Thank F*ck GUILTY

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

4 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Let the record show that they did a really bad job at assailing the capital. I think Best Buys got looted more effectively than the capital got assailed lol.

Depends on your definition of bad I guess. People died, were injured, sensitive documents/ Items were stolen, and tons of damage was done.  so other than that they did a shit job. 

[SailorScoutMandy | 782]

4 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I started writing a question like this 3 times and deleted it 3 times because I didn't want to start a riot. I'm also wondering what exactly happened because I don't really watch the news. IS it possible to discuss it without someone calling me names?

From the limited knowledge I have from seeing the news at the time it happened, this is what I know about it:

• A store owner called the police on suspicion that a man was trying to pass a counterfeit $20 bill in his store.
• The police arrived and confronted the man, George Floyd, of the federal crime.
• George offered no resistance but he's a beast of a man.
• The police handcuffed him and wrestled him to the ground with unnecessary force.
• A policeman kneeled on George's back. I think this is protocol but it appears he was kneeling too hard.
• George and others complained George could not breathe. From the video I saw, George was calm about it.
• Bystanders were telling the police he couldn't breathe and additional officers told the bystanders to move back.
• Eventually someone mentioned George is not breathing anymore and the police start feeling for a pulse, they seemed pretty spooked about what they should do next.

Did I miss something? Somehow people said it was racist but I didn't see any evidence of that, what did I miss? Is it automatically racist when a white person kills a black person? What about if a black person kills a white person? Sorry, I'm pretty far removed from any racist world so I don't really understand it. Where did the mention of racism in this case even come from? I'm actually curious because I don't understand.

You missed the fact that america sucks and has racism running wilding in this day and age. So yes, race is a part of this. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by SailorScoutMandy
A word

[Gloves | 11,796]

Just now, Khromak said:

The problem isn't any individual case, but in the statistics. People of color are disproportionally affected by this kind of police violence. So when things like this happen it seems (and probably is) racially motivated. I'm sure if I, a white guy, was accused of passing a $20 counterfeit, they wouldn't have tackled me to the ground and put their knee on my neck, they would've had a polite conversation with me. Under the same circumstances, whites are treated differently from blacks. There are hundreds of examples and, more importantly, it's substantiated by the data.

Odds are they'd not even think to check your $20 bill as a white guy.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

6 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I started writing a question like this 3 times and deleted it 3 times because I didn't want to start a riot. I'm also wondering what exactly happened because I don't really watch the news. IS it possible to discuss it without someone calling me names?

From the limited knowledge I have from seeing the news at the time it happened, this is what I know about it:

• A store owner called the police on suspicion that a man was trying to pass a counterfeit $20 bill in his store.
• The police arrived and confronted the man, George Floyd, of the federal crime.
• George offered no resistance but he's a beast of a man.
• The police handcuffed him and wrestled him to the ground with unnecessary force.
• A policeman kneeled on George's back. I think this is protocol but it appears he was kneeling too hard.
• George and others complained George could not breathe. From the video I saw, George was calm about it.
• Bystanders were telling the police he couldn't breathe and additional officers told the bystanders to move back.
• Eventually someone mentioned George is not breathing anymore and the police start feeling for a pulse, they seemed pretty spooked about what they should do next.

Did I miss something? Somehow people said it was racist but I didn't see any evidence of that, what did I miss? Is it automatically racist when a white person kills a black person? What about if a black person kills a white person? Sorry, I'm pretty far removed from any racist world so I don't really understand it. Where did the mention of racism in this case even come from? I'm actually curious because I don't understand.

Its not that cut and dry.
 

Its more about the systemic racism inherent in a country that was built on keeping other humans as property (among many other less terrible ideas)  I suggest you do research on your own, as its a nuanced argument. 

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

13 minutes ago, SailorScoutMandy said:

You missed the fact that america sucks and has racism running wilding in this day and age. So yes, race is a part of this. 

This is exactly what I thought was happening. People think:

1. I see lots of racism
2. This thing I'm seeing right now must be racist

That isn't logic. It could be mere coincidence that the guy the cop happened to kill was black, that precinct could have killed 2-3 white guys before this and it just never made the news. It's a major, major problem for thousands of people to riot in the streets, start gang fights and cause general mischief just because they assume this was racist. I'd rather look at the facts and fact is there's no evidence of racism here.

