Thank F*ck GUILTY

[fcgamer | 4,774]

15 minutes ago, Californication said:

Were you born in Taiwan?

That's irrelevant to the subject of racism.

[Californication | 1,490]

22 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

That's irrelevant to the subject of racism.

It's not irrelevant. You're statement is stupid and slightly offensive.

You did not grow up a minority and did not face the disadvantages in life that a minority faces and are claiming that status. For someone that teaches english you have a pretty bad grasp of language and context.

And lets be clear being a minority doesn't automatically make someone not racist. 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Californication

[KokiriChild | 1,644]

6 hours ago, fcgamer said:

As a minority myself (white guy in predominantly Han-dominated Taiwan), I personally don't want people "bringing up our differences" or "celebrating our differences" or whatever the other guy said a few pages back. All I want is to be treated with respect and leave it at that. Other people in the minority that I know over here feel similarly.

We shouldn't be looking for and then celebrating the differences amongst people, and I honestly don't believe that other people really want that either.

Choosing to move to a country where you are a minority and being born as a minority in your own birth country are not even close to comparable, my friend. A black American cannot choose to stop being black. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

7 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I definitely would rather people look at me for the human I am and my accomplishments, rather than my race and ethnicity

Once again, you are looking at everything so cut and dry. Did you actually know, that it is possible to do BOTH? GASP

Please read a few of these articles so you can see why it's actually an important part of tolerance and equity to learn about and celebrate diversity, culture, ethnics, etc.

https://diversity.appstate.edu/celebration/why/#:~:text=Cultural celebrations foster respect and,helps unite and educate us.&text=People all around need to,one way to accomplish that.

https://www.eacs.wa.edu.au/2019/02/4-reasons-why-its-important-to-celebrate-diversity/

Here's an article for kids if you need layman;'s terms:
https://www.connecting4kids.com.au/our-approaches/celebrate-culture/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-empathy/201907/why-we-need-diversity

[phart010 | 1,709]

17 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Once again, you are looking at everything so cut and dry. Did you actually know, that it is possible to do BOTH? GASP

Please read a few of these articles so you can see why it's actually an important part of tolerance and equity to learn about and celebrate diversity, culture, ethnics, etc.

https://diversity.appstate.edu/celebration/why/#:~:text=Cultural celebrations foster respect and,helps unite and educate us.&text=People all around need to,one way to accomplish that.

https://www.eacs.wa.edu.au/2019/02/4-reasons-why-its-important-to-celebrate-diversity/

Here's an article for kids if you need layman;'s terms:
https://www.connecting4kids.com.au/our-approaches/celebrate-culture/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-empathy/201907/why-we-need-diversity

No disrespect but these types of things that you linked to are not exactly what society has an agreed consensus on as far as maximum effectiveness. They may have come from a place of good intentions, but they are actually experimental based on progressive ideology and still have a possibility of proving to be ineffective. Kind of like common core for developmental mathematics.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

Just now, phart010 said:

No disrespect but these types of things that you linked to are not exactly what society has an agreed consensus on as far as maximum effectiveness. They may have come from a place of good intentions, but they are actually experimental based on progressive ideology and still have a possibility of proving to be ineffective. Kind of like common core for developmental mathematics.

Ok, can you please provide some sources on what 'society has an agreed consensus on as far as maximum effectiveness"?

Anyone ever notice how some people use the word progressive negatively? Like they don't want... ya know... progress? 

[fcgamer | 4,774]

32 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Once again, you are looking at everything so cut and dry. Did you actually know, that it is possible to do BOTH? GASP

Please read a few of these articles so you can see why it's actually an important part of tolerance and equity to learn about and celebrate diversity, culture, ethnics, etc.

https://diversity.appstate.edu/celebration/why/#:~:text=Cultural celebrations foster respect and,helps unite and educate us.&text=People all around need to,one way to accomplish that.

https://www.eacs.wa.edu.au/2019/02/4-reasons-why-its-important-to-celebrate-diversity/

Here's an article for kids if you need layman;'s terms:
https://www.connecting4kids.com.au/our-approaches/celebrate-culture/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-empathy/201907/why-we-need-diversity

I'll take a look at those in a bit, thanks.

