Heritage Auctions Thread

[doner24 | 1,196]

48 minutes ago, MagusSmurf said:

okay someone needs to be THAT GUY here even if that guy is clearly a jerk

landmark games in nintendo franchises selling for 6 figures is still totally absurd but that would be one thing

madden though? football fans, some of whom are gamers, may care about Madden, but the gaming community in general hasn't even pretended to care in like 15 years.

If you wanted proof that the new collectors aren't "real gamers" you're never gonna find anything better than them thinking NO REALLY GUYS MADDEN IS A TOP TIER FRANCHISE. seriously?

It’s one of the best selling franchises in the history of gaming, and contributes to sell tons of copies every year  

[MagusSmurf | 577]

2 minutes ago, doner24 said:

It’s one of the best selling franchises in the history of gaming, and contributes to sell tons of copies every year  

100% correct

but also not really a response to anything I said

(one correction, the gaming community did sorta pretend to care again when John Madden died recently. That was indeed a thing.)

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

1 hour ago, MagusSmurf said:

okay someone needs to be THAT GUY here even if that guy is clearly a jerk

landmark games in nintendo franchises selling for 6 figures is still totally absurd but that would be one thing

madden though? football fans, some of whom are gamers, may care about Madden, but the gaming community in general hasn't even pretended to care in like 15 years.

If you wanted proof that the new collectors aren't "real gamers" you're never gonna find anything better than them thinking NO REALLY GUYS MADDEN IS A TOP TIER FRANCHISE. seriously?

I know this is a whole different topic, but what exactly is a "real gamer?" 

[MagusSmurf | 577]

a true scotsman who plays real games, obviously

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

7 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

I know this is a whole different topic, but what exactly is a "real gamer?" 

A person who puts the emphasis of playing a game before any hype, value, and/or even fame they can gain by owning a certain game or series (graded or otherwise). Because in the end owning said game (or series/franchise) is one thing. What they got out of it by playing it to any limits is what matters to them the most.

[Gulag Joe | 584]

31 minutes ago, Kguillemette said:

I know this is a whole different topic, but what exactly is a "real gamer?" 

A real gamer accuses everyone else of hacking

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

15 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

A person who puts the emphasis of playing a game before any hype, value, and/or even fame they can gain by owning a certain game or series (graded or otherwise). Because in the end owning said game (or series/franchise) is one thing. What they got out of it by playing it to any limits is what matters to them the most.

Would it be fair to say people who play Madden games are exactly such people? 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

2 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

Would it be fair to say people who play Madden games are exactly such people? 

Nope. Just... Nope.

With Madden you have players and then you have gamers. Players will play the game, get what they want out of it, and eventually sell/trade it for a different game. A gamer is one that will return to the game when they need a challenge, a fix, or something else that the previous version offers.

[inasuma | 1,203]

6 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

I know this is a whole different topic, but what exactly is a "real gamer?" 

elitist and subjective descriptor meant to demean other nerds who don't truly appreciate games  

leave it to bullied nerds taking out their childhood trauma and superiority fantasies as adults  

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

6 hours ago, FenrirZero said:

Nope. Just... Nope.

With Madden you have players and then you have gamers. Players will play the game, get what they want out of it, and eventually sell/trade it for a different game. A gamer is one that will return to the game when they need a challenge, a fix, or something else that the previous version offers.

To make sure I understand you correctly, "real gamers" keep their games and "players," aka "people who play Madden games," trade or sell their games in when done with them. So it is defined by you as primarily a money spending habit and secondly as how great the urge is to replay old games as opposed to primarily playing new or updated ones, correct?

 

[jonebone | 1,307]

12 hours ago, MagusSmurf said:

okay someone needs to be THAT GUY here even if that guy is clearly a jerk

landmark games in nintendo franchises selling for 6 figures is still totally absurd but that would be one thing

madden though? football fans, some of whom are gamers, may care about Madden, but the gaming community in general hasn't even pretended to care in like 15 years.

If you wanted proof that the new collectors aren't "real gamers" you're never gonna find anything better than them thinking NO REALLY GUYS MADDEN IS A TOP TIER FRANCHISE. seriously?

I'm a Madden collector and have been for well over a decade.  Have the only confirmed NES prototype, many high grade sealed games of his as well.  It's always been more niche than Mario / Zelda, but there's been Madden collectors around.  One was JD Heins (RIP), old NA speedrunner and Madden collector.  Another was busdriverj (sp?) who just did CIB but he got all the releases I believe.  

The commons CIBs have always been cheap but finding nice high grade sealed copies was never easy.  Sure you had to spend $100s instead of $1000s ($10s of thousands now?) but there was still some demand there.  

