The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[jonebone | 1,307]

52 minutes ago, twiztor said:

not to get too preachy here, but you admitted that your vaccine is out of date. Plus the virus has mutated. With the wide spread of the Omicron variant (which developed AFTER your vaccine was created), it's likely that's what you caught.

vaccines do help. but they are not some miracle cure or "get out of sick free" card.

But that's exactly the point, viruses mutate faster than vaccines, hence why the Flu shot has limited effectiveness.  I also know people first hand who have gotten it with boosters.

Again, the point is that the vaccine simply reduces your risk posture and does not prevent it at all. And again, my unvaccined wife took it better than I have thus far.  So many variables here and the vaccine is not as good as the Government leads you to believe. Mandates make zero sense if you can still catch it and spread it anyway!  Someone is mandated to get it and then contagious 48 hours before symptoms onset, perfect for spreading it like wildfire.

The mandate is about protecting others, which it isn't as effective as believed.  We'll be on a new variant by summer likely.

Edited January 19, 2022 by jonebone

[Californication | 1,477]

4 minutes ago, jonebone said:

But that's exactly the point, viruses mutate faster than vaccines, hence why the Flu shot has limited effectiveness.  I also know people first hand who have gotten it with boosters.

Again, the point is that the vaccine simply reduces your risk posture and does not prevent it at all. And again, my unvaccined wife took it better than I have thus far.  So many variables here and the vaccine is not as good as the Government leads you to believe. Mandates make zero sense if you can still catch it and spread it anyway!  Someone is mandated to get it and thurs before symptoms onset, perfect for spreading it like wildfire.

The mandate is about protecting others, which it isn't as effective as believed.  We'll be on a new variant by summer likel

Risk posture? That's a pretty big euphemism for death.

You and yours had a good outcome, I'm happy for you, fingers crossed for no long covid. 

We can clearly see the difference in outcomes on a material scale by looking at the disproportionate deaths across red states.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

17 minutes ago, jonebone said:

But that's exactly the point, viruses mutate faster than vaccines, hence why the Flu shot has limited effectiveness.  I also know people first hand who have gotten it with boosters.

The primary reason the flu shot has limited effectiveness is due to the fact that there are multiple strains spreading every year, and the shot is good for just one of them--the best guess of scientists and other experts prior to the season starting as to which strain will become the dominant one.  If someone gets their flu shot and then gets the flu, 99% of the time (or better), they got a strain that the shot wasn't created for.

We're in kind of a similar situation with covid right now, as the vaccines were developed based on the pre-Delta strains, although they have been effective against all strains when one's immunity is at its strongest.  Hence the call for folks getting boosters, to make sure that their immune systems stay at the top of their game in recognizing and being able to combat this garbage.

Face of the matter is, you run into "breakthrough" cases of illness with pretty much every vaccine for every illness.  The big difference comes from the other diseases folks are most commonly vaccinated for not mutating quickly or constantly the way things like the flu, common cold, covid, etc., do, so while one persion in 100K or 1M might get a case of the measeles or mumps or such despite being vaccinated, you don't see huge outbreaks everywhere as it was down to that person's genetics, level of health, etc., that they got it versus the illness having figured out a way around the vaccine.

You post really sounds like me from 15-20 years ago when I rolled my eyes at the flu shot for years due to not understanding that having gotten a flu after having my first flu shot didn't mean that I wasn't protected from the strain that I was vaccinated against.  It wasn't until some years later that a doctor actually walked me through how it all worked (long before that sort of thing was part of the advertisements) that I understood and started getting my yearly dose again.  Nothing is 100% foolproof, not even the vaccines that most people have never had doubts about, so while I understand the mental throwing up of hands at things given your outcome, I urge you to think critically and not emotionally about this, especially after reading through and understanding the science behind it all.  Letting it just "go" for everybody means more, and faster mutations, good or bad, not less.

[jonebone | 1,307]

Don't get me wrong, if you don't want to die than the vaccine is your best solution.

That is entirely different from let's get the entire population vaccinated so covid is no longer a thing.  

Point 2 is how it's been spun all along but that narrative needs to change to be vaccinated / get boosted every 6 months if you want to have the best chance of avoiding it entirely.  Otherwise it's about reducing your symptoms... even though I'm the only vaccinated person and have had it the "worst", which is relatively mild thankfully.  No sleep for 2 nights sucks though, feel more drained than anything else.

