Thank F*ck GUILTY

[fcgamer | 4,754]

4 minutes ago, Khromak said:

You have to consider how it sounds when compared to the systemic stuff happening in the US (and other countries I'm sure). Kids are growing up with significantly worse infrastructure, education, job opportunities, social safety nets, etc. and then have worse outcomes for generations and are stuck in a feedback loop. That's a bit more impactful and harder to solve than the acts of individuals on you as a foreigner.

This is where you are wrong though - there definitely *is* systemic racism at play here too. I am sure many other countries have similar laws and rules, off the top of my head I've heard of a few in Thailand. So it shows a deep lack of understanding or lack of willingness to understand. I'll highlight some examples below:

1. I live in the second largest city in Taiwan. Historically, bus fare was free for up to 10k I iirc. This year, they started to charge for bus fare, but only for people that don't reside in the city, with the sole exception being students. Sounds reasonable, right?

The problem is that Taiwan has a mandatory household registration office, for census and voting purposes, stuff like that. Despite having lived in the city for ten years, and my card stating that I am an alien resident (keyword, resident), because I do not own a house, I cannot register at the office, therefore I need to pay for the fare. Me and other minority groups, such as Vietnamese, Philippinos, Indonesians, etc. Literally funding the bus service for the majority group.

2. "Okay Dave, stop complaining and buy a house then. For the amount you pay for rent, you could easily pay that monthly for a house." That's what four or five of my Taiwanense friends have told me, and are doing themselves. Some might even add, "It's such a waste to be paying all that rent, you've been here so long by now."

Great idea, thanks guys! So I looked into buying a house, you know the whole trying to progress up in life bit? Well I'm not a rich man by any means, and earning 2k a month here with houses starting at about half a million, definitely no way I can afford it, so I go to the bank like any reasonable person would do, to inquire about loans.

Oops, only one of about five banks I inquired at were willing to offer a loan to a foreigner, and at that bank the teller said that the loan likely still wouldn't be enough to cover a house. So although we can technically buy property here, I'd have to purchase it, in full.

3. Even for credit cards, the services offered to "my kind" are very limited. Heaven help me if I ever get into a jam.

4. What about health services? Generally they are fine, but when the pandemic hit, foreigners were initially excluded as the government mask rationing system kicked off. It was based off of ID cards, and foreigner ID cards and national ID cards use a different number format; no one bothered to implement a system that would recognise foreigner id numbers. Masks were being required to be worn while shopping, at jobs, on public transport, etc, and we couldn't even get the damn things! A few weeks later, we were allowed to get masks by providing our information manually, on site, where they'd write it down in a notebook. But even then, a lot of the workers still claimed we were intelligible.

5. Oh and the covid relief vouchers to help the people where I live? Yup, I and many others weren't eligible for those either, again due to the ID card bullshit.

6. Now covid-19 vaccines are starting to roll out here. It's the same exact situation though, not eligible for it until the locals get it.

7. Paid holiday? Yeah, under the law I'm entitled to it, but employers won't give it to foreigners, and if they put up a fuss, the company will just fire you, and then you're screwed as for a large amount of foreign workers here, our visa is tied to the job. So I lose my job, I have to leave.

8. Holiday bonuses, yup, it's a no go. As the boss stated once, "It's not your holiday so no bonus for you".

Sure, I am not getting shot by cops here (and actually, for the most part, no one is), so I don't mean to take away from that issue; however, the whole system here is designed in such a way that it is very, very difficult for a foreigner to get ahead, aside from by marrying a local. The systems I mentioned above are just some of the checks in place.

I mean, eff, I think it's finally changed but when I first came here, foreigners couldn't even get a cellphone number, and had to get a local friend / boss to help them just to get their own phone! And even now, several online commerce shops won't allow foreigners to register, even if they are residents of the country.

 

 

 

[OptOut | 8,892]

Yeah, what FCgamer said is true, unless you're married to a Taiwanese. 

I love Taiwan, but that's because almost everything he said doesn't apply to me, because I'm married. 

I only came here because I got married, I definitely wouldn't be here otherwise.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

29 minutes ago, Californication said:

My other grandfather was first generation hispanic and was refused work because of his ethnicity. He joined the military and served in Germany during peacetime. He later worked the night shift for decades and was pulled over every week for decades on his way back from work by the police to ask if he was out drinking.