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

Just now, Kguillemette said:

To make sure I understand you correctly, "real gamers" keep their games and "players," aka "people who play Madden games," trade or sell their games in when done with them. So it is defined by you as primarily a money spending habit and secondly as how great the urge is to replay old games as opposed to primarily playing new or updated ones, correct?

 

Mostly yes.

At the end of the day those who prefer playing games for the sake of playing them are prone to get some type of entertainment value out of these games. So it is more about that, and less about their spending habits. Which tends to be no different than them renting a game from a financial perspective.

Where as a gamer in the video game world is just an extension of those who play board games, tabletop roleplaying games, and the like. In those cases there are still gamers out there who'll play D&D 5e with one group, and AD&D 1e with another. In the end it is all about the mechanics of the game and what the player gets out of it.

And also no.

But that is based more on the risks of buying a digital game, as well as ones that are different from their previous version(s). And because I do not play Madden games I cannot say which games had the highest risk of turning potential gamers into players.

[OptOut | 8,889]

The sorts of people who play Madden today ARE the fuggin gamers!!!

The "GAMERS TM" subculture is synonymous with Madden, FIFA, Call of Duty, Counterstrike, Fortnight, Minecraft, and basically every on going billion dollar franchise.

Those are the guys who actually keep the videogame industry afloat by purchasing brand new releases at full price, spazzing out over the latest trailers, and keeping absolutely up to date with the latest industry news outrage. Think Angry Joe and the sort of people who watch his content.

 

Let's face it... If the modern videogame industry was reliant on the sorts of folks who hang out around here, buying games that were out of print 20 years ago and only just now getting into the GameCube and Xbox 360, and who don't even know what a "microtransaction" is, the market would crash quicker than dogecoin! 

[Hammerfestus | 3,852]

I hate when “gamers” get on their high horse.  Acting elitist as if others who don’t spend every moment of their free time absorbed in video games are somehow less.  I probably spend less than 10% of my free time playing games.  It is certainly neither habitual nor compulsive for me.  Does that lessen what I do as a collector?

[OptOut | 8,889]

14 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

I hate when “gamers” get on their high horse.  Acting elitist as if others who don’t spend every moment of their free time absorbed in video games are somehow less.  I probably spend less than 10% of my free time playing games.  It is certainly neither habitual nor compulsive for me.  Does that lessen what I do as a collector?

I mean I certainly consider you my lesser, for a multitude reasons, but the amount of time you spend gaming isn't one of them.

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

3 hours ago, FenrirZero said:

Mostly yes.

At the end of the day those who prefer playing games for the sake of playing them are prone to get some type of entertainment value out of these games. So it is more about that, and less about their spending habits. Which tends to be no different than them renting a game from a financial perspective.

Where as a gamer in the video game world is just an extension of those who play board games, tabletop roleplaying games, and the like. In those cases there are still gamers out there who'll play D&D 5e with one group, and AD&D 1e with another. In the end it is all about the mechanics of the game and what the player gets out of it.

And also no.

But that is based more on the risks of buying a digital game, as well as ones that are different from their previous version(s). And because I do not play Madden games I cannot say which games had the highest risk of turning potential gamers into players.

I'm so confused right now. Playing Madden, or should we encompass all sports games for that matter, risks turning potential gamers into merely players? That just sounds extremely silly to me. 

And gamers buy but players rent? That seems silly also. Who are any of us to judge someone to be a "non-gamer" based on that? Or do you think Madden players have less fun playing games than "true gamers" do? That seems also silly to me. I personally love sports games, would you question whether or not I was a "real gamer"?

In my opinion, "gamer" is a self imposed title. If you think of yourself as a gamer, you are a gamer, and that's that. 

And if you think about it, Madden is a hyper realistic turn and stat based strategy game. And it receives yearly updates to keep it feeling fresh. Gamers and non-gamers alike tend to love and appreciate it, and here in America, it's probably second to Mario as far as important video game franchises are concerned.

[doner24 | 1,196]

18 hours ago, MagusSmurf said:

100% correct

but also not really a response to anything I said

(one correction, the gaming community did sorta pretend to care again when John Madden died recently. That was indeed a thing.)

It answered your response perfectly. The amount of copies it sells shows that gamers certainly do care about it. 

[AdamW | 713]

6 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

I hate when “gamers” get on their high horse.  Acting elitist as if others who don’t spend every moment of their free time absorbed in video games are somehow less.  I probably spend less than 10% of my free time playing games.  It is certainly neither habitual nor compulsive for me.  Does that lessen what I do as a collector?

Yes. Now feel shame!

[inasuma | 1,203]

9 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

I hate when “gamers” get on their high horse.  Acting elitist as if others who don’t spend every moment of their free time absorbed in video games are somehow less.  I probably spend less than 10% of my free time playing games.  It is certainly neither habitual nor compulsive for me.  Does that lessen what I do as a collector?

visibly offended

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

10 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

I'm so confused right now. Playing Madden, or should we encompass all sports games for that matter, risks turning potential gamers into merely players? That just sounds extremely silly to me. 