[Californication | 1,477]

17 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Don't get me wrong, if you don't want to die than the vaccine is your best solution.

That is entirely different from let's get the entire population vaccinated so covid is no longer a thing.  

Point 2 is how it's been spun all along but that narrative needs to change to be vaccinated / get boosted every 6 months if you want to have the best chance of avoiding it entirely.  Otherwise it's about reducing your symptoms... even though I'm the only vaccinated person and have had it the "worst", which is relatively mild thankfully.  No sleep for 2 nights sucks though, feel more drained than anything else.

The fact that you were vaccinated at one point isn't the only determinant of the magnitude of your reaction.

You could have been the primary person infected and gotten the largest viral load and then only mildly transferred to your family.

And again, the outcry should have been to have the world vaccinated so we reduce vaccine resistant variants.

 

[jonebone | 1,307]

48 minutes ago, Californication said:

The fact that you were vaccinated at one point isn't the only determinant of the magnitude of your reaction.

You could have been the primary person infected and gotten the largest viral load and then only mildly transferred to your family.

And again, the outcry should have been to have the world vaccinated so we reduce vaccine resistant variants.

 

I was the last person in the house to get it, our 7 year old brought it back from school I assume.  I was positive 4 days later. Nonetheless I'm just sharing my experience for people to reach their own conclusions.

[Californication | 1,477]

11 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I was the last person in the house to get it, our 7 year old brought it back from school I assume.  I was positive 4 days later. Nonetheless I'm just sharing my experience for people to reach their own conclusions.

For sure. But again vaccine status isn't the only determinant - health, age, etc. 

I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that potential health outcomes are worse after vaccination.

I am recovering from covid at home myself and it was not fun unless you enjoy sneezing so hard you almost shit yourself. Really glad I had Prednisone at home because it got rid of all of the swelling in my throat fairly quickly.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Californication

[Tulpa | 3,505]

4 hours ago, jonebone said:

So many variables here and the vaccine is not as good as the Government leads you to believe.

Keep in mind that a lot of that rhetoric was about Delta, and the vaccine was very effective (moreso with boosters) on that variant.

Omicron is new, and I think they've been decent about getting out the message that "Yo, this ain't Delta, Omicron can break through even with the booster, but it'll still give you some protection."

There is SOME effectiveness with the vaccine against Omicron, and Omicron isn't as likely to drop you as Delta (which is still out there, BTW.) There's still value to getting everyone vaccinated.

Yes, the communication could be better, but honestly, it's miles better than the "ignore it and it'll go away" approach.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Tulpa

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

Idk if this is more of that blasted government propaganda or if it's actual data

Guess I should ask Facebook to get some real expert insight. 

[Link | 2,713]

3 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Idk if this is more of that blasted government propaganda or if it's actual data

Guess I should ask Facebook to get some real expert insight. 

We all need to do our own research so we can reach our own conclusions. Don't believe every thing you read. There's really no point in just believing what somebody tells you. You have to find somebody else who tells you something different, that way you can decide. 

[avatar! | 1,812]

31 minutes ago, Link said:

We all need to do our own research so we can reach our own conclusions. Don't believe every thing you read. There's really no point in just believing what somebody tells you. You have to find somebody else who tells you something different, that way you can decide. 

I would add that you should listen to doctors, scientists, and people that actually know about infectious diseases!

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/6-things-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-masks

Masks are vital to preventing spread

Cover your nose and mouth

Medicine changes as we know more

[Link | 2,713]

Sarcasm is not your strong suit

8 minutes ago, avatar! said:

I would add that you should listen to doctors, scientists, and people that actually know about infectious diseases!

No, no, no. Only listen to people you know. Didn't you ever hear about "Stranger Danger"?

Also, only listen to them if it supports what you already think. Your belief system myst be strong. Just like your natural immune system. 

[avatar! | 1,812]

3 minutes ago, Link said:

Sarcasm is not your strong suit

Hey, that's cold... I love sarcasm! I just don't necessarily follow all the messages on the threads

[Link | 2,713]

oh god dammit. I forgot to remove my serious remark before my joke response. That kind of ruins it. Oh well

[FireHazard51 | 2,043]

16 hours ago, Link said:

We all need to do our own research so we can reach our own conclusions. Don't believe every thing you read. There's really no point in just believing what somebody tells you. You have to find somebody else who tells you something different, that way you can decide. 

