VideoGameGradersLLC | 82 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, OptOut said: think what @hyrulevyse meant was that GRADING a CIB was less prevalent than sealed. Certainly, when compared to the relative availability of each category of condition, sealed games are hugely disproportionately more likely to be graded than CIB. Gotcha, makes sense. Now. I think that will change as more people enter the hobby as sealed games price out the masses CIB will become more popular due to relative affordability and availability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoGameGradersLLC | 82 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, OptOut said: But if your experience is Sports cards (which is the gist I have gotten, please correct me if I'm wrong) then I'm afraid your experience simply does not translate to game collecting. Video games are, by their very nature, interactive. They are an immersive, experiential medium, completely unlike cards and even comic books or carded toys. Ever wonder why there's no grading company for movies? It's because the MAJORITY of people collecting these things aren't JUST looking for a pretty item for their shelf (or the next big ROI opportunity). They want to experience the things they own, they want to PLAY the damn game! You are correct on my background. I do agree with you on intent of each market being different. But, this too is changing IMO. More CIB will be bought for future value, nostalgia, box art and not to play. There are lots of ways to play vintage games other than original equipment. So as we come full circle to grading the technical act of evaluating condition is not that different. It’s about imperfections and the degree of those imperfections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: Gotcha, makes sense. Now. I think that will change as more people enter the hobby as sealed games price out the masses CIB will become more popular due to relative affordability and availability. Well, if that's turns out to be true, and you can get people to give your service a try and gain market share, then I'm certain you'll make a lot of money. It will still only be a tiny minority of all the games ever bought and sold though, I've little doubt about that. 4 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: You are correct on my background. I do agree with you on intent of each market being different. But, this too is changing IMO. More CIB will be bought for future value, nostalgia, box art and not to play. People buy cards to hold and look at, it makes sense to grade them. Same for comic books and toys, and heck, the same can even be said for sealed games, no qualms there. CIB tho... Good luck, make that money while you can before people figure out the emperor is "underdressed" for the time of year... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoGameGradersLLC | 82 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 17 minutes ago, OptOut said: In fact, I would say, if anything, YOUR business seems to be almost exclusively aimed at the new THIRD side of the demand equation, namely the speculators... This is a fickle, risky new market. Any assumptions you are making on the basis of those guys, well... Probably best to make your money off them while you can... Even fish wise up to the hook, eventually... Also a potentially big market. Also a group that doesn’t care about my history or industry knowledge or if I know Deniz Kahn they want a quick turn at a reasonable price and a good fair grade. Some will do their research and for a while discover we are new but many won’t. Fishing is nearly a $10 billion a year industry in the US so the first aren’t that smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoGameGradersLLC | 82 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Just now, OptOut said: It will still only be a tiny minority of all the games ever bought and sold though, I've little doubt about that. Two ways to make money, get a bigger piece of the pie. Or find a bigger pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoGameGradersLLC | 82 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 minute ago, OptOut said: eople buy cards to hold and look at, it makes sense to grade them. Same for comic books and toys, and heck, the same can even be said for sealed games, no qualms there. CIB tho... Good luck I think the only thing we disagree on here is I believe that is changing with video games CIB, you aren’t as convinced. People will decide they want to collect video games, see graded prices, then look for something they can afford which is CIB. And as the market grows graded is a must in this day and age. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splain | 2,588 Editorials Team · Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Go for it! Nobody at VGA or Wata has any "authority" to grade games, not even a little bit. It's just if people want THIS or THAT group of guys to decide what they think about a game. Best of luck! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: I think the only thing we disagree on here is I believe that is changing with video games CIB, you aren’t as convinced. People will decide they want to collect video games, see graded prices, then look for something they can afford which is CIB. And as the market grows graded is a must in this day and age. Well again, we'll see. If you are correct, and graded game collecting BECOMES game collecting (rather than the tiny, if ridiculously overpumped, niche it currently exists in), then I guess the people like me who collect and play the old fashioned way will have to just get used to being the new niche. Personally, I consider them two separate hobbies, perhaps that delineation will indeed become clearer and more defined over time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,839 Administrator · Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 34 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: You are correct on my background. I do agree with you on intent of each market being different. But, this too is changing IMO. More CIB will be bought for future value, nostalgia, box art and not to play. There are lots of ways to play vintage games other than original equipment. So as we come full circle to grading the technical act of evaluating condition is not that different. It’s about imperfections and the degree of those imperfections. There are PLENTY of people (like myself) who collect CIB because they like the whole experience - grab the box off the shelf, take out the game (and manual!), pop it in and play. I don't wanna sit with my phone at my side to look up tips and tricks on the best party comp for Final Fantasy, I want to figure it out for myself based on the information available the day it came out if you just bought the game (some people will also use paper guides, but not too dissimilar to myself). I play my games regularly, and they are ALL CIB. They're on my shelves for show, yes, but they are all 100% functional and many of them get regular use, including the cardboard and paper. I want to own functional copies of original hardware, as they'd have looked on a store shelf as much as possible. The eventual goal for me personally being that I'd love to have a basement one day filled with rows of games like you'd see going into Blockbuster, covers out for the world to see. It's a dream of mine to have friends over and invite them to pick a game to play, and my hope is that it will indeed bring back those memories of looking at game covers in a store to find one to take home and play. I consider myself lucky to have picked up the games that I have prior to last year. My collection still cost me basically an arm and a leg (I started collecting cardboard in 2017, and only really got around to the more expensive stuff in 2018/19). I beat the "boom" of last year and most of the year prior, but by no means did I get my CIBs for the $10 that a lot of people here have. My collection isn't an investment for me, it's a childhood dream. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyrulevyse | 151 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, OptOut said: I think what @hyrulevyse meant was that GRADING a CIB was less prevalent than sealed. Certainly, when compared to the relative availability of each category of condition, sealed games are hugely disproportionately more likely to be graded than CIB. 1 hour ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: Gotcha, makes sense. Now. I think that will change as more people enter the hobby as sealed games price out the masses CIB will become more popular due to relative affordability and availability. Sorry for being unclear. Yes, this is exactly what I was saying. Many people (myself included) have graded sealed games because well...to be honest I wasn't going to open them anyways with the money they command. So since they were never going to be opened there's a 'might as well grade them' or at least a 'no harm in grading them' type of attitude. CIB feels very different to me though, it just doesn't feel right for whatever that's worth. But the larger point is that I know plenty of people that feel this way, people that have sent hundreds of games to wata/vga but have never done so with a cib. I'm sure the dollars they sell for is a big part of that. Sealed nes games will eventually dry up and If cib versions of the sealed counterparts start bringing crazy money then I'm sure cib will follow suit. But how long can a new business wait for that to happen (if it ever does)? That's the most interesting difference/thing about this market to me compared to other collectibles. There is no cheap version of Action 1 or Honus Wagner. If you want it you need to pay big money for it. But with games a sealed Super Mario 3 can sell for 150k while the same object sans shrinkwrap sells for $150? That ratio seems severely skewed to me. Also, you're correct I thought you were only grading the 30 black boxes and Zelda for whatever reason. My apologies. Edited March 7, 2021 by hyrulevyse 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Serious point @VideoGameGradersLLC: Why not just start with BOTH sealed and CIB? Not only is sealed a bigger market for grading, but it's also WAY easier and quicker to grade. What sort of business goes out of its way to EXCLUDE the most popular and profitable service their potential client base demands, ESPECIALLY when it's basically the same exact job but ten times simpler? Would you grade my sealed game if I sent it in and asked you to open it and grade all the items separately?