  If you want to blame the massive acceleration fine... but the values were going to get there one day anyway.  I personally think that fractional ownership is a MUCH bigger force behind acceleration than collusion, but to each their own.  At least the owner did note that, as that is a big contributor to where we are.

But end of day of course you are going to believe in your vision.  It's like when you work at a company and they give you stock options.  You want your company to perform well so the stock options are worth more.  Does that make you a manipulator?  Same here, he loves collecting and wanted the hobby to grow.  In doing so Wata has naturally grown as well and values have taken off.  It's what came first the chicken or the egg?  He didn't make up values to grow his business, the market has created their values by using HA and Wata and those companies naturally reap the benefits.

End of day believe what you want, but if the news articles are guilty of "pumping" the market then this article is guilty of attempting to short with a lot of finger pointing and not speaking to anyone really in the know. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by jonebone

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

1 minute ago, jonebone said:

 and not speaking to anyone really in the know. 

can you match those sale prices? i tried to sell them at 20% and got 0 interest

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

As a seller of numerous high end items via auction, all I know is I got paid, and I also know at least one of the buyers for a number. This person is a well known collector near the top of the food chain and is definitely NOT Jim Halperin or anyone at HA lol. I feel the suggestion at that with no real evidence was a pretty shitty thing to suggest without more.
 

The thing with Pat and Reserved Investments guy was cringeworthy. Pat is a populist media figure with no real knowledge of sealed games whatsoever and Reserved Investments is assuredly not a “lifelong video game collector who is an expert in the field.” Then their YT channels got pimped. 
 

I mean it is what it is, and these kinds of suggestions were inevitable with the market blowing up like this. Not much I can do about it. The death of NA was pretty shitty, though, mostly because all the data was lost. And for what purpose? Blah.

Edited August 24, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[Boss | 16]

More Youtubers on the story.

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]

The whole thing is just disappointing and its all about money. Who knows if anything will come out of this. At the very least, more people will now be more informed about the relationships of the "players" involved. I am all for disclosure and transparency. People looking to get into this crap for investing purposes just need to be careful.

Edited August 24, 2021 by WalterWhiteJr.

[a3quit4s | 4,092]

@jonebone I absolutely respect your opinion as a pillar of the community and someone well versed in graded game collecting. I am curious to know though, if WATA/HA had to conform to the same rules as a publicly traded company, would anything presented arise suspicion for you?

Can it be said that because they deal in collectibles, they have slipped through the cracks in regards to accountability, which Jim Halperin has experience with? Do you also feel that the positive marketing they have received has also irresponsibility left out some details about the relationships?

[broncofantd793 | 138]

4 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Same here, he loves collecting and wanted the hobby to grow.  In doing so Wata has naturally grown as well and values have taken off.  It's what came first the chicken or the egg?  He didn't make up values to grow his business, the market has created their values by using HA and Wata and those companies naturally reap the benefits.

He didn't make up values to grow his business, the market has created their values by using HA and Wata and those companies naturally reap the benefits.

He "wanted the hobby to grow" much like for profit colleges wanted to "educate."  There's no shame in being after money, just don't be unethical or holier than thou about it.

THE MARKET USING WATA AND HERITAGE TO CREATE VALUE IS THE EXACT PROBLEM WE'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT.  Those of us that are "not in the know" don't care about the value, we care about the ethics.

Here's an example.

John starts a company around toothpicks.  The company focuses on making sure the toothpicks are real wood and not some other dental material.  John's goal is to one day sell his company, much like any business.  John goes to Todd to help sell his "authenticated" toothpicks.  Todd starts his relationship with a brand new company by paying a huge amount of money for one of John's toothpicks.  John makes media appearances touting the legitimacy of his toothpicks, thanks to Todd's sale price.  People with no knowledge of toothpicks but that are very bored with their other hobbies, start buying toothpicks.  If Todd got such a good deal on his toothpick, then these people need toothpicks too! ......... Need I go on here?

This whole thing is one big money grab wrapped up in a huge serving of FOMO.

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]

Just now, broncofantd793 said:

He "wanted the hobby to grow" much like for profit colleges wanted to "educate."  There's no shame in being after money, just don't be unethical or holier than thou about it.

THE MARKET USING WATA AND HERITAGE TO CREATE VALUE IS THE EXACT PROBLEM WE'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT.  Those of us that are "not in the know" don't care about the value, we care about the ethics.

Here's an example.

