Thank F*ck GUILTY

[DarkTone | 986]

Thats fucked up. 

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

did george floyd really help rob people in thier home by pointing a gun at a lady? is it true the lady was pregnant and floyd pointed the gun at her belly?

[Tulpa | 3,517]

7 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

did george floyd really help rob people in thier home by pointing a gun at a lady? is it true the lady was pregnant and floyd pointed the gun at her belly?

Yes, and he served time for that.

[Gloves | 11,796]

1 hour ago, Khromak said:

@Silent Hill you're right I wasn't aware of how he ended up on the ground, but regardless if he was on the ground because he asked to be placed there, there's absolutely no need to hold his head on the ground while he's cuffed and you have 3 of your friends nearby, a taser, and a gun. Are you that afraid of being kicked by this handcuffed guy?

Sure, we can go over examples of white people being killed, I'm certain that it happens. But nothing is proven through anecdotes. That's why people use statistics instead of stories. The stories are only there to emphasize the point. I'm sure if there was a huge problem with people's ice cream melting we'd point to the temperatures outside, but also if you wanted to drive the point home to people, you'd probably point to a video of someone with melted ice cream on their hands, right?

OK so you say that the problem is with the number of involvements with police. Don't you think that's weird? That people of color are involved with the police more than whites? What do you think the reason for that is? Behind door 1: they're just worse people which causes them to be in contact with police more (definition of racism). Behind door 2: police are targeting them disproportionally (the topic of this discussion). If you've got another explanation I'm open to ideas.

My freezer isn't currently cold enough to keep my ice cream cold, so unfortunately the Buster Bars that I bought have all melted.

True story.

[Khromak | 769]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

My freezer isn't currently cold enough to keep my ice cream cold, so unfortunately the Buster Bars that I bought have all melted.

True story.

Look I didn't mean to bring up such a charged and sensitive subject in this simple video game forum. I'm sorry for your loss.

[Gloves | 11,796]

1 minute ago, Khromak said:

Look I didn't mean to bring up such a charged and sensitive subject in this simple video game forum. I'm sorry for your loss.

It's ok, you can't have known.

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

I'm learning a lot. I didn't know people felt this way.

[a3quit4s | 4,105]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

My freezer isn't currently cold enough to keep my ice cream cold, so unfortunately the Buster Bars that I bought have all melted.

True story.

Don't you just put the ice cream outside in Canada cause it's always cold? How else do the hockey rinks where everyone works stay frozen?

[Californication | 1,477]

2 hours ago, Silent Hill said:

Lastly, consider that the discrepancy in use-of-force data by race is multi-factored, one factor being the number of police interactions per race. It's not a fair assumption to claim any, or the majority, use of force by police towards minorities is racially driven. 

The police and politicians decide which crimes they are going to go after. Police stations nationwide think it is more important to over-police poor colored communities, like when Eric Garner was killed for selling loose cigarettes, but the governement put's little to no effort in catching white collar criminals who are often educated and white. That is the definition of racist.

More on the racism within policing:

https://www.democracynow.org/2021/4/21/chauvin_conviction_police_brutality_khalil_gibran

[Gloves | 11,796]

32 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Don't you just put the ice cream outside in Canada cause it's always cold? How else do the hockey rinks where everyone works stay frozen?

It literally snowed today, so actually that may have been a viable option.

[Silent Hill | 276]

3 hours ago, Khromak said:

@Silent Hill you're right I wasn't aware of how he ended up on the ground, but regardless if he was on the ground because he asked to be placed there, there's absolutely no need to hold his head on the ground while he's cuffed and you have 3 of your friends nearby, a taser, and a gun. Are you that afraid of being kicked by this handcuffed guy?

Sure, we can go over examples of white people being killed, I'm certain that it happens. But nothing is proven through anecdotes. That's why people use statistics instead of stories. The stories are only there to emphasize the point. I'm sure if there was a huge problem with people's ice cream melting we'd point to the temperatures outside, but also if you wanted to drive the point home to people, you'd probably point to a video of someone with melted ice cream on their hands, right?

