Survey Regarding the Potential of a New Video Game Grader in the Market

[Hammerfestus | 3,884]

1 minute ago, OptOut said:

Potato, right?!

How is it even a question?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

This is getting way off topic. Can we get back to board member beefs and stop all this nonsense talk about grading games?

[a3quit4s | 4,126]

I dunno. For me it comes down to people in this community have no idea who you are so why should we/I trust your product and as others have said back you with a promise of a discount that may never come to fruition. I don't do graded games and probably never will but I do know I buy brands I trust and can ask other people their thoughts and feedback. 

Maybe you are an ace in the hole and the best fucking expert grader who ever lived but no one knows who you are. I mean you or the owner are Scott Endsley and you do business in Kansas and run Scotts Picks but what does sports handicapping and betting have to do with games? Who is going to help you with the main part of your business?

Edited March 5, 2021 by a3quit4s

[SNESNESCUBE64 | 554]

42 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said:

If I haven't answered this yet specifically enough, does this help:

We believe (others will disagree) our scoring system that uses 130 scores over 26 specific areas across box, manual and cartridge is more thorough than others.  We will mark on a diagram where we saw something that we marked as a negative agains the score And most importantly the scorecard will be attached to your game viewable in the customer admin section - full transparency at exactly how we got to your grade.

...

We will be different by not being the only show in town.  Others have disagreed but competition (yes, quality competition) makes everyone better - WATA has very little incentive to do better right now, maybe many don't think they need to but at least some aren't happy with current options.  

So you hit on two things here. You are banking on 1: being transparent and 2: being someone else.

1. Thats nice. Transparency is a very important part to this whole process. But the fact of the matter is, that you are a human being making decisions on value. If you plan on having employees as well, no well defined scale will save you from variations. No amount of transparency can help with that because it is still people with that will vary slightly. 

2. Adding competition doesn't inherently give incentive for the common folk like myself to go get something graded with your company. If you are banking on that at all, I feel that you are making a mistake in that regard. This is where being unique gives you an advantage. 

Ultimately a different scale doesn't make you unique. It will still be the same issue of being subjective by nature.

I'm sorry if I am comming off as a bit of a jerk. But for someone who is about to invest money and time, I feel it is important to be brutally critical.

27 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

Well, to quote the great @SNESNESCUBE64.  These are toys for babies, ...

I'm not wrong! Nintendo and those folk make toys for children, for babies! I always have laugh when stuff gets heated because I always think about this fact

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

2 minutes ago, SNESNESCUBE64 said:

But the fact of the matter is, that you are a human being making decisions on value. If you plan on having employees as well, no well defined scale will save you from variations. No amount of transparency can help with that because it is still people with that will vary slightly. 

Correct, and we aren't trying to solve this problem because it's unsolvable but it doesn't mean we can't offer a quality service.

2 minutes ago, SNESNESCUBE64 said:

2. Adding competition doesn't inherently give incentive for the common folk like myself to go get something graded with your company. If you are banking on that at all, I feel that you are making a mistake in that regard. This is where being unique gives you an advantage. 

I didn't mean to imply or state that just being competition will drive our success solely but if you think there are no unhappy WATA and VGA clients willing to try someone else, that is short sided.  

And of course we feel we offer unique offerings, some (many) in this group don't necessarily agree but the hand full chiming in does not make up the entirety of our audience. 

2 minutes ago, SNESNESCUBE64 said:

Ultimately a different scale doesn't make you unique. It will still be the same issue of being subjective by nature.

A different scale, by definition is different.  And if no one else has the same scale then by definition it is unique.  We understand we cannot be 100% objective with grading, can't be done but we believe our system gets us closer than hey this game looks like about a 7.5....could it be a 7.8?  Don't know, don't care it's not an 8 so we'll call it 7.5 today.  Will we be perfect no.  Has any grader ever been perfect with every grade, no. 

2 minutes ago, SNESNESCUBE64 said:

I'm sorry if I am comming off as a bit of a jerk. But for someone who is about to invest money and time, I feel it is important to be brutally critical.

Appreciate the feedback, constructive criticism always appreciated, it's why I'm here.  Intelligent adults can and should have difficult conversations about things that matter to them.  It can be heated without being personal and can stay constructive. 

 

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

I initially posted this in another group and although I did get some good feedback I was also told rather clearly I was asking the wrong group.  It will be interesting to see how this group reacts compared to the interesting lifecycle of this topic in the other group. 

I know that grading of vintage games is a hot topic and many feel strongly, some VERY strongly.  And I completely respect that, totally understand that many do not want games graded for many reasons.  But other do, so for those in that camp - do we need another grading company?  