Okay, so your grandfather immigrated to the States. I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly.

Then he faced prejudices unfairly, as a minority, based on his ethnicity.

I know you will take it personally, since it involves your family and we are already discussing a heated topic, and for that I will apologize in advance. However, let's revisit this statement you made earlier:

4 hours ago, Californication said:

You did not grow up a minority and did not face the disadvantages in life that a minority faces and are claiming that status. 

Your grandfather was presumably not a minority in his home country, right? Did he choose to move to the States? Possibly looking for vs better opportunity, compared to what he had back in his home country?

Why do you think I'm in Taiwan now? I moved here for better opportunities than what I could have back home. And now I am a minority, facing discrimination left and right. Are not the two stories much alike?

[Californication | 1,490]

54 minutes ago, Khromak said:

I think we've made it abundantly clear by now that nobody can read or understand context on the internet.

I believe @fcgamer has a point though, while it's a different kind of racism and it didn't affect his entire upbringing, it is still real racism and shouldn't be thrown out of the window because it's happening to an adult or because he volunteered for it.

You have to consider how it sounds when compared to the systemic stuff happening in the US (and other countries I'm sure). Kids are growing up with significantly worse infrastructure, education, job opportunities, social safety nets, etc. and then have worse outcomes for generations and are stuck in a feedback loop. That's a bit more impactful and harder to solve than the acts of individuals on you as a foreigner.

I still think they're both wrong and we need to resolve both, and I don't mean to minimize your experience, only to put it into context and explain why others are jumping down your throat for comparing the two.

You haven't read his other posts. He uses his being white in a foreign country as his basis for disagreeing with the opinions of minorities in America on a regular basis.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

18 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

You can find a bunch of articles/studies on why diversity programs fail/backfire and it primarily seems to be based on how the program/content is delivered. Of course diversity is important and a good thing, but the content and delivery can have a negative impact if done incorrectly. 

So we agree then, nice.

I have not once discussed how diversity programs are delivered or why they succeed/fail. I simply said it is important. So did you, so that's nice to be on the same page for once. 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

1 minute ago, Californication said:

You haven't read his other posts. He uses his being white in a foreign country as his basis for disagreeing with the opinions of minorities in America on a regular basis.

Nope, I'm just pointing out that racism is alive and well everywhere in this world, sadly enough. I'm also pointing out and forcing folks to have the uncomfortable conversation that perhaps what they take as "truths" about racism actually isn't necessarily clear cut.

[Californication | 1,490]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

Okay, so your grandfather immigrated to the States. I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly.

Then he faced prejudices unfairly, as a minority, based on his ethnicity.

I know you will take it personally, since it involves your family and we are already discussing a heated topic, and for that I will apologize in advance. However, let's revisit this statement you made earlier:

Your grandfather was presumably not a minority in his home country, right? Did he choose to move to the States? Possibly looking for vs better opportunity, compared to what he had back in his home country?

Why do you think I'm in Taiwan now? I moved here for better opportunities than what I could have back home. And now I am a minority, facing discrimination left and right. Are not the two stories much alike?

My great grandfather emigrated. My grandfather was born here and is 100% American. He faced racism and a lack of opportunities in the country he was born in because of his race. 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

2 minutes ago, Californication said:

My great grandfather emigrated. My grandfather was born here and is 100% American. He faced racism and a lack of opportunities in the country he was born in because of his race. 

Well that's on you, not on me, as you wrote earlier it was your grandfather and he was first generation Hispanic.

Of course I don't know your family tree, but from the post you initially wrote, his and my situation are similar. And if your updated post id the correct one, I'm sure we can find lots of other first generation immigrants in the same boat, who knows, maybe even your great grandfather. So the point still stands.

[Californication | 1,490]

6 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Well that's on you, not on me, as you wrote earlier it was your grandfather and he was first generation Hispanic.

Of course I don't know your family tree, but from the post you initially wrote, his and my situation are similar. And if your updated post id the correct one, I'm sure we can find lots of other first generation immigrants in the same boat, who knows, maybe even your great grandfather. So the point still stands.

If you google the definition of first generation you will see that my usage is also accurate.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

11 minutes ago, Californication said:

If you google the definition of first generation you will see that my usage is also accurate.