OK so you say that the problem is with the number of involvements with police. Don't you think that's weird? That people of color are involved with the police more than whites? What do you think the reason for that is? Behind door 1: they're just worse people which causes them to be in contact with police more (definition of racism). Behind door 2: police are targeting them disproportionally (the topic of this discussion). If you've got another explanation I'm open to ideas.

Totally agree that once he was on the ground, the whole situation went to shit. That's where Chauvin sealed both of their fates. 

My only point was that his skin color had nothing to do with why he was placed/held on the ground. They initially tried to treat him like a "white guy", as you described.

Door #3 may hold a more reasonable point of data: Police patrol areas of crime more heavily than areas with lower crime, which makes total sense. A majority of these higher crime areas have a larger minority population. Now this can go down the rabbit hole of what's causing the high crime - high poverty/unemployment may increase theft/robbery crimes, gang activity increases drug-related crimes, homicides, etc. but I'm just looking at it from a high-level, statistical standpoint, not the reason(s) behind the volume of crime. That's an entirely different discussion.

Chicago, as an example: Population = ~50% white, ~30% black, ~20% other races.
Just looking at homicide data, ~75% of murder victims are black and ~71% of people committing those murders are also black. 
Police are patrolling these high-crime areas more heavily, which leads to interactions and skews the data and some people may view it as racially targeted, at face value.

Even where I live, ~30% of the population is black and ~60% of the homicide victims are also black. Black males are 14x more likely to be a victim of homicide than white males. I know very well where police patrol heavily in this city, and it's these high-crime areas. Not targeting race, but targeting areas of high-crime. It's just an unfortunate statistic that it's primarily areas that consist of a higher minority population. 

I don't share these to make a blanket statement that black people are "worse people" than other races, that's not at all what I'm trying to convey here. I'm also not trying to say that there are no cops who do target innocent people solely because of their race. I do think they exist, but are in the extreme minority. 

I'm just sharing why I believe the interactions, when broken down by race, are skewed compared to the population size. 

 

[fcgamer | 4,730]

Not sure where all this talk about ethnicity is coming from, ethnicity and race aren't the same thing.

[Silent Hill | 276]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

4 hours ago, Silent Hill said:

Lastly, consider that the discrepancy in use-of-force data by race is multi-factored, one factor being the number of police interactions per race. It's not a fair assumption to claim any, or the majority, use of force by police towards minorities is racially driven. 

The police and politicians decide which crimes they are going to go after. Police stations nationwide think it is more important to over-police poor colored communities, like when Eric Garner was killed for selling loose cigarettes, but the governement put's little to no effort in catching white collar criminals who are often educated and white. That is the definition of racist.

"The police and politicians decide which crimes they are going to go after" - Not sure what this has to do with my comment. I'm talking about police & public interactions, not court cases. 

Police do think it's more important to "over-police" poor colored communities high-crime areas. You're proving my point by solely focusing on the racial makeup of the area's population instead of the volume of crime as well. I'd be interested to see statistics around over-policing an area that has a high poverty/minority population but low-average crime. I think then you'd have a point of targeting by race/class. 

PS: Eric Garner wasn't killed for selling loose cigarettes. That is exceptionally dishonest. 

PPS: Is "colored" not a considered a derogatory term anymore?

[fcgamer | 4,730]

23 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

"The police and politicians decide which crimes they are going to go after" - Not sure what this has to do with my comment. I'm talking about police & public interactions, not court cases. 

Police do think it's more important to "over-police" poor colored communities high-crime areas. You're proving my point by solely focusing on the racial makeup of the area's population instead of the volume of crime as well. I'd be interested to see statistics around over-policing an area that has a high poverty/minority population but low-average crime. I think then you'd have a point of targeting by race/class. 

PS: Eric Garner wasn't killed for selling loose cigarettes. That is exceptionally dishonest. 

PPS: Is "colored" not a considered a derogatory term anymore?

