Limited Run Games

[Reed Rothchild | 9,550]

1 hour ago, Shmup said:

I don’t think we’ll see too much pullback on the CIB price because people still want the original for either their full GB CIB set or if they’re just curating a nice collection of GB CIB games then they want Shantae because it’s a good game.

Maybe I’m viewing this release wrong, but I kind of see this LRG GB Shantae as a legal version of a reproduction. It wouldn’t count as part of the full set if you had the LRG version over the original, would it?

I'd call every single "official" retro cart released in the last few years a glorified repro.  Which is fine if that is the sort of thing you want to collect.

[Brickman | 3,995]

21 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I'd call every single "official" retro cart released in the last few years a glorified repro.  Which is fine if that is the sort of thing you want to collect.

Yeah that was my thoughts too. So I don’t think there will be too much decrease in price for Shantae then.

[phart010 | 1,708]

I’m totally happy with the glorified repro. Eventually will get all the games I want, just pacing myself.. but this rerelease is good enough to satisfy my need for Shantae GBC

Wow what a value. It’s CIB, brand new sealed for only $45

[RH | 4,924]

20 hours ago, phart010 said:

This looks like Duke Nukem 

It looks like Duke because it basically is Duke.  They used the same engine, which has been maintained by fans for decades and has had upgrades so textures can look better, and other QAL improvements but, for the most part, for 25 years they've tried to keep the look and feel the same.  

[avatar! | 1,820]

15 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I'd call every single "official" retro cart released in the last few years a glorified repro.  Which is fine if that is the sort of thing you want to collect.

If the game was never released on the NES, you can not call it a reproduction. While some are reproductions - such as Shantae, others such as Holy Diver are not reproductions. And of course homebrews are not reproductions either. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,550]

3 minutes ago, avatar! said:

If the game was never released on the NES, you can not call it a reproduction. While some are reproductions - such as Shantae, others such as Holy Diver are not reproductions. And of course homebrews are not reproductions either. 

Seems like semantics

[Tabonga | 2,324]

I just signed on to back this:

There are only 4 spots left to back at the 65 pound level - which is the cheapest level to get a physical switch copy.

 

[avatar! | 1,820]

1 minute ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Seems like semantics

A reproduction is by definition a copy. If something is released for the first time, it's not a reproduction by definition. You can call it semantics but I think this does matter for some (perhaps many) collectors. 

I do think licensed reproductions have brought the cost of original carts down. I don't know if this will have any lasting impact on a game like Shantae which is very rare, but then again, personally I don't care too much it's more interesting to me than anything else since I would never spend $1k on a game to begin with  

[Reed Rothchild | 9,550]

2 hours ago, avatar! said:

A reproduction is by definition a copy. If something is released for the first time, it's not a reproduction by definition. You can call it semantics but I think this does matter for some (perhaps many) collectors. 

I do think licensed reproductions have brought the cost of original carts down. I don't know if this will have any lasting impact on a game like Shantae which is very rare, but then again, personally I don't care too much it's more interesting to me than anything else since I would never spend $1k on a game to begin with  

Avatar channeling his inner arch_8ngel.

Repro is a common term used to describe all such carts.  Including translations of never-released-in-America titles.  But if you want to get pedantic about the word, fine...

"I'd call every single "official" retro cart released in the last few years a glorified repro/bootleg/fanmade cart.  Which is fine if that is the sort of thing you want to collect."

[avatar! | 1,820]

37 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Avatar channeling his inner arch_8ngel.

Repro is a common term used to describe all such carts.  Including translations of never-released-in-America titles.  But if you want to get pedantic about the word, fine...

"I'd call every single "official" retro cart released in the last few years a glorified repro/bootleg/fanmade cart.  Which is fine if that is the sort of thing you want to collect."

Well, sure. I've seen hacks called homebrews, repros, etc. I think the terminology gets confused sometimes, and other times it's up for interpretation. Myself, I view a repro as by definition a copy, and if there wasn't an NES release in the first place then it's an original, like Holy Diver which was released by Retro-bit. I've seen some heated debates about this in the past, and I suspect much of the "animosity" (shall we say) comes from people who want their originals to keep appreciating in value. I honestly don't even know if in the long run such releases will have a lasting affect on prices, but I do think it's a disservice to call them "glorified repros" or "repros" since most repros are unauthorized copies - bootlegs. It's like copying a CD or movie and saying that the copy is the same as an official release -clearly that is NOT the case. Same thing here, an official licensed release is just that, and it shouldn't be confused with a term that is is synonymous with bootleg. 

