Wata - A year and a half after

[MrMark0673 | 197]

28 minutes ago, jonebone said:

HA and Wata are two separate issues to be honest. There is plenty of great reading out there about the legal proceeds and sketchiness of HA and Jim. There is absolutely zero doubt he is pumping the market and trying to make a killing. 

Gotta hand it to you Jone, I thought I had done my homework.  Googling Jim Halperin Heritage Auctions lawsuit was eye opening.  Wow.

36 minutes ago, jonebone said:

As for Wata, they are only get paid paltry peanuts based on volume....

Only thing that bothers me a bit from Wata are all the HA ads in your return package... 

If they have any sort of monetary deal involved with HA (be it the sale of ads in return packages or other dealings) you have to factor that into to both their gross cash coming in as well as the terrible optics associated with so many of the same people appearing in the buyer/seller/grader/auction house category.  If WATA makes any money directly from HA in any capacity, it's an abysmal look if nothing else based on all of the things I've mentioned before.

Anyway, I agree with like 99% of what Jone and Tom have said, and I won't gum up the thread any longer repeating things I've already stated.

[TheBiRD | 137]

When I started this poll, I tought people would have say Yes by far!!! Reading your point of views guys is very interesting. I couldn't  understand what was wrong for some of you with Wata. Now I understand.

That beeing said, for me, as a very very little fish in this hobby, I thought, and still think that Wata is a good thing. I think it's cool, not only to think I have a mint CIB piece, but to have it confirmed by a third part with expertize. Even if I didn't use Wata yet, it's just a mather of time before I did it.

And beside all the speculation and maybe the ''corruption''!!  This hobby has never be that alive and that publicized. And I think Wata, with his way to operate, build his buisness and have all those ''friendship'' relation, is for something. 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by TheBiRD

[Jim Jimmer | 234]

I voted yes as Wata really made the submission Process easy and straightforward and allowed me to start grading my games with little to no headaches. Their scale is also more intuitive to me.

 

With that being said, one thing i like about VGA is that we have no clue who the graders are. I cringe when i see pics of potentially the biggest wata clients in the community with Wata management and graders on instagram, as that, in my opinion, may lead to an appearance of « favouritism » that could taint the grading outcome. I am NOT saying this is what is happening, but in appearance it could be « misinterpreted » as such. 

I couldn’t care less about the HA partnership and i find myself competing with people with deeper pockets than me on games i want, which sucks but isnt necessarily Wata’s fault. What i care about is the objectivity of grades day in and day out. If objectivity remains then thats all that matters to me, pump n dump schemes or not.

 

oh and nice site! 1st post

[guitarzombie | 924]

4 hours ago, Bronty said:

How would you feel if you started a business, spent 3 years of your life on it, were compensated in no way except through grading (ie NOT compensated by auction results), and had people calling you a thief and saying you weren't worthy of trust.    Its so easy to sling rocks.   (and to commit libel I might add).

You don't have to like it, and you don't have to like Wata, and you don't have to like Deniz.   But words have meanings and so far as I know Deniz is no thief.   Its so easy to be less than careful with what you're saying and its so unfair to the other side.   Whether we are talking Wata, VGA, or Pizza Hut.

My idea had more to do with people who have those games lol.  Do they give in to the hype and take the crazy money, or refuse because they think its a house of cards.  

My issue is that it seems so forced and phoney and it seems like to me the people with the money to do it are trying to manipulate it, selling it to people from other hobbies its the new thing and going to be an investment.  

[Bronty | 187]

I’ll provide some points to think about from what might be a different perspective  then the ‘conspiracy theory’ POVs some here subscribe to.

1. I don’t know Jim but I’ve heard enough to believe Jim is already a very, very wealthy man.   Those that think he’s doing this to get rich or whatever?   It’s so incredibly off base.   It’s like thinking Eminem is going to get rich off of you downloading a song or something.   The fact that Deniz even managed to get heritage’s Attention to even want to list games is such a major coup for growing the hobby that words can’t even describe it.    Until you have a real platform for the sale of games in this kind of setting, the hobby cannot grow past a certain point.   I don’t think you guys appreciate just how much this changes everything, or perhaps you do, and that’s why some of you are lashing out. 

