Console Debate #10: Turbo Grafx 16/PC Engine

[Tanooki | 4,940]

A pioneer in many ways, one that didn't get a fair shake in the US due to gross domestic NEC incompetence.  Here you have a system in the PC Engine side of things that really shook gamers in that region to the core and for those not in denial, elsewhere in the coming decades when you look back and compare to contemporaries of the time in consoles.

Here you have NEC teaming with Hudson and they create this hybrid 8 and 16bit system, one with so many of the right boxes checked that it was kind of just ridiculous.  It pounded the Famicom pretty well which was a surprise, and also it really put Sega into a corner over two generations of systems.  Despite even being older than the Gen/MD you have a system that often would have superior audio, superior graphics, superior color usage and still having partly 8bit parts to its core against a motorola beast.  But it didn't end there, they found a way while Nintendo was diddling around with GB and Sega being overly childish with the GG color system ads both peddling old 8bit games, to stuff a handheld out that not only was a 16bit machine but one that also ran the SAME GAMES on the go... no second library needed.  The GT/Express was something to truly behold, especially if you weren't saddled with the compromised US market cards.  Yet no it didn't stop there, who was the first to get a CD based console out and one that really shook people on the possibilities of content, quality of content, video, graphic made clips, insane audio... why again, NEC with the PCE/Turbo Duo of course.  Sega had to play catch up, Nintendo had to deal with Sony trying to screw them and not bothering in the slightest.

If we could shove the stupidity of the US branch of NEC into a wood chipper and let the Japanese side of the pond shovel the games over here in a similar flow instead of picking, choosing, and largely denying...who knows what would have been made of the US marketplace.  All that said, the card until CD did limit the potential until late due to the limited storage, and it also didn't have the prowess of the SNES either in doing some amazing visual tricks either, more could have been done with a different path with the system cards, but wasn't so I think an 8 is more than fair.

Keep in mind, SNES and PCE fought for the cleanest best copy at home of Street Fighter 2/CE at the time, and it's spooky how close the uniquely fat HuCard got to besting, and definitely matching how damn good the SNES release was.  Both clowned the Sega release pretty badly.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

I like this console so much that it's one of the few I'm going for a full library for (TG & PCE).  All of my dislikes are outside of the actual gaming aspect (only one control port, no AV out of the box, boxart looks like absolute shit in most cases, terrible marketing, etc), and all of my likes are to do with the actual game library; the Turbo plays like a super-charged NES to me, with mostly short arcady-type games that test your skills and reflexes, and that's the kind of gaming I love.

And I am sooooo glad they copied the NES and just put two buttons on the game pad; I don't want or need 8 buttons on my controller, and neither did about 95% of the SNES games published by Nintendo.... just saying!

Edited January 9, 2021 by Dr. Morbis

[PII | 1,886]

I didn't give it a rating because I've never actually played it, but while I've got at least a few more "maybe" consoles to acquire I'm pretty sure this is the last console that I've yet to acquire for my "Definitely" list.  Everything I've heard and seen made it pop out as a "must get at some indeterminate point in future for not too insane of a price."

[Sumez | 2,969]

12 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

It's your #1 console of all time?

Not arguing it, just a bit surprised.

Wait, what's surprising about that?
The PC Engine is, to me, the core essence of what a video game console is.

I could probably give 1 or 2 other consoles a 10/10, but I wouldn't know which to give higher priority.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Sumez

[Vectrex28 | 366]

10/10 system. I'm literally playing on my SuperGrafx as I write this. Ever since setting foot in Japan I fell in love with this system and I own waaaaaaay too many PC Engine-related gubbins by now, including a PC Engine LT which is one of the most prized items in my collection.

As far as games go, Soldier Blade, Daimakaimura SGX, and Rondo of Blood are some of the best games of all time, and the system has way more interesting games to play, such as Legendary Axe, which is prolly my favourite old-school sidescroller. Its sequel is also up there

And obviously, you cannot mention the plethora of amazing shooters for the system! Hudson, Konami, Naxat (sometimes), Namco just to name a few made so many amazing shooters for this system that I play regularly. I'd love to get Dead Moon as well but that's kind of an expensive one. Other good ones are Hany in the Sky, Cyber Core, Side Arms Hyperdyne, Metal Stoker, Hana Taka Daka, Ai Cho Aniki, just to name a few.

Also if you claim the boxarts are bad, then that's because most American boxarts of this period were absolute rubbish (look at the SMS...)

Japanese boxarts can be gorgeous, look at Soldier Blade or Rondo of Blood for instance

[Sumez | 2,969]

9 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

boxart looks like absolute shit in most cases

So terrible

[tbone3969 | 307]

1 hour ago, Vectrex28 said:

10/10 system. I'm literally playing on my SuperGrafx as I write this. Ever since setting foot in Japan I fell in love with this system and I own waaaaaaay too many PC Engine-related gubbins by now, including a PC Engine LT which is one of the most prized items in my collection.