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

5 hours ago, avatar! said:

Well, sure. I've seen hacks called homebrews, repros, etc. I think the terminology gets confused sometimes, and other times it's up for interpretation. Myself, I view a repro as by definition a copy, and if there wasn't an NES release in the first place then it's an original, like Holy Diver which was released by Retro-bit. I've seen some heated debates about this in the past, and I suspect much of the "animosity" (shall we say) comes from people who want their originals to keep appreciating in value. I honestly don't even know if in the long run such releases will have a lasting affect on prices, but I do think it's a disservice to call them "glorified repros" or "repros" since most repros are unauthorized copies - bootlegs. It's like copying a CD or movie and saying that the copy is the same as an official release -clearly that is NOT the case. Same thing here, an official licensed release is just that, and it shouldn't be confused with a term that is is synonymous with bootleg. 

I'm glad someone else is standing up for this. I would also extend this to homebrew because what's the difference between a homebrew and an unlicensed game? Is Caltron a homebrew? I've heard people say it has to be before the NES stopped production, so does that mean Beauty And The Beast is a homebrew? That game came out 1 year before the N64 was released. That's right, not the SNES, the N64.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Code Monkey

[Sumez | 2,968]

Although bootleg is typically used to describe illicit reproductions, I wish people wouldn't use that term to describe what is essentially bootlegs.

But creating a new, licensed release for an old game that already exists on that platform, that is a reproduction in my book.
Even if the are making changes to the branding, cartridge shape, PCB used or whatever. You gotta have a threshold if you don't want to exclude everything that isn't a complete 1:1 copy, and to me what matters is the software, as that's the core of this product. If Shantae and Holy Diver aren't reproductions I don't know what is.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Sumez

[Sumez | 2,968]

1 hour ago, Code Monkey said:

I've heard people say it has to be before the NES stopped production, so does that mean Beauty And The Beast is a homebrew? That game came out 1 year before the N64 was released. That's right, not the SNES, the N64.

That's nuts, considering homebrew historically refered primarily to hobby programming for contemporary platforms. Basically anything that circumvents the official/standardized channels for developing on a system that has such.  

I guess you could say the difference between NES homebrew those than aren't, is the same as the difference between actual homebrew and established microbreweries.

[MiamiSlice | 3,098]

10 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I'm glad someone else is standing up for this. I would also extend this to homebrew because what's the difference between a homebrew and an unlicensed game? Is Caltron a homebrew? I've heard people say it has to be before the NES stopped production, so does that mean Beauty And The Beast is a homebrew? That game came out 1 year before the N64 was released. That's right, not the SNES, the N64.

I'm not sure what exactly people are using as the threshold here, but my question is, did Nintendo still have the manufacturing to print the carts for Beauty and the Beast? Because my understanding is Nintendo always does the manufacturing for games on their consoles. Tengen, Wisdom Tree and a few other publishers managed to print some carts themselves, and there's obviously disagreement on how those are categorized in these discussions (I don't think people count Wisdom Tree Game Boy games as part of a full set), but the point is that there are official authentic components that go into carts (the PCBs, shells, and labels) and packaging, which all come from Nintendo, and anything printed on other components, or modifying an official cart with a different PCB, is "bootleg" or "reproduction." So Beauty and the Beast must have been a licensed release with Nintendo, right? I mean it has the SoQ on the label... 

Similarly, Vblank just did a print of Retro City Rampage and Shakedown Hawaii for Wii. Nintendo had already ceased production of Wii games for North America at the time Vblank approached them but there was a small window left to print them for Europe. So Vblank had the games printed for Europe. These are official games from the Nintendo factory, even though the Wii is not being made anymore. You might remember prior to this the most recent Wii game (also an official print) was Just Dance 2020 with a standard retail release. 

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

9 minutes ago, MiamiSlice said:

I'm not sure what exactly people are using as the threshold here, but my question is, did Nintendo still have the manufacturing to print the carts for Beauty and the Beast? Because my understanding is Nintendo always does the manufacturing for games on their consoles. Tengen, Wisdom Tree and a few other publishers managed to print some carts themselves, and there's obviously disagreement on how those are categorized in these discussions (I don't think people count Wisdom Tree Game Boy games as part of a full set), but the point is that there are official authentic components that go into carts (the PCBs, shells, and labels) and packaging, which all come from Nintendo, and anything printed on other components, or modifying an official cart with a different PCB, is "bootleg" or "reproduction." So Beauty and the Beast must have been a licensed release with Nintendo, right? I mean it has the SoQ on the label... 

Similarly, Vblank just did a print of Retro City Rampage and Shakedown Hawaii for Wii. Nintendo had already ceased production of Wii games for North America at the time Vblank approached them but there was a small window left to print them for Europe. So Vblank had the games printed for Europe. These are official games from the Nintendo factory, even though the Wii is not being made anymore. You might remember prior to this the most recent Wii game (also an official print) was Just Dance 2020 with a standard retail release. 

Unfortunately that logic doesn't play out with NES games. For example Akklaim at some point made their own PCBs and Cart shells on their own and produced games like Bart vs.... series. Konami also made their own PCBs. All these games are official releases. So just using a "Nintendo did the manufacturing" doesn't hold.

