Survey Regarding the Potential of a New Video Game Grader in the Market

[Gloves | 11,779]

8 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said:

And one of those steps is understanding what your perspective customers want from you

Honestly it's gonna be an uphill battle not knowing your background. The Wata guys had a big up from a number of factors, including being well known in the retro game collecting community (NintendoAge specifically). People know those guys by name, have had conversations about collecting games with them, met them in person.

Even ignoring all of the outside help they get from investors, partners with experience in collectibles, etc., JUST looking at that ONE metric - they have a huge one-up on you. Nobody knows who you are.

[OptOut | 8,884]

Good luck to you dude, but you're facing an uphill battle IMO. Not sure if you're aware of the major collusion going on behind the scenes at WATA with Heritage Auctions and some major players in the videogame and comic collecting hobbies, but they are all in each others' pockets and they aren't going to play nice of fair with any newcomers.

They pretty much blew VGA out of the water day one with their years of pre-emptive networking and planning behind the scenes, most notably the GoCollect acquisition of NintendoAge which was basically the opening volley of that onslaught that led to their stranglehold on the top end of the market and the suckering of a bunch of rich comic collecting rubes...

Lots of old time collectors around here made bank out of it, and a lot of the new people getting in and making big moves early are too, but for a lot of us we came here to VGS as a refuge from the hype bullshit and the speculation. There is, of course, a place for that on this site too, and opinions on the matter do run the gamut. But you will be finding a lot of pushback here too, just due to the history and the completely different values many of us who have been collecting 20, 30+ years hold.

[OptOut | 8,884]

Just now, OptOut said:

Good luck to you dude, but you're facing an uphill battle IMO.

 

4 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Honestly it's gonna be an uphill battle

Oh FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

I AM ORIGINAL, I AM UNIQUE I AM SPECIAL!!!!!!!!!! 

[Gloves | 11,779]

Just now, OptOut said:

 

Oh FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

I AM ORIGINAL, I AM UNIQUE I AM SPECIAL!!!!!!!!!! 

I can see what you're typing while you're typing it.

[OptOut | 8,884]

Oh really?

What number am I typing right now?

 

 

 

Spoiler

6969696969696969696969696969696969696969696969696969696969696969420 suck my asscock

 

[doner24 | 1,196]

I grade this topic 4 Schrute bucks out of 10 Stanley nickels. 

[SilverspoonGaming | 332]

@VideoGameGradersLLCWhat are your views on video game collections being a long-term investment like stocks and crypto?  Life for people who dont care about they games they possess other than their current value?

[OptOut | 8,884]

4 minutes ago, SilverspoonGaming said:

@VideoGameGradersLLCWhat are your views on video game collections being a long-term investment like stocks and crypto?  Life for people who dont care about they games they possess other than their current value?

Seeing as he's getting into grading solely as a business opportunity, probably something like this:

[fcgamer | 4,723]

So you want to start a business, yet you are looking for others to fund you, via donations. As others have mentioned, the large competitor also has connections with the community, out the gazoo. And you have literally no "street Cred" in the community which you are trying to get into. Here's what I see, and what I don't see.

You say you're a successful businessman, who runs companies, and that you know the path to make this venture successful.

Yet you also go posting links asking for donations to the tune of just under 100k. If you were so successful though, why not take some of your moldy money and put it towards this business? If you don't have the sum, then ask your mom of your uncle or something. But by looking for donations of such a large amount of money, I see two possible things:

A. You don't have the cash. Well, sure, nothing wrong there, aside from the fact that it sounds very very amateurish to me, such as something a kid out of university might need to do, rather than a successful career businessman from the eighties.

Or

B. You want to negate the risk away from yourself. If you aren't willing to put your skin in the game, that also sends out major red flags to me.

Then there's the business plan. From that department, I haven't seen jack shit. Of course I understand you aren't going to make that public, but this goes back to points A and B above. The whole thing looks like you want to cash in on a market you are not connected to, whilst also not wanting to assume any risk. Yeah good luck, you'll need it.

In the future you should maybe start collecting data in other ways, and then think about launching your product and company when you've got something concrete to show, rather than just smoke, clouds, and promises.

Also you gotta think about things for long term, think about ways to differentiate, differentiate, differentiate. So far I'm not seeing much that's different in your service than the others, either.

 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

11 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said:

I’ve been running, not just studying, businesses since the late 80s so I’ll trust by understanding of what works and what does not.
 

No offense, but that is just it. Everything you are doing states that you are not prepared for this. 

If you studied instead of doing a groupthink-style topic, you would be prepared for what comes next. Because your studies would have lead to you knowing how CGA, Inc. got its start, how CAS managed to be their competition, and even why WataGames is still an option to this day. Atop of trying to see if you can be a true rival to all three, which also means you need to study in order to plan out a way to avoid their past mistakes.