 

[phart010 | 1,709]

12 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Ok, can you please provide some sources on what 'society has an agreed consensus on as far as maximum effectiveness"?

Anyone ever notice how some people use the word progressive negatively? Like they don't want... ya know... progress? 

 No, I think my comment is good enough as it is. We’re talking about subjective material, so there will not be any proving of anything from anyone. I don’t think your asking me to try and change your mind, and I’m not in the mood to jump through hoops right now. Peace

Edited April 23, 2021 by phart010

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

Just now, phart010 said:

We’re talking about subjective material, so there will not be any proving of anything from anyone. 

lol... but you said there was this consensus approved by society for maximum effectiveness??? Just trying to figure out what that is because you could end this thread with a good source on that. 

Unless it's just bullshit because you disagree with me, of course.

[phart010 | 1,709]

1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said:

lol... but you said there was this consensus approved by society for maximum effectiveness??? Just trying to figure out what that is because you could end this thread with a good source on that. 

Unless it's just bullshit because you disagree with me, of course.

I used the common core math as an example. Sounded like a good idea in the beginning, a lot of places adopted it, turned out to be a train wreck, now a lot of places are phasing it out and apologizing to teenagers that don’t know how to do math

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

Just now, phart010 said:

I used the common core math as an example. Sounded like a good idea in the beginning, a lot of places adopted it, turned out to be a train wreck, now a lot of places are phasing it out and apologizing to teenagers that don’t know how to do math

I don't see what that has to do with celebrating diversity/race/ethnicity. You've made no effort or attempt to backup your claim that doing so is a bad, no-no, progressive idea that is ineffective/ doesn't work.

It's because you are wrong of course. However like I said, if you can provide a SOURCE for me to review, so I could take a look at these agreed upon ideas by society that are so effective, MAXIMUM effectiveness, I'd love to review. Like seriously, I didn't realize there was some consensus agreed upon by society that works. Show me that source please.

Or... will you just admit that was bullshit because you disagree with me?

[phart010 | 1,709]

Just now, CodysGameRoom said:

I don't see what that has to do with celebrating diversity/race/ethnicity. You've made no effort or attempt to backup your claim that doing so is a bad, no-no, progressive idea that is ineffective/ doesn't work.

It's because you are wrong of course. However like I said, if you can provide a SOURCE for me to review, so I could take a look at these agreed upon ideas by society that are so effective, MAXIMUM effectiveness, I'd love to review. Like seriously, I didn't realize there was some consensus agreed upon by society that works. Show me that source please.

Or... will you just admit that was bullshit because you disagree with me?

Ok good job you have won the argument. You are right and I am wrong

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

17 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Ok good job you have won the argument. You are right and I am wrong

Just asking for a source man. I don't think that's too much to ask. 

Edit: I tried googling some stuff like "why is celebrating diversity wrong?" or "Is celebrating diversity bad?", and "bad progressive diversity ideas" and I found next to nothing. 

I went out on a limb and googled "society's agreed upon consensus for dealing with race" but nada.

Edited April 23, 2021 by CodysGameRoom

[Richardhead | 2,856]

Guy literally gives up, congratulates you and says you are right.

You continue to ask for a source

[Khromak | 771]

9 minutes ago, Richardhead said:

Guy literally gives up, congratulates you and says you are right.

You continue to ask for a source

Who's the real Richardhead here, am I right?!

[fcgamer | 4,774]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Once again, you are looking at everything so cut and dry. Did you actually know, that it is possible to do BOTH? GASP

Please read a few of these articles so you can see why it's actually an important part of tolerance and equity to learn about and celebrate diversity, culture, ethnics, etc.

https://diversity.appstate.edu/celebration/why/#:~:text=Cultural celebrations foster respect and,helps unite and educate us.&text=People all around need to,one way to accomplish that.

https://www.eacs.wa.edu.au/2019/02/4-reasons-why-its-important-to-celebrate-diversity/

Here's an article for kids if you need layman;'s terms:
https://www.connecting4kids.com.au/our-approaches/celebrate-culture/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-empathy/201907/why-we-need-diversity

Alright just read the articles, I actually agree with the points provided, in those contexts.

