The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

Just now, fcgamer said:

Did you say selfishness?

Nope.  It's right there in the Queen's English.

Estil asked why any healthcare professional wouldn't want to sprint out and get vaccinated, and I replied with what the healthcare professionals that I know that were either hesitant or won't get the shot have said.

 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

2 minutes ago, NervousWreck96 said:

I'm sure a lot of them actually did, but it got lost in all the panic and uncertainty of the moment.

Well, the scientists probably did, but I don't think many (if any?) of the public faces of this thing did.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

4 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Nope.  It's right there in the Queen's English.

Estil asked why any healthcare professional wouldn't want to sprint out and get vaccinated, and I replied with what the healthcare professionals that I know that were either hesitant or won't get the shot have said.

 

I know what you said they said, but ultimately it's just selfishness - they don't want to take a potential unknown risk upon their bodies. There's nothing more to say.

If that's the attitude, why should I or anyone else get vaccinated (I'm fully vaccinated btw, and I have psoriasis autoimmune disorder as many of you know, and I got the "risky AZ vaxx" ).  What makes them so f'ing special that others should be the guinea pigs and risk potential long term side effects?

Which leads me back to the situation that in countries where vaccines are readily available for anyone who wants one, after a point, if you don't choose to get it, we should just say "screw it" and not worry about it.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I know what you said they said, but ultimately it's just selfishness - they don't want to take a potential unknown risk upon their bodies. There's nothing more to say.

Their bodies though.   Not yours or mine.

Are you still wearing asbestos-lined clothing?   That was "perfectly safe" too.

 

[Tulpa | 3,492]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bped/hai-shoulian-keep-fighting-prominent-anti-vaxxer-tells-supporters-before-dying-of-covid

[Californication | 1,477]

5 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Do you ever stop with the one sided politics in here, as it's not necessary.  it's not like either side holds the cards in the deck of honesty in the least bit, and you already admitted you should educated yourself on conservative views and media since you don't follow it (which to me means you get it from a liberal outlet cherry picking examples to make a point.)  I'm not saying conservatives aren't doing it, some are, but clustering an entire believe system or political party to be the demon in this is both bizarre and childish.

I listen to progressive news, not liberal. 

It's amazing to me that people are still capable of both side-siding the failures of Trumps response to covid, the fact that they said it was fake, not to take vaccines, and are promoting horse drugs over getting vaccinated. 

What is it you think I am leaving out?

Edited September 14, 2021 by Californication

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

Wow, are people still arguing that the vaccine should be forced on people?

I've had both doses of the vaccine, as has everyone in my family but I don't think anyone in the world should be forced to put a foreign substance in their bodies. If you choose to get it, I support that. If you choose not to get it, I support that. If the government chooses to force people to get it, I will be very much against that, it's nobody else's right to tell people what to do when it comes to medical health.

Yes, we can force people to wear helmets but that's only if they choose to drive a motorcycle. We don't force them to wear helmets all the time so we shouldn't force people to get the vaccine unless they partake in a related risky action, like travelling internationally.

My girlfriend is a doctor and has literally held the hand of someone choking to death from Covic-19. Literally to death. Tonight she's going to a program she may join called Never Die Alone where a doctor sits with someone for their last few hours of life if they don't have any family to be with them. I have heard the stories of what this virus can do and have seen first hand the toll it can put on the medical professionals trying to support it but both my girlfriend and I firmly believe it's not the government's place to force anyone to take any vaccine of any kind unless that person is travelling.

It's not selfish.

I think we should support each other in our own choices, I choose to get the vaccine but I don't choose for anyone else to get it. Just me.

[Californication | 1,477]

6 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Wow, are people still arguing that the vaccine should be forced on people?

I've had both doses of the vaccine, as has everyone in my family but I don't think anyone in the world should be forced to put a foreign substance in their bodies. If you choose to get it, I support that. If you choose not to get it, I support that. If the government chooses to force people to get it, I will be very much against that, it's nobody else's right to tell people what to do when it comes to medical health.

Yes, we can force people to wear helmets but that's only if they choose to drive a motorcycle. We don't force them to wear helmets all the time so we shouldn't force people to get the vaccine unless they partake in a related risky action, like travelling internationally.

