Heritage Auctions Thread

[DefaultGen | 5,506]

Was this posted somewhere yet

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/breaking-news-national-video-game?justPublished=true

I’m on the edge of my seat that we might find out who this mysterious “Bronty” character is if we just keep digging. 

[AdamW | 713]

10 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

Was this posted somewhere yet

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/breaking-news-national-video-game?justPublished=true

I’m on the edge of my seat that we might find out who this mysterious “Bronty” character is if we just keep digging. 

Allow me to summarize it:

1. I've got proof that Rich Lecce was a cofounder of WATA, but somehow there is no space in this 10,000 word article to fit it in

2. <clumsy 9000 word retelling of Karl's video>

3. What's this, a bus? Excuse me while I throw Bronty under it for no apparent reason

Edited August 27, 2021 by AdamW

[buttheadrulesagain | 41]

I remember how before NA exploted, WATA emerged to address VGA bullshit, and now they are the ones with bullshit up to the neck.

I hope value plummets like with the coin collecting market and we can buy games for reasonable prices again

[Prime2099 | 176]

This thread blew up quickly, holy cow. One thing I keep seeing mentioned, is that the NA database has been lost. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the days after NA's sale was announced, weren't there some folks that were working to backup the NA database so that all that info wouldn't be lost?

[ICrappedMyPants | 302]

30 minutes ago, AdamW said:

Allow me to summarize it:

1. I've got proof that Rich Lecce was a cofounder of WATA, but somehow there is no space in this 10,000 word article to fit it in

2. <clumsy 9000 word retelling of Karl's video>

3. What's this, a bus? Excuse me while I throw Bronty under it for no apparent reason

He mentions reviewed private correspondence as his proof and that’s it. I need to see receipts to believe it.

[Californication | 1,490]

59 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

Was this posted somewhere yet

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/breaking-news-national-video-game?justPublished=true

I’m on the edge of my seat that we might find out who this mysterious “Bronty” character is if we just keep digging. 

Should someone tell him it's video game sage?

[AdamW | 713]

7 minutes ago, Californication said:

Should someone tell him it's video game sage?

Somewhere, some guy who actually is called Tom Curtain keeps sneezing and wondering what the hell is going on...

[fcgamer | 4,792]

Finally caught up! 

Now time to try to get some work done.

 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,329]

4 hours ago, Maertens29 said:

Jesus, it's becoming a real reunion in here.

All we need now is for NGD to drop by and say something with more typos than words

4 hours ago, Dain_ said:

Next up Braveheart will be here bitchin' about getting outbid by that Giskard duder.

Someone managed to outbid Braveheart on something? Damn, never thought I'd live to see the day!

PS: Good to have you back, even if it's only for a short while.  Been too damn long eh!

3 hours ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

I can't find the hieroglyphics font.

Just go with Wingdings man, pretty much the same thing

[karljobst | 242]

Hi, I created an account here so I can answer questions.

On the topic of Dain, I felt I was quite clear in the video that Dain was previously associated with the company but is not currently. That's why I said "the cherry on top, is that WHEN WATA Games was incorporated in 2017, Dain Anderson WAS the executive officer.". When I was talking about Jeff, I was using current tense (Meyer IS a director). I then further confirm that Dain was no longer with the business by saying "So this entire deal (when the deal took place) happened between 2 men that WERE or are directly involved with the company". I'm very careful with my words, and my words specifically mention that Dain was not a part of the company at the time of the deal taking place. I apologise for not stressing it more, and admittedly, I keep forgetting that it is very easy for people to misunderstand things.

I've since spoken with Dain and nothing he did was wrong, I just felt it was important to mention for transparency. I will be doing an update and I will be making this more clear. I do believe Dain only had good intentions with everything.

Jeff's statement suggests that I called him an employee. This is not correct (again, I'm very careful with my words). The reason I kept bringing up Kahn's quote was to stress the conflict of interest that arises when people associated with the company grade their own games and sell them. Being a Director is WORSE than an employee because you have more influence over the company, and there is more potential for fraud. A director grading their own games in a privileged way and flipping them without telling anyone they are a director is definitely grounds for fraud. At the very least, it should be investigated.

There were a lot of assumptions about my motives or what I do and don't know (a lot of them wrong) but I would love to answer any questions you have.

[GetTheGreg | 105]

4 minutes ago, karljobst said:

Hi, I created an account here so I can answer questions.

On the topic of Dain, I felt I was quite clear in the video that Dain was previously associated with the company but is not currently. That's why I said "the cherry on top, is that WHEN WATA Games was incorporated in 2017, Dain Anderson WAS the executive officer.". When I was talking about Jeff, I was using current tense (Meyer IS a director). I then further confirm that Dain was no longer with the business by saying "So this entire deal (when the deal took place) happened between 2 men that WERE or are directly involved with the company". I'm very careful with my words, and my words specifically mention that Dain was not a part of the company at the time of the deal taking place. I apologise for not stressing it more, and admittedly, I keep forgetting that it is very easy for people to misunderstand things.