We should be mourning the loss of a person rather than a black person, why is that trait important? This guy was super tall, can I assume the cop is discriminatory against tall people? poundsigntalllivesmatter? He was a man, is the cop discriminatory against men? Bald people? People in pants? Granted I don't live in a world saturated with racism but it seems odd to me people would automatically assume this with no evidence at all.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Code Monkey

[Tulpa | 3,517]

19 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Let the record show that they did a really bad job at assailing the capital. I think Best Buys got looted more effectively than the capital got assailed lol.

Let me know when a Best Buy being looted makes it into the history books.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

1 minute ago, Code Monkey said:

This is exactly what I thought was happening. People think:

1. I see lots of racist
2. This thing I'm seeing right now must be racist

That isn't logic. It could be mere coincidence that the guy the cop happened to kill was black, that precinct could have killed 2-3 white guys before this and it just never made the news. It's a major, major problem for thousands of people to riot in the streets, start gang fights and cause general mischief just because they assume this was racist. I'd rather look at the facts and fact is there's no evidence of racism here.

We should be mourning the loss of a person rather than a black person, why is that trait important? This guy was super tall, can I assume the cop is discriminatory against tall people? poundsigntalllivesmatter? He was a man, is the cop discriminatory against men? Bald people? People in pants? Granted I don't live in a world saturated with racism but it seems odd to me people would automatically assume this with no evidence at all.

Dude, please quit while you're behind.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

2 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

This is exactly what I thought was happening. People think:

1. I see lots of racist
2. This thing I'm seeing right now must be racist

That isn't logic. It could be mere coincidence that the guy the cop happened to kill was black, that precinct could have killed 2-3 white guys before this and it just never made the news. It's a major, major problem for thousands of people to riot in the streets, start gang fights and cause general mischief just because they assume this was racist. I'd rather look at the facts and fact is there's no evidence of racism here.

We should be mourning the loss of a person rather than a black person, why is that trait important? This guy was super tall, can I assume the cop is discriminatory against tall people? poundsigntalllivesmatter? He was a man, is the cop discriminatory against men? Bald people? People in pants? Granted I don't live in a world saturated with racism but it seems odd to me people would automatically assume this with no evidence at all.

What would be required for this to be a racist act? Since you keep dropping snide remarks about the amazing, perfect non-racist utopia you live in. 
 

Im curious what you would consider “racist”, since you are someone who seemingly has never been exposed to it. 

[SailorScoutMandy | 782]

6 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

This is exactly what I thought was happening. People think:

1. I see lots of racism
2. This thing I'm seeing right now must be racist

That isn't logic. It could be mere coincidence that the guy the cop happened to kill was black, that precinct could have killed 2-3 white guys before this and it just never made the news. It's a major, major problem for thousands of people to riot in the streets, start gang fights and cause general mischief just because they assume this was racist. I'd rather look at the facts and fact is there's no evidence of racism here.

We should be mourning the loss of a person rather than a black person, why is that trait important? This guy was super tall, can I assume the cop is discriminatory against tall people? poundsigntalllivesmatter? He was a man, is the cop discriminatory against men? Bald people? People in pants? Granted I don't live in a world saturated with racism but it seems odd to me people would automatically assume this with no evidence at all.

Yea you just need to stop. Even as I was growing up I could see the fucking issues at hand. 

[Gloves | 11,796]

Dude lives in Alberta, I promise you he's surrounded by racism.

[Khromak | 769]

4 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I'd rather look at the facts and fact is there's no evidence of racism here.

I'm going to continue to assume you're coming from an honest place here and continue to try to inform.

Here's the problem with racism: people don't come out and say "I'm treating you differently because you're black." Unfortunately you can't prove someone's intent or their mindset, because we don't have mind reading technology yet.

When you see that police use violence at an increased rate against people of one race over other, you recognize there's a problem, and you have the evidence (the statistics). Then when it happens on camera, like with Mr. Floyd, you point at it and say "Hey look guys, it's that thing we keep telling you about! It's happening again!"