Sure, that's fine, but now we are just talking semantics. The point still stands though, I'm an immigrant, many Hispanics living in America were immigrants, and we all chose to leave our countries, and furthermore ended up being discriminated against in a variety of ways. As you had even seen such type things occur, it makes it all the worse that you try to shrug off some prejudices as not "counting"

 

[Gloves | 11,843]

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Sure, that's fine, but now we are just talking semantics. The point still stands though, I'm an immigrant, many Hispanics living in America were immigrants, and we all chose to leave our countries, and furthermore ended up being discriminated against in a variety of ways. As you had even seen such type things occur, it makes it all the worse that you try to shrug off some prejudices as not "counting"

 

You don't really get to say "now we're just talking semantics" when earlier in the thread you made a big deal about the usage of "ethnicity" vs "race". 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

You don't really get to say "now we're just talking semantics" when earlier in the thread you made a big deal about the usage of "ethnicity" vs "race". 

Both of our definitions of what it means to be a "first generation immigrant" are correct. I've no idea which definition is more common, or if both are equal, but there's little else to say on that matter.

With race versus ethnicity though, I think everyone here understands the clear difference between the two, it would not just be arguing semantics.

[Gloves | 11,843]

30 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Both of our definitions of what it means to be a "first generation immigrant" are correct. I've no idea which definition is more common, or if both are equal, but there's little else to say on that matter.

With race versus ethnicity though, I think everyone here understands the clear difference between the two, it would not just be arguing semantics.

If everyone had the same understanding of the terminology you'd never have brought it up when it came up. I'd say it's one of those things you should probably just go "I know what he's talking about, I'm not going to worry about the specific terms used in this situation" and move on. But you chose to get semantic about it, and so here we are lol.

[JamesRobot | 5,839]

Jeez, it's getting all anti-semantic up in here.  

 

 

Ok, I'll see myself out now.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

7 minutes ago, Gloves said:

If everyone had the same understanding of the terminology you'd never have brought it up when it came up. I'd say it's one of those things you should probably just go "I know what he's talking about, I'm not going to worry about the specific terms used in this situation" and move on. But you chose to get semantic about it, and so here we are lol.

That's fair enough, though IIRC, a similar thing happened in the Apu thread, only in reverse   With such topics, I don't think we should be viewing it as a smorgasbord, picking and choosing only when it fits our personal agenda.

I'm not even sure why ethnicity was brought up in this thread to begin with, but it was, and I think it was initially brought up alongside racism, rather than erroneously being used instead of racism.

 

[Californication | 1,490]

48 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Sure, that's fine, but now we are just talking semantics. The point still stands though, I'm an immigrant, many Hispanics living in America were immigrants, and we all chose to leave our countries, and furthermore ended up being discriminated against in a variety of ways. As you had even seen such type things occur, it makes it all the worse that you try to shrug off some prejudices as not "counting"

 

You clearly don't understand the psychological implications of growing up as a minority the higher probability of anxieties, ptsd, etc. 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

20 minutes ago, Californication said:

You clearly don't understand the psychological implications of growing up as a minority the higher probability of anxieties, ptsd, etc. 

So if I have children whilst living in Taiwan, would you recognise any racism or prejudice that they have to endure? Or would that somehow not count, either?

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by fcgamer

[guitarzombie | 927]

Interesting how @fcgamerturned this thread into about himself.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

48 minutes ago, guitarzombie said:

Interesting how @fcgamerturned this thread into about himself.

Is anyone really surprised?

 

Women getting cheated on in Asian countries ——> cultural convention (get used to it)

White people getting discriminated against in asian countries “every body does it” (cultural convention?) ——> Im a victim!/not okay

[fcgamer | 4,754]

10 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Is anyone really surprised?

 

Women getting cheated on in Asian countries ——> cultural convention (get used to it)

White people getting discriminated against in asian countries “every body does it” (cultural convention?) ——> Im a victim!/not okay

Do some research, get a f'cking clue dude. Love ya Corey, but you gotta look further than your American scope.