My girlfriend is a doctor and has literally held the hand of someone choking to death from Covic-19. Literally to death. Tonight she's going to a program she may join called Never Die Alone where a doctor sits with someone for their last few hours of life if they don't have any family to be with them. I have heard the stories of what this virus can do and have seen first hand the toll it can put on the medical professionals trying to support it but both my girlfriend and I firmly believe it's not the government's place to force anyone to take any vaccine of any kind unless that person is travelling.

It's not selfish.

I think we should support each other in our own choices, I choose to get the vaccine but I don't choose for anyone else to get it. Just me.

I mean no one is forcing them to do anything. They just will not be allowed to hold certain positions or use services so they cannot endanger other people.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

20 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Wow, are people still arguing that the vaccine should be forced on people?

Who is arguing that? As Californication has said, businesses and certain organizations (including the government) can require proof of vaccination to keep working.

That's not forcing anything, as those who choose not to can go find another job without those requirements. Jobs often require skill sets, degrees, and background checks. This is another part of that.

You choose not to get the vaccine, others can choose not to have anything to do with you.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Tulpa

[fcgamer | 4,723]

44 minutes ago, Californication said:

I listen to progressive news, not liberal. 

It's amazing to me that people are still capable of both side-siding the failures of Trumps response to covid, the fact that they said it was fake, not to take vaccines, and are promoting horse drugs over getting vaccinated. 

What is it you think I am leaving out?

The WHO, of course.

[Estil | 1,264]

3 hours ago, fcgamer said:

The WHO, of course.

I don't get it; what does a 60s band have to do with any of this?

 

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

4 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Who is arguing that? As Californication has said, businesses and certain organizations (including the government) can require proof of vaccination to keep working.

That's not forcing anything, as those who choose not to can go find another job without those requirements. Jobs often require skill sets, degrees, and background checks. This is another part of that.

You choose not to get the vaccine, others can choose not to have anything to do with you.

 

I had to read a few pages to catch up and I did read someone arguing that people should be forced to get the vaccine and it's selfish not to.

I wasn't referring to restricting access to certain things, that's fine.

[Estil | 1,264]

22 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I had to read a few pages to catch up and I did read someone arguing that people should be forced to get the vaccine and it's selfish not to.

I wasn't referring to restricting access to certain things, that's fine.

I would be totally for mandatory childhood vaccinations, with only medical (none of this your religion is against it or any crap like that) exceptions allowed.

[Tanooki | 4,932]

5 hours ago, Californication said:

I listen to progressive news, not liberal. 

It's amazing to me that people are still capable of both side-siding the failures of Trumps response to covid, the fact that they said it was fake, not to take vaccines, and are promoting horse drugs over getting vaccinated. 

What is it you think I am leaving out?

Well depending how someone feels, progressive is worse, liberal at least is more likely to listen and engage properly, (not that you are from what I can tell) progressive tends to be the more ugly side of liberal that usually end up mocked online with triggered memes and what not.

You're leaving out the large majority of not just republicans, but anything more right/conservative leaning, call it the silent majority, aren't that fucking nuts by a long shot.  The press feeds off the meme type dimwits and trolls, they'll go dig up a racist and ignore someone making a valid argument because it doesn't sell press/air time or fit a narrative to keep people thinking 'all righties are trump blowjobbers who feel 9/11 was an inside job and that vaccines will give you brain damage.'

Both sides as I said are playing stupid games, that's easy to see watching what gets done and peoples responses, more so press outside the US looking in.  They'll call the righty weirdos on the horse drugs and refusing to get shots, but they also call out the ass kissing the corrupt WHO the left does, fauci and his mood swing of the day/week on what needs to be done, driving overkill shut downs and regulation on stuff in states where it has no better impact to help stuff improve in states that aren't so gung ho about it.  List goes on in either direction really, that's the point, plenty of BS to spread around which causes both crank groups on either side to double down and be media mockery talking points to cluster entire groups in as all psychos to win view/reader ship points and it's pathetic.

[GPX | 1,369]

15 hours ago, Strange said:

PS: the fact that they told us one thing at the beginning and something different later is a non-issue. That’s how science works. We make guesses at the beginning of a new problem and learn and change our methods. That’s science 101. I did it in grad school. You can read any published paper of mine and countless others where we state a hypothesis or a method that we later learn was wrong.