That's not to say that you can prove that this guy did this because he was black, because again...racists don't go around screaming "I'm doing this because you're black", but situations like these are rallying cries for people who want to see change.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

Here is all I can, and will, say about this. And will not be addressing the irony of what @RegularGuyGamer has said. Because that is no different than me talking to game investors who use HA about Japan's Super Mario Bros. 2. 

1) Dr. David Fowler is a Defendant in a case that accused him of hiding evidence in a police-related death that is similar to this one. And yes, the AP brought light to this the moment he took the stand. <- Link here.

2) "What happens when the heart doesn’t receive enough oxygen?" <- Link here.

"It’s important to understand how oxygen affects the heart. When the heart doesn’t receive enough oxygen, ischemia or angina can occur. Myocardial ischemia occurs when blood flow to the heart is reduced, which prevents it from receiving enough oxygen. However, myocardial ischemia is usually the result of a partial or complete blockage in the heart’s arteries and not from having a chronic lung disease. The most common symptom of myocardial ischemia is chest pressure and pain.

Angina is a term used for chest pain caused by reduced blood flow to the heart muscle, and it’s a symptom of coronary artery disease. The symptoms of angina include chest pain, shortness of breath, nausea, sweating dizziness and fatigue. The chest pain or discomfort associated with angina is usually described as pressure, squeezing, fullness or pain in the center of the chest."

3) A regular healthy person can hold their breath for a ~2 minutes. What Floyd experienced is similar to being dragged underwater and forced to hold their breath while dealing with a high-level of stress. Which means that Floyd died from both traumatic stress the heart could not take and a lack of much needed fresh oxygen it also needs.

4) Witnesses have stated, with proof, that both Chauvin and Floyd worked at the same club. One witness backtracked on the fact they both knew each other. Which eliminates the means of making this a first-degree murder case. Which would lead to the Prosecution proving the act was pre-meditated.

And finally...

5) The video alone shows that Chauvin expressed complete apathy while he pressed his knee on the back of Floyd's neck. The additional footage that leads up to this dictates that he should have called for back-up once Floyd was pinned down. And should have asked if Floyd was willing to cooperate. And be prepared if he didn't.

In the end, the actions leading up to this do not justify the results. Floyd's size alone required back up to be called with request having them bring a bigger vehicle. And the charges he was found guilty of will be seen light by those who have followed this case from day one.

Oh, and I have followed the case. I also listened to actual legal experts who were discussing what both sides did right and wrong. Hence why I tried to keep this as light as possible. 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

6 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Dude lives in Alberta, I promise you he's surrounded by racism.

However, he is also ignoring what those who have worked with Chauvin at the same club Floyd also worked at has said. And they said he was "afraid" of black people.

Which is an anecdote many racists use regardless of race. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by FenrirZero

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

2 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Dude lives in Alberta, I promise you he's surrounded by racism.

I'm from Newfoundland which, I admit, is quite different than Calgary.

1 minute ago, Khromak said:

I'm going to continue to assume you're coming from an honest place here and continue to try to inform.

Here's the problem with racism: people don't come out and say "I'm treating you differently because you're black." Unfortunately you can't prove someone's intent or their mindset, because we don't have mind reading technology yet.

When you see that police use violence at an increased rate against people of one race over other, you recognize there's a problem, and you have the evidence (the statistics). Then when it happens on camera, like with Mr. Floyd, you point at it and say "Hey look guys, it's that thing we keep telling you about! It's happening again!"

That's not to say that you can prove that this guy did this because he was black, because again...racists don't go around screaming "I'm doing this because you're black", but situations like these are rallying cries for people who want to see change.

That's actually very informative, thanks. I still think it's irrational to riot because of it but I guess that makes sense. I didn't know there was such a difference with how the police treated people, I just thought they were jerks to everyone equally.

I don't think it's fair to say, "This guy was racist" but maybe one could say, "This is an indication of the racism we've seen in the past." That would make more sense, I don't think it's fair to project that past racism on this guy when we don't know for sure. I can't defend the guy but I just like to assume the good in people rather than the bad. Until proven otherwise.