I've since spoken with Dain and nothing he did was wrong, I just felt it was important to mention for transparency. I will be doing an update and I will be making this more clear. I do believe Dain only had good intentions with everything.

Jeff's statement suggests that I called him an employee. This is not correct (again, I'm very careful with my words). The reason I kept bringing up Kahn's quote was to stress the conflict of interest that arises when people associated with the company grade their own games and sell them. Being a Director is WORSE than an employee because you have more influence over the company, and there is more potential for fraud. A director grading their own games in a privileged way and flipping them without telling anyone they are a director is definitely grounds for fraud. At the very least, it should be investigated.

There were a lot of assumptions about my motives or what I do and don't know (a lot of them wrong) but I would love to answer any questions you have.

Since I seem to never sleep these days, let me be the first to welcome you to VGS.  Happy to see you come on here and be open to answer any questions.

[GetTheGreg | 105]

.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Maertens29

[GetTheGreg | 105]

14 minutes ago, karljobst said:

Hi, I created an account here so I can answer questions.

On the topic of Dain, I felt I was quite clear in the video that Dain was previously associated with the company but is not currently. That's why I said "the cherry on top, is that WHEN WATA Games was incorporated in 2017, Dain Anderson WAS the executive officer.". When I was talking about Jeff, I was using current tense (Meyer IS a director). I then further confirm that Dain was no longer with the business by saying "So this entire deal (when the deal took place) happened between 2 men that WERE or are directly involved with the company". I'm very careful with my words, and my words specifically mention that Dain was not a part of the company at the time of the deal taking place. I apologise for not stressing it more, and admittedly, I keep forgetting that it is very easy for people to misunderstand things.

I've since spoken with Dain and nothing he did was wrong, I just felt it was important to mention for transparency. I will be doing an update and I will be making this more clear. I do believe Dain only had good intentions with everything.

Jeff's statement suggests that I called him an employee. This is not correct (again, I'm very careful with my words). The reason I kept bringing up Kahn's quote was to stress the conflict of interest that arises when people associated with the company grade their own games and sell them. Being a Director is WORSE than an employee because you have more influence over the company, and there is more potential for fraud. A director grading their own games in a privileged way and flipping them without telling anyone they are a director is definitely grounds for fraud. At the very least, it should be investigated.

There were a lot of assumptions about my motives or what I do and don't know (a lot of them wrong) but I would love to answer any questions you have.

I am curious if we can expect to hear any interviews from you with any of the main parties that were involved in your investigation?  I know I saw Jeff Meyer offer an open invite.  Curious if you can share if there will be any updates in that regard.

[karljobst | 242]

I would be happy to speak with Jeff and will try to organise that shortly (I have sponsorship obligations for unrelated youtube videos so I'm not free to do anything until the end of August). I'm happy to speak with anyone.

[OptOut | 8,895]

18 minutes ago, karljobst said:

I would be happy to speak with Jeff and will try to organise that shortly (I have sponsorship obligations for unrelated youtube videos so I'm not free to do anything until the end of August). I'm happy to speak with anyone.

Mr. Jobst, big fan of your work!

I just want to say, Hello, you absolute LEGEND! 

[Brickman | 4,073]

36 minutes ago, karljobst said:

Hi, I created an account here so I can answer questions.

On the topic of Dain, I felt I was quite clear in the video that Dain was previously associated with the company but is not currently. That's why I said "the cherry on top, is that WHEN WATA Games was incorporated in 2017, Dain Anderson WAS the executive officer.". When I was talking about Jeff, I was using current tense (Meyer IS a director). I then further confirm that Dain was no longer with the business by saying "So this entire deal (when the deal took place) happened between 2 men that WERE or are directly involved with the company". I'm very careful with my words, and my words specifically mention that Dain was not a part of the company at the time of the deal taking place. I apologise for not stressing it more, and admittedly, I keep forgetting that it is very easy for people to misunderstand things.

I've since spoken with Dain and nothing he did was wrong, I just felt it was important to mention for transparency. I will be doing an update and I will be making this more clear. I do believe Dain only had good intentions with everything.

Jeff's statement suggests that I called him an employee. This is not correct (again, I'm very careful with my words). The reason I kept bringing up Kahn's quote was to stress the conflict of interest that arises when people associated with the company grade their own games and sell them. Being a Director is WORSE than an employee because you have more influence over the company, and there is more potential for fraud. A director grading their own games in a privileged way and flipping them without telling anyone they are a director is definitely grounds for fraud. At the very least, it should be investigated.

There were a lot of assumptions about my motives or what I do and don't know (a lot of them wrong) but I would love to answer any questions you have.

