ThePhleo | 2,184 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, Californication said: These real estate analogy's just make me think gentrification. Meanwhile, I want to know where there's nice beachfront property for $100k - $150k 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peg | 370 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Honestly unless you were big into sealed games I think WATA has had basically zero influence on anything. I give zero fucks about sealed anything and honestly would never even have noticed WATA existed other than seeing it mentioned on forums. Sure I guess SMB 1 black box and other "first print" games are now ridiculously hyped by people from outside the hobby? Sell yours while the marks are still biting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snk2d4ever | 96 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 hour ago, ThePhleo said: Meanwhile, I want to know where there's nice beachfront property for $100k - $150k Depends on what "nice" means, but there's a bunch around Lake Michigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhleo | 2,184 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I don’t actually think I left my opinion on this topic yet on NA or here so let me throw in my 2 cents. I was always a secretive sealed collector. A few years ago I sold my sealed collection to a local collector who will remain nameless. I was literally just beginning to dip my toes back in the water as soon as Wata was announced and after the $100k Mario sale I knew my “career” was over. Im not bitter about it, but I definitely got priced out. I managed to pick up a few pieces in that short time span...and I plan on holding onto them JUST in case things get into my price again. But if things go the other way, I’m selling the few things I have and will go strictly into CIB mode. Wata definitely effected my collecting style, for the worst. But I think ultimately they’re a force for good as long as things are on the up and up with their ethics. They aren’t 2-bit conmen, the guys running it are highly respected members of the community we all “grew up” in. Deniz, and Kenneth are great dudes. I can say literally nothing wrong about them. The other guys they surround themselves with are also cool guys to me, sure they’re making bank right now but I can’t blame them for making money when the pickings are easy. Heritage...for all it’s shady dealings in the past, I think ultimately still lends the hobby more legitimacy. That being said, I don’t need heritage to validate my hobby to myself. I couldn’t care less if it was just me and @Gloves buying grey NES squares. A huge middle finger to CLink though...I had to order a new credit card because of their shitty last millennium security. GoCollect....not sure what they’re doing but for people with money they’re Reaaaaally dragging their feet. I’ve been trying for years to get a project going and I just don’t have the time or money to do it. But GoCollect? Cmon. Final Word: Everything is still foggy from the meteor crashing into our hobby. When the dust settles, I think we’ll all be in a better position. Sealed collectors, CIB, Loose, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinusWorlds | 193 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 <— <Reads today’s Wata email. Slowly backs out of the thread> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularGuyGamer | 2,012 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 hours ago, MinusWorlds said: <— <Reads today’s Wata email. Slowly backs out of the thread> I need the context man. I got digital blue balls from reading this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaglePuss | 80 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, RegularGuyGamer said: I need the context man. I got digital blue balls from reading this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularGuyGamer | 2,012 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, BeaglePuss said: Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zi | 144 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) wata, et all, created hobby based on condition, not on video games Edited October 31, 2019 by zi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplodedHamster | 404 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 10/28/2019 at 1:54 PM, MrMark0673 said: Very few people have taken issue with the new collectors spending more money on things. The complaints are the obvious conflicts of interest and deceitful tactics the company has used in tandem with all of the parties I have named. No one cares about someone spending money on a game. Over inflated sales where buyer/seller/grader/auction house are literally all one in the same is a load of dog shit and people don't have to walk on eggshells pointing out the obvious over here. Again, when Jim Halperin can be a WATA advisor, a founder of Heritage Auctions, and part buyer of the $100k sale, people take notice. That's fucked up and on the surface absolutely reads like a marketing ploy that boosts the stock of: - Heritage Auctions - WATA - Owners of early BB games How do you take it a step further? Add puff pieces that make it sound like this isn't only normal, but this is just the beginning! "It's probably the wrong move, to sell, long term" is the perfect quote to stir up ignorant money from deep pocketed comic collectors. Sure, it's waaaaaay more than historical data has ever shown this game or group of games to sell for, but it's the wrong move long term! Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuy!!! Just flip things with a conscience. These games are clearly valuable, the deceit is obvious and deplorable. This isn't the only facet of the hobby that's done something similar, it's just the most obvious. I had an absolutely incredible collection of prototypes. Imagine if I traded one for a high ticket item to a friend, then used the value of that item to now claim that this proto (and along with it, all my others) are worth mid five-figures? Imagine if I made sure a bunch of media outlets picked up the story, and talked about my "$XX,XXX prototype changes hands!". What if I went a step further and made a documentary on protos and how crazy valuable they were and pumped it through the community? With such a niche like protos, I bet I could have easily convinced the masses that my $2-500 protos were worth tens of thousands. But... I just sold them instead. There’s nothing deceitful about this man, it’s simple supply and demand. Halpern and especially WATA aren’t forcing people to pay what they are for these games. Halpern being on the board is out in the open and not abnormal or shady at all from a business perspective, either. The point is to work together and model something that benefits both businesses. In the end, they’ve managed to market themselves into the high-end collectibles community, which has an ungodly amount of money being thrown around. If you look at the money thrown around in coins, stamps, comics, etc., then it’s pretty easy to accept a hard to find cult classic title like Killer Tomatoes is a four-figure game. The market has been defined within a certain limit for so long that people simply cannot seem to wrap their heads around it changing so rapidly. As I’ve been saying since January, forget the past 10-20 years and place video games in the context of true “collectibles” now. The values will make more sense, and appear low compare to others, if anything. Video games lag behind Magic the Gathering at this point, for instance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMark0673 | 197 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Nope. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said: There’s nothing deceitful about this man, it’s simple supply and demand. Halpern and especially WATA aren’t forcing people to pay what they are for these games. Halpern being on the board is out in the open and not abnormal or shady at all from a business perspective, either. The point is to work together and model something that benefits both businesses. In the end, they’ve managed to market themselves into the high-end collectibles community, which has an ungodly amount of money being thrown around. If you look at the money thrown around in coins, stamps, comics, etc., then it’s pretty easy to accept a hard to find cult classic title like Killer Tomatoes is a four-figure game. The market has been defined within a certain limit for so long that people simply cannot seem to wrap their heads around it changing so rapidly. As I’ve been saying since January, forget the past 10-20 years and place video games in the context of true “collectibles” now. The values will make more sense, and appear low compare to others, if anything. Video games lag behind Magic the Gathering at this point, for instance... AGree with almost everything you said. Magic is a good comparison point because the era, rarity of the 'rare' early cards, prices involved on those early cards, it all kinda lines up in about the same place as where games are now. We can argue if one is ahead or behind and you're probably right that games are behind but the point is, there are a lot of similarities there. Circulation on new comics cratered around 92/93. Magic started in 93 - its like there was a pretty clean break in kids at the time dropping reading and picking up cards. And games were popular throughout, but the early 90s was a really important time there too. Killer tomatoes I can't get behind at four figures though. If its a cult classic (maybe it is) then that's news to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy82 | 768 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I really don't know if wata is good for the hobby or not, but it clearly caused the downfall of NA. As far as I'm concerned, Dain performed a classic pump and dump. Promoting all that nonsense, having all his shit graded by his buddies and then completely selling out! The website included! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, Bronty said: AGree with almost everything you said. Magic is a good comparison point because the era, rarity of the 'rare' early cards, prices involved on those early cards, it all kinda lines up in about the same place as where games are now. We can argue if one is ahead or behind and you're probably right that games are behind but the point is, there are a lot of similarities there. Circulation on new comics cratered around 92/93. Magic started in 93 - its like there was a pretty clean break in kids at the time dropping reading and picking up cards. And games were popular throughout, but the early 90s was a really important time there too. Killer tomatoes I can't get behind at four figures though. If its a cult classic (maybe it is) then that's news to me. Looking back ,it also seems like Magic lines up with the massive oversaturation of baseball cards and elementary/middle school aged kids of the 80's baseball card era (where the oversaturation really started, from what I understand) coming of age and being excited to buy cards that ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING (also tons of kids who only bought $0.25/pack baseball cards in the 80's because their friends were doing it, and knew nothing about the game or players, and finally had collectible cards that were thematically interesting!) Though I will say that my serious comic-buying friends of that era (was in middle school when MTG came out) were also HEAVY into MTG (and incidentally were also the people with complete sets of baseball cards in late-elementary school). They just loved to buy "collectible" stuff, in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, arch_8ngel said: Looking back ,it also seems like Magic lines up with the massive oversaturation of baseball cards and elementary/middle school aged kids of the 80's baseball card era (where the oversaturation really started, from what I understand) coming of age and being excited to buy cards that ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING (also tons of kids who only bought $0.25/pack baseball cards in the 80's because their friends were doing it, and knew nothing about the game or players, and finally had collectible cards that were thematically interesting!) Though I will say that my serious comic-buying friends of that era (was in middle school when MTG came out) were also HEAVY into MTG (and incidentally were also the people with complete sets of baseball cards in late-elementary school). They just loved to buy "collectible" stuff, in general. yep I just added cards in to what I said; agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bronty said: yep I just added cards in to what I said; agree Yeah, the "funny thing", from my recollection, was that GOOD QUALITY polypropylene card sheets COST MORE THAN THE CHEAP BASEBALL CARDS! But we all wanted notebooks full of them. So by the time we'd made that kind of investment, it just seemed natural to switch over to MtG and refill those notebooks with something WAY more fun to look at! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: Though I will say that my serious comic-buying friends of that era not sure how you define or that what they were buying, but almost everyone stopping buy new comics at that time. The vintage scene continued on, weakened but still going. The scene for brand new stuff just literally cratered. Much like sportscards they were being way overproduced and it imploded. And you, know, its over 25 years later now. That chicken eventually comes home to roost because eventually you don't have buyers that grew up with the material. Comic guys are well aware of it too - they know there's a demographic shift happening or to happen in the not that distant future to hobbies with younger engagement. That doesn't mean action 1 will *ever* be cheap, the special stuff marches on with increase after increase, but the rank and file items get harder and harder to sell as the population ages out. We are seeing that already, really. Edited October 31, 2019 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 16 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: Yeah, the "funny thing", from my recollection, was that GOOD QUALITY polypropylene card sheets COST MORE THAN THE CHEAP BASEBALL CARDS! But we all wanted notebooks full of them. So by the time we'd made that kind of investment, it just seemed natural to switch over to MtG and refill those notebooks with something WAY more fun to look at! Have you ever pulled out some of those sheets today? They are hard as a rock now some of them hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaglePuss | 80 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I think one massive improvement seen here at VGS over NA is the ability to like post. When the constant pumping, and pumping, and pumping was taking place over at NA, it was hard to counter without it coming off as an attack. It’s different here though. Now, when someone brings up some objective criticism of WATA, HA, GC, etc, the community responds by giving visible feedback. There’s no need for mudslinging now, and the collective majority can see their opinion voiced by giving a simple “thumbs up” of sorts. You’re going to see some of the aggressive pro-HA rhetoric here still, but you’ll notice a general lack of approval (outside of the outspoken minority) in the visible feedback. You’ve already seen that in this very thread. I think it’s incredibly important to focus on the positive with this new site, but I’m extremely grateful that the feedback system has been implemented to show where others stand. I’m also grateful that NA and GC still exist. It gives some of the more aggressive and outspoken supporters a great place to discuss and promote HA and the like without much, if any, pushback. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,307 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 51 minutes ago, BriGuy82 said: I really don't know if wata is good for the hobby or not, but it clearly caused the downfall of NA. As far as I'm concerned, Dain performed a classic pump and dump. Promoting all that nonsense, having all his shit graded by his buddies and then completely selling out! The website included! To be fair, Dain didn't do that. He only collected VGA. GoCollect bought his collection, then crossed it all over to Wata, or subbed a bunch of ungraded items himself. GC / Wata came up with the Carolina Collection tagline, not Dain. Though, I do suspect he knew NA was a ticking timebomb with a server decommission date of 10/31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 41 minutes ago, Bronty said: not sure how you define or that what they were buying, but almost everyone stopping buy new comics at that time. The vintage scene continued on, weakened but still going. The scene for brand new stuff just literally cratered. Much like sportscards they were being way overproduced and it imploded. And you, know, its over 25 years later now. That chicken eventually comes home to roost because eventually you don't have buyers that grew up with the material. Comic guys are well aware of it too - they know there's a demographic shift happening or to happen in the not that distant future to hobbies with younger engagement. That doesn't mean action 1 will *ever* be cheap, the special stuff marches on with increase after increase, but the rank and file items get harder and harder to sell as the population ages out. We are seeing that already, really. I'm talking probably '90-'94 timeframe. I had a couple of friends with boxes and boxes of comics that were buying every issue for certain series. I even picked up the occasional issue in that time period (though I wasn't a collector, and just bought odds and ends with neat covers -- probably a handful of X-Force and Savage Dragons) I remember Issue #1 of Cable being a HUGE deal for kids my age, and it seemed to touch off a wave of buying at least in my age group (late elementary / early middle school) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 29 minutes ago, Bronty said: Have you ever pulled out some of those sheets today? They are hard as a rock now some of them hehe The "cheap" sheets were pretty stiff, even back in the day. Polypropylene sheets (the GOOD stuff) should still be pretty soft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty | 187 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: I'm talking probably '90-'94 timeframe. I had a couple of friends with boxes and boxes of comics that were buying every issue for certain series. I even picked up the occasional issue in that time period (though I wasn't a collector, and just bought odds and ends with neat covers -- probably a handful of X-Force and Savage Dragons) I remember Issue #1 of Cable being a HUGE deal for kids my age, and it seemed to touch off a wave of buying at least in my age group (late elementary / early middle school) OK, so they were buying new stuff not vintage. Yeah that stuff dove off a cliff circa 93. Maybe your friends lasted til 94. I remember going to conventions around 1990 packed in like sardines; couldn't move - and going to conventions in 95 and it being wide open spaces....... and that was the vintage scene, which was healthier than the new scene. Edited October 31, 2019 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy82 | 768 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, jonebone said: To be fair, Dain didn't do that. He only collected VGA. GoCollect bought his collection, then crossed it all over to Wata, or subbed a bunch of ungraded items himself. GC / Wata came up with the Carolina Collection tagline, not Dain. Though, I do suspect he knew NA was a ticking timebomb with a server decommission date of 10/31. I find it very hard to believe that none of those games that were being promoted at those gaming conventions belonged to Dain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bronty said: OK, so they were buying new stuff not vintage. Yeah that stuff dove off a cliff circa 93. Maybe your friends lasted til 94. I remember going to conventions around 1990 packed in like sardines; couldn't move - and going to conventions in 95 and it being wide open spaces....... and that was the vintage scene, which was healthier than the new scene. Could be. I definitely remember comic-series collectible cards being a thing for awhile then, too. (one of my friends had the complete set of X-Men cards, and I remember those packs being EXPENSIVE ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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