[Code Monkey | 2,014]

It's all weird to me, I see some people claim racism anytime something doesn't go their way. I'm a board member here with my condo so I asked some contractor to move his van 2 weeks ago because he was literally blocking our complex street. Rear bumper against the entrance, front bumper against the yellow line in the middle of the road. When he refused, I called the police to deal with it, I don't have time to babysit people. As I was walking away, he yelled across the entire complex, "You think you're better than me because you're from here? I'm from here too buddy, I was born here. This isn't your country, this is OUR country!" Wow, this guy spoke perfect English, I never addressed his race in any way. I phoned his boss at the contracting company whom then contacted this guy and his boss told me the guy was claiming I told him to go back to whichever country he came from. True story.

So no, not every time someone calls race is it justified.

I'd also like to address other racism issues that confuse me:

1. Why are black people African American? If I moved to Africa, would they call me Canadian African? If I were born there, would I be American African? No, I'd be African. Why don't people call white people African American if they're from Africa? Charlize Theron was born and raised in South Africa, then the emigrated to America. Is she African American? Ya, I don't get it, I think if you're born in America, then you're American. Skin colour not relevant.
2. I only learned earlier this year there's something called a brown person and it refers to people from India, I didn't know this. I thought they were part of the black people, did you know that? So since nobody actually has black skin, just various shades of brown, why do we call dark brown people black and we call light brown people brown? They're all brown! I don't get it.
3. Why do we call Chinese people Asian but we call Indian people Indian? Why don't we call Indians Asian when India is literally another country in Asia? It doesn't make sense to me.
4. If we're celebrating race, can we celebrate my whiteness? Can we have marches and whitelivesmatter rallies and treat me great because I'm so hardcore white? If I don't get a job, can I blame it on the fact I'm too white?

I type this to be funny but I honestly don't get it. I think we should just ignore it all and treat skin colour like height. If you wouldn't do / say it to a tall person, then don't do / say it to a darker skin person. Everyone's equal.

[Kguillemette | 1,547]

So I had a great fried chicken sandwich not too long ago from a chain called TKK fried chicken. While they don't have a drive through, the product itself is well worth getting out of your car for. It is certainly a contender for best fried chicken sandwich!

I've been there a few times and the food has always been very good! The only downside is with my local store. It seems like a family with no restaurant experience bought a franchise. I've had multiple orders missing food, or they give me the wrong condiments, etc. Rookie type issues. Just make sure you double check your orders before leaving, because the food itself is very worth it!

https://www.tkkusa.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4ImEBhDFARIsAGOTMj8ac45os1U8Zv-tibtBtyXwkE0on_ZRLv5aCZpP5nV7b92QDmj9_OIaAmwdEALw_wcB

[phart010 | 1,708]

3 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

So I had a great fried chicken sandwich not too long ago from a chain called TKK fried chicken. While they don't have a drive through, the product itself is well worth getting out of your car for. It is certainly a contender for best fried chicken sandwich!

I've been there a few times and the food has always been very good! The only downside is with my local store. It seems like a family with no restaurant experience bought a franchise. I've had multiple orders missing food, or they give me the wrong condiments, etc. Rookie type issues. Just make sure you double check your orders before leaving, because the food itself is very worth it!

https://www.tkkusa.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4ImEBhDFARIsAGOTMj8ac45os1U8Zv-tibtBtyXwkE0on_ZRLv5aCZpP5nV7b92QDmj9_OIaAmwdEALw_wcB

Wow that sandwich looks amazing, but did you post this in the right thread?

[phart010 | 1,708]

32 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

It's all weird to me, I see some people claim racism anytime something doesn't go their way. I'm a board member here with my condo so I asked some contractor to move his van 2 weeks ago because he was literally blocking our complex street. Rear bumper against the entrance, front bumper against the yellow line in the middle of the road. When he refused, I called the police to deal with it, I don't have time to babysit people. As I was walking away, he yelled across the entire complex, "You think you're better than me because you're from here? I'm from here too buddy, I was born here. This isn't your country, this is OUR country!" Wow, this guy spoke perfect English, I never addressed his race in any way. I phoned his boss at the contracting company whom then contacted this guy and his boss told me the guy was claiming I told him to go back to whichever country he came from. True story.

So no, not every time someone calls race is it justified.