I would greatly appreciate 2-3 minutes of your time to fill out a quick survey and share your thoughts at  https://forms.gle/5MWGhQfGqCjfBPnj8

You can learn more at https://videogamegraders.com/ and at  https://igg.me/at/video-game-graders

Thank you for your time and consideration. 

[Hammerfestus | 3,884]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

 

Asking us for our opinion is like asking a heavy metal or rock guitarist about flamenco guitars. Yeah, at the end of the day, they are all guitars, and both groups have something in common (playing music, and an instrument), but similarly, these are very very different items with very different demographics. .

 

[Strange | 1,701]

4 hours ago, cromag27 said:

exactly!  most of the audience here (i’ve come to realize) is collectors with very little knowledge of, or interest in investing.

 

 

This community (and the one that came before it) have been about collecting for enjoyment since their inception. The investing types aren’t going to suddenly come in and change the scene for the rest of us.

[YOURTURN | 1,257]

6 hours ago, Mr. CIB said:

WATA got similar push back in different circles when they got rolling. Their key to success wasn’t grading...... it was the marketing. 

I pretty much agree since the other key to success is knowing how to connect with your target audience. Which goes back to the fact that studying that can very much help said Marketing division.

Doreen P.Y Tho (Chief Marketing Officer) was advising Deniz for at least two years while he was developing WataGames. So while he was a member of NintendoAge, I have to believe that she was the person behind the reason HA got into the graded video game biz. I mean at this point nobody thinks about his role on NA, while every new collector goes to that auction site to get any Wata-graded games they need to pay big bucks for. In the end WataGames today is similar to A Bathing Ape (Bape) in terms of brand recognition. All because of her role in Marketing.

Plus we also have this latest entry in the grading company competition. And unlike the rest they go into full detail when promoting their product. Which has me see it as a double-edge sword even if their website looked professional.

But again, I have made the "study" speech. Plus I should note is that grading companies come and go. For example, CGS debuted in 2007 and is no longer around. Where as CAS is still around because their services speak for them. and WataGames has both a smart founder and a brilliant CMO. 

(Hmmm... Maybe I should promote my start-up by creating t-shirts that look like a person's personality was graded. )

[fcgamer | 4,753]

Same forum, same group of people, same topic, different subsection.

You might get a few insights from others here, but I think it's honestly doubtful, as I think a large portion of the members view most of the subsections.

[DarkTone | 988]

@CasualCart would offer artwork with every grading. If I was American, I would vote for him as president. 

[Dumars2001 | 164]

Filled out!!

 

[drxandy | 3,236]

18 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

 

 

 

[a_profile_name | 230]

Investors are great, especially those who buy up new releases. They give me peace of mind knowing that if I catch up with modern era gamest 10-15 from now, the market will be flooded with copies for cheap. Maybe they'll need some work like cracking the grading company slab, but still probably worth it.

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

8 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Same forum, same group of people, same topic, different subsection.

Must be because the response has been vastly different here, guess everyone inclined to share their opinion already has done so. 

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

2 hours ago, Dumars2001 said:

Filled out!!

 

Thank you. 

[Deadeye | 1,596]

Note:

There were two threads under two different sections of the forum, these topics have been merged into this one thread under "Sealed & Graded Collecting".  Carry on. 

[Dumars2001 | 164]

6 hours ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said:

Thank you. 

Very happy to help and I love what you are doing here with your survey/transparency/taking questions. I can also tell that you are a very respectable/smart person by your patience and kind replies to everyone's questions. Good luck with this endeavor and I can positively say, that I will feel pretty safe/confident submitting some of my games to your company in the future based on the information you are telling us. Thanks for bringing even more attention to the hobby and choices for us collectors to make when/if we want to have something graded!

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

1 minute ago, Dumars2001 said:

Very happy to help and I love what you are doing here with your survey/transparency/taking questions. I can also tell that you are a very respectable/smart person by your patience and kind replies to everyone's questions. Good luck with this endeavor and I can positively say, that I will feel pretty safe/confident submitting some of my games to your company in the future based on the information you are telling us. Thanks for bringing even more attention to the hobby and choices for us collectors to make when/if we want to have something graded!

Appreciate the kind words.  You sure you're in the right group

[GPX | 1,374]

47 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said:

Appreciate the kind words.  You sure you're in the right group

Despite the overall negativity, I honestly feel there is a lot of genuine constructive advice that has been laid out with fair reasoning. If you have the right kind of passion and goodwill then I wish you all the best! 