As far as games go, Soldier Blade, Daimakaimura SGX, and Rondo of Blood are some of the best games of all time, and the system has way more interesting games to play, such as Legendary Axe, which is prolly my favourite old-school sidescroller. Its sequel is also up there

And obviously, you cannot mention the plethora of amazing shooters for the system! Hudson, Konami, Naxat (sometimes), Namco just to name a few made so many amazing shooters for this system that I play regularly. I'd love to get Dead Moon as well but that's kind of an expensive one. Other good ones are Hany in the Sky, Cyber Core, Side Arms Hyperdyne, Metal Stoker, Hana Taka Daka, Ai Cho Aniki, just to name a few.

Also if you claim the boxarts are bad, then that's because most American boxarts of this period were absolute rubbish (look at the SMS...)

Japanese boxarts can be gorgeous, look at Soldier Blade or Rondo of Blood for instance

There is some good box art for sure, especially on the Japanese side.

 

You have an LT.  I'm jealous.  I assume you had it refurbished.  Does it work well?

Edited January 9, 2021 by tbone3969

[Vectrex28 | 366]

17 minutes ago, tbone3969 said:

There is some good box art for sure, especially on the Japanese side.

 

You have an LT.  I'm jealous.  I assume you had it refurbished.  Does it work well?

 

[tbone3969 | 307]

IDK...  the box art looks dope to me.

 

 

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,550]

3 hours ago, Sumez said:

Wait, what's surprising about that?
The PC Engine is, to me, the core essence of what a video game console is.

I could probably give 1 or 2 other consoles a 10/10, but I wouldn't know which to give higher priority.

Just assuming most people would name usual suspects like NES, SNES, Genesis, PS1, etc. as their GOAT console.

I'd be curious to know what you think are the must-own titles so I could go research any that I maybe have never heard of.

[mbd39 | 2,026]

I've never seen one in person but I have played in emulation. My favorites were Splatterhouse and Rondo of Blood. There are a lot of shooters too for people who are into those. Along with Sega Master System it's really underrated in the US.

8/10

 

[Sumez | 2,969]

1 hour ago, Reed Rothchild said:

I'd be curious to know what you think are the must-own titles so I could go research any that I maybe have never heard of.

Man, I've listed those off so many times it's frustrating to me that I can't dig up any of the lists I've already written now , so I'll try to list some from the top of my head instead. Some of these might be a bit of a stretch, but it's a bunch of games I could think of that I think are worth digging into without ever requiring understanding of Japanese (the ones of these that require reading text are available in English), so that unfortunately leaves out a lot of RPGs, and stuff like Snatcher and Dawn of Ys.
A lot of them are arcade ports, but I've sticked to the ones that have the best or only reasonable ports on PCE. It would be easy to include a ton more solid ports, of shmups especially.

If there are any of these you aren't familiar with, at least check them out and see what they look like.

• Dracula X: Chi No Rondo
• Rainbow Islands (best port by a landslide, probably only good port?)
• Parasol Stars
• Ninja Spirit
• Son Son II
• Soldier Blade
• Nexzr
• Legend of Hero Tonma
• Splatterhouse
• Ys Book 1+2
• Ys III
• Legendary Axe 1 and 2
• Mr. Heli
• Spriggan
• Gate of Thunder
• Lords of Thunder
• Gekisha Boy
• Momotarou Katsugeki
• Coryoon
• Gunhed/Blazing Lazers
• Super Star Soldier
• Salamander
• Ai Cho Aniki
• Detana!! Twinbee
• Galaga '88
• Tatsujin
• Bloody Wolf
• Daisenpuu
• Jigoku Meguri (Bonze Adventure)
• Side Arms
• (Ginga Fukei Densetsu) Sapphire
• Dragon Egg
• Batman
• R-Type
• Vigilante
• Bomberman
• Bomberman '93
• Bomberman '94
• Adventure Island (wonderboy dragon's trap)
• New Adventure Island (actual adventure island)
• Dynastic Hero
• Wonderboy Monster Lair
• Dungeon Explorer 1 and 2
• Neutopia 1 and 2
• Fausseté Amour
• Renny Blaster
• Kaizou Ningen Shubibinman 2
• Magical Chase
• Pop 'n Magic
• Alien Crush
• Darius Alpha
• Pomping World (Pang)
• Tower of Druaga
• Bonk 1, 2 and 3
• Air Zonk
• Gomola Speed
• Veigues Tactical Gladiator
• Valkyrie No Densetsu
• Don Doko Don
• Genpei Touma Den
• Hana Taka Daka!?
• Marchen Maze
• Dragon Saber
• Dragon Spirit
• Mystic Formula
• Valis 2, 3 and 4
• Rayxanber 2 and 3
• Kaze Kiri
• Fray CD: Xak Gaiden
• Image Fight 1 and 2
• Aoi Blink
• Kyukyoku Tiger
• Cross Wiber
• Alice in Wonderdream
• Chew Man Fu
• Somer Assault
• Zipang

[ThePhleo | 2,185]

7,

Not a lot of fanfare, but a lot of good games. Had the makings of a great console, but Sega and Nintendo was just too much for NEC to handle.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

12 hours ago, Sumez said:

So terrible

I was referring to the American iterations; obviously, Japanese art is almost always good...

