Thank F*ck GUILTY

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

11 hours ago, B.A. said:

Chauvin's reactions and demeanor are disturbing.  Both while he is killing a guy and while he is being found guilty of murder he just sits there stone-faced like an unfeeling robot. 

I'm surprised more people didn't pick up on that. It was unsettling to say the least.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

14 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

Sorry, I'm pretty far removed from any racist world so I don't really understand it.

Really? I mean, for starters, there's a god damn wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Canada

How about this? 
https://www.un.org/en/chronicle/article/discrimination-aboriginals-native-lands-canada

This one?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/point-of-view-kerry-benjoe-racism-george-floyd-canada-indigenous-1.5632918

Sorry but if you are really that far removed, it's willful ignorance at this point. It's your duty as a citizen of the world to understand what is going on in the world around you. Then it's up to you to either fight for what is right or to turn a blind eye. 

Also, calling protesters "crazies" and "gangs" is a pretty racist thing to do. Just an FYI. 

[fcgamer | 4,730]

22 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Really? I mean, for starters, there's a god damn wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Canada

How about this? 
https://www.un.org/en/chronicle/article/discrimination-aboriginals-native-lands-canada

This one?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/point-of-view-kerry-benjoe-racism-george-floyd-canada-indigenous-1.5632918

Sorry but if you are really that far removed, it's willful ignorance at this point. It's your duty as a citizen of the world to understand what is going on in the world around you. Then it's up to you to either fight for what is right or to turn a blind eye. 

Also, calling protesters "crazies" and "gangs" is a pretty racist thing to do. Just an FYI. 

Time to join the good fight in stamping out racism in Taiwan, or at least to recognise it for what it is, even if it is against white people, amongst other skin colours.

[Foochie776 | 1,056]

13 hours ago, B.A. said:

Chauvin's reactions and demeanor are disturbing.  Both while he is killing a guy and while he is being found guilty of murder he just sits there stone-faced like an unfeeling robot. 

Horribly disturbing 

[ZeldaFan042 | 1,181]

15 hours ago, Khromak said:

I'm sure if I, a white guy, was accused of passing a $20 counterfeit, they wouldn't have tackled me to the ground and put their knee on my neck, they would've had a polite conversation with me.

I can confirm this. The man that was just elected mayor of my town was a white college hockey player who was caught counterfeiting. He was charged with aggravated forgery, plead guilty, only received 40 hours of community service, and received no felony on his criminal record. 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/government-and-politics/4916532-Brandon-Bochenski-says-he-has-moved-on-from-2001-counterfeiting-incident

  

15 hours ago, Gloves said:

Odds are they'd not even think to check your $20 bill as a white guy.

Also true.

Edited April 21, 2021 by ZeldaFan042

[Khromak | 769]

43 minutes ago, ZeldaFan042 said:

I can confirm this. The man that was just elected mayor of my town was a white college hockey player who was caught counterfeiting. He was charged with aggravated forgery, plead guilty, only received 40 hours of community service, and received no felony on his criminal record. 

Now that's not a fair comparison though, to be honest. He was actually taking part in the counterfeiting, not just passing off a single bill which could have easily been from another transaction he took place in. This guy was clearly demonstrably more at-fault than George Floyd. He got a public office for it instead though. It really pays to be one of the good ones. I'll bet he's never done drugs either. Real paragon of society here, not like that sewer rat George Floyd. Did you see how scary he was?!

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Time to join the good fight in stamping out racism in Taiwan, or at least to recognise it for what it is, even if it is against white people, amongst other skin colours.

Dave, Nobody is biting. Please don’t apply your eastern view of morality into our western discussion, you just dont understand.

[fcgamer | 4,730]

25 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Dave, Nobody is biting. Please don’t apply your eastern view of morality into our western discussion, you just dont understand.

Hey, Cody mentioned world affairs of racism when addressing CodeMonkey, right? But as we all know, only certain types of racism do people get up in arms about, oddly enough. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

20 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Hey, Cody mentioned world affairs of racism when addressing CodeMonkey, right? But as we all know, only certain types of racism do people get up in arms about, oddly enough. 

