Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 The first sentence of the definition describes what is happening at the border and then it days "or" to await mass execution. Or means that the two sides of the sentence are independent. Either side of the sentence is the definition of a concentration camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 As if the definition of what it is makes whats happening there any less awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Are you not entertained! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,324 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Californication said: The first sentence of the definition describes what is happening at the border and then it days "or" to await mass execution. )yrt again)Or means that the two sides of the sentence are independent. Either side of the sentence is the definition of a concentration camp. Only vaguely describes the border if you consider those incarcerated to be an oppressed minority - which they are not since lawbreakers can be of any stripe. And as i stated earlier they have a get out of jail free card by simply agreeing to go home) You are ignoring (and I can only assume deliberately at this point) the primary usage of the term described in the last sentence, Which pretty much negates the use of term in regards to the border unless you are postulating some fairly direct equivalency. Since you still aren't answering my questions I will repeat them (yet again): Any photographs of crematoria on the border? Satellite industries/camps devoted to utilzing slave labor? Who have I defended in this thread that has created concentrarion camps? Please provide a quote as I somehow missed that - unless dementia has set in. If you would like me to bold and underline them I am more than willing to do that to help you. @cody As if the definition of what it is makes whats happening there any less awful. I will ask you this too - would you rather be in a Nazi camp (your choice - I am nothing if not generous) or one of the ones on the border? Conditions there are certainly less awful than any number of places I can think of. Edited February 10, 2020 by Wandering Tellurian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,324 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Californication said: Are you not entertained! Sometimes the cruel part of me likes nothing better than stepping on baby chicks (metaphorically of course - lest anyone feels like reporting me to that somewhat ethically suspect PETA group.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) I am not responding because your questions are silly. You put up a definition, the concentration camps at the border fulfill the definition. Everything else your saying is nonsense. It doesn't matter what images you conjur up in your head. That does not change the definition. Edited February 10, 2020 by Californication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,545 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 This all boiled down into semantics in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Kguillemette said: This all boiled down into semantics in a hurry. What does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln | 230 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Californication said: What does that mean? It means the guy above is derailing the conversation by arguing what a concentration camp is, something that is already settled and agreed upon, rather than discussing Trump putting people in concentration camps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,545 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Californication said: What does that mean? This isn't some trick where we are about to get into an argument about what semantics means, is it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 No, I just don't understand the point you are trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,324 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Californication said: I am not responding because your questions are silly. You put up a definition, the concentration camps at the border fulfill the definition. Everything else your saying is nonsense. It doesn't matter what images you conjur up in your head. That does not change the definition. You are the one who accused me of supporting an unnamed someone who created concentration camps. I ask for proof of this (since you directly impugned me this is in no way unreasonable) and now it is silly since you very likely (actually certainly) can't prove it. Actually sounds more like someone can't back up their defamatory statement and is making excuses, You are the one who stated that the camps on the border were concentration camps - per the definition I provided in order for that to be true there should be crematoria and satellite work camps. So the proof is kinda on you. What is the death rate* - does it even approach any of the Nazi camps? Just because you (apparently) can't follow my reasoning doesn't mean it is silly/conjured. Arch Angel (we have tangled before) seems to be able to follow it (even if he doesn't agree). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup | 2,405 Administrator · Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Californication said: No, I just don't understand the point you are trying to make. The point he is trying to make, is that any meaningful discussion in here has deteriorated to arguments about a very specific word/phrase choice. Any substantive or constructive conversations that could be had, are completely lost in the mess of back-and-forth arguing about exactly what defines a 'concentration camp' - literally, figuratively, etc. His comment wasn't specifically about you - it was about the entire back-and-forth exchange on the subject which makes everyone want to completely disengage from this thread (if they hadn't already). Regardless of who is "right" or has the "better" argument in a situation like this, most people are really turned off by the nit-picking and semantics discussion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,324 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, Kguillemette said: This all boiled down into semantics in a hurry. That and more than a bit of history that people either don't know (or pretend not to know) or understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,545 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Lincoln said: It means the guy above is derailing the conversation by arguing what a concentration camp is, something that is already settled and agreed upon, rather than discussing Trump putting people in concentration camps. When someone says concentration camps, i immediately think holocaust. I think Wandering tellurian deserves a little bit more empathy for his reaction to the term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, spacepup said: The point he is trying to make, is that any meaningful discussion in here has