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoGameGradersLLC | 82 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 minute ago, OptOut said: Serious point @VideoGameGradersLLC: Why not just start with BOTH sealed and CIB? Not only is sealed a bigger market for grading, but it's also WAY easier and quicker to grade. What sort of business goes out of its way to EXCLUDE the most popular and profitable service their potential client base demands, ESPECIALLY when it's basically the same exact job but ten times simpler? Would you grade my sealed game if I sent it in and asked you to open it and grade all the items separately?! Our thought process is two-fold. Our expertise is stronger with CIB including spotting fakes, we feel good about spotting bad fake seals but high quality fakes that got past us could be catastrophic to the business, especially early so bring on this option a little later makes sense. Additionally as I’ve expressed we are starting slow by design to make sure we don’t get buried and immediately be forced to break promises of quick turnaround times. Another factor is that we spent a lot of time developing our scoring system that is very much designed for CIB. All that said, everything is still in play and we agree that grading sealed from the grading standpoint is quicker. It may very well be in our best interest to reconsider, ramp up getting further educated on becoming experts in seals and reconfiguring the scoring system as needed. and yes we’ll open your games for you if you ask 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: Our thought process is two-fold. Our expertise is stronger with CIB including spotting fakes, we feel good about spotting bad fake seals but high quality fakes that got past us could be catastrophic to the business, especially early so bring on this option a little later makes sense. It may very well be in our best interest to reconsider, ramp up getting further educated on becoming experts in seals and reconfiguring the scoring system as needed. Oof... Yeah, you REALLY should. That's a bad look for a grading company tbh, any admission of inexperience or a lack of expertise, even at this early stage is a BIG knock in confidence for your potential customers, at least the informed ones. That reminds me, you never mentioned earlier an answer to @Code Monkey about how you are going to identify mismatched parts, including inserts, maps, posters and various other CIB items. Do you have a clear strategy for identifying which items are supposed to be included with each game, or you gonna grade game, manual, box, and be done with it? For all their flaws, WATA is VERY good about that sort of thing, generally speaking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,091 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 3 hours ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: I think the only thing we disagree on here is I believe that is changing with video games CIB, you aren’t as convinced. People will decide they want to collect video games, see graded prices, then look for something they can afford which is CIB. And as the market grows graded is a must in this day and age. Flawed reasoning. A "new" collector is going to get into video game collecting for one of two reasons: to collect/invest/speculate or to play the games. The latter is not your market because you can't play a slabbed game. As for the former, he is either on a budget or not concerned about prices. If he's not concerned about prices, graded sealed games trump graded CIB games seven days a week and twice on Sunday, since they essentially are one and the same in terms of practicality once they are slabbed, so why buy the lesser of two collectables? That leaves you with one prospective market under your current plan: the "new" collector who is on a budget whilst also having no desire to play the games he buys. Can you see the problem here? Who spends big money on big ticket items at the top end of expensive hobbies? If you said "new collectors on a budget," then you need to go back to square one; you're looking for a unicorn... PS: Your assertion that "graded is a must," powerfully illustrates your misunderstanding of the multi-dimensional delineation of this hobby; it is 100% true for prospectors and investors while simultaneously 0% true for retro gamers. Just some food for thought... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,753 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: You are correct on my background. I do agree with you on intent of each market being different. But, this too is changing IMO. More CIB will be bought for future value, nostalgia, box art and not to play. There are lots of ways to play vintage games other than original equipment. So as we come full circle to grading the technical act of evaluating condition is not that different. It’s about imperfections and the degree of those imperfections. Thing is though, I rarely if ever sit down and play games, yet I have about 5-6000 of them, with another 400 or so machines lying around. I started out as a gamer, then became a collector as I had less time, and realised that I'd rather "waste" my time on other things than games. But the nostalgia and interest never left me, so that's what you are left with, a guy that owns thousands of video games and who only plays maybe five hours worth of games every three months, at best. I'd reckon I'm not the only one, I'd say a large portion of collectors now are "shelf collectors", with similar stories to mine. So games are already being bought CIB not to play, but similarly, this market has zero interest in grading the games either. Your only market for CIB grading will be old time collectors / gamers cashing out and looking for top dollar, and speculators / investors. The other markets (collectors as myself and gamers) have no interest at all. Edited March 7, 2021 by fcgamer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,753 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 6 hours ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: Also a potentially big market. Also a group that doesn’t care about my history or industry knowledge or if I know Deniz Kahn they want a quick turn at a reasonable price and a good fair grade. Some will do their research and for a while discover we are new but many won’t. Fishing is nearly a $10 billion a year industry in the US so the first aren’t that smart Well I said years ago that Deniz was a douche, surely I wasn't the only holding that sentiment, maybe grab those guys as your target audience? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,753 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 5 hours ago, OptOut said: Serious point @VideoGameGradersLLC: Why not just start with BOTH sealed and CIB? Not only is sealed a bigger market for grading, but it's also WAY easier and quicker to grade. What sort of business goes out of its way to EXCLUDE the most popular and profitable service their potential client base demands, ESPECIALLY when it's basically the same exact job but ten times simpler? Would you grade my sealed game if I sent it in and asked you to open it and grade all the items separately?! He doesn't have the experience, the connections, or the goodwill built up needed to send $$$$$$$ items to him blindly, that's why. It's like selling a NWC on eBay with a 0-feedback account. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulag Joe | 584 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Well, we definitely need a grading company that will grade the foam block in NES games. It's outrageous that Wata/VGA do not offer that service. The foam block is the most desirable part of the cib! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said: Well, we definitely need a grading company that will grade the foam block in NES games. It's outrageous that Wata/VGA do not offer that service. The foam block is the most desirable part of the cib! Joke all you want, but true CIB collectors are VERY picky about the completeness and the properly matched parts of their games. CIB stands for COMPLETE in box. Complete. If this grading company can't ensure 100% genuine completeness of the CIB items they are grading they do not deserve to be in the grading business. Full stop. A sports card is just that. A card. Does the OP know what NES games came with cards? Or stickers? Or maps? Or posters? Or registration cards? Or letters? Or 3D glasses? If I put a 3rd printing of a manual for Tiny Toon Adventures in my 2nd printing box with a 1st printing game, is he or his hitherto unknown "experts" going to know? He can't even grade a SEALED game! We have like probably 50 members here who could do that... And he thinks CIB is EASIER! Red flag, red flag, red flag! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,753 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I love this thread, I love to see the dumb things people try to do for money. As said earlier, 加油加油! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoGameGradersLLC | 82 Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 2 hours ago, OptOut said: And he thinks CIB is EASIER! Never said that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptOut | 8,892 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 26 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said: Never said that. Killer comeback dude. If your grading service is this thorough, you're sure to be onto a winner! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyree_Cooper | 772 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 this is my opinion, feel free to ignore it i don't give an ass butt (as in, the bottom part of a donkey) about grading, i wouldn't pay a dollar more for a game entombed in a transparent plastic brick, and i think that if you are willing to pay for this service, you deserve the risk of getting scammed by people looking for quick riches also, this whole thing drives prices up while providing fake security so it's a lose-lose for me i could send mismatched games and they wouldn't know, i could send regional variants and they wouldn't even know about them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamW | 713 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 3/7/2021 at 6:33 AM, OptOut said: Joke all you want, but true CIB collectors are VERY picky about the completeness and the properly matched parts of their games. CIB stands for COMPLETE in box. Complete. If this grading company can't ensure 100% genuine completeness of the CIB items they are grading they do not deserve to be in the grading business. Full stop. A sports card is just that. A card. Does the OP know what NES games came with cards? Or stickers? Or maps? Or posters? Or registration cards? Or letters? Or 3D glasses? If I put a 3rd printing of a manual for Tiny Toon Adventures in my 2nd printing box with a 1st printing game, is he or his hitherto unknown "experts" going to know? He can't even grade a SEALED game! We have like probably 50 members here who could do that... And he thinks CIB is EASIER! Red flag, red flag, red flag! This. Even if the "easier" jab is unfair, the larger point stands. Grading CIB properly is *really hard* and it's hard to believe a new startup is going to be in a position to do it properly, when even WATA (who are the best at it right now) aren't perfect and were pretty bad until late last year, from what I've seen in my Pokemon research. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,753 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Is the OP okay? He's been awfully silent, ran away like a puppy dog with its tail between its legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now