That's all I was curious about, thanks for the discussion. I'm done here.

3 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

However, he is also ignoring what those who have worked with Chauvin at the same club Floyd also worked at has said. And they said he was "afraid" of black people.

Which is an anecdote many racists use regardless of race. 

I didn't know that. It's still not evidence because it's hearsay of someone else's hearsay but it is interesting to know. Thanks.

[phart010 | 1,708]

29 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

So you don’t know. Got it.

The reason it is not relevant is because they were in the heat of the moment at that point. You have to give some allowance for humans making mistakes in the heat of the moment.
 

However, when the cops snapped to their senses and they realized that they should call for help, they should also be doing what they were trained to do, ie CPR, chest compressions. They had the tools and the training to do the life-saving and at that point they were aware that it was needed, but they just sat around allowed his blood to stop flowing. At worst, intent... at best negligence.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

2 minutes ago, phart010 said:

The reason it is not relevant is because they were in the heat of the moment at that point. You have to give some allowance for humans making mistakes in the heat of the moment.
 

However, when the cops snapped to their senses and they realized that they should call for help, they should also be doing what they were trained to do, ie CPR, chest compressions. They had the tools and the training to do the life-saving and at that point they were aware that it was needed, but they just sat around allowed his blood to stop flowing. At worst, intent... at best negligence.

I mean, its a yes or no question. I dont really care about the relevancy, just if what I heard was factually correct or not. 

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

(> '–')>

Remember Kirby emoticons guys?

...

Just me? OK.

 

Uh, yeah let's take a step back and maybe just practice some of that cancel culture and just cancel the whole thread. This is no doubt going to be a clusterfuck soon.

 

[Strange | 1,700]

@Code MonkeyI’m trying to reply to you without any snide remarks or annoyance in my words but it’s hard because everything you’re saying is so off base. I’m going to chalk it up to ignorance (and hope that’s the case) and address it as such.

You say you live in Canada. You admit to being ignorant of what’s going on down here, so I’ll fill you in. The police culture in the United States has/is a huge problem. I say that as someone who has been close friends with many police officers throughout the years, so I’m not “just biased.” Individual investigations and watch dog groups find evidence of things like quotas, planting evidence (such as drugs), excessive or unnecessary force, and yes, racist policing practices. Former officers report these things. Despite being a smaller overall portion in our country, African Americans are disproportionately affected by unwarranted police attention and often aggression. This is without even bringing other minority groups into the equation such as Hispanic people, but I’m sure you can guess the numbers don’t swing in favor of the police. Yes, the police still undeservedly attack white people in the United States too (this fact only strengthens the idea that police are in need of reform, not sure why pro-police people repeat this ad nauseam). But nowhere near the proportion at which they target minorities. People can ignore the data all they want but it’s there. I can go on and on about the issues with policing in America (such as some departments rejecting potential recruits for having too high of a GPA) but ill be shocked if anyone reads this entire post as it’s long enough already.

Ultimately, this protest wasn’t just about George Floyd. It’s a response to the fact that we as Americans have seen this thing happen again, and again, and again, and again, and again, damn near regularly since people started carrying small computers with cameras in their pockets. But it didn’t start recently. African Americans have been saying that this has been happening to them for decades, and it’s taken video evidence like Floyd’s murder for us to start listening. It’s not just about race (although that is a huge part that shouldn’t be ignored), it’s about putting a stop to police brutality in our country, which is, objectively, an issue here.

[SailorScoutMandy | 782]

Finally a president that can use real words

 

 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

2 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I didn't know that. It's still not evidence because it's hearsay of someone else's hearsay but it is interesting to know. Thanks.

Not a problemo. And (edited) I have experienced things, first hand, where people said things about me that were believed. Even when the evidence is posted in the same topic. It has become one of those cases that currently has me fact-check before I make a conclusion.

1 hour ago, ThePhleo said:

(> '–')>

Remember Kirby emoticons guys?

...

Just me? OK.

 

Uh, yeah let's take a step back and maybe just practice some of that cancel culture and just cancel the whole thread. This is no doubt going to be a clusterfuck soon.

