MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Link said: blah blah screaming “Raise Taxes Bad!!” We can guarantee higher education as a right for all and cancel all student debt for an estimated $2.2 trillion. To pay for this, we will impose a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street speculators who nearly destroyed the economy a decade ago. This Wall Street speculation tax will raise $2.4 trillion over the next ten years. It works by placing a 0.5 percent tax on stock trades – 50 cents on every $100 of stock – a 0.1 percent fee on bond trades, and a 0.005 percent fee on derivative trades. If Wall Street can be bailed out for several trillion dollars, 45 million Americans can and will be bailed out of the $1.6 trillion burden of student loan debt and we can provide free college for all. Some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax, including Britain, South Korea, Hong Kong, Brazil, Germany, France, Switzerland and China. Very interesting, I didnt know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Tulpa said: Only when he's "owning the libs", apparently. Otherwise, it's not respecting the office, because Obama was never criticized for wearing a tan suit or anything. I will give him a pass on the tan suit, but Dijon mustard was over the line. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,545 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Link said: I don’t give a shit. It’s bloated and it’s a hole for crony and lobbyist contractors. It’s ridiculous and there is no good reason for it to be as excessive as it is. I’m disappointed that people are so one-note on this. And this. The highest marginal rate during and post WWII was 90%. (And that was a true economic boom period, unlike what we have going right now where rich get richer but poor and lower middle get poorer, majority of new jobs are low quality and low pay, etc) If that is a big scary number to anyone, they fundamentally do not know what it means. It is not 90% of anyone’s income or worth, and it is a drop in the bucket for those affected, which is very, very few people. Yes, that is how they sold it. Turns out they only did the first part. They also said most people would be able to file their taxes on a postcard. If you want change you need to effectively sell it. Appeal to the everyman. I suggest dropping the condescending tone if you want to be taken seriously. That goes for those on the other end of the argument also. That being said, you seem extremely knowledgeable on economics. What is your background? Or do you follow politics as a hobby? Edited February 10, 2020 by Kguillemette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerfestus | 3,860 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: I will give him a pass on the tan suit, but Dijon mustard was over the line. Mustard is a commie condiment. Mayonnaise for ‘Murica. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster | 124 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 14 hours ago, Californication said: If you mean that 9/11 was a crises and W. used American's fear at the time to get us into Iraq when there were not real grounds, I definetly agree. God knows they tried to manufacture a war with Venezuela and Iran and just haven't been able to get the public on board. I do mean that. I believe that if Trump were faced with his own 9/11, he would defintely go to war with *someone* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link | 2,714 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, Kguillemette said: If you want change you need to effectively sell it. Appeal to the everyman. I suggest dropping the condescending tone if you want to be taken seriously. That goes for those on the other end of the argument also. Maybe I set a bad tone with the first line, beyond that I don’t think it was condescending at all. There’s only so nice I can be in response to severe misrepresentation such as “Democrats want to take 50% of your income” which I have seen in places that are not here. By the way, I didn’t say “you”, because I wasn’t talking to you Kguillamette, but rather about hypothetical people holding the blanket attitudes you cited. If talking to someone specifically, I suppose I could say “that’s not what it is at all” instead of “you don’t know what it means.” Thanks for the tip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 43 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said: Mustard is a commie condiment. Mayonnaise for ‘Murica. If commies could afford mustard the USSR might still be around Pretty sure the big mustard makers are American (both basic-ass yellow and fancy varieties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,545 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Link said: Maybe I set a bad tone with the first line, beyond that I don’t think it was condescending at all. There’s only so nice I can be in response to severe misrepresentation such as “Democrats want to take 50% of your income” which I have seen in places that are not here. By the way, I didn’t say “you”, because I wasn’t talking to you Kguillamette, but rather about hypothetical people holding the blanket attitudes you cited. If talking to someone specifically, I suppose I could say “that’s not what it is at all” instead of “you don’t know what it means.” Thanks for the tip. Ill be honest, you lost me after the first line. I had to go back and re-read it. There is good content there. I disagree with you on how to spend the money, but you do have good ideas on how to get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Rooster said: I do mean that. I believe that if Trump were faced with his own 9/11, he would defintely go to war with *someone* Ya, I think you're right, if Trump had the opportunity he would get a lot of people killed. That being said, at this point in time, I don't think Trump has done as much damage as Bush. People can argue about the border concentration camps, the long term damage the state courts and supreme courts will have on peoples lives, and the U.S. loss of allies in the world, but i still think that the loss of life caused by the Bush presidency out weighs all of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster | 124 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Californication said: Ya, I think you're right, if Trump had the opportunity he would get a lot of people killed. That being said, at this point in time, I don't think Trump has done as much damage as Bush. People can argue about the border concentration camps, the long term damage the state courts and supreme courts will have on peoples lives, and the U.S. loss of allies in the world, but i still think that the loss of life caused by the Bush presidency out weighs all of it. Technically yes, though their situations were different. It's not really worth comparing though to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineappleLawnchair | 88 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 9:03 PM, Rooster said: W also had to deal with 9/11 and Trump hasn't had any similar emergencies to deal with yet. So Dubya's better because he's the "devil you know", and not because of anything Trump actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster | 124 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, PineappleLawnchair said: So Dubya's better because he's the "devil you know", and not because of anything Trump actually did. I never said any such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest4Nes | 376 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Californication said: Ya, I think you're right, if Trump had the opportunity he would get a lot of people killed. That being said, at this point in time, I don't think Trump has done as much damage as Bush. People can argue about the border concentration camps, the long term damage the state courts and supreme courts will have on peoples lives, and the U.S. loss of allies in the world, but i still think that the loss of life caused by the Bush presidency out weighs all of it. well by border concentration camps, those kids in cages pictured circulating used for propoganda were from 2014. Long before trump. Everyone started paying attention when trump took office because of his hard stance on border crossings. If im not mistaken, pretty much didnt he just enforce the laws already on the books? He ended family separations with an executive order since everyone had a hissy fit about things that were long happening before. Then the 9th circuit overturned it back to what it was. Border crossing and enforcement is one area Im not libertarian on at all so I really dont have a problem with enforcing laws on the books. Disencentivize crossing the border illegally and the problem shouldnt be as bad. If you dont lay down the law, theyll just keep flooding the system. Edited February 10, 2020 by Quest4Nes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said: well by border concentration camps, those kids in cages pictured circulating used for propoganda were from 2014. Long before trump. Everyone started paying attention when trump took office because of his hard stance on border crossings. If im not mistaken, pretty much didnt he just enforce the laws already on the books? He ended family separations with an executive order, then the 9th circuit overturned it back to what it was. Border crossing and enforcement is one area Im not libertarian on at all so I really dont have a problem with enforcing laws on the books. Disencentivize crossing the border illegally and the problem shouldnt be as bad. If you dont lay down the law, theyll just keep flooding the system. I'm not sure where you heard all that. When Mexican used to cross the border without permissions it was a civil offense. The illegals would be ticketed and they would show up to court 90 something percent of the time. Trump made it a criminal offense to cross the border illegaly. Since illegals were now committing a criminal offense they had to create facilities to house the illegal aliens. The problem did not exist before Trump. No children died in the custody of ICE before Donald Trump. Also, how do you think the photos could be from 2014 when there are photos of current senators and the vice president touring the concentration camps? Edited February 10, 2020 by Californication 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest4Nes | 376 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) https://apnews.com/a98f26f7c9424b44b7fa927ea1acd4d4/AP-FACT-CHECK:-2014-photo-wrongly-used-to-hit-Trump-policies Im talking about this shit. Photos circulating kids in cages used in attacks vs trump. These detention facilities were doing this stuff long before trump And most of what you just said sounds pretty wrong actually. But I dont have time to talk about it. I got to go to bed. Plus I dont want to even get into it with you since youve never been wrong ever. And anyone who disagrees with you doesnt care about the country. Words straight from your keyboard on NA. Edited February 10, 2020 by Quest4Nes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Did you read anything that I said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest4Nes | 376 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Yes, and I was talking about how the crap all got started. The fact he continued facilities and methods used from the previous administration, and the media using all those