CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Interesting development over the last 24 hours. I'm curious what some of the forum members opinions are on this? I assume this is allowed and I'd expect forum members to treat others with respect. If not, mods, feel free to close this topic. But This is the Everything Else section and I'm genuinely curious what others here have to say about this. Edited December 19, 2019 by CodysGameRoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,317 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I think it is going to be a tempest in a teapot. One of two things are going to happen -the Senate is going to just dismiss it out of hand in a perfunctory manner. Or the Senate will do a lengthy procedure where they can seriously embarrass the Democrats and how this all went down. In either scenario I think the Democrats have damaged themselves vis a vis a good chunk of the populace (not the true believers in the base - what used to be called yellow dog Democrats) that will quite possible manifest itself in the 2020 elections. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 2,949 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 As someone who has no idea how USA's version of "democracy" works, I had to look up what this meant, and it seems like something that (probably) doesn't really have any consequences at all? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I would expect this has no chance in hell of clearing the Senate since it's about half Republican and they need the 2/3rd vote. I have vague memories of the Bill Clinton impeachment, but I seriously doubt Trump gets removed. What is more interesting is that Clinton's impeachment was in his second term. This is Trump's first. You have to think this severely hurts his chances of re-election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, jonebone said: You have to think this severely hurts his chances of re-election. This is probably the question I am most intrigued by. Will the older generation see that he's been impeached and stop supporting him? Or will his younger supporters be outraged and turn out in even greater numbers? I'm REALLY curious to see how this all goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,317 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sumez said: As someone who has no idea how USA's version of "democracy" works, I had to look up what this meant, and it seems like something that (probably) doesn't really have any consequences at all? We are actually (in theory anyway - sometimes I am not so sure) a representative democrary. If the Senate were to vote yes then the President would be removed from office. The procedure can (and has been) used against other Federal officeholders. IIRC only a few judges have been removed vis this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone3969 | 304 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sumez said: As someone who has no idea how USA's version of "democracy" works, I had to look up what this meant, and it seems like something that (probably) doesn't really have any consequences at all? No consequences unless the Senate votes to remove the President, which will not happen as the Republicans have a majority in the Senate. There have been three presidents impeached and the the previous two have not been removed form office and neither will the current. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNESNESCUBE64 | 537 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Without getting into whether or not he should have been impeached, I'm not going to discuss. HOWEVER, one thing I would like to point out is that it seems that our representatives are not interested in the interests of the people, but rather the party they associate with. If you look at the count, not a single republican voted yes on whether or not Trump should have been impeached yet nearly every democrat voted yes. So this vote seems to me to be more of a party thing rather than if Trump actually did anything wrong. That's the real tragedy of it all... 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH | 4,903 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Sumez said: As someone who has no idea how USA's version of "democracy" works, I had to look up what this meant, and it seems like something that (probably) doesn't really have any consequences at all? Lol, I really appreciate hearing that. In the past 25 or so years, the idea of impeaching a president has become more and more pervasive. The shortest explanation of it for someone out side of the US is that it's the first of multiple major steps to removing a president. But, with that said, our government was designed so that it would be difficult. Removing a president (regardless of party) is essentially going against the voting will of the people, so something has to have had a MAJOR change since a president has been inaugurated for it to be justified in removing him from office. You can't say that it's without consequence. There will probably-certainly be no direct consequence for Donald Trump, but considering that a large percentage of the American people and, arguably, the majority feel that this is a political sham, the likely biggest consequence will be that the seriousness of impeachment could be lost in the future, and impeachment proceedings might become more frequent as a way to politically game the system, rather than legitimately raise concerns regarding highly illegal content engaged in by a seated president. Edited December 19, 2019 by RH 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorEncore | 3,691 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 For being a major political party in one of the largest democracies in the world, the Democratic Party is absolutely terrible at politics. They have burned through every bit of political capital they had to push impeachment through the House, knowing full well that not a single Republican in the Senate will support removing Trump from office. I dislike Trump, I think he's a terrible human being and a worse president, and he absolutely committed a crime. Even with all that, I believe impeachment was a mistake. The Democrats will leave this entire process looking like fools and set Trump up for a repeat win in 2020. Trump being impeached means nothing to his base and will actually galvanize them to get out and vote purely out of spite. Meanwhile, the Democratic Party tears itself apart as the moderates and progressives become more adversarial every day. This country desperately needs a third major party. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone3969 | 304 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, jonebone said: I would expect this has no chance in hell of clearing the Senate since it's about half Republican and they need the 2/3rd vote. I have vague memories of the Bill Clinton impeachment, but I seriously doubt Trump gets removed. What is more interesting is that Clinton's impeachment was in his second term. This is Trump's first. You have to think this severely hurts his chances of re-election. I think it could help his chances of getting re-elected as this should rile up his base even more and could make the Democrats look bad. Wasn't Clinton even more popular after he was impeached? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone3969 | 304 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, DoctorEncore said: For being a major political party in one of the largest democracies in the world, the Democratic Party is absolutely terrible at politics. They have burned through every bit of political capital they had to push impeachment through the House, knowing full well that not a single Republican in the Senate will support removing Trump from office. I dislike Trump, I think he's a terrible human being and a worse president, and he absolutely committed a crime. Even with all that, I believe impeachment was a mistake. The Democrats will leave this entire process looking like fools and set Trump up for a repeat win in 2020. Trump being impeached means nothing to his base and will actually galvanize them to get out and vote purely out of spite. Meanwhile, the Democratic Party tears itself apart as the moderates and progressives become more adversarial every day. This country desperately needs a third major party. Well said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorEncore | 3,691 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said: This is probably the question I am most intrigued by. Will the older generation see that he's been impeached and stop supporting him? Or will his younger supporters be outraged and turn out in even greater numbers? I'm REALLY curious to see how this all goes down. I think this will galvanize his base and lead to re-election. The Democrats have made yet another tactical error (huge waste of time and resources) that will be used heavily against them during the next presidential election. The Democratic Party is just bad at politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH | 4,903 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SNESNESCUBE64 said: Without getting into whether or not he should have been impeached, I'm not going to discuss. HOWEVER, one thing I would like to point out is that it seems that our representatives are not interested in the interests of the people, but rather the party they associate with. If you look at the count, not a single republican voted yes on whether or not Trump should have been impeached yet nearly every democrat voted yes. So this vote seems to me to be more of a party thing rather than if Trump actually did anything wrong. That's the real tragedy of it all... Not choosing sides, but I'd slightly deviate from that. I think the Democrats care about their party, while the Republicans are shifting to be a party that is trying to align with it's constituents and listening to their opinions, rather than just towing the Republican party line. I see this in characters like Lindsey Graham. The guy has been a huge supporter and "warrior" of Trump, but let's not forget 12 years ago he was basically the Southern "John McCain" and went in direct opposition of his conservative, South Carolina constituency and supported amnesty laws for illegal immigrants. That was probably his biggest offense to his supporters, but that's not the only time he broke away from the typical beliefs of his constituency. I think he's changed because he's politically smart. He knows that without being a major Trump supporter, he could easily be ousted in South Carolina. I think other long-standing Republicans might see this as well, because a lot of "new blood" has come into office in the past 10 years. Long standing Republicans are having a tough time towing the party line when their constituency really wants politicians who will actually fight Democrats, rather than conceding or even negotiating with them. Edited December 19, 2019 by RH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNESNESCUBE64 | 537 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, RH said: Not choosing sides, but I'd slightly deviate from that. I think the Democrats care about their party, while the Republicans are shifting to be a party that is trying to align with it's constituents and listening to their opinions, rather than just towing the Republican party line. I see this in characters like Lindsey Graham. The guy has a been a huge supporter and "warrior" of Trump, but let's not forget 12 years ago he was basically the Southern "John McCain" and went in direct opposition of his conservative, South Carolina constituency and supported amnesty laws for illegal immigrants. That was probably his biggest offense to his supporters, but that's not the only time he broke away from the typical beliefs of his constituency. I think he's changed because he politically smart. He knows that without being a major Trump supporter, he could easily be ousted in South Carolina. I think other long-standing Republicans might see this as well, because a lot of "new blood" has come into office in the past 10 years. Long standing Republicans are having a tough time towing the party line when their constituency really wants politicians who will actually fight Democrats, rather than conceding or even negotiating with them. And that speaks to how polarized our political climate is right now. It's a case of "you are either with us or against us". It's ultimately dangerous for the well being of the nation. What needs to happen is people need to sit down and find a happy medium... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a3quit4s | 4,096 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Whatever happens with Trump we really need to dial down this whole Democrat/Republican thing. It’s one thing to have opinions but blindly following a party is downright dangerous. It’s fine to be affiliated but god damn use common sense and form your own opinions. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone3969 | 304 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 What I really want to know is how this will impact the retro game market. I am gonna have to ask Jim from Go Collect. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 2,949 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said: Trump being impeached means nothing to his base and will actually galvanize them to get out and vote purely out of spite. That's the only conclusion I've been able to draw, too. 50 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said: This country desperately needs a third major party. How about allowing coalition goverments, making room for a potential multi-party system in the first place? This two-party structure really feels like a comic book version of democracy. Like several people have been saying here, this whole "with us or against us" thing is harmful to politics. Edited December 19, 2019 by Sumez 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange | 1,700 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Where were you all when the President was impeached? I was playing Shinobii III, of course, weren’t the rest of you...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH | 4,903 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, The Strangest said: Where were you all when the President was impeached? I was playing Shinobii III, of course, weren’t the rest of you...? Sleeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange | 1,700 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 On a more serious note, everyone knows he won’t be removed. No president has ever been removed after being impeached. This still was a necessary action. That being said, I did read that the proceedings are being held until there’s proof of a fair trial from the Senate. That’s a smart move. The Senate outright saying it won’t be a fair trial and that they’ll defend the President regardless is disgusting, to say the least. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabonga | 2,317 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sumez said: That's the only conclusion I've been able to draw, too. How about allowing coalition goverments, making room for a potential multi-party system in the first place? This two-party structure really feels like a comic book version of democracy. There is nothing in the constitution against having a multi-party system. (There have been a few brief periods where we have had three viable parties.) The two parties have gerrymandered things (vis state laws) that make it very hard for a third party to gain any real traction - that would represent a threat to both of them since under the current way of doing business both parties know that if they aren't in power now they will be again in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 2,949 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) That's why I'm talking coalitions. It's a pretty common way to form a democratic government. Of course I don't know if anything in American law actually prevents it, but from what I'm told it's not possible to form one in the US. Edited December 19, 2019 by Sumez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,492 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said: I think this will galvanize his base and lead to re-election. His base is already galvanized. They're voting for him regardless of what happened. The question is how this will play to the independents and the Democrats that voted for him in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,492 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sumez said: That's why I'm talking coalitions. It's a pretty common way to form a democratic government. Of course I don't know if anything in American law actually prevents it, but from what I'm told it's not possible to form one in the US. It's possible to form one, just highly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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