It may surprise you but when I was in university I was heavily involved in our international student organisation, some fifteen years ago. We hosted dinners to celebrate diversity, I went to numerous conferences discussing said topics, etc. Iirc, I was even the vice president of the organisation at one point. I was also involved in other groups relating to diversity too, whilst on campus.

At the same time though, only a small portion of the minority students would actually be active participants in the group. Generally, at the first meeting, the international affairs office would encourage everyone from abroad to attend, but from the second meeting forward, only a small handful of people stuck around. The reason? Our differences should be celebrated, but there's a time and a place for it.

For a lot of those folks, they just want to fit in the best they can with the locals, learn about the local culture, and then possibly share select facets of their own culture with their close circle of friends, in a more natural way. 

 

[fcgamer | 4,774]

2 hours ago, Californication said:

It's not irrelevant. You're statement is stupid and slightly offensive.

You did not grow up a minority and did not face the disadvantages in life that a minority faces and are claiming that status. For someone that teaches english you have a pretty bad grasp of language and context.

And lets be clear being a minority doesn't automatically make someone not racist. 

 

Just gonna throw this out there, I mean no disrespect but people like you are poor ambassadors for solving the situation surrounding racism.

Not, you are right, I didn't grow up as a minority but I did grow up poor. Yes, I chose to move somewhere else to live, but that shouldn't discount the fact that from making the move, I instantly became a minority, illiterate, etc., and have experienced prejudice based on my skin colour and ethnicity.

I realise that the majority of people visiting VGS are Americans, but it doesn't mean that racism is only occuring and should only be discussed in terms of American viewpoints. 

For example, CodeMonkey mentioned something about not being experienced with racism as a Canadian, and this was immediately shot down due to the prejudice s occuring in Canada due to the native groups, I imagine.

Yet I bring up racism in Taiwan, no go, because I chose to move here myself.

That leads us to the folks immigrating to the States and getting harassed due to their poor English ability. Suddenly it's all about race (though here we are mixing up race and ethnicity). Those folks chose to immigrate to the States though, wasn't it stated earlier that it only counts if you were born into it in your home country? I mean, surely those immigrants can leave and stop being minorities too, right?

And the examples go on and on and on, just like the energizer bunny. You may personally only be concerned about certain kinds of racism, but ultimately we should be working to try to improve situations for everyone in the unfortunate position of being prejudiced or discriminated against, right? Not discounting and trying to silence some narratives.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

49 minutes ago, Richardhead said:

Guy literally gives up, congratulates you and says you are right.

You continue to ask for a source

Hey didn't really though. I'm sure you can read between the lines and understand context.

Edited April 23, 2021 by CodysGameRoom

[Khromak | 771]

2 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Hey didn't really though. I'm sure you can read between the lines and understand context.

I think we've made it abundantly clear by now that nobody can read or understand context on the internet.

I believe @fcgamer has a point though, while it's a different kind of racism and it didn't affect his entire upbringing, it is still real racism and shouldn't be thrown out of the window because it's happening to an adult or because he volunteered for it.

You have to consider how it sounds when compared to the systemic stuff happening in the US (and other countries I'm sure). Kids are growing up with significantly worse infrastructure, education, job opportunities, social safety nets, etc. and then have worse outcomes for generations and are stuck in a feedback loop. That's a bit more impactful and harder to solve than the acts of individuals on you as a foreigner.

I still think they're both wrong and we need to resolve both, and I don't mean to minimize your experience, only to put it into context and explain why others are jumping down your throat for comparing the two.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

31 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Alright just read the articles, I actually agree with the points provided, in those contexts.

At the same time though, only a small portion of the minority students would actually be active participants in the group. Generally, at the first meeting, the international affairs office would encourage everyone from abroad to attend, but from the second meeting forward, only a small handful of people stuck around. The reason? Our differences should be celebrated, but there's a time and a place for it.