 

How dare you bring Kirby into this! You sir are guilty of being ThePhleo. And your punishment is to sit in a comfy chair and play a relaxing video game while this plays out!

And yes, we all need to calm down. Just as much as I need to spend time in a sane location (offline).

Edited April 21, 2021 by FenrirZero

[Strange | 1,700]

I echo the sentiment earlier in the thread that I have no desire to argue about this stuff on a video game forum (same reason I’ve been in the politics and COVID thread less) but I’ll leave with this.

I’m a white dude who grew up in the South. I have never personally experienced discrimination, but I have hung out with friends of different races and watched it happen in front of my eyes. It’s a disgusting feeling walking around a store and having the sweet elderly couple who smiled at you on the way in follow your black friend around the entire time with a stern look. And that’s just one of many instances I can recall. It’s not an uncommon thing, and it’s happened in the northeast as well. Racism is still very alive and well in the United States, it didn’t die with MLK like our textbooks teach us it did.

[B.A. | 1,139]

Chauvin's reactions and demeanor are disturbing.  Both while he is killing a guy and while he is being found guilty of murder he just sits there stone-faced like an unfeeling robot. 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

1 hour ago, B.A. said:

Chauvin's reactions and demeanor are disturbing.  Both while he is killing a guy and while he is being found guilty of murder he just sits there stone-faced like an unfeeling robot. 

A part of me wonders if that is his sex face. And if it is, he should have gone into porn instead becoming a police officer. 

[fcgamer | 4,730]

4 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

This is exactly what I thought was happening. People think:

1. I see lots of racism
2. This thing I'm seeing right now must be racist

That isn't logic. It could be mere coincidence that the guy the cop happened to kill was black, that precinct could have killed 2-3 white guys before this and it just never made the news. It's a major, major problem for thousands of people to riot in the streets, start gang fights and cause general mischief just because they assume this was racist. I'd rather look at the facts and fact is there's no evidence of racism here.

We should be mourning the loss of a person rather than a black person, why is that trait important? This guy was super tall, can I assume the cop is discriminatory against tall people? poundsigntalllivesmatter? He was a man, is the cop discriminatory against men? Bald people? People in pants? Granted I don't live in a world saturated with racism but it seems odd to me people would automatically assume this with no evidence at all.

I'm with you on this one.

After living ten years in a country where I am in the minority in terms of ethnicity, race, and religion, I've experienced discrimination so many times, and involving so many things. From how I'm referred to, to bank loans, lack of holiday pay, having to pay to use the bus whilst others don't, etc. It's never ending. Racism is alive and well here too.

With that being said, do I think every single incident that happens to me is done due to racial prejudices? Honestly, no I don't, though similarly there are times that likely are 100% racially driven.

 

 

[Sumez | 2,968]

  

7 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

Did I miss something? Somehow people said it was racist but I didn't see any evidence of that, what did I miss?

Chauvin was not found guilty of racism, he was found guilty of second and third degree murder.

Like @Khromak says though, there's no denying the racial profiling going on with the way the police handles cases like this in USA. I'm not from there either, but even then it's impossible for me to be blind to all the information that escapes from there. And it's not like they are the only place with problems like this either. I have plenty friends who live in the US, and I have heard more than enough scary stories. I think you can ask almost any black person who lives in the affected areas, and they'd tell you not just that it's true, but how could you even doubt that it's true.

You can take individual cases such as this and say nothing specifically paints the actions as "racist" outside of the races of the involved people. And of course, that's a big part of what has allowed stuff like that to go on - "proving" racism legally can be very difficult and occasionally impossible.
I can't 100% prove that Chauvin wouldn't have been acting equally irresponsible towards a white person, how could I. The guy is obviously a horrible person either way.
But three things I want to take away from this is that
1. These things irrefutably do happen on a basis of race
2. What's even the point in trying to deny that an obviously racist action had anything to do with race?
3. Police officers acting like this is a massive problem no matter the race of the victim anyway. Even if a huge majority of the victims of police brutality being black is a weird coincidence, it kinda still needs to stop.