2.  As for Jim’s and Heritages repitation, I know this.    I’ve never heard first hand from any collector of comics or cards or coins (and I’ve dealt with so many people that have done business with them, as I have myself) of anything less than professional dealings.    Do you have any idea the amount of work that goes into running an enterprise like that?    Someone at the top of that generally has very little time for monkeying around and again, I don’t know Jim but from what I’ve seen, that’s not him.   

3.  Absolutely and of course some of the matters reported in the press are self serving and meant to promote the hobby and bring in new people and  indirectly to increase values.   And what in the world is wrong with that?  We have more interest from more new people than we’ve had in a long time and they in turn are interested in bringing in more to join them.   We should be celebrating that.    We can stay a rinky dink hobby or we can let new people in with open arms.    Yes, perhaps they can’t get to level 72 in bubble bobble.   I would suggest that doesn’t matter.  I have yet to meet a single new buyer that didn’t have some personal memories and nostalgia for the games to go along with their interest in collecting.      

4.  These types of articles aren’t going away.    They were writing articles like this about comic books in the 1960s, and they still are.    Sadly, with the same ‘Zip Boom Pow’ references.    People love the idea of junk in the attic with value.   We have 25 + years of antiques roadshow (plus now storage wars and so many other shows) to attest to the popularity of that type of thing with the masses.    The “junk worth it’s weight in gold” angle is tired , but it works. 

5.   Some of you are pissed that you’ve been doing this for a long time and haven’t made ‘gorillions.’    Richardhead’s response that he’s been doing this all wrong was honest.     Or perhaps just see a lot of change and find it scary or intimidating.    I can understand that but at the end of the day, we are all pretty alike.    We have some connection to the material, some connection to collecting itself, and given a choice between our stuff going up versus going down, we will generally choose up.   

6. I’m not sure what some of you think is involved, exactly, in being a wata advisor but I can tell you that I’ve given no advice since the doors opened.   I’m sure Jones experience was the same.   And I received a cumulative total of exactly zero compensation.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by Bronty

[the tall guy | 63]

I like rinky dink hobbies just fine (as I add to my growing Christmas light empire).

I think very highly of Deniz, always have, always will, he's my friend.  I'm so not in the circles of people that deal with this "high end" stuff that it has really no effect on me, just glad I got all the carts before everything went silly.

[jonebone | 1,307]

5 hours ago, Bronty said:

I’ll provide some points to think about from what might be a different perspective  then the ‘conspiracy theory’ POVs some here subscribe to.

1. I don’t know Jim but I’ve heard enough to believe Jim is already a very, very wealthy man.   Those that think he’s doing this to get rich or whatever?   It’s so incredibly off base.   It’s like thinking Eminem is going to get rich off of you downloading a song or something.   The fact that Deniz even managed to get heritage’s Attention to even want to list games is such a major coup for growing the hobby that words can’t even describe it.    Until you have a real platform for the sale of games in this kind of setting, the hobby cannot grow past a certain point.   I don’t think you guys appreciate just how much this changes everything, or perhaps you do, and that’s why some of you are lashing out. 

2.  As for Jim’s and Heritages repitation, I know this.    I’ve never heard first hand from any collector of comics or cards or coins (and I’ve dealt with so many people that have done business with them, as I have myself) of anything less than professional dealings.    Do you have any idea the amount of work that goes into running an enterprise like that?    Someone at the top of that generally has very little time for monkeying around and again, I don’t know Jim but from what I’ve seen, that’s not him.   

Trump is a wealthy business man and I wouldn't exactly call him a commendable man.  Not even touching the politics side, just making the point that being wealthy means nothing more than you are good at making money (or inheriting money).  Doesn't say a thing about your ethics or other measures of your character.

I just suggest you read this small article that touches on some of his history.  It's pretty staggering honestly.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1227/156.html#433c1c052e07

So he was scamming people at 13. He returned $100k in stolen money (investing in a non existent business) and no charges were filed.

Then he founded a coin grading company, over inflated grades and heavily marketed the industry to lure in new people making millions.  He had to pay out $1.2M in restitution and closed up shop.  Article goes on an on.

