Wata - A year and a half after

[TheBiRD | 137]

Created by known and respected guys in the hobby. Guys who know what they do, and were proud to offer something better that VgA. Wata seems to be acclamed in March 2018 when it was introduce. But what about your opinion? Does Wata really better that VGA? Does Wata cib and loose cart a good thing for the hobby? Does Wata "buisness affiliations" created hype in games prices? At the end, in your overall opinion, does Wata a good thing for the hobby?

Edited October 27, 2019 by TheBiRD

[Romiked2689 | 120]

Everything so far says yes it’s a good thing for the hobby and me. Keep going wata and stay true to your grades 

[fcgamer | 4,719]

I personally don't like it. While it might not be 100% fair to link the recent situation with NA and the large volume of comic collectors entering the hobby to Wata, they did have a large influence on it. It's always important to get new blood into the hobby to keep it from stagnation, though I'm not sure I like the direction one section of the hobby took after Wata came around.

 

[DefaultGen | 5,400]

Sure, competition and innovation in the high end graded space is good. I separate Wata out from the hype and speculation that followed, since I wouldn't really consider the prices people pay for CIB TMNTs Wata's fault.

And hey, at least in the short term I can walk into a game store or the guy that just uses VGPC at the flea market and maybe pull out a $40 NES variant that's "worth" $250 now. When was the last time game hunting was this fun?

[MinusWorlds | 193]

4 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

Sure, competition and innovation in the high end graded space is good. I separate Wata out from the hype and speculation that followed, since I wouldn't really consider the prices people pay for CIB TMNTs Wata's fault.

And hey, at least in the short term I can walk into a game store or the guy that just uses VGPC at the flea market and maybe pull out a $40 NES variant that's "worth" $250 now. When was the last time game hunting was this fun?

That’s so true, Wata has certainly reinvigorated the hunting game. 

5 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I personally don't like it. While it might not be 100% fair to link the recent situation with NA and the large volume of comic collectors entering the hobby to Wata, they did have a large influence on it. It's always important to get new blood into the hobby to keep it from stagnation, though I'm not sure I like the direction one section of the hobby took after Wata came around.

 

You’re right, they did have a large influence, but I don’t think where we currently are was entirely intentional. Sure they wanted to lure the comic crowd in, but I don’t think anyone could have predicted what that would lead to. 

Is Wata good for the hobby...for me it’s a resounding yes. Wata and VGA both are. Competition is good and we now have a much clearer idea of where the strengths lie with each. I send the majority of my games to Wata, but that doesn’t mean I won’t use VGA going forward. Every game will come down to an individual decision. If the wrap is like glass and the box is decent, it’s going to VGA. If the box is super sharp but the wrap might be a little scuffed it’s going to Wata.

I also give Wata a significant edge on being able to identify fakes and authentic sticker seals. They really are video game experts, VGA is strictly a grading company. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

 

 

[MrMark0673 | 197]

WATA is good for:

- People who work for the company.

- Their advisory board.

- People directly affiliated with Heritage/ComicLink/GoCollect.

- People who have sold for multiples of former “value” on HA and related sites.

- People who have been part of a manipulative puff piece article as a buyer/seller/member related to the auction house responsible for the sale/WATA owners and advisors.  Often the same person can fall into multiple groups in the above simultaneously. 

Seeing the “my first WATA submission” thread on NA shows how they handle a “typical” customer.  They’re turn around tiers are a joke and their communication is worse.  Been a ton of errors in listings on their games since their very short time grading, and obvious things like calling something a hang tab when there very obviously isn’t one present.

Couldn’t be less impressed with the company personally.  Would still consider using them as a profiteering service, but I’m not going to pretend that something like a beat to shit Attack of the Killer Tomatoes is a 4 figure game just because someone wants to spend that much on one.

[ALTQQ | 87]

Nah, I think grading cib or loose tapes is dumb. I'm not even a fan of grading sealed stuff in general either. What makes one persons opinion of condition better than someone else's?

[Gloves | 11,761]

I'm against grading CIB games. It takes opened and perfectly playabe games out of the market for those of us who do care to play them. Indeed it's technically the same for Sealed grading, but at the very least I can see from a person who collects sealed's eyes and go yeah, I wanna protect that seal. 

But as someone who collects CIBs so I can go read the box and manual, AND whip out the game to play it? The whole thing rubs me the wrong way.

[Link | 2,708]

2 hours ago, MinusWorlds said:

I don’t think anyone could have predicted what that would lead to. 

