Californication | 1,477 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Cool. Resolved. Can we get a threadlock? Is that a thing on this shiny nee site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, Californication said: Cool. Resolved. Can we get a threadlock? Is that a thing on this shiny nee site. Nothing gets resolved on the internet bro. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I was being facetious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I'm not sure why we would lock this thread? Everyone is MOSTLY amicably discussing things. Personally I've received a great amount of enjoyment from reading this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,477 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 This is what caused the huge rift in the last site. Go Collect is the perfect place to talk about comic book collector drama. They have a whole website for it. Why bring it here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,008 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Fair enough. I guess I just feel like we are all adults here and should mostly be able to discuss anything as long as we can keep it friendly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmorgandrinker | 1,649 Administrator · Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Californication said: This is what caused the huge rift in the last site. Go Collect is the perfect place to talk about comic book collector drama. They have a whole website for it. Why bring it here? ....because it's a video game discussion site, and some people are interested in talking about it? If you don't particularly care for it, there's plenty of other topics here to read and post in. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarzombie | 924 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 All good here! No hard feelings on either side. I said what I wanted to say and other people have opposing views or mindsets. Its what makes the world goes around. When it gets out of hand with name calling, then yeah, thats wrong. I have more in my life to care about than to get all bent out of shape at some faceless person on the net. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmorgandrinker | 1,649 Administrator · Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, guitarzombie said: All good here! No hard feelings on either side. I said what I wanted to say and other people have opposing views or mindsets. Its what makes the world goes around. When it gets out of hand with name calling, then yeah, thats wrong. I have more in my life to care about than to get all bent out of shape at some faceless person on the net. Well, and there's nothing wrong with asking questions and debating either. Don't feel the need to stifle conversations because they might be on Wata/HA/what-have-you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplodedHamster | 404 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, MrMark0673 said: WATA isn't Deniz and Kenneth though, it's also the advisory board like you, Bronty, Jim Halperin, and Dain. It's HA and their ads that they ship back in WATA packages. It's GoCollect and the "Carolina Collection". It's the people hyping games that are both not uncommon nor previously desirable in even remotely the same capacity (like Spot games from the Omar days or TMNT now). I don't think anyone sees WATA as those two individuals, nor should they in my opinion. I think it would be incredibly unfair to use them as the names to point at when negativity is being projected at WATA while others get rich in increasingly suspect fashion, and those people are also officially associated with the company. I think there is a reason their names haven't been used frequently, but instead the company mentioned, as WATA flatly isn't Deniz and Kenneth. “Increasingly suspect fashion?” Because WATA, which has a business agreement with HA, advertises them and vice versa? Because people who are re-defining the market have different wants than you, and others, did? Because video games are now being pedigreed the same way collections in other collectibles are? That’s your evidence? Try and paint it as you not criticizing Deniz and Kenneth all you want, but you’re all but calling their business and their business partners scammers and frauds. There’s no other way to parse it, try as you might. I mean one of your main points of evidence was WATA advertising for HA...how else can that be read? Edited October 31, 2019 by ExplodedHamster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, MrMark0673 said: I'm genuinely confused... Your profile is literally displayed under "Who We Are", but you aren't them? Jone was previously listed and no longer is. I assumed advisors listed under "Who We Are" would be who "they" are, but you're telling me I'm wrong. I said the advisors are literal figureheads and that is it. They used them for clout at launch, they arent paid positions. No one ever told me anything but I was magically removed shortly after Qix kept whining about me posting VGA games. Yeah, no message, no nothing. They knew from the beginning I wasnt just going to be a Wata yes man and was still going to collect VGA, so whiners got their way. Oddly enough, I've done more advising after the fact it seems. My NA thread got them to realize that grading CIB without a manual was a bad idea, and I also called for IMP shown on the front of CIBs which has since been implemented too. End of day, I try to tag up with Deniz every now and then if I see something worth talking about. I do want Wata to succeed, but I also recognize their limitations. I also would enjoy a world pre Wata, but they are obviously here to stay and completion amongst grading companies is good. I just dont like all of the injected money that quickly came along with them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said: “Increasingly suspect fashion?” Because WATA, which has a business agreement with HA, advertises them and vice versa? Because people who are re-defining the market have different wants than you, and others, did? Because video games are now being pedigreed the same way collections in other collectibles are? That’s your evidence? Try and paint it as you not criticizing