You can literally go through that article and replace every reference of "coins" to "video games" and it is almost exactly what is happening today, except I do believe Wata is honest and Halperin has absolutely no influence on the grading process.  He is at least removed from that step. But the Wata scale is extremely misleading to someone who doesn't understand video games.  A VGA 80 to 85 is pretty much a lock at 9.0 and higher unless you had a fluke game that had a poor box with pristine wrap (those are not the norm and would map to 8.0 / 8.5 with A+ or higher, instead of 9.0 and higher with B+ to A wraps).  

So yes, this is slightly offtopic as it is more to HA than Wata, but pretty relevant to the thread. 

[tbone3969 | 304]

15 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Trump is a wealthy business man and I wouldn't exactly call him a commendable man.  Not even touching the politics side, just making the point that being wealthy means nothing more than you are good at making money (or inheriting money).  Doesn't say a thing about your ethics or other measures of your character.

I just suggest you read this small article that touches on some of his history.  It's pretty staggering honestly.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1227/156.html#433c1c052e07

So he was scamming people at 13. He returned $100k in stolen money (investing in a non existent business) and no charges were filed.

Then he founded a coin grading company, over inflated grades and heavily marketed the industry to lure in new people making millions.  He had to pay out $1.2M in restitution and closed up shop.  Article goes on an on.

You can literally go through that article and replace every reference of "coins" to "video games" and it is almost exactly what is happening today, except I do believe Wata is honest and Halperin has absolutely no influence on the grading process.  He is at least removed from that step. But the Wata scale is extremely misleading to someone who doesn't understand video games.  A VGA 80 to 85 is pretty much a lock at 9.0 and higher unless you had a fluke game that had a poor box with pristine wrap (those are not the norm and would map to 8.0 / 8.5 with A+ or higher, instead of 9.0 and higher with B+ to A wraps).  

So yes, this is slightly offtopic as it is more to HA than Wata, but pretty relevant to the thread. 

Very interesting article.  Thanks for sharing.

[Bronty | 187]

two sides to a story jone.   I found this with a little google.  Also found some coin forum talk about NCI coins sent to modern companies and getting the same or similar grades (sometimes over, sometimes under, sometimes same).

https://www.ha.com/c/ref/halperin.zx?type=surl-forbes

(Note not only Jim's own words but that of George Douglas, former Commissioner to the FTC)

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Bronty

[Bronty | 187]

44 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Trump is a wealthy business man and I wouldn't exactly call him a commendable man.  Not even touching the politics side, just making the point that being wealthy means nothing more than you are good at making money (or inheriting money).  Doesn't say a thing about your ethics or other measures of your character.

 

Agree 100%.   What I don't care for is everyone leaping to assumptions.   Find me an auction house NOT mired in controversy (even ebay?).    Its a business where a certain percentage of the people that deal with you are going to get pissed off.   

I've just not seen any evidence over my past 15 years of watching them of anything other than acting precisely as an auction house should.   That doesn't necessarily mean saving buyers from themselves btw, because they also have responsibilities to the seller.    It means, more or less, providing enough info for the buyer to get reasonable information and the seller to get an opportunity at a good prices, and having the logistics behind the scenes to keep everything running smoothly.

Meanwhile, I think for a lot of people on this site its their first experience with an auction house and so they think its all nefarious and shady.    From what I've seen and from talking to people who use them regularly, Heritage is anything but.

So when people suggest that they are scheming around video games (when games are a rounding error to their overall operation) is just.. well its naive.   Its fearful.   Its also inaccurate, to the best of my belief.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Bronty

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

41 minutes ago, tbone3969 said:

Very interesting article.  Thanks for sharing.

"Still, Halperin has found a way to exploit the system. In lieu of running his own grading agency, he has invested in them and, by his own admission, has made millions in capital gains over the years (the agencies process perhaps 60,000 coins a month)."

 

Lol wat. Seems like round 2 for this guy. Literally stole $100k at the age of 13 through fraud and hasn't looked back. Talk about wholesome, American values! All he as to do is talk about grabbing some one by the and he's a contender for the 2024 presidency!

[Bronty | 187]

read the article I posted.   

 

⁶ That is not what I said. Long after the interview, a Forbes' fact-checker essentially asked me if I was willing to say I was a scoundrel as a teenager, and I foolishly answered, "I guess at 13 I was." It's a minor distinction, but shows the slant of the article.