[Homer | 17]

Played a lot on a emulator a long time ago.  Have only played a real one a couple times.

The thing that I found surprising with this console is the quality of the games are usually pretty good. For instance the Sega ports a lot of times are arguably better than Sega Genesis ports.  

 

I really like the TG16.

[Sumez | 2,969]

10 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I was referring to the American iterations; obviously, Japanese art is almost always good...

Pretty unfair to judge the platform on what American releases did to the artwork though. I'm not sure that counts for anything.  

Weirdly enough the originally American releases mostly had pretty good art:

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

I got this console from a game store I partnered with in 2012. But it ended up not working no matter what I tried, so I had to return it and it soured me on the who thing for aome reason and I never got another one. I'll probably never dive back into it unless I found one at a flea market or garage sale, then I would probably get into it.

[Tanooki | 4,940]

8 hours ago, Sumez said:

Pretty unfair to judge the platform on what American releases did to the artwork though. I'm not sure that counts for anything.  

Weirdly enough the originally American releases mostly had pretty good art:

Oh entirely.  The box art on a majority of the US stuff, was crap compared, not SMS bad, but it was not going to help things.  The thing is though, it's 100% fair to dump on the US library because the spineless and grossly incompetent NEC US branch made one bad choice after another on what they allowed to get imported and translated into this market.  I mean what the hell?!  Look at the release dates on various stuff.  1943, SF2 CE, the Sega conversions (6+ titles), Namco's arcade stuff too, some of the Hudson misses like Bomberman 94(why?!), and I'm only scratching HuCards here.  If you want epic stupidity, get into the CDs, they're not even region locked, and if you line up the dates for release vs what Sega CD was doing at the time, it's infuriating.  Sure there are some games that would be a little harder to regionally bring over due to odd themes, heaps of translation, or just genres that didn't move here, but that wasn't the case on a lot of it.  Stopped Ys at 3?  No Dracula X?! Various shooters both CD and HuCard that would have worked...why?!  No spine, no common sense, didn't even look at what Sega had been peddling or even Nintendo.

In Japan Nintendo was being shoved around hard by them and Sega was made virtually into a fart in the wind for nothing but core fanboys (like Nintendo was for N64 or WiiU days.)  There just was no good excuse as they could have dramatically shifted history.  Sega would have been screwed in this market bringing out the Genesis against a TG16 given the quality.  By the time the Sega system hit TG would have been into a later 2nd generation of titles which were beyond what Sega peddled for easily a year, they've have been screwed, relegated to third tier status here and the dust bin of being most desired in PAL regions and south america.

[Tanooki | 4,940]

6 hours ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

I got this console from a game store I partnered with in 2012. But it ended up not working no matter what I tried, so I had to return it and it soured me on the who thing for aome reason and I never got another one. I'll probably never dive back into it unless I found one at a flea market or garage sale, then I would probably get into it.

Try getting a second hand TG16 mini off ebay for under retail.  The amount of games on there is staggeringly good given with a nice spread of choices.  If that makes you happy, then bother, because even flea markets and the rest of local caught onto the hard price scamming on the NEC goods, just forget it.  People like throwing around words lke Unicorn for stuff, but finding a cheap TG16 console let alone any game that's B to A tier is basically like that and it's sad.

[AstralSoul | 502]

Yet another console I have no actual experience with but have played a few dozen games for via Virtual Console and emulation. I thought about getting one of these for a brief moment. I think it seems like a decent console but there's not a ton of variety and I think I would get bored with it quickly. I rated it a 6/10 but I think I was too hasty, should've been at least a 7. 

[Sumez | 2,969]

11 hours ago, Tanooki said:

The thing is though, it's 100% fair to dump on the US library because the spineless and grossly incompetent NEC US branch made one bad choice after another on what they allowed to get imported and translated into this market

That's 100% fair.

It's not fair to base your evaluation of the system on what the US branch did, though. That would be like saying the Saturn doesn't have any shooters, or that the X360 was a massive failure because it sold poorly in Japan.  

[Estil | 1,265]

Ah yes the good ol' Ross Perot console as I like to call it...you know the "third party" option of the 4th gen?  With the SNES being the "Bush" console (the more traditional one) and the GEN being the "Clinton" console (the cooler hipper sax playing one)

[Sumez | 2,969]

Gross 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Sumez

[elprincipe | 142]

9. One of my very favorite systems, but I can't put it on the same level as the NES, which is probably the only 10/10 system for me.

As a side note, is the TurboGrafx-16 the system that people misspell the name of the most of any system? I've seen everything from the topic name here (Turbo Graphx) to TurboGrafix, TurboGraphics, etc. It seems the name was ill-chosen as people have a hard time remembering it? Are there any other systems that people misspell the name of a lot?

[Strange | 1,700]

I didn’t vote because I don’t feel I have enough experience actually playing the library, but one thing I’ve always heard when getting into TG16/PCE is that the community surrounding it is... abrasive.

That’s not a fault of the system or its library, just something I’ve heard more than once.