The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[Californication | 1,477]

4 minutes ago, doner24 said:

Their hesitancy in trusting anything that is told to them at this point from the government. 

I mean outside of the rhetoric from the conservative media, and Trumps misinformation, I guess I don't understand what the federal govt. did related to Corona Virus that damaged their trust.

In the beginning of the pandemic they didn't think we needed masks, when they realized the virus was being transmitted through the air they pushed masks. It's a new virus, new things require learning curves, this error seems reasonable. 

They said it was okay to stop wearing masks if you are vaccinated, I disagee with this. But considering the breakthrough rate on the original virus, maybe that was not terrible advice before the mutations came.

I'd like to understand their side more - help me out.

 

 

 

[doner24 | 1,196]

13 minutes ago, Californication said:

I mean outside of the rhetoric from the conservative media, and Trumps misinformation, I guess I don't understand what the federal govt. did related to Corona Virus that damaged their trust.

In the beginning of the pandemic they didn't think we needed masks, when they realized the virus was being transmitted through the air they pushed masks. It's a new virus, new things require learning curves, this error seems reasonable. 

They said it was okay to stop wearing masks if you are vaccinated, I disagee with this. But considering the breakthrough rate on the original virus, maybe that was not terrible advice before the mutations came.

I'd like to understand their side more - help me out.

 

 

 

They were told, if you wear masks and agree to these restrictions, things will be back to normal soon. They did, and life isn’t back to normal and now there are talks of new restrictions and forced vaccinations by employers. I understand that it’s not the governments fault, but they are tired of the messaging. At first it was “flatten the curve to not overwhelm hospitals”, now it seems to them more like eliminate all infections at all costs to society. 
 

They are willing to make a trade of normalcy for a very small chance at a serious complication/death from the virus. 

[Tulpa | 3,510]

52 minutes ago, doner24 said:

They were told, if you wear masks and agree to these restrictions, things will be back to normal soon.

Who told them that? Because the message I got early on was "this is for the long haul."

 

[doner24 | 1,196]

19 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Who told them that? Because the message I got early on was "this is for the long haul."

 

That was definitely not the initial messages. 

[Californication | 1,477]

2 minutes ago, doner24 said:

That was definitely not the initial messages. 

I believe you. I don't listen to much conservative stuff, but I could imagine someone selling it that way hoping they go along without getting angry.

I honestly don't remember how I thought the time line would go at first. I was late to the game and didn't buy a mask until I was blocked from going to the grocery store. But after a few months and hearing the 1918 taking atleast a year, and how wide spread it was in the u.s.  I thought it would be a while.

 

 

[doner24 | 1,196]

5 minutes ago, Californication said:

I believe you. I don't listen to much conservative stuff, but I could imagine someone selling it that way hoping they go along without getting angry.

I honestly don't remember how I thought the time line would go at first. I was late to the game and didn't buy a mask until I was blocked from going to the grocery store. But after a few months and hearing the 1918 taking atleast a year, and how wide spread it was in the u.s.  I thought it would be a while.

 

 

I really wish everyone would get vaccinated so that one variable would be taken out of the equation. I’ve tried showing my friends the data of who is getting sick, and dying (overwhelmingly unvaccinated people), and they just don’t care at this point. 

[Californication | 1,477]

4 minutes ago, doner24 said:

I really wish everyone would get vaccinated so that one variable would be taken out of the equation. I’ve tried showing my friends the data of who is getting sick, and dying (overwhelmingly unvaccinated people), and they just don’t care at this point. 

I mean that's all you can do at this point. It's gotta be heart breaking in these communities with 1,500 people dying a day.

[doner24 | 1,196]

3 minutes ago, Californication said:

I mean that's all you can do at this point. It's gotta be heart breaking in these communities with 1,500 people dying a day.

Thankfully the community is pretty healthy, as it’s rural Minnesota and very active. There have only been a couple deaths in an area of 10,000 people, and the average age was in the 90’s. 