In the end my studies has helped me realize that I am building a potential brand, and not just a business. One that might reach out to more than just my target audience. Which has me skipping the whole groupthink bit and using that time to readjust/reestablish both my short and long-term goals, with inclusions of what to do if it becomes a monopoly. Things you cannot just get by saying "I ran a business" while expecting your groupthink to give you results. Especially when you created on that does not offer any real selling points.

My point is tied to what @Gloves has stated about WataGames. And it expands to the origins of both AFA and VGA. Along with why they are still around when you realize how many mistakes both companies have made in the past. As in the things that can help you create the very much needed business plan you are not offering us. Which has you sound no different than those who wanted to start a comic shop when comic books were a hot commodity. 

[GPX | 1,369]

I think the key thing is “do consumers want an overload of third party grading companies?” At the moment, I don’t think more is better. If it was simply a grading service without the acrylic encasing, then yeah, I personally think the more the merrier! However, with different companies, come with different styles of encasing/displaying.

As a collector how do we all feel about a mishmash of VGA/WATA/UKG/“new company” ? Not only the issue of too many variant encasings, but having to learn and adjust to new grading styles.   Imagine this equation:

VGA grade X.

Convert X into WATA A(sealed grade)x B (box grade)

Now convert A.B into C.D (third party grades)

Knowing C and D, what is the grade of the box of a VGA? 

 

[fcgamer | 4,723]

Anyone else remember that guy that started his own "grading company" and then sold those "graded games" on eBay? He was slabbing them in bags, iirc, might have been doing resealing too. 

[OptOut | 8,884]

Dudes!!! I'm in!!!

As usual, your friend and mine, @OptOut is on the case to sniff out what's really going on, and here's the scoop on VideoGameGraders.com's TOP SECRET grading method:

Turns out, it's COCK ASS BONERS.

[O.G. CIB | 415]

WATA got similar push back in different circles when they got rolling. Their key to success wasn’t grading...... it was the marketing. 

[Hammerfestus | 3,846]

Like others my first thought is: From whence do you derive your expertise/authority to claim to place an objective grade on these items?

Also, your retort earlier about running businesses since the 80s with no further evidence/examples to back up your claims only furthers the perception that this has a freshman business school project appearance an amateurish appearance.  Also also, that timeline would make you at least in your 50s?  That’s pretty outside of even our older range of collectors.  Maybe it’s nothing but it seems a bit unusual to me.  Or...or is it one of those things like the guys who claim they’ve been “collecting” for 30 years beginning when their parents bought them an NES for their 6th birthday?

That came out more negative than I meant it to but hopefully you understand my skepticism of someone popping up and pushing a detail light cash-in-project in an already profiteer oriented industry.  
 

Edit:  Totally gonna beat you to market.  Come at me bro.  

Edited March 5, 2021 by Hammerfestus

[spacepup | 2,404]

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

Dudes!!! I'm in!!!

As usual, your friend and mine, @OptOut is on the case to sniff out what's really going on, and here's the scoop on VideoGameGraders.com's TOP SECRET grading method:

Turns out, it's COCK ASS BONERS.

Skepticism and honest feedback (even if quite harsh) is appropriate.  Complete mockery and ridicule / trolling, is inappropriate at best. 

The OP asked for feedback, so feel free to share it, but not like this.   

[OptOut | 8,884]

9 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Skepticism and honest feedback (even if quite harsh) is appropriate.  Complete mockery and ridicule / trolling, is inappropriate at best. 

The OP asked for feedback, so feel free to share it, but not like this.   

Sorry pup! 

I'll pack it in for ya! 

Still not sure what he's asking for a hundred grand for tho... 

[Sumez | 2,953]

I think we need fewer video game grading companies. Preferably at least two fewer.

@CasualCart's can stay.

[Jeevan | 8,911]

7 minutes ago, Sumez said:

I think we need fewer video game grading companies. Preferably at least two fewer.

@CasualCart's can stay.

most def. on the cart grading company.

What we need are more passionate folks not in it for the money but in it for helping other gamers.  That is my opinion.  I will never get a game graded, not my thing.  That being said, good luck on ur venture.  Off to N64 land with my non graded games that I play   

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

8 hours ago, Gloves said:

The Wata guys had a big up from a number of factors, including being well known in the retro game collecting community (NintendoAge specifically). People know those guys by name, have had conversations about collecting games with them, met them in person.

Great point, very fair.  It's why we are being so aggressive with our Indiegogo Perks of deep discounts for those willing to give us a try.  We know we will not have the built in trust in the same way.  Also fair to consider the market has evolved since then, more demand and more understanding of video game grading.  

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

7 hours ago, SilverspoonGaming said:

@VideoGameGradersLLCWhat are your views on video game collections being a long-term investment like stocks and crypto?  Life for people who dont care about they games they possess other than their current value?