That's because you are making it sound silly in your head. 

Gamer = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer

"A gamer is a proactive hobbyist who plays interactive games, especially video games, tabletop role-playing games, and skill-based card games, and who plays for usually long periods of time. Some gamers are competitive, meaning they routinely compete in some games for money, prizes, awards or the mere pleasure of competition and overcoming obstacles. In some countries such as the UK and Australia, the term "gaming" can refer to legalized gambling, which can take both traditional and digital forms, through online gambling. There are many different gamer communities around the world. Since the advent of the Internet, many communities take the form of Internet forums or YouTube or Twitch virtual communities, as well as in-person social clubs. Originally a hobby, it has evolved into a profession for some. In 2021, there were an estimated 3.24 billion gamers across the globe."

For example... Me.

Me + Gamer = TRPGs that have both game mechanics and people I can get along with. Because of this, I am willing to do super-long campaigns as long as my PC is alive. (R.I.P. Joe Disposable! ) And CRPGs like the main Dragon Quest series, and others that have turn-based game elements.

Me + Player = All other games that are enjoyable to me (i.e. sports and racing games, and the occasional Action-Adventure game). This side of me is one that wants to play with both players and gamers alike. With Madden players/gamers getting to hear about my time I tried to call my then best friend, but instead called the then Los Angeles Raiders locker room by mistake. 

10 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

And gamers buy but players rent? That seems silly also. Who are any of us to judge someone to be a "non-gamer" based on that? Or do you think Madden players have less fun playing games than "true gamers" do? That seems also silly to me. I personally love sports games, would you question whether or not I was a "real gamer"?

Again, it is only "silly" because you are twisting the facts. While ignoring the fact you never aske me about my own history involving sports games. Which, ironically, makes your claims silly.

The reality is that both have the option to either buy or rent. Gamers will more likely rent a game if there is an alternative to their preferred genre. And a player will more likely buy because they do not have the time to rent. With the difference being that gamers will buy their preferred game when they can, while a player will do what they can in hopes of playing it.

I can go on, but I have a very long history when it comes to this. And is why I aim to buy digitally when games I am interested in are on sale. Something you never asked about for some reason in hopes of understanding me better. 

10 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

In my opinion, "gamer" is a self imposed title. If you think of yourself as a gamer, you are a gamer, and that's that. 

And the rest of the world says otherwise.

Because it comes down to devotion, not the amount of time you play. And those who call themselves gamers are the ones trying to make the most out of their hobby. Just like how a PS1 otaku will own every print variant of every game, while a PS1 collector collects what they want.

Let me point out that Daigo Umehara is a professional gamer. This is what a hardcore gamer can become if they can handle the level of stress needed to go this far. A player is somebody who does not need your appraisal, and instead does what they want to do in hopes of keeping their interest (in games like Madden) both fresh and fun.

10 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

And if you think about it, Madden is a hyper realistic turn and stat based strategy game. And it receives yearly updates to keep it feeling fresh. Gamers and non-gamers alike tend to love and appreciate it, and here in America, it's probably second to Mario as far as important video game franchises are concerned.

That is fine and dandy if we were talking about the fact that Madden is the perfect game for people who play tactical games.  But realistically? People who opt to be players do not have the same lives as those who opt to be devoted gamers. Your dismissals have you ignore that important fact.

Atop of the fact you never asked me about my history in regards to sports games. (love Konami's NPB games) As well as those who devote their time to Madden games. (I would love to play a game with one.)

Because if I had to simplify this, being a gamer is similar to being a parent. While being a player is like being a grandparent who has lives of their own. Both have their benefits, and saying otherwise is just plain... Silly. 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

On 2/2/2022 at 2:10 PM, MagusSmurf said:

(one correction, the gaming community did sorta pretend to care again when John Madden died recently. That was indeed a thing.)

I was not entirely surprised when that happened.

And I say that because nobody gave any fucks when Koichi Sugiyama died, seeing how he was one of the big names in the video game industry. Which did not shock me that when Masayuki Uemara died, nobody said anything. With me saying that because both Japanese creators did not have their names on a sports game box. <-(Not a sarcastic remark.) 

Then again... I am morning over the fact that SEGA is pulling out of the arcade business after 50 years. And what makes that an irony is tied to the fact I only went to those for the claw machine prizes. And Joypolis (for my 40th birthday). All I remember of their Akiba branches are the claw prizes, the weird coin games, and the Derby games. 

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

47 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

That's because you are making it sound silly in your head. 