I do. But there was no reason to say or think anything about it unless one’s opinion was, or could be taken as, not overwhelmingly positive. Which would then get shouted down because “the founders are good guys /from our community”

[VegHead | 127]

I don't find myself staying attached to sealed stuff.  I need to play a game to have the feels for it.  I'm not going to tell someone what they should or should not collect, but I have no interest in services like WATA or VGA anymore.  Having that barrier between myself and the object makes it less tangible for me.  Sure, it keeps the item in nice condition, but I want to interact with the things I own.  I believe there is so much more to games than merely their physical appearance, and the more senses you can engage while experiencing it, the more memorable the game will be.

As an example, I burned sandalwood incense fairly regularly while playing Final Fantasy VII the first time.  That association has stuck with me ever since, and gave me years of pleasant flashbacks every time I got a whiff of that smell.  Burning incense around a collectible would probably give most collectors the freaks, but it's what enhanced the experience for me.

[Gloves | 11,761]

Just now, epiclotus said:

I don't find myself staying attached to sealed stuff.  I need to play a game to have the feels for it.  I'm not going to tell someone what they should or should not collect, but I have no interest in services like WATA or VGA anymore.  Having that barrier between myself and the object makes it less tangible for me.  Sure, it keeps the item in nice condition, but I want to interact with the things I own.  I believe there is so much more to games than merely their physical appearance, and the more senses you can engage while experiencing it, the more memorable the game will be.

As an example, I burned sandalwood incense fairly regularly while playing Final Fantasy VII the first time.  That association has stuck with me ever since, and gave me years of pleasant flashbacks every time I got a whiff of that smell.  Burning incense around a collectible would probably give most collectors the freaks, but it's what enhanced the experience for me.

I associate these marshmallow candies with Joe & Mac on the NES:

[themisfit138 | 523]

I am against grading in any hobby. 

[jonebone | 1,307]

Eh, pros and cons. I personally prefer a smaller hobby where things are more affordable. What they've done has expanded the hobby and have made certain items drastically more expensive. I can sell things for a lot more, and I have, but I'd rather expand the collection cheaper then generate a lot more profit.

[guillavoie | 1,208]

The 2/3 'No' ratio we have so far is quite telling of the 'pressure' of self censorship that the members felt on NA about anything discussed about WATA. All threads looked to be overly positive, but it seems that it didn't reflect the general sentiment of the community. Maybe we come off a little anti-WATA from the context surrounding the launch of VGS, but still, I'm sure people feel more comfortable to voice their personal opinion about this on here VS there.

I can say for myself that I hold some of my criticism because I didn't want to argue with multiples replies trying to deny my opinions.

[Richardhead | 2,813]

Eh, the only reason I hate it is because I sold off a bunch of shit years ago for a good price. Had I kept it until now and got it graded, I’d have a shit ton more money to buy more games with. 
That being said, I’m not out for those sticker seals, first prints and whatever nonsense people are paying thousands of dollars for. I’m out for a collection of shit I like. 
Can we add an “indifferent” option to this poll ?

[Prime2099 | 176]

So reading that NA thread, is the market being manipulated by a few people who either work for the company or Heritage and are just selling these games between each other to make it look like they are in high demand?? Or am I reading that wrong?

[a3quit4s | 4,092]

Meh no opinion really. I almost sent some of my games to be graded for shits n gigs but after seeing all the problems they have had with turnaround times and customer communication I decided against it. Its probably good and bad for the community as everything is. 

[JinxtheCat | 2]

The biggest takeaway for me is the WATA/GoCollect/Hertitage influence brought in a new tranche of people to the hobby.

 

This is a tenuous analogy...hang with me......but the new "comicbook" crowd feel like the rich people from developed countries that travel to a relatively poverty stricken vacation destination.  They bring in their strong foreign currency, spend "lavishly" relative to locals, and only stay at a few choice spots.  Choice spots = high end sealed games.  The economies in those destination cities/towns completely change (sealed and certain CIBs skyrocket) as the locals (old collectors) cater to the new tourist money (comicbros) as prices soar.  The surrounding cities (lesser CIBs, set collectors) in that same country that the tourists don't travel to as much may experience a slight inflation rise (reasoning for so many "nos" on this poll) due to the knock on effects of the influx of new money (workers flocking to beach resorts to work for more pay = wage rise in other cities).  

In the end, some locals are better off (monetizing pieces at record prices), some are not (set collectors, CIBs, non-nintendo pieces), but overall it feels disingenuous.  Outsiders have seriously impacted the economy and the culture and they're doing it because it's cheap holiday (or cheap investment in their eyes) and not because they truly care about the island (or games).  