Just want to say thanks heaps for your video Karl and bringing a lot of this to light to a bigger audience. I’m looking forward to any further videos or articles you may have put out about this. You’ll find some very knowledgeable people here that are willing to help you where they can and probably some doubters.

And as a fellow Aussie, you’re a bloody legend  looking forward to seeing what else you do in the speed running and gaming community

[jonebone | 1,307]

Man this thread is just like the video game market itself.

Everytime it hits a new high and accelerates in terms of page count, it just breaks out and hits new highs again and again!

My only comment to @karljobst is that your "experts" of Pat (a cart only collector) and ReservedInvestments (who has been saying Wata games were a bubble for 2.5 years now) weren't exactly relevant experts.  Analogies I saw thrown around were asking the electrician to do the plumbing in your house.

You could ask any longtime sealed collector with 10+ years experience for what they think of market values and see what kind of response you get.  For the record I thought Mario 64 was going to go $250k-$300k at the time and $1.6M was Earth shattering.  The point I'm making there is that while the hobby has accelerated and gone parabolic way more than people realize, there's still "intrinsic value" in the collecting community that have been way higher than before.  I get unsolicited messages not quite daily but at least a few times a week from people trying to buy high grade sealed games out of my collection.  

The highest of the high is definitely influenced by fractional ownership (can send stuff to stratosphere), but there is simply 10 fold more organic demand from collectors / speculators / investors than there was at the beginning of 2019.  You have a lot of the old crew still here that never left and tons and tons of new blood.  Of course higher demand equals higher prices, though we got too high too fast IMO, but you can never estimate how much people will FOMO.

Edited August 27, 2021 by jonebone

[karljobst | 242]

5 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Man this thread is just like the video game market itself.

Everytime it hits a new high and accelerates in terms of page count, it just breaks out and hits new highs again and again!

My only comment to @karljobst is that your "experts" of Pat (a cart only collector) and ReservedInvestments (who has been saying Wata games were a bubble for 2.5 years now) weren't exactly relevant experts.  Analogies I saw thrown around were asking the electrician to do the plumbing in your house.

You could ask any longtime sealed collector with 10+ years experience for what they think of market values and see what kind of response you get.  For the record I thought Mario 64 was going to go $250k-$300k at the time and $1.6M was Earth shattering.  The point I'm making there is that while the hobby has accelerated and gone parabolic way more than people realize, there's still "intrinsic value" in the collecting community that have been way higher than before.  I get unsolicited messages not quite daily but at least a few times a week from people trying to buy high grade sealed games out of my collection.  

The highest of the high is definitely influenced by fractional ownership (can send stuff to stratosphere), but there is simply 10 fold more organic demand from collectors / speculators / investors than there was at the beginning of 2019.  You have a lot of the old crew still here that never left and tons and tons of new blood.  Of course higher demand equals higher prices, though we got too high too fast IMO, but you can never estimate how much people will FOMO.

To be extremely clear, none of my opinions are informed or influenced by Pat or anyone else that was in the video. They were very helpful in answering questions I had etc. but my opinions are the result of examining all of the information I have and coming to my own conclusion. We do share sentiments on what is happening though, which is why I gave them a platform and it was good to have them included as a voice.

I don't ultimately care what the price of games are, I'm not saying they 'shouldn't' be valued at millions. I care about the manipulation of the market by those with a vested interest in the prices of games going up. If all of the forces driving prices up come from conflicts of interest, it's impossible to have confidence in the market.

My focus is on shedding light on unethical business practices, and full disclaimer, it should be obvious I'm not a fan of speculation. Thankfully, if you don't mind speculation and you are ok with market manipulation etc, then you should also be fine with any efforts to drive prices down. It's only fair.

[OptOut | 8,895]

I gotta say, sorry @Jeevan, but I think we've found a new champ for thread of the year! 

[jonebone | 1,307]

20 minutes ago, karljobst said:

My focus is on shedding light on unethical business practices, and full disclaimer, it should be obvious I'm not a fan of speculation. Thankfully, if you don't mind speculation and you are ok with market manipulation etc, then you should also be fine with any efforts to drive prices down. It's only fair.

Oh yes, as a collector it sucks getting priced out of stuff and many of us have been waiting a long time for buying opportunities.  I wish pricing gains would be more linear than parabolic indeed.  I'm fine with any articles that short the market, just as someone who knows Deniz personally, you couldn't be more wrong about him.  I can't speak to Halperin.

End of day, my take was Wata marketed their concept heavily at comic conventions.  That's your answer of "why Wata over VGA?", VGA did not innovate, did not market and frankly did not care about growing.  Wata did, so not only did they take market share, but they created new market share too.