Deniz and Kenneth all you want, but you’re all but calling their business and their business partners scammers and frauds. There’s no other way to parse it, try as you might. I mean one of your main points of evidence was WATA advertising for HA...how else can that be read? I'm starting to 'increasingly suspect' you of being reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, jonebone said: I just dont like all of the injected money that quickly came along with them. Fair and honest comment. I get that POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themisfit138 | 523 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Bronty said: That's true to a point, as it is unfortunate when people get priced out, but don't forget that some of those people with big money aren't any less fans than you, and having a smaller wallet doesn't make you a 'truer' or 'better' fan. What you're really saying is it got harder to compete, which sucks, I get it, but this idea that if you can't afford something you're better than the guy that can? Is just the mirror version of the guy that thinks his fat wallet makes him better than you. Its the same type of thinking. I have (fan love, money) so I am better than the guy with no (fan love, money). Either train of thought is unsupportable. I will clarify my post a bit. It was not intended as a commentary on the rich vs. poor in collecting. I used the phrase “big money speculators” as a stand-in for investors. The phrase was used to try and differentiate between investors and hobbyist. The one only caring about the money to be gained from an item, while the other cares about the item itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, themisfit138 said: I will clarify my post a bit. It was not intended as a commentary on the rich vs. poor in collecting. I used the phrase “big money speculators” as a stand-in for investors. The phrase was used to try and differentiate between investors and hobbyist. The one only caring about the money to be gained from an item, while the other cares about the item itself. I get that. But I don't think experience supports that. Let me explain. Everyone here is somewhere on a continuum between pure hobbyist and pure speculator. The guys that are pure hobbyist are the guys spending zero dollars on their collection and playing roms. The guys that are pure speculator are just trading widgets with zero appreciation of the item itself. (It could be pork bellies or concentrated orange juice, its a purely financial play for them). There is almost no one at the extreme ends. Most people in the hobby don't get a powerpak and quit (ie just get the roms and play). And almost no one who wants a purely financial play would do this since you can't leverage games, you can't insure them or at least its difficult to do so, you can't buy at scale (call your broker and order 100 sealed MTPOs kind of thing), storage, fire and floods are issues, and there is just way too much 'hobby stuff' to learn to want to bother when you can invest in real estate or bonds or something. What does that imply? That the guys that are outbidding you... aren't that different than you. They have some love for the stuff too. It might be different than the way you appreciate it,and its true that your love for it might be 'deeper' but it also might not. All you really know for sure about those people is they like wheeling and dealing. Edited October 31, 2019 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,370 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 7:35 AM, Bronty said: I like the analogy too but I think its more like this: Tourist: I'd like to buy this beachfront property for 100k! that's crazy cheap compared to back home. Tourist B: I'd like to buy this beachfront property for 150k! that's crazy cheap compared to back home. At some point, when we get to tourist C, D, E or F - it won't look so cheap and it will flatten out. Nothing cures high prices like high prices. I can see this vantage point. The world of rich people doing whatever the hell they want, until the top of the crop runs dry on money, or they end up getting bored. However, I think the majority of opinions are seeing not so much the value of the games increasing, but more the rapid rate of price hikes and the self-promotion of "news articles" which ties in with HA, WATA, and random people with decent dollar. There is a certain level of disingenuous about the whole affair. Then you couple this with the owner of HA buying up a WATA graded item, to then sell WATA graded games, with the addition of a questionable background in business affairs. Altogether, there is a certain level of fishiness that is hard not to imagine, whether it's being realistic or purely delusional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplodedHamster | 404 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, GPX said: I can see this vantage point. The world of rich people doing whatever the hell they want, until the top of the crop runs dry on money, or they end up getting bored. However, I think the majority of opinions are seeing not so much the value of the games increasing, but more the rapid rate of price hikes and the self-promotion of "news articles" which ties in with HA, WATA, and random people with decent dollar. There is a certain level of disingenuous about the whole affair. Then you couple this with the owner of HA buying up a WATA graded item, to then sell WATA graded games, with the addition of a questionable background in business affairs. Altogether, there is a certain level of fishiness that is hard not to imagine, whether it's being realistic or purely delusional. The rapid rate of price hikes is nothing more than a rush of well off people competing and/or speculating, if it’s even fair to call it speculation at this point. The articles are a combination of sellers and the companies involved reaching out to promote everything, which is mutually beneficial. That’s normal and smart business practice. Rarity is also a somewhat relative term, because when you have a population of 10 sealed SMB, for example, sitting on Ebay, which has taken years to accrue, and all of a sudden 20 new serious buyers come in, availability changes incredibly quickly. This happens