I chose to laugh (this is sarcasm) versus cry (stupidity will be the downfall of humanity).  But I've seen videos of people seriously saying stuff very similar to this.  As if someone who has only a high school diploma that graduated before the internet was even a thing would know how to do legit medical research and know what is bullshit "research".  People need to stop finding "doctors" and "scientist" that agree with their minority opinion.  Because typically when you really look into those people you find out they are not a good standing member of their field.  Or whats way more common, they don't have expertise in what their saying.  It would be like me saying, 5G towers put out a ton of energy that is harmful to the body and you can trust me because I'm licensed professional engineer.  Am I a telecoms engineer, No.  Electrical engineering, no.  I'm a fucking civil engineer that deals with government red tape and have ZERO expertise in the communication field.  But you can quote me as an engineer/scientist who agrees that 5G cell towers are harmful to humans.  

Spoiler

If you don't think engineers are scientist then you can fuck off.  You either don't understand what a scientist does or an engineer.....or BOTH.  It's like telling an Optometrist that they are not a "real" doctor.  

Doctors are like engineers, we have specialist for niche fields and broad generalist.  You wouldn't ask a pavement engineer for their take on the latest jet engine the same way you wouldn't ask a plastic surgeon on how well recently develop vaccine works.  And these doctors that are making headlines with conflicting information with COVID need to stay in their fucking lanes!!!  If you look into these doctors you'll often find the have other motives for making such statements.  Typically it's to broaden their name/brand because they WANT to have a big media footprint to sell books/merch, or to maybe come paid correspondent for shows.  Or the worst....aiming for a political appointment or run for an elected position.  Basically they are telling certain people what they want to hear so that the doctor can get political power or make more money.  

[FireHazard51 | 2,043]

For a sec I thought I posted my response in the Werewolf thread   

[Link | 2,713]

4 minutes ago, FireHazard51 said:

people seriously saying stuff very similar to this

Oh, I know. 

4 minutes ago, FireHazard51 said:

For a sec I thought I posted my response in the Werewolf thread   

I think you should. It would almost make more sense than some of what happened yesterday. 

[Link | 2,713]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hanka-horka-dies-covid-19-deliberately-catch/

She didn't want to get vaccinated, so she deliberately exposed herself to infected family members so she could get get sick and get a recovery pass. She did not recover.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Link

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Hermain Cain awards, here we come!

[Tulpa | 3,505]

Good news!

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/booster-shots-effective-severe-illness-omicron-rcna13038

A booster dose of the Covid-19 vaccine significantly reduces a person's odds of hospitalization from the omicron variant, new research released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention finds.

The three new studies from the agency are among the first to look at the vaccines' impact against omicron in the United States, which now accounts for more than 99 percent of new cases in the country.

The research underscores the importance of booster shots to protect against severe illness from the rapidly spreading variant, which has overwhelmed hospitals.

"You don't want to be that one person that has a bad outcome, that requires hospitalization, when there's no hospital bed for you," said Syra Madad, an infectious disease epidemiologist at the Harvard Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs.

The new studies find that a booster shot can provide significant protection against needing emergency medical care or hospitalization because of Covid-19.

[avatar! | 1,812]

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

8 hours ago, FireHazard51 said:

I chose to laugh (this is sarcasm) versus cry (stupidity will be the downfall of humanity).  But I've seen videos of people seriously saying stuff very similar to this.  As if someone who has only a high school diploma that graduated before the internet was even a thing would know how to do legit medical research and know what is bullshit "research".  People need to stop finding "doctors" and "scientist" that agree with their minority opinion.  Because typically when you really look into those people you find out they are not a good standing member of their field.  Or whats way more common, they don't have expertise in what their saying.  It would be like me saying, 5G towers put out a ton of energy that is harmful to the body and you can trust me because I'm licensed professional engineer.  Am I a telecoms engineer, No.  Electrical engineering, no.  I'm a fucking civil engineer that deals with government red tape and have ZERO expertise in the communication field.  But you can quote me as an engineer/scientist who agrees that 5G cell towers are harmful to humans.  