You're taking things said way out of context, and also conveniently ignoring that fact that you chose your situation, while many victims of racism, and especially systemic racism, did not. 

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

2 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Really? I mean, for starters, there's a god damn wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Canada

How about this? 
https://www.un.org/en/chronicle/article/discrimination-aboriginals-native-lands-canada

This one?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/point-of-view-kerry-benjoe-racism-george-floyd-canada-indigenous-1.5632918

Sorry but if you are really that far removed, it's willful ignorance at this point. It's your duty as a citizen of the world to understand what is going on in the world around you. Then it's up to you to either fight for what is right or to turn a blind eye. 

Also, calling protesters "crazies" and "gangs" is a pretty racist thing to do. Just an FYI. 

Yes, it is willful ignorance, I prefer to just be nice to everyone and I don't really notice different races, I guess I just live in a different world. It certainly is not my duty to involve myself in any of that.

Ha, oh wow, calling people crazy is racist? Exactly which race was I making fun of? Those people protesting in the streets weren't all one race, it looked to be a large mix of people from many different cultures and nations so I'm really not sure how you took my comment of calling a group of people crazy as racist. I guess that's how it happens in your world and that's why I don't understand it. I also didn't even mention the word gangs, where did you get gangs? Did you make that up?

I think people are way too quick to label something as racism when it isn't. I know people that flip out when they call a company for support and get some foreigner that has horrible English skills. They get frustrated and ask to speak to someone that speaks English, then they get called racist. That's not racist, that's just being frustrated with poor communication. If I had to try and communicate with a deaf white guy that used sign language (not on the phone), I'd get frustrated and ask for someone that speaks English. People need to stop jumping to racism all the time, it's not a solution to everything. Not all negative behaviour towards someone is racism.

[Gloves | 11,798]

8 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I also didn't even mention the word gangs, where did you get gangs? Did you make that up?

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

4 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Ah, I get it. I didn't mean people would start gang fights, I meant gangs that are already gangs would fight. I saw some weird things on the little news I did watch, it seemed excessive.

[Hammerfestus | 3,861]

Is this like that time you didn’t know what MySpace was or whatever it was?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

16 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I prefer to just be nice to everyone

Part of being nice to everyone is learning the hardships they go through so you can sympathize with them, not being willfully ignorant to them.

16 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I don't really notice different races

This is another problem. Different races should be noticed and should be celebrated. 

18 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I guess I just live in a different world.

You don't. You live in the same world where people have to endure these hardships. It might make you feel better to be willfully ignorant of them but it doesn't change that they happen.

19 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I also didn't even mention the word gangs, where did you get gangs? Did you make that up?

Yea, you did... and it was used with racist connotations. I'm not saying you meant to. But it happened.

19 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I think people are way too quick to label something as racism when it isn't.

That's not for you to decide.

21 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I know people that flip out when they call a company for support and get some foreigner that has horrible English skills. They get frustrated and ask to speak to someone that speaks English, then they get called racist. That's not racist

It absolutely is racist to ask to speak to someone who speaks English, when you are already speaking to someone who does, but it is not their first language. I don't even know how you can begin to make that argument. 

22 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

People need to stop jumping to racism all the time, it's not a solution to everything.

I don't even know what this sentence means. Do you mean its not an explanation? Because it usually is. How would you know if you are so willfully ignorant to it?

 

23 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Not all negative behaviour towards someone is racism.

Literally no one here is claiming that. 

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

16 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

This is another problem. Different races should be noticed and should be celebrated. 

I disagree. I view racism as treating someone differently solely based on their race and if you're celebrating someone based on race, even if it's positive, that's racism. I believe we shouldn't address someone's race in any way, just treat everyone the same way at all times and completely ignore anything that makes them stand out. We shouldn't try to avoid it but we certainly shouldn't point it out. Not unless you're also going to celebrate tall people and blond people and skinny people and fat people. I don't know why race is different, it's just another human trait that isn't any more nor less important than any other human trait.

Or maybe I just don't get it.