[OptOut | 8,889]

1 minute ago, doner24 said:

I really wish everyone would get vaccinated so that one variable would be taken out of the equation. I’ve tried showing my friends the data of who is getting sick, and dying (overwhelmingly unvaccinated people), and they just don’t care at this point. 

For a lot of people it's become a source of pride, a signal of their virtue, to stand against the official advice. From what I have seen, it seems to me a lot of Americans reflexively spurn authority.

Also, reversing on a personal political position requires significant perceived loss of face, which some people just cannot seem to bear. In my opinion, it's really a sign of mental weakness rather than strength to be unable to change one's mind, but a lot of people don't seem to agree with this.

If you guys don't want your vaccines, we will sure as shit take them off your hands here in Taiwan!

[Tulpa | 3,510]

1 hour ago, doner24 said:

That was definitely not the initial messages. 

Well, a lot of that was an administration counting on a strong economy to get them a win in the next election, and their message was "there's nothing to worry about."

Even so, the virus doesn't give a shit about how people feel about the messaging. It was pretty obvious that this thing was going to stick around awhile about two months in. 

I get that it's fatiguing, I really do, but this thing kills slowly and painfully, and does lasting damage to survivors. I don't think people have really thought out the actual risks. Those who downplay the risks are the ones getting their asses bit by this thing.

[fcgamer | 4,727]

7 hours ago, doner24 said:

Their hesitancy in trusting anything that is told to them at this point from the government. 

I totally get that, and those who feel this way, as I have the same feeling myself with the situation in Taiwan.

Before we had any "serious" outbreaks, there were guidelines set in place by the central government stating four levels, with the 3rd level being a soft lockdown and the fourth level being a hard lockdown with military patrolling the streets and stuff like that. 

Once covid-19 struck, thanks to lax quarantine requirements for airplane pilots, we went up to a level 3. Initially, it was to last about two weeks. But even after all the other areas cleared up, we were still stuck in a level 3, as the central government (located up north in Taipei) didn't want to lower the level for all areas, aside from the area where they reside. So many people were stuck at home for an extra two months, unemployed, just because of a bunch of dumbos up in Taipei who kept spreading the virus.

Even though the other areas met the requirements of a level two, the goalposts were changed. Then although we're back down to level two, it's a perverted version of the original level 2.

Again, all the problem and outbreak is up north in Taipei and it's suburbs, yet the entitled snobs up their didn't cancel their upcoming mid autumn festival holiday, yet it's been canned and ruined everywhere else. 

In a similar vein, vaccines were now opened for anyone 18 and older here in Taiwan. The elderly and those with health issues had been vaccinated months ago, not necessarily fully vaccinated, but at least one jab. Those who didn't get the second jab should be getting it soon.

So those elderly who don't have the vaccine didn't want it. Also, a lot of the folks walking around maskless or with chin masks are either the elderly or the 18-25 crowd. Again, I don't feel happy when people die, as it's someone's loved one, but if they refuse to play ball, after a certain point, why is the rest of the population being forced to cater towards their stupidity?

And getting back to the government thing, the attitude towards Taipei, and then the attitude towards the rest of the island, paired with moving the goal posts, yeah I don't trust the merit in anything they say anymore.  I mean hell, Taipei was also the first to reopen nightmarkets, and had wanted to open bars and clubs this month too.

[spacepup | 2,405]

6 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Well, a lot of that was an administration counting on a strong economy to get them a win in the next election, and their message was "there's nothing to worry about."

Even so, the virus doesn't give a shit about how people feel about the messaging. It was pretty obvious that this thing was going to stick around awhile about two months in. 

I get that it's fatiguing, I really do, but this thing kills slowly and painfully, and does lasting damage to survivors. I don't think people have really thought out the actual risks. Those who downplay the risks are the ones getting their asses bit by this thing.

Yeah...I mean, I get the whole "I don't trust the government" and "they told us different things early on" however, I feel at THIS point, that sort of feels like a cop-out / cutting off your nose to spite your face / stubbornness and refusal to look at facts of the current situation.