deteriorated to arguments about a very specific word/phrase choice. Any substantive or constructive conversations that could be had, are completely lost in the mess of back-and-forth arguing about exactly what defines a 'concentration camp' - literally, figuratively, etc. His comment wasn't specifically about you - it was about the entire back-and-forth exchange on the subject which makes everyone want to completely disengage from this thread (if they hadn't already). Regardless of who is "right" or has the "better" argument in a situation like this, most people are really turned off by the nit-picking and semantics discussion. See, that is not what he meant. He meant that he is thinks Tellurian is more right and that, using a definition to describe something, is semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,545 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Californication said: See, that is not what he meant. He meant that he is thinks Tellurian is more right and that, using a definition to describe something, is semantics. Oh for heaven's sake. Everyone is wrong here. New topic. Pry my gun from my cold dead hand. Go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup | 2,405 Administrator · Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Sorry Kguill - maybe I misinterpreted. That is how I started viewing the thread hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,545 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Edit: I'm trying to help you guys moderate a debate that is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,324 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, spacepup said: Regardless of who is "right" or has the "better" argument in a situation like this, most people are really turned off by tthehe nit-picking and semantics discussion. Not nit picking at all - the use of concentraion camps as a descriptive is a deliberate piece of perjorative propaganda (not initiated by folks here - been around much longer than this place as) used by certain politicians and portions of the media. The very images trying to be conjured up with the phrase are the ones that supposedly don't exist. Kind of a conundrum isn't it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) It's okay. I am good for now. You're fine kguillette, whatever you meant. Edited February 10, 2020 by Californication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup | 2,405 Administrator · Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Wandering Tellurian said: Not nit picking at all - the use of concentraion camps as a descriptive is a deliberate piece of perjorative propaganda (not initiated by folks here - been around much longer than this place as) used by certain politicians and portions of the media. The very images trying to be conjured up with the phrase are the ones that supposedly don't exist. Kind of a conundrum isn't it? I would agree with you that, regardless of any technical definition of the word - I think describing them as concentration camps does indeed elicit a certain reaction, as most people think of the Holocaust when they hear that term. And I agree also that some people do intentionally use exaggerated vocabulary in order to misrepresent, persuade, or manipulate others. At any rate, I think the last few pages in here (and perhaps beyond), have ebbed and flowed a bit past the 'friendly debate' territory into a bit of tension and aggressiveness from some in here in a few cases. This isn't a comment to you, but a general observation for the thread and the community in general: I think it's important to remember that, sometimes different sides or perspectives get to a point where there isn't really a whole lot of room for much progress. When that point is reached, it starts to turn a bit sour because neither side is willing to adjust --- or not even that sometimes --- but just that the differences in philosophies or opinions is just pretty strong. Sometimes that is the point to move on. When people can't accept that and won't move on, people who might otherwise be interested in following, or learning something, or even contributing, get completely turned off and just ignore it and leave with a negative taste in their mouths. I definitely reached that point with this thread long ago and I'm not even sure what the true discussions are even about any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,324 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, spacepup said: I think it's important to remember that, sometimes different sides or perspectives get to a point where there isn't really a whole lot of room for much progress. When that point is reached, it starts to turn a bit sour because neither side is willing to adjust --- or not even that sometimes --- but just that the differences in philosophies or opinions is just pretty strong. Sometimes that is the point to move on. When people can't accept that and won't move on, people who might otherwise be interested in following, or learning something, or even contributing, get completely turned off and just ignore it and leave with a negative taste in their mouths. I definitely reached that point with this thread long ago and I'm not even sure what the true discussions are even about any more. As the only certified old f**k on the board I distincly remember a distant time when who you voted for didn't mean a declararion of war - you might have talked about it but it had about as much impact as whether you preferred a Ford or a Dodge. In other words you would maybe go out, have a beer, talk about who you were going to vote for and then have another beer and talk about women (or whatever). I suspect it has to do with the polarization of things that the two party system has (predictably) resulted in. What I find most distressing in the sheer hatred manifest towards leaders (not just here but just about everywhere else) - unless they are on you side in which case it is ok for yours to do what the other side is doing/has done. To get to the point where you wish someone would die is just pathetic (not really aiming at anyone in particular) IMHO. While I immensely disliked Obama (and the second Bush also - I am still trying to decide which of the two is the worst president in my life time - at least when I decide I will know who is second worstI) I certainly never wished any physical harm to come to him. I think people here tend to argue what someone has dictated what their political stances should be and they can't be seen as deviating from that set of positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,516 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Kguillemette said: New topic. Pry my gun from my cold dead hand. Go. "Your proposal is acceptable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,324 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tulpa said: "Your proposal is acceptable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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