John starts a company around toothpicks.  The company focuses on making sure the toothpicks are real wood and not some other dental material.  John's goal is to one day sell his company, much like any business.  John goes to Todd to help sell his "authenticated" toothpicks.  Todd starts his relationship with a brand new company by paying a huge amount of money for one of John's toothpicks.  John makes media appearances touting the legitimacy of his toothpicks, thanks to Todd's sale price.  People with no knowledge of toothpicks but that are very bored with their other hobbies, start buying toothpicks.  If Todd got such a good deal on his toothpick, then these people need toothpicks too! ......... Need I go on here?

This whole thing is one big money grab wrapped up in a huge serving of FOMO.

Wait didn't Deniz go on pawnstars and assign value to games? AKA make up a value?...

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

8 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

@jonebone I absolutely respect your opinion as a pillar of the community and someone well versed in graded game collecting. I am curious to know though, if WATA/HA had to conform to the same rules as a publicly traded company, would anything presented arise suspicion for you?

Can it be said that because they deal in collectibles, they have slipped through the cracks in regards to accountability, which Jim Halperin has experience with? Do you also feel that the positive marketing they have received has also irresponsibility left out some details about the relationships?

Again, the “WATA/HA” thing…WATA was just purchased by PSA’s parent company, which owns HA’s competition, Goldin Auctions. In fact, here is a video Goldin just created:

 

10 minutes ago, WalterWhiteJr. said:

The whole thing is just disappointing and its all about money. Who knows if anything will come out of this. At the very least, more people will now be more informed about the relationships of the "players" involved. I am all for disclosure and transparency. The people that profited greatly and continue to engage in the game will defend all the bs going on and poke holes in the story. That's fine. We are all entitled to our own opinion. People looking to get into this crap for investing purposes just need to be careful.

I am trying to give you disclosure and transparency regarding some of these sales, and I feel I am in a better position to do so than Karl Jobst. The other stuff and all that, people will all have opinions and that’s fine, but I can assure you my sales were “real,” at least in the sense someone sent in games and got paid. 
 

In a larger context, you see what other collectibles go for and it’s really not that crazy anymore. This isn’t 2005, everything has gone nutty.

Edited August 24, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[JeremiahJT | 75]

43 minutes ago, jonebone said:

His "experts" (Pat / Other guy) both hate grading, not to mention Pat is a hypocrite who tried to pump his NWCs on Pawn Stars eons ago.  Now Wata does it and he cries foul.  Why not interview some actual graded collectors who have collected for a decade plus and get their thoughts on how wacky or sane this market is?  Asking a cart collector for opinions on sealed games is like having your English teacher grade your math homework.

 

There is a difference here. Pat went on Pawn Stars to show off his game. Deniz went on Pawn Stars as an "expert" to assign a value. As I recall from the video he assigned a value higher than what had ever been payed. Whatever the case, he had a vested interest in setting the value as high as he could. Not setting an accurate one.

 

If you cannot see the difference there then you really do not understand this topic.

Edited August 24, 2021 by JeremiahJT
Spelling

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]

2 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Again, the “WATA/HA” thing…WATA was just purchased by PSA’s parent company, which owns HA’s competition, Goldin Auctions. In fact, here is a video Goldin just created:

 

I am trying to give you disclosure and transparency regarding some of these sales, and I feel I am in a better position to do so than Karl Jobst. The other stuff and all that, people will all have opinions and that’s fine, but I can assure you my sales were “real,” at least in the sense someone sent in games and got paid. 

I am sure your sales are real. And congratulations for making all the money you did off or your games. None of that changes anything. I never said you did not get paid. If I made all that money off of games I would be on a beach chilling out as opposed to a message board defending Wata/HA/etc. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by WalterWhiteJr.

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

Just now, WalterWhiteJr. said:

I am sure your sales are real. And congratulations for making all the money you did off or your games. None of that changes anything. 

Well, I mean a major suggestion in the video is that they weren’t, and the crux of what he’s saying somewhat relies in it, no? I wish the buyers would come forth tbh. 

[a3quit4s | 4,092]

5 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Well, I mean a major suggestion in the video is that they weren’t, and the crux of what he’s saying somewhat relies in it, no? I wish the buyers would come forth tbh. 

I don’t think they are saying all the sales are fake and that is certainly not what I’m saying. I believe the video points out that the sales that started the prices going up exponentially were fabricated. 
 

WATA being bought by another company would not exonerate them from past unethical behavior. I’m not even saying there has been unethical behavior, I’m just saying there is some very convincing evidence that has been presented and a number of people agree. 
 

Edit: I think all that can be said has and I will reply if anyone asks me direct questions but I think this horse has been beaten dead for me. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by a3quit4s