We were told for about a year now, to get the vaccine and things will improve.  Well, not everyone listened.  Not enough people got the vaccine, not enough people were safe, which were contributing factors to the virus continuing to spread and also mutate.  

So now things are tightening down again, mask requirements are coming back, there is continued push for vaccine, and more.

I bolded the part above, because this is the truth that everyone should understand.  All we have to do is look at the facts about what is happening now.  I don't even need to look at statistics, or some "government report" that I may not trust.  All I have to do, is look at the graves of my family members who died from COVID (not hyperbole btw), and the fact that more and more of my friends and family are getting it recently.

The hospitals here are urging people to listen, explaining how close they are to maximum capacity, but many people don't even care anymore.  

 

 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

20 hours ago, Estil said:

Why would health care workers of all people not want the vaccine?  You'd think they more than anybody would know how DEAD wrong not getting that vaccine could be.

Unknown long term effects.  

[Strange | 1,700]

I don’t know who needs to hear this, but not all healthcare workers have the same expertise and medical knowledge as a doctor or an epidemiologist. Not saying it’s easy to become a nurse by any means, but the bar for entry is way lower than someone you would consider enough of an expert to make that sort of call.

Also… why is it news that a few healthcare workers don’t want it? Why isn’t the fact that the vast majority of healthcare workers do get the vaccine headline worthy? Irresponsible journalism.

[Strange | 1,700]

PS: the fact that they told us one thing at the beginning and something different later is a non-issue. That’s how science works. We make guesses at the beginning of a new problem and learn and change our methods. That’s science 101. I did it in grad school. You can read any published paper of mine and countless others where we state a hypothesis or a method that we later learn was wrong.

It’s a failure of America’s science education that people don’t understand this.

[NervousWreck96 | 7]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

PS: the fact that they told us one thing at the beginning and something different later is a non-issue. That’s how science works. We make guesses at the beginning of a new problem and learn and change our methods. That’s science 101. I did it in grad school. You can read any published paper of mine and countless others where we state a hypothesis or a method that we later learn was wrong.

It’s a failure of America’s science education that people don’t understand this.

I think there's a general expectation among the lay-person (i.e. you and me) that "these people are galaxy brains and they should get it right the first time every time because they're so smart". When the scientific body goes back on recommendations that they once made -- which is to be expected with a novel virus -- the lay-person is bound to feel betrayed and disillusioned.

Not that this is an excuse to outright ignore science and endanger others. Humanity has collectively found out more about COVID-19 in 18 months than we've found out about ALS in over a century and a half of study.

[Californication | 1,477]

48 minutes ago, NervousWreck96 said:

I think there's a general expectation among the lay-person (i.e. you and me) that "these people are galaxy brains and they should get it right the first time every time because they're so smart". When the scientific body goes back on recommendations that they once made -- which is to be expected with a novel virus -- the lay-person is bound to feel betrayed and disillusioned.

Not that this is an excuse to outright ignore science and endanger others. Humanity has collectively found out more about COVID-19 in 18 months than we've found out about ALS in over a century and a half of study.

I think it is more than that. The conservative media used any advisory changes as a talking point to attack health policy.

[NervousWreck96 | 7]

There's another thing contributing to vaccine hesitancy that doesn't get enough attention. Mainstream media tends to cast undue attention on "breakthrough cases" - not just public figures, but sometimes just ordinary people who were really unlucky.

I know it can't exactly be helped given the nature of mass media and social media, but it really sends mixed messages about vaccines and their effectiveness. "This dude got the vaccine and was infected. By the way, most people who get the vaccine won't get infected!"

[doner24 | 1,196]

27 minutes ago, NervousWreck96 said:

There's another thing contributing to vaccine hesitancy that doesn't get enough attention. Mainstream media tends to cast undue attention on "breakthrough cases" - not just public figures, but sometimes just ordinary people who were really unlucky.

I know it can't exactly be helped given the nature of mass media and social media, but it really sends mixed messages about vaccines and their effectiveness. "This dude got the vaccine and was infected. By the way, most people who get the vaccine won't get infected!"