images to try and stir shit up like Trump started it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineappleLawnchair | 88 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Rooster said: I never said any such thing. It's a paraphrase, though i might be reading too much into it because i fucking hate Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said: Yes, and I was talking about how the crap all got started. The fact he continued facilities and methods used from the previous administration, and the media using all those images to try and stir shit up like Trump started it. Actually, I was partially wrong, you were right that it was an old law on the books. It looks like the way it was enforced changed under Trump. The family seperation was definitely new. In the past family's were supposed to only seperated if the children were thought to be in danger from the parent. Trump and them began seperating the children from the familys and penning the children together. Also, if the children had family in the U.S. I think the government would allow them to go to their family while they were being processed. And the Trump administration some how created a situation were the kids were no longer being picked up when they had relatives in the u.s. The previous administration created the facilities, the Trump administration increased the arrest rate, decreased the court processing time and decreased the number of illegals given citizenship, overwhelming the facilities capabilities. Edited February 10, 2020 by Californication 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) The 1325 law which illigalized border crossings was on the books. Trump , Jeff Sessions, and administration created the "zero tolerance" department of homeland security policy. This is the policy you are saying Trump got rid of. It was not around under Obama or anyone else. They put some Mexican children in foster homes in the u.s., deported their parents, and did not even keep track of which kids belonged to which parents. There are children that will never be reunited with their families and I forget how many children died. I am not sure how you are defending that, it's a little sick. Edited February 10, 2020 by Californication 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,265 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 6 hours ago, arch_8ngel said: I will give him a pass on the tan suit, but Dijon mustard was over the line. Well he did get some ridiclue if I recall when he threw out that first pitch for his Chicago White Sox wearing so-called "mom jeans"...fashion is yet another thing I don't know much about so TBH, I wouldn't even know what "mom jeans" are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,324 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Californication said: Also, how do you think the photos could be from 2014 when there are photos of current senators and the vice president touring the concentration camps? Do the names Dachau, Sachenhausen, Bergen-Belsen, Auschwitz, Mauthausen, Ravensbruck or Buchenwald (to name but a few among at least hundreds if not thousands from that shameful (and lengthy) roster) have any meaning in the current propaganda lexicon? Any photographs of crematoria on the border? Satellite industries/camps devoted to utilzing slave labor? Edited February 10, 2020 by Wandering Tellurian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, Wandering Tellurian said: Do the names Dachau, Sachenhausen, Bergen-Belsen, Auschwitz, Mauthausen, Ravensbruck or Buchenwald (to name but a few among at least hundreds if not thousands from that shameful (and lengthy) roster) have any meaning in the current propaganda lexicon? Any photographs of crematoria on the border? Satellite industries/camps devoted to utilzing slave labor? Are you going to use that same line of reasoning to say that what we did to Japanese Americans during ww2 were not "concentration camps"? The Nazis had death camps. Concentration camp is a much more broadly applicable term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,729 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 14 hours ago, Link said: blah blah screaming “Raise Taxes Bad!!” We can guarantee higher education as a right for all and cancel all student debt for an estimated $2.2 trillion. To pay for this, we will impose a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street speculators who nearly destroyed the economy a decade ago. This Wall Street speculation tax will raise $2.4 trillion over the next ten years. It works by placing a 0.5 percent tax on stock trades – 50 cents on every $100 of stock – a 0.1 percent fee on bond trades, and a 0.005 percent fee on derivative trades. If Wall Street can be bailed out for several trillion dollars, 45 million Americans can and will be bailed out of the $1.6 trillion burden of student loan debt and we can provide free college for all. Some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax, including Britain, South Korea, Hong Kong, Brazil, Germany, France, Switzerland and China. No thanks. There's plenty of people out there who wanted to go to a better university, or for more schooling, who didn't due to not being able to afford it. Those who were in that position and went ahead with it anyways should have made a wiser decision at the time. If we start forgiving student debt, we are just slapping those in the face who made sacrifices and wiser choices, and rewarding those who didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 14 hours ago, arch_8ngel said: I will give him a pass on the tan suit, but Dijon mustard was over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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