Collecting evolving into investing is simple supply and demand and seems inevitable if there is opportunity to make money from it.  I know many collector's hate that but it's this increased interest that, at least temporarily, bring a lot of new product out in to the open as people start digging through attics and storage bins.  In terms of long term value - it's absolutely there.  And despite some rather negative comments about my intentions this is based again on human nature and what drives demand.  Demand is coming from nostalgia (very powerful), scarcity of product - especially sealed, especially high quality and this is happening in an emerging market as just now, even after a few years of rising popularity is finding mainstream and growing with crossover collectors/investors so the demand doesn't seem to be slowing.  And supply, although seeing a temporary uptick as people start to realize they may something valuable, is very low.  If you think about the most rare sports cards, at least the rare mainstream cards they exist in the hundreds, if not 1000s yet have great value due to demand still being higher and nostalgia being a huge factor.  Right now eBay how many 86 Fleer Jordan PSA 8, 9 and even 10s are there plus dozens (hundreds) on other auction sites?  The hottest card in the sports card world is everywhere - readily available; very expensive yes but there.  How many OG NES Super Mario Bros.?  How many NES Black Box games?  Name your rare game - or popular titles, the supply pales in comparison to video games so even if there is never the same demand for video games as sports cards the supply is also exceptionally low.  Matte sticker NES games in test markets - most believe max 10,000 ever existed.  9,000 of those tossed in the trash can after being ripped open? Most of the remaining 1,000 beat to hell over 35 years - high quality, much less sealed are in very rare supply to say the least.  So yes, there is long term value in video game investing because there is long term imbalance of supply and demand.  And if there are people that only buy/sell for the value of it to make a profit then so be it. 

[guitarzombie | 924]

Long term value?  Id say you're smoking the hopium.  But hey, its your money to throw away not mine.

[GPX | 1,369]

16 minutes ago, VideoGameGradersLLC said:

Great point, very fair.  It's why we are being so aggressive with our Indiegogo Perks of deep discounts for those willing to give us a try.  We know we will not have the built in trust in the same way.  Also fair to consider the market has evolved since then, more demand and more understanding of video game grading.  

I’ve taken the time and read through your links (but not done the survey). It seems you have the right kind of intent, but I feel you are underestimating the heavyweights that you are up against. For starters, VGA/WATA has been in the collecting/grading scene for over 10 years. They have built a ton of relations with the most hardcore of collectors with the craziest amount of games in their collections. 

At the end of the day, it’s the consumers that are your target, and I’m unsure if this forum will give you the kind of support you need. The ones here who are fans of game grading are either pro-VGA or pro-WATA. By asking the members here to switch alliance to a new company, it needs to take a huge leap of faith to do so. 

Regarding your focus on Nes CIBs, I can see it being even more of a challenge for you to attract newcomers. The scenario is pretty much this:

- grade with WATA and consider selling on HA for x dollars

- grade with new company and consider selling on eBay for y dollars

Will your y dollars likely be greater than x? If yes, then you will get your consumers!

[OptOut | 8,884]

2 minutes ago, guitarzombie said:

Long term value?  Id say you're smoking the hopium.  But hey, its your money to throw away not mine.

Ahem...

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-new-choice-in-video-game-grading#/

WHOSE money is he throwing away again...

[VideoGameGradersLLC | 82]

So to address a few other points, WATA's relationships and some business practices including manipulation of the market are questionable in my opinion and part of the reason additional graders are needed.  

In terms of funding and a business plan.  I'm sorry I'm not going to publish our business plan on the internet, no business at any stage would ever do that.  As for funding, attempting to raise money for a startup business is very common.  The success or failure of this venture is not fully dependent on an Indiegogo campaign, I am fully prepared to fund this myself if necessary but minimizing risk to improve the odds of success is simply smart business.  But again, I'm not going to publish my personal and/or business P&L or any other financial data publicly on the internet. 

Not sure why my age matters. 

Many people are making assumptions because they don't see something published by me or I have specifically addressed this or that it means I'm not aware of it, or an idiot.  Fine, but every single aspect of this business is not out on the table, not open for public consumption.  While I certainly respect that you think it should be, that fact that it's not doesn't make it a failure on my part. 

The sportscard industry has seen many grading companies come and go but have several viable options right now - not just one or two.  And the market does show preferences for certain graders over others - that's the business of collecting/investing.  The same happens here - some people like VGA most people prefer WATA but both have huge backlogs of games to grade so there is demand for the service right now.  Does that last long term, obviously I think so. 

As for the antics and comments from @OptOut that's very disappointing but every thread has that guy I guess, for those (and that's most everyone else) who do actually care about your hobby and have provided honest feedback and opinions I appreciate it.