Coloured is the correct term for mixed people in South Africa. It's not offensive there, despite what many here try to suggest

Interesting to see others using it now in the States

[Californication | 1,477]

14 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

"The police and politicians decide which crimes they are going to go after" - Not sure what this has to do with my comment. I'm talking about police & public interactions, not court cases. 

Police do think it's more important to "over-police" poor colored communities high-crime areas. You're proving my point by solely focusing on the racial makeup of the area's population instead of the volume of crime as well. I'd be interested to see statistics around over-policing an area that has a high poverty/minority population but low-average crime. I think then you'd have a point of targeting by race/class. 

PS: Eric Garner wasn't killed for selling loose cigarettes. That is exceptionally dishonest. 

PPS: Is "colored" not a considered a derogatory term anymore?

The first point is that from the onset the system is set up to focus on colored poor communities. And I say colored/poor because white/poor communities are not policied the same way. And it is irrational to spend so much resources on these poor communities because white collar crimes can harm way more people than many of the smaller crimes a "blue" collar criminal does.

You are saying these are high-crime areas. Police presence and arrests have a chicken and an egg relationship - if there are police there they will arrest people for minor things when they don't have anything else to do. If you listen to the last five minutes of the video I posted the speaker briefly mentions how what you are doing, using "statistics" to vilify people of color has historical roots from someome name Frederick Hoffman.

This is how black people get treated by the police. 

Eric Garner was stopped for selling loose cigarettes and a police officer choked him from behind and he died. Which part of that is incorrect?

Colored as well as black are not derogatory if you don't use them in a derogatory way. 

[fcgamer | 4,730]

7 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

and also conveniently ignoring that fact that you chose your situation, while many victims of racism, and especially systemic racism, did not. 

So it's only racist if you don't choose to move to the region where the discriminatory actions are happening? Is that's what is being said here?

So black people over here, who also experience heaps of prejudice, this also would not be considered racism? Or it would be racism at play?

 

[Californication | 1,477]

Here is another oldie but goodie. Cop pulled over a black person for being black and said the reason was they ran the tags and they didn't come back stolen. When he sees her ID he realizes shes the state attorney.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Californication

[phart010 | 1,708]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Coloured is the correct term for mixed people in South Africa. It's not offensive there, despite what many here try to suggest

Interesting to see others using it now in the States

I’ve actually discussed this in depth with one of my black co-workers. The conclusion is that different people have different ideas and feelings on the usage of different words. 
 

First, everyone unanimously agrees that the N-word is totally off limits, you can make an argument that some black people use it, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s use is regarded as derogatory. 
 

In general, with some exceptions, it is pretty much agreed that ‘black’ is the politically correct term. However, I worked in retail at a tobacco store long ago and would sometimes chat with customers and don’t remember how the conversation went, but I got called out for referring to a lady as black. She went to some length to explain that the color black is not an accurate description of the color of her skin.

I’ve always thought the word “colored” started to get used in American history as a more sensitive word choice. It appears to have been the governments word of choice as seen on old signs during the period of segregation, this was a time period when the alternative that a lot of people were using was the N-word. In any case, colored does seem to be more the more accurate word than black but it just didn’t stick.

African American was an attempt to turn color into an ethnicity. I think it was even considered the more politically correct word for a time. But one thing I learned (again got in trouble for ) is that not everyone appreciates being referred to as African American. Some black people just want to be called Americans. Some black people may not even identify with African heritage, they could be South American or European.

Edited April 22, 2021 by phart010

[fcgamer | 4,730]

41 minutes ago, phart010 said:

In general, with some exceptions, it is pretty much agreed that ‘black’ is the politically correct term.

This would be the case in the USA.

The exception definitely would be the South African usage though, those coloured guys definitely don't want to be called black.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

8 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

It absolutely is racist to ask to speak to someone who speaks English, when you are already speaking to someone who does, but it is not their first language. I don't even know how you can begin to make that argument. 

Okay, I agree with pretty much everything else you've written, but dude, wtf?!?  If I'm speaking with someone who speaks broken English and I'm getting frustrated/no where, I'm a racist if I ask to speak to someone I can communicate with more clearly? ..... WRONG!