Gamer = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer

"A gamer is a proactive hobbyist who plays interactive games, especially video games, tabletop role-playing games, and skill-based card games, and who plays for usually long periods of time. Some gamers are competitive, meaning they routinely compete in some games for money, prizes, awards or the mere pleasure of competition and overcoming obstacles. In some countries such as the UK and Australia, the term "gaming" can refer to legalized gambling, which can take both traditional and digital forms, through online gambling. There are many different gamer communities around the world. Since the advent of the Internet, many communities take the form of Internet forums or YouTube or Twitch virtual communities, as well as in-person social clubs. Originally a hobby, it has evolved into a profession for some. In 2021, there were an estimated 3.24 billion gamers across the globe."

For example... Me.

Me + Gamer = TRPGs that have both game mechanics and people I can get along with. Because of this, I am willing to do super-long campaigns as long as my PC is alive. (R.I.P. Joe Disposable! ) And CRPGs like the main Dragon Quest series, and others that have turn-based game elements.

Me + Player = All other games that are enjoyable to me (i.e. sports and racing games, and the occasional Action-Adventure game). This side of me is one that wants to play with both players and gamers alike. With Madden players/gamers getting to hear about my time I tried to call my then best friend, but instead called the then Los Angeles Raiders locker room by mistake. 

Again, it is only "silly" because you are twisting the facts. While ignoring the fact you never aske me about my own history involving sports games. Which, ironically, makes your claims silly.

The reality is that both have the option to either buy or rent. Gamers will more likely rent a game if there is an alternative to their preferred genre. And a player will more likely buy because they do not have the time to rent. With the difference being that gamers will buy their preferred game when they can, while a player will do what they can in hopes of playing it.

I can go on, but I have a very long history when it comes to this. And is why I aim to buy digitally when games I am interested in are on sale. Something you never asked about for some reason in hopes of understanding me better. 

And the rest of the world says otherwise.

Because it comes down to devotion, not the amount of time you play. And those who call themselves gamers are the ones trying to make the most out of their hobby. Just like how a PS1 otaku will own every print variant of every game, while a PS1 collector collects what they want.

Let me point out that Daigo Umehara is a professional gamer. This is what a hardcore gamer can become if they can handle the level of stress needed to go this far. A player is somebody who does not need your appraisal, and instead does what they want to do in hopes of keeping their interest (in games like Madden) both fresh and fun.

That is fine and dandy if we were talking about the fact that Madden is the perfect game for people who play tactical games.  But realistically? People who opt to be players do not have the same lives as those who opt to be devoted gamers. Your dismissals have you ignore that important fact.

Atop of the fact you never asked me about my history in regards to sports games. (love Konami's NPB games) As well as those who devote their time to Madden games. (I would love to play a game with one.)

Because if I had to simplify this, being a gamer is similar to being a parent. While being a player is like being a grandparent who has lives of their own. Both have their benefits, and saying otherwise is just plain... Silly. 

Read the categories and type/demographics section of that Wikipedia article. Madden players don't fit in any of those categories? Seems to me they indeed should fit into several.

On a separate note, I feel your knowledge of gaming history or tastes in games, while I'm sure is impressive, is irrelevant to what constitutes a "real gamer". And as I read the article, I did not see any mention that clarified the difference. If anything, it confirmed that "casual", "core", and "professional" all fall under the umbrella of "gamer." And Madden players are certainly often in one of those categories. 

In my opinion, you are trying to equate the term "real gamer" with "hardcore gamer".

In the same Wikipedia article you link and in the portion you quoted...

"In 2021, there were an estimated 3.24 billion gamers across the globe" That's literally half of combined western and eastern society! If you play games, you are a gamer! I understand some people's feelings with wanting to make the term exclusionary, but that's just not how it is. If you game, you are a gamer.

"Because if I had to simplify this, being a gamer is similar to being a parent. While being a player is like being a grandparent who has lives of their own. Both have their benefits, and saying otherwise is just plain... Silly. "

 

On this I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make here. 

[GetTheGreg | 105]

Nothing better than a semantics argument on a Thursday night.  Who will feel superior in the end?  Let's watch and find out...

 

Also, I "gamed" on madden for like 10 years straight.  Fite me.

[Kguillemette | 1,545]

14 minutes ago, Maertens29 said:

Nothing better than a semantics argument on a Thursday night.  Who will feel superior in the end?  Let's watch and find out...

 

Also, I "gamed" on madden for like 10 years straight.  Fite me.

ZING! You got me.

But seriously, you "played" Madden. You did not game on it. Speaking of which, I'm going to turn on my GameCube for some latenight video play-things. 

Also:

Edited February 4, 2022 by Kguillemette

[OptOut | 8,889]

I have never once heard the term "player" as used to describe people commonly referred to or refering to themselves as "gamer".

Also, who is RENTING video games in 2022? Blockbuster Video went out of business a fuggin decade ago at this point!

This conversation is utterly ridiculous!