  Reveal hidden contents

If you don't think engineers are scientist then you can fuck off.  You either don't understand what a scientist does or an engineer.....or BOTH.  It's like telling an Optometrist that they are not a "real" doctor.  

Doctors are like engineers, we have specialist for niche fields and broad generalist.  You wouldn't ask a pavement engineer for their take on the latest jet engine the same way you wouldn't ask a plastic surgeon on how well recently develop vaccine works.  And these doctors that are making headlines with conflicting information with COVID need to stay in their fucking lanes!!!  If you look into these doctors you'll often find the have other motives for making such statements.  Typically it's to broaden their name/brand because they WANT to have a big media footprint to sell books/merch, or to maybe come paid correspondent for shows.  Or the worst....aiming for a political appointment or run for an elected position.  Basically they are telling certain people what they want to hear so that the doctor can get political power or make more money.  

I agree with your sentiment, but not your argument. Dr might have personal gain from getting headlines, but that's not what you need to look at. What is needed to be examined in the data and the collection methods of the data. 

What I posted above was data from NYC collected by NYC hospitals. The data showed that the symptomatic infection was 8x higher in those who were unvaccinated.  NYC has a vaccination rate of over 50% so the vaccines therefore must be responsible for some level of warding off symptomatic infection in COVID cases, even if it is small. 

That problem isn't that we don't know how to research Dr and their motives. It's that we can't look at a set of data and draw conclusions and asks critical questions of collection methods.  If a person can't look at a study, how it was conducted and understand the method, then that is the problem.

We have a society that can't draw inferences based on data. For my own self interest as a math teacher students should be required there math courses in secondary school. 2 years of algebra and 1 of statistics.

Edited January 22, 2022 by RegularGuyGamer

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

So, after a scare at my son's school (it was thought that a kid in my son's grade had been pulled out of class for testing positive--turns out it was the grade below him), we made plans to get him vaccinated right after school.  We'd been meaning to do it for at least a couple of weeks, but wanted to make sure it was on a Friday (in order to allow him time to recover should he have any/all of the standard side effects), and kept having things come up which got in the way or caused us to temporarily forget.  Since he was going in for his, I went ahead and made sure I could get my booster as well.

Fun fact, Walmart's online appointment system, the only way possible for you to get an appointment with their pharmacies, has apparently been down and/or crashing for at least the last day.  The wife and I got ours at our local Walmart primarily due to the fact that they were virtually the first location in the area to get the Moderna vaccine and keep it in stock, as well as open availability beyond the initial wave of super elderly and first responders.  I was initially confused when I got a totally blank screen whenever I'd click the link in Firefox to schedule an appointment, so I disabled my ad blockers.  Then cleared cache and cookies.  Then rebooted.  Then tried Chrome, repeating the same steps.  Then tried it on my phone.  Finally, I tried calling them, only to find out that if you followed the IVR about COVID vaccines, it would trap you in a loop telling you to go to the website to set up an appointment, then hang up on you if you tried other options to get to a real person.

So, a quick Google search for a number direct to the pharmacy later, and I was back on the phone.  And meeting the same IVR, strangely enough.  That time, I pretended like I had other business and, lo and behold, the IVR actually deigned to give me the option to speak to a real live person.  The lady who answered was wonderful, confirming for me that they had both the pediatric Pfizer and booster Moderna doses in stock, letting me know (before I even asked) what times were busy and not for them, and then apologizing that she didn't have access to the system that would allow her to make an appointment for me, but told me that the time I'd asked about coming in together would be just fine and that she would keep an eye out for us.

After getting to Walmart, I took my son's hand and split off from my wife and daughter to get down to business.  My son was nervous, but also chomping at the bit somewhat, as he kept asking why we didn't get into the "shorter" line, walking up behind the person who was already at the window versus standing in the "in" line like everyone else.  A brief explanation later, and we were up at the window ourselves, letting the woman waiting there that we were there for vaccines.  "Oh, you must be the ones I talked to earlier; I like your masks!"  Some friendly chitchat, handing over of some personal documentation, and a couple of forms later, and we were sitting to the side of the pharmacy, awaiting our fate.  The door opened, and a different woman beckoned us into the tiny "health" room attached to the pharmacy proper to administer our shots.