⁷ Not that it matters much, but the sales network I advertised at age 13 was anything but "nonexistent". I delivered exactly what was promised (advertising in publications with a specific circulation), though in retrospect, most participants who bought ads from me for between $4 and $20 probably expected to get more orders than they actually received. I ran the business for 18 months without a single complaint lodged to any authority as far as I know (any participant who requested a refund got one immediately), and only after a sack of outgoing mail was inadvertently left in my parents' basement did the postal inspectors receive complaints. My father counseled me to agree to shut down the business and send out refunds, wise advice I reluctantly and tearfully heeded. I opened my stamp and coin shop as a summer project the following year using the only asset I had left, a prepaid lease on a store in nearby Cochituate, Massachusetts.

 

 

¹¹ NCI was the first private grading service, and established many of the principles that allowed NGC and PCGS to eventually reshape the coin business for the better.

¹² NCI going out of business had nothing to do with the FTC. PCGS and NGC came out with better products, and after PCGS appeared, some unscrupulous telemarketers began selling NCI coins at PCGS prices. Heritage never sold any coins at above fair market, nor did we encourage such behavior in any way.

¹³ NCI graded according to published standards. The NCI Grading Guide text I wrote in 1984 was the precursor to How to Grade U.S. Coins, which even Forbes says is a classic). PCGS adopted virtually identical standards, but at first interpreted those standards more stringently than NCI did. Today NGC and PCGS grading is virtually identical to, and in many cases slightly more liberal than, the way NCI graded most coins throughout its existence during the 1980s.

¹⁴ This is perhaps the most egregious and misleading phrase in the Forbes article. Anyone reading it would think that Heritage owned or controlled CRCG. In fact, Heritage merely gave CRCG a credit line! The theory the FTC used was that by providing a credit line to CRGC we were "aiding and abetting" their activities. Interestingly, the immediately preceding Commissioner of the FTC wrote an open letter admonishing his successors for propagating such an overzealous enforcement theory (click here for the entire text of the letter).

----------

Summary In conclusion, the FTC's review of HCC's business practices uncovered no tangible evidence of deception or intent on HCC's part. Rather, the Commission's staff has fashioned the novel argument that since HCC may have known (or should have known) some facts from which HCC could infer that CRCG was deceiving its customers, HCC is itself culpable for CRCG's deception. In my opinion there is no way a company such as HCC could have anticipated such a drastic change in position on the part of the FTC. Furthermore, I believe HCC's actions were entirely consistent with ethical behavior.

In my judgment, the FTC's investigation would, if tested at trial, fail to support its charges against HCC. I do, however, understand and appreciate the business considerations that led to HCC's settlement with the FTC.

Very truly yours,
George W. Douglas

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Bronty

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

2 minutes ago, Bronty said:

read the article I posted.   

 

⁶ That is not what I said. Long after the interview, a Forbes' fact-checker essentially asked me if I was willing to say I was a scoundrel as a teenager, and I foolishly answered, "I guess at 13 I was." It's a minor distinction, but shows the slant of the article.

Lol someone says "hey Kyle! Mind if we call you a scoundrel and a slam article??" Will get the same answer every time. Yes, I mind. No you may not. 

⁷ though in retrospect, most participants who bought ads from me for between $4 and $20 probably expected to get more orders than they actually received.

Literally the definition on scamming. 

Why did they expect to get something more? Where at the logs of no complaints? How could a customer reasonably file a complaint with a company that doesn't legally exist? It's not hard for me to see this is the statement of someone dodging guilt. 

[DefaultGen | 5,402]

1 hour ago, jonebone said:

You can literally go through that article and replace every reference of "coins" to "video games" and it is almost exactly what is happening today, except I do believe Wata is honest and Halperin has absolutely no influence on the grading process.  He is at least removed from that step. But the Wata scale is extremely misleading to someone who doesn't understand video games.  A VGA 80 to 85 is pretty much a lock at 9.0 and higher unless you had a fluke game that had a poor box with pristine wrap (those are not the norm and would map to 8.0 / 8.5 with A+ or higher, instead of 9.0 and higher with B+ to A wraps).  

I mean, I don't disagree, but it sounds like Jim's grading inflation problems were largely that he graded/misgraded coins on the established 70 point coin scale, whereas Wata and VGA both use different 10 point scales they made up themselves and Wata's numbers are just higher, intentionally or not.