You seem to have great communication skills, so that is a strong positive. Perhaps you need to mingle with the collectors first and allow us to know who you are and what kind of expertise you have. Show us a peak of your collection maybe? Show us you know about games and and that you understand the terms “VGC”, “near-mint”, “distributor sealed”. We need to see you have the genuine kind of expertise that is needed in this hobby. 

 

[hyrulevyse | 151]

I don't know if we 'need' another grading company but depending on price I think there could be room for one.  For example I think Wata's lowest tier was $25 (for sealed) when they first started, and a plain old nes sized acrylic case costs $20 from CGA.  So I think there's a value proposition for people who buy cases like that merely to protect their games if you can be solvent in that neighborhood.

I get you'd want to start small, get the process down, make sure you can meet deadlines, etc..  but just grading black box and Zelda nes cib's seems too limiting to me.  Grading is already a pretty small part of the hobby and to keep it to just a handful of cib's (even to start) feels especially narrow.  Specifically because we're talking about cib, which isn't as prevalent as sealed.

 

[Gloves | 11,839]

What we really need is a grading company based in Canada. It's so restrictively expensive getting anything graded from here, as I have to pay out the ass for shipping, and then getting my game(s) back I'm gonna pay significant customs (on my own stuff that originated here!). I'm talking at least an extra $100 of fees.

[OptOut | 8,892]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

What we really need is a grading company based in Canada. It's so restrictively expensive getting anything graded from here, as I have to pay out the ass for shipping, and then getting my game(s) back I'm gonna pay significant customs (on my own stuff that originated here!). I'm talking at least an extra $100 of fees.

Well, you know your way around a sealed game, don't you dude?...

GlovesGameGrades.ca! GGG graded on a scale of 1 to 10 maple leaves!

Got a nice ring to it!

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

2 hours ago, hyrulevyse said:

but just grading black box and Zelda nes cib's seems too limiting to me.  Grading is already a pretty small part of the hobby and to keep it to just a handful of cib's (even to start) feels especially narrow.  Specifically because we're talking about cib, which isn't as prevalent as sealed.

Appreciate your feedback. To clarify we are only STARTING with all NES CIB not just Zelda and Black Box. We just have an added extras for those two. 

As for sealed vs CIB in the era of cardboard boxes (where grading matters most) CIB is a much larger market. Sealed is far more difficult to come by for obvious reasons and yes they are much more valuable which only reiterates their scarcity. 
 

So to start we will focus on the large market of NES CIB but are ready to expand quickly as demand dictates. 

Thanks again. 

[OptOut | 8,892]

1 hour ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said:

As for sealed vs CIB in the era of cardboard boxes (where grading matters most) CIB is a much larger market. Sealed is far more difficult to come by for obvious reasons and yes they are much more valuable which only reiterates their scarcity. 

I think what @hyrulevyse meant was that GRADING a CIB was less prevalent than sealed. Certainly, when compared to the relative availability of each category of condition, sealed games are hugely disproportionately more likely to be graded than CIB.

Whether that changes over time remains to be seen, however the issue does help to illustrate another point about the speculation market that hasn't been raised raised yet: most people, the VAST majority, who buy CIB games buy them to play.

In the market for sealed games, there's a fair chance that someone's gonna get that game graded, or that it will eventually end up in the hands of someone who will. The market for CIB, by comparison, is as you correctly state WAY way bigger, many multitudes bigger. BUT, 99.99% of all those CIB purchases are being made by people who either want to play em or who are chucking them "raw" on the shelf to integrate into their collection.

@VideoGameGradersLLC you say you have extensive experience with collectables, and sure I get that. But if your experience is Sports cards (which is the gist I have gotten, please correct me if I'm wrong) then I'm afraid your experience simply does not translate to game collecting.

Video games are, by their very nature, interactive. They are an immersive, experiential medium, completely unlike cards and even comic books or carded toys. Ever wonder why there's no grading company for movies? It's because the MAJORITY of people collecting these things aren't JUST looking for a pretty item for their shelf (or the next big ROI opportunity). They want to experience the things they own, they want to PLAY the damn game!

The simple lesson is this: while there may only be one supply side to this market, there have always been at least TWO demand sides... People who buy to collect and people who buy to play. If you don't understand this, you will not understand your market.

In fact, I would say, if anything, YOUR business seems to be almost exclusively aimed at the new THIRD side of the demand equation, namely the speculators... This is a fickle, risky new market. Any assumptions you are making on the basis of those guys, well... Probably best to make your money off them while you can... Even fish wise up to the hook, eventually...

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by OptOut