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

Considering that they have an agreement with the developer to print these games, I don't see them as any different from any other print run beyond the original.  In other words, they are just another variant.  I personally don't use the term "repro" because I only use it for unauthorized reproductions.  But since there is no universally accepted definition for "repro," some people use it for any reproduction of the original (and I personally don't care if you use this definition).  However, based on that logic, a grey cart Legend of Zelda and a yellow label Metroid are both repros.  The LRG print of Shantae for the GBC will always be a less desirable version, and therefore worth much less than the original.  However, since it's a variant of the original, I would count it towards the full set. 

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,014]

48 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

However, since it's a variant of the original, I would count it towards the full set

Would you count the iam8bit releases towards the NES full set? Or even the TimeWalk Ducktales release? Just wondering

To me, they're after market games. They weren't released during the period and thus don't count towards the set. 

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

4 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Would you count the iam8bit releases towards the NES full set? Or even the TimeWalk Ducktales release? Just wondering

 

I don't know the specific games you are talking about so I can't say.

 

5 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

To me, they're after market games. They weren't released during the period and thus don't count towards the set. 

That's a fair argument, but it opens up a entire new can of worms:  define the "period" (and make sure EVERYONE agrees with you).

 

 

[Code Monkey | 2,011]

2 hours ago, MiamiSlice said:

I'm not sure what exactly people are using as the threshold here, but my question is, did Nintendo still have the manufacturing to print the carts for Beauty and the Beast? Because my understanding is Nintendo always does the manufacturing for games on their consoles. Tengen, Wisdom Tree and a few other publishers managed to print some carts themselves, and there's obviously disagreement on how those are categorized in these discussions (I don't think people count Wisdom Tree Game Boy games as part of a full set), but the point is that there are official authentic components that go into carts (the PCBs, shells, and labels) and packaging, which all come from Nintendo, and anything printed on other components, or modifying an official cart with a different PCB, is "bootleg" or "reproduction." So Beauty and the Beast must have been a licensed release with Nintendo, right? I mean it has the SoQ on the label... 

Similarly, Vblank just did a print of Retro City Rampage and Shakedown Hawaii for Wii. Nintendo had already ceased production of Wii games for North America at the time Vblank approached them but there was a small window left to print them for Europe. So Vblank had the games printed for Europe. These are official games from the Nintendo factory, even though the Wii is not being made anymore. You might remember prior to this the most recent Wii game (also an official print) was Just Dance 2020 with a standard retail release. 

It was the final licensed game, that's why I referenced it.

[avatar! | 1,820]

1 hour ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Would you count the iam8bit releases towards the NES full set? Or even the TimeWalk Ducktales release? Just wondering

To me, they're after market games. They weren't released during the period and thus don't count towards the set. 

I think it depends on what you mean by "set". As TDIRunner pointed out, there is a grey line -  that is where do you draw the line between market and after market? Ultimately, the fact is that games are still being made for the NES - and I personally think it's super exciting. If you want a "complete set" in my opinion you'll need to purchase these so-called "after market" games. In my opinion Homebrews absolutely count as official releases, same for licensed games such as Holy Diver. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by avatar!

[DarkTone | 986]

Reminds me of starfox 2. 

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

2 hours ago, avatar! said:

I think it depends on what you mean by "set". As TDIRunner pointed out, there is a grey line -  that is where do you draw the line between market and after market? Ultimately, the fact is that games are still being made for the NES - and I personally think it's super exciting. If you want a "complete set" in my opinion you'll need to purchase these so-called "after market" games. In my opinion Homebrews absolutely count as official releases, same for licensed games such as Holy Diver. 

I think the general consensus was that it had to be licensed by nintendo as well not just a publisher. Homebrew is unlicensed to begin with and a thing all unlicensed games have in common, bootleg or not, is they either require the use of potentially damaging voltage spikes to the NES security chip, require you to disable said chip, or utilize a clone chip made from illicitly sourced code that Nintendo( I assume) still owns 

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

31 minutes ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

I think the general consensus was that it had to be licensed by nintendo as well not just a publisher. 

There is definitely NOT a general consensus on that.  This is where I would normally say "See Nintendo Age debates," but unfortunately there isn't much to see there anymore.  But that doesn't change the fact that there hasn't been nor will there ever be a general consensus on that.  

[Sir Centroid | 79]

On 10/11/2020 at 2:42 PM, avatar! said:

I don't know if this will have any lasting impact on a game like Shantae which is very rare

Just felt like addressing this. Even among only the GBC game library, Shantae is not "Very rare", it's uncommon at best. Cart only or CIB, it doesn't even come close to comparing to a fair portion of the GBC games in terms of "rarity". 

[Sumez | 2,968]

Yea, it's not rare as much as it's overhyped