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

12 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I disagree. I view racism as treating someone differently solely based on their race and if you're celebrating someone based on race, even if it's positive, that's racism. I believe we shouldn't address someone's race in any way, just treat everyone the same way at all times and completely ignore anything that makes them stand out. We shouldn't try to avoid it but we certainly shouldn't point it out. Not unless you're also going to celebrate tall people and blond people and skinny people and fat people. I don't know why race is different, it's just another human trait that isn't any more nor less important than any other human trait.

Or maybe I just don't get it.

I also disagree with that sentiment, but from a different perspective. Race/ethnicity/culture/etc should be acknowledged, accepted, and respected. Not celebrated.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

33 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I view racism as treating someone differently solely based on their race and if you're celebrating someone based on race, even if it's positive, that's racism.

Ok I mean if you want to make up definitions to words in the dictionary that's your choice. But racism is defined as antagonistic or prejudiced in nature. 

36 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I believe we shouldn't address someone's race in any way, just treat everyone the same way at all times and completely ignore anything that makes them stand out. We shouldn't try to avoid it but we certainly shouldn't point it out. Not unless you're also going to celebrate tall people and blond people and skinny people and fat people. I don't know why race is different, it's just another human trait that isn't any more nor less important than any other human trait.

Or maybe I just don't get it.

Yea you don't get it. It's not just about the race, it's about the culture.  Culture and ethnicity should absolutely be celebrated. Ever drink a beer or wear green on St Pattys Day? Celebrating culture. Small example but try to think of it broader terms like that.

21 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

Race/ethnicity/culture/etc should be acknowledged, accepted, and respected. Not celebrated.

Honestly curious why this is your outlook. Can you elaborate? Have you ever enjoyed a taco? Then you celebrated Mexican culture. Or did you just acknowledge the taco? lol because honestly this outlook makes zero sense to me. 

The whole reason the world is in incredible place is because of the diversity and culture of the people. I can't fathom not wanting to celebrate that. 

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

Just now, CodysGameRoom said:

Honestly curious why this is your outlook. Can you elaborate? Have you ever enjoyed a taco? Then you celebrated Mexican culture. Or did you just acknowledge the taco? lol because honestly this outlook makes zero sense to me. 

The whole reason the world is in incredible place is because of the diversity and culture of the people. I can't fathom not wanting to celebrate that. 

Acknowledge, respect, and accept is a much easier sell to casual racists out there than celebrate is. We need wins and headway.

[Khromak | 769]

Look I don't want to derail the conversation but I don't think celebrating diversity, cultures, or races is necessary. It's a nice bonus and makes everyone feel warm and fuzzy (plus you get tacos), but the most important thing that we shouldn't lose sight of is just treating people equally. This trial isn't a good sign of a leap forward because now suddenly cops might start to eat food from a Nigerian restaurant or start to understand Congolese customs, this is a starting point for people to start to view the inequality in treatment people are seeing.

Maybe, just maybe, if we can get to a point where blacks and other minorities have equal outcomes in society, then we can start talking about being more appreciative about their cultures. Let's work on treating human beings as if they were our brothers instead of adversaries. We can't expect the KKK to suddenly turn around and start celebrating Kwanzaa, they don't even like it when someone puts Sriracha on their burgers because they can't pronounce it and that hurts their feelings.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Khromak
Culturally insensitive spelling mistake

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

@Khromak

Completely agree. Great post!

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

8 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

Acknowledge, respect, and accept is a much easier sell to casual racists out there than celebrate is. We need wins and headway.

You're not making sense. I get "baby steps", but why base your personal view on what baby steps you think might help? We can shoot for the moon and acknowledge what it's going to take to make real change at the same time.

4 minutes ago, Khromak said:

I don't want to derail the conversation but I don't think celebrating diversity, cultures, or races is necessary. It's a nice bonus and makes everyone feel warm and fuzzy (plus you get tacos), but the most important thing that we shouldn't lose sight of is just treating people equally.