I'd also like to address other racism issues that confuse me:

1. Why are black people African American? If I moved to Africa, would they call me Canadian African? If I were born there, would I be American African? No, I'd be African. Why don't people call white people African American if they're from Africa? Charlize Theron was born and raised in South Africa, then the emigrated to America. Is she African American? Ya, I don't get it, I think if you're born in America, then you're American. Skin colour not relevant.
2. I only learned earlier this year there's something called a brown person and it refers to people from India, I didn't know this. I thought they were part of the black people, did you know that? So since nobody actually has black skin, just various shades of brown, why do we call dark brown people black and we call light brown people brown? They're all brown! I don't get it.
3. Why do we call Chinese people Asian but we call Indian people Indian? Why don't we call Indians Asian when India is literally another country in Asia? It doesn't make sense to me.
4. If we're celebrating race, can we celebrate my whiteness? Can we have marches and whitelivesmatter rallies and treat me great because I'm so hardcore white? If I don't get a job, can I blame it on the fact I'm too white?

I type this to be funny but I honestly don't get it. I think we should just ignore it all and treat skin colour like height. If you wouldn't do / say it to a tall person, then don't do / say it to a darker skin person. Everyone's equal.

1. Why are black people African American?
   Good intentions. It sounded more politically correct when people started saying it. Unfortunately it’s not accurate and it’s now out of fashion.
2. Why do we call Chinese people Asian but we call Indian people Indian? Why don't we call Indians Asian when India is literally another country in Asia? It doesn't make sense to me. Some people do call Indians and Pakistanis Asian, just depends on who you are talking to. I have a Pakistani coworker who identifies as Asian. Fun fact: technically speaking Iranians and Afghanistani’s are also Asians. And Egyptians and Moroccans, although Arabs are technically Africans.
3. If we're celebrating race, can we celebrate my whiteness? Can we have marches and whitelivesmatter rallies and treat me great because I'm so hardcore white? If I don't get a job, can I blame it on the fact I'm too white? Someone did this before. Didn’t go well for him: https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/09/living/colorado-bbq-restaurant-white-appreciation-day-feat

Edited April 23, 2021 by phart010

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

1 hour ago, Code Monkey said:

It's all weird to me, I see some people claim racism anytime something doesn't go their way. I'm a board member here with my condo so I asked some contractor to move his van 2 weeks ago because he was literally blocking our complex street. Rear bumper against the entrance, front bumper against the yellow line in the middle of the road. When he refused, I called the police to deal with it, I don't have time to babysit people. As I was walking away, he yelled across the entire complex, "You think you're better than me because you're from here? I'm from here too buddy, I was born here. This isn't your country, this is OUR country!" Wow, this guy spoke perfect English, I never addressed his race in any way. I phoned his boss at the contracting company whom then contacted this guy and his boss told me the guy was claiming I told him to go back to whichever country he came from. True story.

So no, not every time someone calls race is it justified.

I'd also like to address other racism issues that confuse me:

1. Why are black people African American? If I moved to Africa, would they call me Canadian African? If I were born there, would I be American African? No, I'd be African. Why don't people call white people African American if they're from Africa? Charlize Theron was born and raised in South Africa, then the emigrated to America. Is she African American? Ya, I don't get it, I think if you're born in America, then you're American. Skin colour not relevant.
2. I only learned earlier this year there's something called a brown person and it refers to people from India, I didn't know this. I thought they were part of the black people, did you know that? So since nobody actually has black skin, just various shades of brown, why do we call dark brown people black and we call light brown people brown? They're all brown! I don't get it.
3. Why do we call Chinese people Asian but we call Indian people Indian? Why don't we call Indians Asian when India is literally another country in Asia? It doesn't make sense to me.
4. If we're celebrating race, can we celebrate my whiteness? Can we have marches and whitelivesmatter rallies and treat me great because I'm so hardcore white? If I don't get a job, can I blame it on the fact I'm too white?

I type this to be funny but I honestly don't get it. I think we should just ignore it all and treat skin colour like height. If you wouldn't do / say it to a tall person, then don't do / say it to a darker skin person. Everyone's equal.

We get it dude, you don’t understand the nuances of race discussion from another country. Either do the research so you can participate, or stick to something you understand because this is obviously too complicated for you. 
 

PS. The age old “cant I celebrate my whiteness?” Comment is a pretty easy way to identify a casual racist.  Nobody would say anything about celebrating Irish culture, or Scandinavian culture, and those are caucasian countries. But we all know that isnt what you mean.