For a lot of those folks, they just want to fit in the best they can with the locals, learn about the local culture, and then possibly share select facets of their own culture with their close circle of friends, in a more natural way. 

Never said there wasn't a good time and place for it. There is for everything. I also never said I wanted to force anyone to do so in a way they aren't comfortable with.

So if we're in agreement here, I don't know why you're so combative about it. 

11 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I realise that the majority of people visiting VGS are Americans

Not only that but I'd bet dollars to donuts 95% of VGS is white males. No wonder there's such a lack of understanding regarding these topics around here. 

 

 

 

[Richardhead | 2,856]

10 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Hey didn't really though. I'm sure you can read between the lines and understand context.

Do you have a source ?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

Just now, Richardhead said:

Do you have a source ?

I submitted multiple links earlier in this thread backing up my position on things. They are on this very same page. Happy to debate if you have alternate viewpoints. 

But you can troll me too, that's fine.

[Californication | 1,490]

43 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Just gonna throw this out there, I mean no disrespect but people like you are poor ambassadors for solving the situation surrounding racism.

Not, you are right, I didn't grow up as a minority but I did grow up poor. Yes, I chose to move somewhere else to live, but that shouldn't discount the fact that from making the move, I instantly became a minority, illiterate, etc., and have experienced prejudice based on my skin colour and ethnicity.

I realise that the majority of people visiting VGS are Americans, but it doesn't mean that racism is only occuring and should only be discussed in terms of American viewpoints. 

For example, CodeMonkey mentioned something about not being experienced with racism as a Canadian, and this was immediately shot down due to the prejudice s occuring in Canada due to the native groups, I imagine.

Yet I bring up racism in Taiwan, no go, because I chose to move here myself.

That leads us to the folks immigrating to the States and getting harassed due to their poor English ability. Suddenly it's all about race (though here we are mixing up race and ethnicity). Those folks chose to immigrate to the States though, wasn't it stated earlier that it only counts if you were born into it in your home country? I mean, surely those immigrants can leave and stop being minorities too, right?

And the examples go on and on and on, just like the energizer bunny. You may personally only be concerned about certain kinds of racism, but ultimately we should be working to try to improve situations for everyone in the unfortunate position of being prejudiced or discriminated against, right? Not discounting and trying to silence some narratives.

I don't have the time to go back and look at all the posts where you had the opposing view of minorities so we can just look at this post. 

You are calling yourself a minority. 

On my fathers side I am the second generation off of a reservation. My grandfather was in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam because being in the military was one of the few ways that minorites could try and get ahead.

My other grandfather was first generation hispanic and was refused work because of his ethnicity. He joined the military and served in Germany during peacetime. He later worked the night shift for decades and was pulled over every week for decades on his way back from work by the police to ask if he was out drinking.

And this is the basis of where my family started and what I had to build on to get ahead. So when you want to come in here and say your little racist things and talk about how your a minority you are being offensive because you have no idea what it takes to get ahead as a minority. 

If I thought half the stupid things you say as a minority I would be homeless.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Californication

[Richardhead | 2,856]

27 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I submitted multiple links earlier in this thread backing up my position on things. They are on this very same page. Happy to debate if you have alternate viewpoints. 

But you can troll me too, that's fine.

Oh no. I read these threads. I know your view points. I’m asking for a source about dude not saying your were right and he was wrong. It was pretty clear as day what I read.

[Silent Hill | 276]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

Ok good job you have won the argument. You are right and I am wrong

Just asking for a source man. I don't think that's too much to ask. 

Edit: I tried googling some stuff like "why is celebrating diversity wrong?" or "Is celebrating diversity bad?", and "bad progressive diversity ideas" and I found next to nothing. 

I went out on a limb and googled "society's agreed upon consensus for dealing with race" but nada.

You can find a bunch of articles/studies on why diversity programs fail/backfire and it primarily seems to be based on how the program/content is delivered. Of course diversity is important and a good thing, but the content and delivery can have a negative impact if done incorrectly.