Knowing that my son was nervous about getting any shot, I took off my coat as we entered, and rolled up my sleeve as I sat down so I could go first and show him there wasn't anything to be afraid of.  I told him he probably shouldn't watch it happen, but that the folks there were so good that he would barely feel anything, and only for a moment or two.  The pharmacist took that moment to comfort him as well, letting him know that even though it was her saying it, she'd been told that she was very good at it and would make sure to take extra care with him.  She then proceeded to explain, step by step, what she was doing, injected my dose, safely disposed of the needle, then rolled my bandaid into place.  I helped my son get his coat off, helped him into the chair, then advised him to just relax as much as he could, but to specifically not clench up when the shot came, as that would hurt far more than than the injection.  Again, the phrmacist described step by step what she was doing, even going so far as to explain what the alcohol swab was for, before telling my son specifically where to look so he couldn't have to see what was going on, then sticking and injecting him before he realized it had happened, with realization really only dawning on his face as she was rolling the bandaid down over the site.

We wandered the store for the mandatory 15 minutes afterward, allowing both kids to look on through the toy and Valentine's day aisles, then checked out with some groceries, got home, and proceeded back to normal domestic life.  I had a cold going into this shot (and yes, just a cold, my sinuses being drippy and off-and-on again stuffy is my only symptom), unlike the other two times I received the shot, so I was actually a little tired by the time we got home.  The wife asked me to put up the dishes after I'd dropped some things off into the kitchen and tried to make it back to the living room to sit down and rest, which just made me more tired, and gave me a bit of an ache to my back.  After getting to sit down and relax, however, I've had no more real complaints, beyond being a little more tired than I would normally be in the afternoon.  I'm half convinced that my son got a cappuccino injection versus a vaccine the way he ran around and immediately started roughhousing with his sister after we got hom, and for the next couple of hours afterward.

Dinner went normally, with no loss of appetite, although it wasn't as flavorful as it might have otherwise been, due to my sinuses choosing that particular window to clamp down near completely, leaving me with much more vague ideas of what I was tasting.  Don't worry, though, they relaxed enough so that by dessert I had enough smell reactivated by one clear nostril to be able to fully taste the ice cream everyone was having.  At about 5 hours now beyond the shot, the only real symptom I've had, and one I've only just now noticed, is a little soreness in the upper part of my arm that took the shot, just forward of the ball joint.  Unlike the first two shots, where the injection site itself was tender, poking my arm itself reveals no soreness or other issues, but rotating my arm forward and back gives a slight feeling of "tightness" in that area, and lifting it up horizontally gives me a slight ache.  Looking at the bandaid, it appears that this pharmacist gave me the injection an inch or two above where the others had been placed, much closer to the joint, although still within the muscle.

I'll update here if anything changes, but at present, it seems like I'm probably going to get a fairly peaceful night's sleep, and my son has retired to his room with his tablet for some quiet time, with no complaints heard since, so fingers crossed he escapes with just a little soreness from his first experience.  We go back in 3 weeks to get him his second dose, so if I don't update before then, I'll be sure to do so then so that everyone has at least some anecdotal idea of what the vaccine is like in younger kids (5-12).

[doner24 | 1,196]

Finally got my booster on Wednesday and man did it kick my ass. 24 hours of crazy chills and aches. Kept me up all night shaking, no matter how many blankets or clothes I put on. Even got me to take a pill (advil) for the first time in years. I have never had a reaction like this to any shot, much less the first 2 Pfizer shots I had. Was about 100x worse than when I actually got Covid in late 2020. 

[jonebone | 1,307]

8 hours ago, doner24 said:

Finally got my booster on Wednesday and man did it kick my ass. 24 hours of crazy chills and aches. Kept me up all night shaking, no matter how many blankets or clothes I put on. Even got me to take a pill (advil) for the first time in years. I have never had a reaction like this to any shot, much less the first 2 Pfizer shots I had. Was about 100x worse than when I actually got Covid in late 2020. 

That's about the actual description of having Covid for me too.  IT was 24 to 36 hours of intense hot (sweat beads) to cold (teeth chattering / goosebumps) and I hadn't really slept in 4 nights until last night.  First time in my life I took I sleep aid (3mg melatonin) and man I slept like a baby and feel great today.