I think there's a mix of the Wata scale still being relatively new on the scene and dealers trying to push high-sounding grades as "high grade" causing price inflation for middling stuff. My guess is once more Wata games flood the market and we get past the feeding frenzy and period of people grading literally any old pile of SMB3 parts, the actual high grade stuff will be seen more like comics where picky collectors and investors specifically want high 9.6s and 9.8s, not just an 8.5 because that sounds relatively close-ish to 10. And if people are buying Wata games right now based on a number rather than how nice the game is... 

Edited October 29, 2019 by DefaultGen

[Bronty | 187]

17 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Literally the definition on scamming. 

Why did they expect to get something more? Where at the logs of no complaints? How could a customer reasonably file a complaint with a company that doesn't legally exist? It's not hard for me to see this is the statement of someone dodging guilt. 

Honestly, at the age of 13?   We're talkin' about practice.

If there is one paragraph in the article that interested me when I read it, it was the accusation of deceptive practices at NCI and the payment of restitution under the FTC, because those things don't happen lightly - they happen subject to formal process and as a result with much more rigour than any journalist or layman could apply.

That was, in reading the article Jone posted, the part that made me think.

However, when I see written public support from the former commissioner of the FTC openly pledging support for Heritage's position and even for its ethics, that makes me think that what happened was not so nefarious right?   Its the equivalent of a former judge questioning the way another judge has applied the law, in public.   That generally Does. Not. Happen. Lightly.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Bronty

[Bronty | 187]

7 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

I mean, I don't disagree, but it sounds like Jim's grading inflation problems were largely that he graded/misgraded coins on the established 70 point coin scale, whereas Wata and VGA both use different 10 point scales they made up themselves and Wata's numbers are just higher, intentionally or not.

I think there's a mix of the Wata scale still being relatively new on the scene and dealers trying to push high-sounding grades as "high grade" causing price inflation for middling stuff. My guess is once more Wata games flood the market and we get past the feeding frenzy and period of people grading literally any old pile of SMB3 parts, the actual high grade stuff will be seen more like comics where picky collectors and investors specifically want high 9.6s and 9.8s, not just an 8.5 because that sounds relatively close-ish to 10. And if people are buying Wata games right now based on a number rather than how nice the game is... 

I also think that people view all these separate parties acting in their own self interest as some kind of nefarious and coordinated scheme.

Wata grades 'em.

HA (and clink) auction 'em.

Private people buy and sell 'em.

The press writes about 'em.

Those parties are generally unrelated but not everyone get that, yet.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Bronty

[DefaultGen | 5,402]

3 minutes ago, Bronty said:

I also think that people view all these separate parties acting in their own self interest as some kind of nefarious and coordinated scheme.

Wata grades 'em.

HA (and clink) auction 'em.

Private people buy and sell 'em.

The press writes about 'em.

Those parties are generally unrelated but not everyone get that, yet.

 

And we complain about 'em.

[Bronty | 187]

Just now, DefaultGen said:

And we complain about 'em.

mauahhaahah kudos!   That's funny

[Californication | 1,477]

The most surprising thing for me in the article was that the coin industry is a billion dollar industry. Color me ignorant. That sounds super boring. 

[snes_collector | 56]

4 hours ago, the tall guy said:

I like rinky dink hobbies just fine (as I add to my growing Christmas light empire).

I agree to this, because they are usually more fun. When things start to get serious, things usually get a whole let less fun. Which is how I feel about all of this.

I'm curious as to how many collectors actually collect sealed games, I'd guesstimate it being in the single digits.

[GPX | 1,369]

I’m a neutral observer, having graded VGA games but not yet done any WATA grading. From what I can tell WATA provides a service that would be handy in today’s market of repro/scam sellers of CIBs. This was the original necessary selling point of VGA for the sealed games - authentication. 

I believe the original intention by WATA was to provide a useful service for a segment of the collecting community. However, I think somewhere along the way, there seems to be misdirection from their original intent. From a bystander point of view, I’m seeing a lot of backlash from a lot of the WATA consumers in the rates of their service, and at the same time, seeing WATA actively promoting their stuff with links to HA and “news” articles that have them in their interviews. 

What would be best is for them to actually focus more on their actual stated service, and try and complete their rates of return of games and better communication with their consumers. Because currently, it gives a negative perception (at least for me) that they are more into promotion of their services rather than actual performing the service!