Agreed. I really wish they would start advertising the percentage of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people that are cases/hospitalized/ICU/Deaths. The info seems to be out there, but hard to find. 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

2 hours ago, NervousWreck96 said:

I think there's a general expectation among the lay-person (i.e. you and me) that "these people are galaxy brains and they should get it right the first time every time because they're so smart". When the scientific body goes back on recommendations that they once made -- which is to be expected with a novel virus -- the lay-person is bound to feel betrayed and disillusioned.

Not that this is an excuse to outright ignore science and endanger others. Humanity has collectively found out more about COVID-19 in 18 months than we've found out about ALS in over a century and a half of study.

I think it might have helped if the talking heads said outright from the beginning that this is something new, and recommendations may change based on the best available information at the time (remember when you were supposed to sanitize your groceries and leave your mail outside for 2 days?)

Or it may not have.  I've seen people really off the deep end with some of this stuff.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

I think it is more than that. The conservative media used any advisory changes as a talking point to attack health policy.

Do you ever stop with the one sided politics in here, as it's not necessary.  it's not like either side holds the cards in the deck of honesty in the least bit, and you already admitted you should educated yourself on conservative views and media since you don't follow it (which to me means you get it from a liberal outlet cherry picking examples to make a point.)  I'm not saying conservatives aren't doing it, some are, but clustering an entire believe system or political party to be the demon in this is both bizarre and childish.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

1 hour ago, NervousWreck96 said:

There's another thing contributing to vaccine hesitancy that doesn't get enough attention. Mainstream media tends to cast undue attention on "breakthrough cases" - not just public figures, but sometimes just ordinary people who were really unlucky.

That's my problem.  Vaccine was effective with 2 shots, then some news came out for what a month or two saying a follow up was needed for all, now in the last day or two it's coming back that the two shots is enough, as long as you're not compromised in some fashion.  That's enough to spook people into crying bs too.

And yeah, the breakthrough cases, that's a nasty rabbit hole.  Sure there are breakthrough cases...so?  It's like what, a hundredth of a single percent, and then well under 1% of those end up dead from that as well.  What's the end game here, fucking with people trust so bad the anti-vaxxers have it even easier scaring the shit out of parents about other vaccines too?  It's not like there aren't cases of people who got the flu shot, chickenbox, measles, etc still being around those with it, getting it too, and possibly in a tiny bit of the population dying as well.  But hey since the new virus is the one the media can feed off of and scumbag politicians for brownie points, let's make a huge dust up over it.  Waffling on mask use, then type, and how to wear, etc was one level of shitty antics, but doing this over the actual drug is disgusting.

I got my two shots, if the third becomes a must I will, but that's where I personally draw the line.

Where fcgamer ended it I feel is best and how I feel about it at this rate: "I don't feel happy when people die, as it's someone's loved one, but if they refuse to play ball, after a certain point, why is the rest of the population being forced to cater towards their stupidity? "  They want to die, that's their choice and their selfish one screwing with their relations and coworkers feelings, they brought it.  I get some can't get the shot, fine, they should isolate, mask up, live in a bubble, whatever works until it tapers off like past ugly viruses (like in 1918.)

[fcgamer | 4,727]

3 hours ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Unknown long term effects.  

Did you say selfishness?

[NervousWreck96 | 7]

22 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

I think it might have helped if the talking heads said outright from the beginning that this is something new, and recommendations may change based on the best available information at the time

I'm sure a lot of them actually did, but it got lost in all the panic and uncertainty of the moment.

[fcgamer | 4,727]

3 hours ago, Strange said:

I don’t know who needs to hear this, but not all healthcare workers have the same expertise and medical knowledge as a doctor or an epidemiologist. Not saying it’s easy to become a nurse by any means, but the bar for entry is way lower than someone you would consider enough of an expert to make that sort of call.

Also… why is it news that a few healthcare workers don’t want it? Why isn’t the fact that the vast majority of healthcare workers do get the vaccine headline worthy? Irresponsible journalism.

I have a former student ) ex friend over here who bitched and moaned that she got AZ, and a week later Moderna became available. "Nurse", lol.