As for the Carolina collection... it was a mixed bag in terms of popularity (most were against it, myself included), but I kinda get it.  @Dain probably had a top 5 collection at the time (in terms of public collectors, and just IMO) and he was basically the godfather of the collecting community by creating NA.  Him getting bought out was a big deal and I see Deniz / Ken naming it as more of a ode to someone we viewed as a mentor, rather than a value push.  And value wise, there is none.  I have a Carolina Collection Boulder Dash 9.4 A+ that I couldn't even sell for the $999 OBO Boulder Dash VGA 85+ that is on eBay.  The name adds no value, at least it hasn't up to today.

Either way, they can answer for the conflict of interests as it's quite overlapping.  Where we disagree is the amount of collusion.  These guys weren't sitting around thinking how can we make millions, they were just people with a vision who knew this hobby would hit millions regardless, and they marketed it forward.  Should it have been more transparent?  Sure.  Would the results have been different?  Maybe slower, but we'd still be hitting crazy highs in the future due to the vast marketing and cross-over collectors. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by jonebone

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,177]

24 minutes ago, karljobst said:

To be extremely clear, none of my opinions are informed or influenced by Pat or anyone else that was in the video. They were very helpful in answering questions I had etc. but my opinions are the result of examining all of the information I have and coming to my own conclusion. We do share sentiments on what is happening though, which is why I gave them a platform and it was good to have them included as a voice.

I don't ultimately care what the price of games are, I'm not saying they 'shouldn't' be valued at millions. I care about the manipulation of the market by those with a vested interest in the prices of games going up. If all of the forces driving prices up come from conflicts of interest, it's impossible to have confidence in the market.

My focus is on shedding light on unethical business practices, and full disclaimer, it should be obvious I'm not a fan of speculation. Thankfully, if you don't mind speculation and you are ok with market manipulation etc, then you should also be fine with any efforts to drive prices down. It's only fair.

You did an incredible job with your story. I commend you for the transparency and bravery.

[karljobst | 242]

14 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Either way, they can answer for the conflict of interests as it's quite overlapping.  Where we disagree is the amount of collusion.  These guys weren't sitting around thinking how can we make millions, they were just people with a vision who knew this hobby would hit millions regardless, and they marketed it forward.  Should it have been more transparent?  Sure.  Would the results have been different?  Maybe slower, but we'd still be hitting crazy highs in the future due to the vast marketing and cross-over collectors. 

I disagree when it comes to Halperin. From what I've heard (there is much more than what I put in the video) he does and did sit around thinking about how to make millions, and Wata was one of his ideas (I remind you he has been charged with fraud for multiple schemes). 

The problem I see is that in the best case scenario, people like Deniz do not understand or do not care about their responsibility as a grading company to remain neutral. They are supposed to be an objective party that only deals with the certification and quality assurance of games. They should not be impacting markets, speculating, driving prices up. This is because they have a massive conflict of interest (prices go up - more people grade games/speculate, they charge more). If you allow this kind of behaviour the end result is always market manipulation and fraud. Eventually, someone takes advantage of it. It needs to be stamped out immediately and not tolerated.

Edited August 27, 2021 by karljobst

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,177]

Just now, karljobst said:

I disagree when it comes to Halperin. From what I've heard (there is much more than what I put in the video) he does and did sit around thinking about how to make millions, and Wata was one of his ideas (I remind you he has been charged with fraud for multiple schemes). 

The problem I see is that in the best case scenario, people like Deniz do not understand or do not care about their responsibility as a grading company to remain neutral. They are supposed to be an objective party that only deals with the certification and quality assurance of games. They should not be impacting markets, speculating, driving prices up. This is because they have a massive conflict of interest (prices go up, more people grade games/speculate, the charge more). If you allow this kind of behaviour the end result is always market manipulation and fraud. Eventually, someone takes advantage of it. It needs to be stamped out immediately and not tolerated.

Amen. Nothing about this market is natural. Sure, there is new demand. But come on. The high end of this is largely the same investors passing the hot potato around and now fractional share companies doing the same. I don’t stand for fraudulent and deceptive practices. I’m sure more will be revealed too. 

[Aatos | 35]

3 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Maybe slower, but we'd still be hitting crazy highs in the future due to the vast marketing and cross-over collectors. 

It’s not the first time in this thread you make this argument that the alleged collusion/market manipulation (whether illegal or just unethical use of position) was ultimately irrelevant since the prices would’ve hit these highs eventually anyway, which is quite flawed in my opinion - it’s like you’re saying timing is irrelevant factor in investments, even though it’s literally Finance 101 that interest, opportunity cost (ie.deciding what one should invest in) etc. all critically depend on the timing of the investment.

To me it’s kinda similar to saying shill bidding is ok if the real bidder was still willing to pay the artificially inflated price, which I doubt you’d agree with.

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,177]

@jonebonewere you on the wata advisory board at one time?