 

I think that's what bothers me more than prices going up.  If the core sealed collectors for whatever reason just started to get more aggressive, and prices began to rise organically from a group that truly valued the nostalgia - that feels good to me.  Sitting here watching thousands and thousands of dollars dropped on graded games they don't give a frog's fat ass about feels bad man.  

[OptOut | 8,881]

It may surprise a few people, but my opinion on WATA as a service is generally favourable. I'm not a sealed collector kinda guy, of course, and I'm pretty sure I will never own a graded game. But I think it is good that this service exists and is available for those who do care about that kind of thing, and despite a number of mistakes we have seen come out of the WATA grading process I would still probably trust the expertise there more than VGA. So, strictly as a company offering a grading service, I am willing to just live and let live.

However, as for the effects on the wider hobby, well I'm not too sure. It didn't seem so to begin with, but over time it became apparent that the people behind WATA were actively engaging in a scheme to turbocharge the videogame market in the image of comics etc. presumably so that they and a small group of fellow interested parties could make a lot of money. Their self-interested motivations have exaggerated and reinforced a wide divide between collectors interested in videogames primarily as investment and the rest of us. There was always this dichotomy in collecting and gaming before, but never this stark of a contrast.

The question, tho, is this bad for the hobby? My question is WHICH hobby... We have to face the fact that videogame collecting is no longer just one hobby. You've got the majority of us practicing one hobby, we who game and collect much as we always have, some more interested in carts, some more interested in CIB, some more interested in gaming, some more the collecting. And now we have this other hobby, the speculation fueled investment collecting.

I actually say that WATA has been good for BOTH these hobbies, by helping to definitively break the community into two. They get their money and their farts to smell as much as they like. We get rid of them, and can get back to a sense of genuine community built on our common passion. Videogames is big enough for all of us now, we don't need to even worry about that sealed/graded speculative side of the hobby anymore, now that we are no longer hosted by a company directly out to profit from that.

WATA, HE, GoCollect, Jeff, they had to BREAK the videogame hobby in order to motivate us to SAVE it. In my opinion, we should be grateful for that.

[killerkobra | 268]

WATA itself as a service is fine in my book, I guess. Competition for VGA can only bring out the best in both companies (in theory). 
 

The issue for me is the constant pumping of tires. The puffery pump and dump through Heritage Auctions which has resulted in the inflation of so many other games due to the trickle down effect. This has created the buzz words “1st Edition” and “hangtab” which has (momentarily I hope) taking over the current scene. Unfortunately setting a new bar for many games which will most likely never come down from. This has resulted  my myself changing gears in my collecting. 

So is WATA good for the Hobby ? Ultimately No, not for the collector. 

[Jono1874 | 144]

 My big problem with them is just how disingenuous they seem to be about everything they're doing. Not just WATA, but GoCollect and Heritage too.  They don't give a shit about video games and it' shows in spades.  The people they're importing into this hobby don't care about video games either other than how they can exploit the market.

They're made collecting harder for people that genuinely enjoy video games. 


 

[Bronty | 187]

We are all so busy protecting our egos in this thread but you know, collecting is collecting.    The guy that spends $10 on a loose barbie cart he will never play, the guy that spends $100 on a CIB, the guy that spends 5k on a sealed?   They vary only in degree.    Nobody NEEDS physical copies of any of this stuff.    The underlying collecting behavior is the same.     Some of the guys at the top end don't want to admit it because they don't want to feel like they are the same as the guys looking for dollar carts, and some of the guys at the bottom don't want to admit it because they don't want to perceive themselves as being at the bottom, but at the end of the day we are all much alike - collecting stuff we categorically do not need because of some connection, deep or shallow, to the source material but more importantly because of some common connection to the act of collecting.

At the end of the day, its all materialistic bullshit and absolutely no one needs ANY of it.    Now, if you want the hobby to grow and be more like the bigger hobbies you'll like what wata has done and if you want it to stay where it is you won't like what wata has done.   

But neither one's opinion nor one's wallet (fat or thin) makes them a saint.    We're all going around the same hamster wheel here, engaging in the same ridiculous behaviour.   (and at the same time, enjoying the same wonderful hobby.   But collecting, in general, is materialism.  And that's true whether you are spending 100 or 100k.)

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bronty

[Gloves | 11,761]

@Bronty How DARE you compare me to cart-only SCRUBS!

[Bronty | 187]

 

[B.A. | 1,139]

I don't love the influx of people buying up games purely as part of their investment portfolio, trying to get ahead of the 'next big thing'.  I don't begrudge anyone who wants to collect something because they enjoy it.  WATA grading games is providing a service, so I don't blame them.  Though they are part of the hype machine to an extent.