I think this is what CodeMonkey was alluding to with his "it's not always racist" thing.  Apparantly, with Americans, it is literally ALWAYS ABOUT RACE!   Well up here in Canada, if I'm having a problem with a situation with another human being, and I seek to rectify the situation or make it better, it doesn't matter one iota what the race of the other person is, I'm seeking a solution to a problem and nothing more.  I hope, in some way, you, as an American, will some day begin to understand this concept.

[phart010 | 1,708]

15 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

This would be the case in the USA.

The exception definitely would be the South African usage though, those coloured guys definitely don't want to be called black.

Right, I was speaking more specifically about American black people. Was just piggybacking off of your post to keep the topic going 

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

46 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Okay, I agree with pretty much everything else you've written, but dude, wtf?!?  If I'm speaking with someone who speaks broken English and I'm getting frustrated/no where, I'm a racist if I ask to speak to someone I can communicate with more clearly? ..... WRONG!

I think this is what CodeMonkey was alluding to with his "it's not always racist" thing.  Apparantly, with Americans, it is literally ALWAYS ABOUT RACE!   Well up here in Canada, if I'm having a problem with a situation with another human being, and I seek to rectify the situation or make it better, it doesn't matter one iota what the race of the other person is, I'm seeking a solution to a problem and nothing more.  I hope, in some way, you, as an American, will some day begin to understand this concept.

Same point I was making. If the person is using a microphone that's all crackly and I can't understand them, I'm going to ask to speak to someone that can communicate more clearly. Same thing if their English is horrible, I'll ask to speak to someone that can communicate more clearly.

[KokiriChild | 1,644]

I think a big part of why the "let's not even bring up our differences and be nice to each other" policy doesn't work in reality is because its main purpose is to allow white people to avoid having uncomfortable conversations with or about people of color (or POC for short.) 

That is why there is such a push for race-focused discussions and better representation, diversity, and inclusion in so many areas of modern society.

I try and explain it in this example... it's kind of like if you were on a team at work, you all have the same job title and duties (on paper) but one group of people only do 30% of the work and get paid more money. Also the group that is doing 70% of the work gets yelled at by the boss a lot more often for no clear reason even though your true workplace violations are the same across the board. Now translate "workload"  and "money" to to opportunity/privilege and getting yelled at by the boss to getting stopped by the police. 

Sure, on paper you all have the same job and do the same amount/kinds of work, but if you go to argue that the workload and pay should be closer to equal, or that the boss seems to target you too often, your coworkers bring up the whole "I just am nice to everyone since we're all equals." You'd get annoyed, and sometimes, when life and death is involved, furiously angry too. 

That's the problem with a systemic issue. We're not talking about David Duke beta males with "No N-Word's Allowed" signs. We're talking about subtle ways even truly goodhearted people make racist actions or say racist things without even knowing it - because, unfortunately, we've been raised in a society that was literally built by racism. 

So I have learned to take these opportunities when people point out these things to not be personal attacks that "you're a racist!" And instead, when someone says "that's a racist thing to do/say" they are calling that action/saying racist, not you. That's where the term "casual racism" comes from. Take it as a learning opportunity to change for the better. Ignorance is not something to be ashamed of, as long as we choose to learn from it and try to be better. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by KokiriChild

[fcgamer | 4,730]

1 hour ago, KokiriChild said:

We're talking about subtle ways even truly goodhearted people make racist actions or say racist things without even knowing it - because, unfortunately, we've been raised in a society that was literally built by racism. 

This is not just in America though, it is literally everywhere! 

The whole "raised in a society literally built on racism" bit gets old, when other societies not "literally built on racism" have the same shit going on. Then when people refuse to even acknowledge the other racism as such, or make weak justifications as to why it doesn't count, it makes the whole thing seem just about agendas rather than what should be about addressing real problems.

[a3quit4s | 4,105]

I just started replaying GTAV and, from what I have learned in this thread, the game is racist and not racist at the same time. 

It's all very confusing.