in pretty much every hobby as it makes the turn into “collectible.” These discussions similarly happen across hobby communities, most recently MtG and comics. And sneakers, as Jone pointed out. I’m not even quite sure what the theory is here. If the accusation is the auction houses are inflating prices, how are they making money? In that case they are paying way above market. The only way is to get legit buyers to come in and pay high prices. Otherwise, nobody is profiting, and the model will quickly collapse. Edited October 31, 2019 by ExplodedHamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) it’s really more emotion than theory IMO Edited October 31, 2019 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaryD | 237 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I think that Wata is the start of the crash that happened in Comic Books. Speculation has become rampant by individuals who know very little about the medium. Some folks may enjoy that slab on their shelf but it means very little to a gamer who likes to collect like myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegHead | 127 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Bronty said: Everyone here is somewhere on a continuum between pure hobbyist and pure speculator. The guys that are pure hobbyist are the guys spending zero dollars on their collection and playing roms. The guys that are pure speculator are just trading widgets with zero appreciation of the item itself. (It could be pork bellies or concentrated orange juice, its a purely financial play for them). I've seen you suggest this theory before that pure hobbyists are zero dollar rom players. I don't know where you get this idea, but I completely disagree. For one thing, whether people like it or not, roms are illegal. Are you suggesting that the truest test of purity is whether you're willing to break the law for your hobby? I don't think you are, but then your definition needs work. I say a pure hobbyist is the one who places the primary objective of their hobby as the sole motivator. There is zero thought toward a return of expenditure, i.e. no investment whatsoever. The money spent on the hobby is a means to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Depends what we are defining a hobbyist as. If we are defining it as a ‘gamer’ as many people around here seem to do then all you need are roms or similar things like NES classics. You’re not (only) a ‘gamer’ if you buy games you dislike for your set (Barbie, anticipation etc) or if you buy boxes etc. You’re a collector. If we are defining it as a collector that’s a bit trickier. The gist of what you are saying is good but it’s getting into murky waters quickly unless you never ever sell a single item and that describes very few people indeed. Anyways, that’s not really the point - you might be a little more from column A or a little more from column B, but you’re almost certainly not at either extreme. Edited November 1, 2019 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiRD | 137 Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Bronty said: Jone, In truth though, weren't we largely already there? I don't know about you but even before all this, I really wasn't too interested in buying a ton of new material at the prices prevalent even then. Everything I might get halfway excited by seemed to cost 5k+ and I just wasn't feeling it considering I first started buying some of those items for 200 a pop. 5k or 50k I wasn't really going to buy new stuff. The fun was kinda gone already in terms of sealed games. It used be you'd have to outbid bucky and he'd put a monster snipe in to avoid losing anything good and keep a stranglehold. Now you have to outbid a comicbro. What's changed, really, besides the number you bid for the honor of being underbidder? I mean... its even more exaggerated, now, sure, and maybe its spread to material you were interested in that you could get before. But to at least some degree, this had already happened. My tough about that is that sealed mint guys will go sealed less mint or cib mint guy... then these prices are going up, so cib mint guy will have to move to cib bad condition or cart only... my guess is that it’s false to think that only sealed stuff prices are or will be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I don’t think anyone said that, as we’ve seen some big cib prices on select material. It’s mostly on sealed though. Not exclusively you’re right . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplodedHamster | 404 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, TheBiRD said: My tough about that is that sealed mint guys will go sealed less mint or cib mint guy... then these prices are going up, so cib mint guy will have to move to cib bad condition or cart only... my guess is that it’s false to think that only sealed stuff prices are or will be affected. Sure, but we’re 15-20 years into this hobby, if people only care now about a first print Zelda and not before, for example, I’d think it’s actually BECAUSE of the WATA effect. In that case, it’s not like people were actually harmed; in fact, WATA would have piqued their curiosity and contributed to their excitement about games. The other rare items have been going up forever anyway. Edited November 1, 2019 by ExplodedHamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiRD | 137 Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said: Sure, but we’re 15-20 years into this hobby, if people only care now about a first print Zelda and not before, for example, I’d think it’s actually BECAUSE of the WATA effect. In that case, it’s not like people were actually harmed; in fact, WATA would have piqued their curiosity and contributed to their excitement about games. The other rare items have been going up forever anyway. I mostly agree.. except for "people only care about first print". Not only first print goes up.. we had a 11000$ not first print/not gold Punch out today... couple of days ago, I was watching a mint FF2.. was ready to put 300$ on it.. ends for over 500$. I don’t track sealed stuff, what I hear is that prices go up on most.. I track cib mint snes and prices go up fast these day.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now