Here's what you are missing. Celebrating diversity, cultures and races should = treating people equally. We should be celebrating all diversity. For everyone. It would make the world a better place. Treating people equally doesn't mean no one celebrates their culture.

6 minutes ago, Khromak said:

Maybe, just maybe, if we can get to a point where blacks and other minorities have equal outcomes in society, then we can start talking about being more appreciative about their cultures. Let's work on treating human beings as if they were our brothers instead of adversaries.

I get you and Kg's sentiment but these things can had should happen at the same time. A big part of equal treatment is celebrating what makes people unique and diverse. In a positive manner. 

[Silent Hill | 276]

19 hours ago, Khromak said:

The problem isn't any individual case, but in the statistics. People of color are disproportionally affected by this kind of police violence. So when things like this happen it seems (and probably is) racially motivated. I'm sure if I, a white guy, was accused of passing a $20 counterfeit, they wouldn't have tackled me to the ground and put their knee on my neck, they would've had a polite conversation with me. Under the same circumstances, whites are treated differently from blacks. There are hundreds of examples and, more importantly, it's substantiated by the data.

To be fair, GF wasn't "tackled", he asked them to place him on the ground. And this was after many minutes of him refusing/resisting to get in the cruiser. The bodycam footage before he was on the ground shows that they were trying to get him to comply and even offered to place him in the front seat, with the windows down, etc. Anything to get him in the cruiser. Even though GF wasn't white, if he were to have gotten in the cruiser, he would still be alive. Doesn't excuse what Chauvin did, though. I'm not defending his actions at all - just pointing out that you're painting an inaccurate picture of what happened to further push the racial narrative. Also, check out Tony Timpa if you want to see a white man get killed by police in a similar fashion. Lastly, consider that the discrepancy in use-of-force data by race is multi-factored, one factor being the number of police interactions per race. It's not a fair assumption to claim any, or the majority, use of force by police towards minorities is racially driven. 

[SailorScoutMandy | 782]

Celebration of cultures Is wonderful. I love meeting new people and trying new foods and learning new history. That has nothing to do with racism like some of you are trying to tie together. 

 

I do think it hards for those outside the US to really understand what's happening. But please read up and be an asset to help make positive chnages. We need everyone to bond together to help fight the systemic racism. 

 

No one should be treated differently due to their ethnicity. Ever. 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by SailorScoutMandy
Words

[Khromak | 769]

8 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I get you and Kg's sentiment but these things can had should happen at the same time. A big part of equal treatment is celebrating what makes people unique and diverse. In a positive manner. 

I guess maybe I'm just more pessimistic about the whole thing but I think it's a lot easier to change policies, screening practices, reporting practices, auditing, etc. than it is to change the minds of an entire population to convince them all that no race is superior or inferior. Convince the guy with a swastika tattoo that Mexicans aren't lazy by showing them that Mexicans have a strong connection to their mothers, they make tacos with corn tortillas, and explaining dia de los muertos to them, good luck.

I think the more effective way to make change is through enforcing strict requirements and accountability, not in trying to change the minds of racists. Though I'd love for both, don't get me wrong.

[Khromak | 769]

@Silent Hill you're right I wasn't aware of how he ended up on the ground, but regardless if he was on the ground because he asked to be placed there, there's absolutely no need to hold his head on the ground while he's cuffed and you have 3 of your friends nearby, a taser, and a gun. Are you that afraid of being kicked by this handcuffed guy?

Sure, we can go over examples of white people being killed, I'm certain that it happens. But nothing is proven through anecdotes. That's why people use statistics instead of stories. The stories are only there to emphasize the point. I'm sure if there was a huge problem with people's ice cream melting we'd point to the temperatures outside, but also if you wanted to drive the point home to people, you'd probably point to a video of someone with melted ice cream on their hands, right?

OK so you say that the problem is with the number of involvements with police. Don't you think that's weird? That people of color are involved with the police more than whites? What do you think the reason for that is? Behind door 1: they're just worse people which causes them to be in contact with police more (definition of racism). Behind door 2: police are targeting them disproportionally (the topic of this discussion). If you've got another explanation I'm open to ideas.