 

[jonebone | 1,307]

I'm no investigative journalist, but surely where there is smoke, there is fire. Maybe it's a small fire, maybe a large fire, maybe a wildfire, but something caused the smoke. People can reach their own conclusions but you won't catch me defending the guy.

Bottom line, capitalism is a great thing that rewards people for innovation. But pure unethical greed is nothing more than getting rich at the expense of others.

[GPX | 1,369]

On 10/28/2019 at 11:27 AM, JinxtheCat said:

The biggest takeaway for me is the WATA/GoCollect/Hertitage influence brought in a new tranche of people to the hobby.

 

This is a tenuous analogy...hang with me......but the new "comicbook" crowd feel like the rich people from developed countries that travel to a relatively poverty stricken vacation destination.  They bring in their strong foreign currency, spend "lavishly" relative to locals, and only stay at a few choice spots.  Choice spots = high end sealed games.  The economies in those destination cities/towns completely change (sealed and certain CIBs skyrocket) as the locals (old collectors) cater to the new tourist money (comicbros) as prices soar.  The surrounding cities (lesser CIBs, set collectors) in that same country that the tourists don't travel to as much may experience a slight inflation rise (reasoning for so many "nos" on this poll) due to the knock on effects of the influx of new money (workers flocking to beach resorts to work for more pay = wage rise in other cities).  

In the end, some locals are better off (monetizing pieces at record prices), some are not (set collectors, CIBs, non-nintendo pieces), but overall it feels disingenuous.  Outsiders have seriously impacted the economy and the culture and they're doing it because it's cheap holiday (or cheap investment in their eyes) and not because they truly care about the island (or games).  

 

I think that's what bothers me more than prices going up.  If the core sealed collectors for whatever reason just started to get more aggressive, and prices began to rise organically from a group that truly valued the nostalgia - that feels good to me.  Sitting here watching thousands and thousands of dollars dropped on graded games they don't give a frog's fat ass about feels bad man.  

I like the analogy BUT, and this is where I feel some of the hate is being thrown at the current situation..

No matter how rich you are, no matter what foreign land you come across, you would often first ask “what’s the price on this?” Then you would pay that price or barter for that price to come down.

The current price blow out seems more like this analogy:

Tourist: I’ll pay you $100,000 for this item I have a keen interest on.

Local: Are you sure you don’t want to ask for the price first?

Tourist: nahh, I’m good. 

Local: ok then!

Tourist (A) to another tourist (B): got this item cheap for $100,000! So much nostalgia and significance!

Tourist (B): I wish to pay this item for $150,000!

Local: are you sure? We have never sold that amount before.

Tourist (B): nahh it’s ok, Tourist (A) told me the price already and I think I’m offering a fair price.

Local: ok then!

[Bronty | 187]

19 minutes ago, GPX said:

I like the analogy BUT, and this is where I feel some of the hate is being thrown at the current situation..

No matter how rich you are, no matter what foreign land you come across, you would often first ask “what’s the price on this?” Then you would pay that price or barter for that price to come down.

The current price blow out seems more like this analogy:

Tourist: I’ll pay you $100,000 for this item I have a keen interest on.

Local: Are you sure you don’t want to ask for the price first?

Tourist: nahh, I’m good. 

Local: ok then!

Tourist (A) to another tourist (B): got this item cheap for $100,000! So much nostalgia and significance!

Tourist (B): I wish to pay this item for $150,000!

Local: are you sure? We have never sold that amount before.

Tourist (B): nahh it’s ok, Tourist (A) told me the price already and I think I’m offering a fair price.

Local: ok then!

I like the analogy too but I think its more like this:

Tourist:   I'd like to buy this beachfront property for 100k!   that's crazy cheap compared to back home.

Tourist B:  I'd like to buy this beachfront property for 150k!  that's crazy cheap compared to back home.

 

At some point, when we get to tourist C, D, E or F - it won't look so cheap and it will flatten out.   Nothing cures high prices like high prices.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Bronty

[Californication | 1,477]

These real estate analogy's just make me think gentrification. 

The obvious difference is that I don't think this will affect the average gamer/collector. 

My irritance is the cultural appropriation, but honestly even that Idc about much anymore. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Californication