It’s a failure of America’s science education that people don’t understand this.

It’s partly a failure of the education system to not emphasize that science is a constantly evolving subject. It’s also a symptom of society with certain groups having egos where they think reading a few articles on google and they can then outsmart their doctor, with many years of medical training.

A lot of social media and journalism nowadays tend to focus on the click bait or sensationalist news, and they tend to highlight the gossip-inducing information rather giving out the full facts in their entirety. Misinformation is propagated and some sectors of the community lap it up as though it’s the same as personal medical advice from their doctor.

[Californication | 1,477]

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Well depending how someone feels, progressive is worse, liberal at least is more likely to listen and engage properly, (not that you are from what I can tell) progressive tends to be the more ugly side of liberal that usually end up mocked online with triggered memes and what not.

You're leaving out the large majority of not just republicans, but anything more right/conservative leaning, call it the silent majority, aren't that fucking nuts by a long shot.  The press feeds off the meme type dimwits and trolls, they'll go dig up a racist and ignore someone making a valid argument because it doesn't sell press/air time or fit a narrative to keep people thinking 'all righties are trump blowjobbers who feel 9/11 was an inside job and that vaccines will give you brain damage.'

Both sides as I said are playing stupid games, that's easy to see watching what gets done and peoples responses, more so press outside the US looking in.  They'll call the righty weirdos on the horse drugs and refusing to get shots, but they also call out the ass kissing the corrupt WHO the left does, fauci and his mood swing of the day/week on what needs to be done, driving overkill shut downs and regulation on stuff in states where it has no better impact to help stuff improve in states that aren't so gung ho about it.  List goes on in either direction really, that's the point, plenty of BS to spread around which causes both crank groups on either side to double down and be media mockery talking points to cluster entire groups in as all psychos to win view/reader ship points and it's pathetic.

I mean the main difference between progressives and liberals is that liberals are good with corporatate socialism. Since the conservative party is a fan of giving money to corporations then they should feel more comfortable talking to liberals.

I don't understand how the rest of your rant equal the democrats needing to take responsibility for anything. I can clearly list a half dozen objective reasons why this has been made worse by conservatives and I don't see a single real point in all of that.

Can you imagine if Trump won the presidency instead of Biden? We would be fuk. He literally had zero plans for vaccine distribution because he is an idiot.

For gods sakes the conservatives literally used the military to collect PPE and instead of distributing it to hospitals they gave it to private corporations to sell it to the highest bidder. They used our military to get PPE and then gave it to corporations who sold it to make a profit to other people including other countries instead of Americans. They should be in prison - the lot of them.

Americans died because hospitals didn't have the equipment they needed and Trump refused to force corporations to help in the effort.

Just to be clear, when I say conservatives I am not alking about every single person, obviously every person doesn't have exsctly the same beliefs.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Californication

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

On 9/13/2021 at 7:48 PM, doner24 said:

It doesn’t change the issues that happen during those events/restrictions. 

While true, if everybody had actually stayed home, worn masks, etc., at the beginning of all this, it would have by and large been over in the U.S. within ~4-6 weeks, maybe ~6-8 weeks at the outside.  Everyone staying away from one another and following proper precautions would have virtually halted the spread and let new cases die out.  New Zealand opened their country up fully with no ill effects after such a period, and only locked down again when people stupidlyselfishly went abroad and came back, bringing new cases with them.  And after that lockdown...their country opened up again, with basically no restrictions.  The real reason this has been as long and as hard on people is because of the huge part of the population that just won't do what's best for everybody, helping to fuel the spread, and allowing those who have been following the restrictions and protocols to shoulder the vast majority of the burden of isolation, depression related to said isolation, etc.

On 9/13/2021 at 9:19 PM, spacepup said:

My point is, death is tragedy regardless how it happens.  I do believe that some people are facing consequences for their actions, but I don't see much value in the darwin-style comments because I actually think that even UNDERMINES the seriousness of why getting more people vaccinated is still important.  Practically, we can't (and won't) turn people away from hospitals who didn't get vaccinated.  Therefore, natural selection is not going to "solve" this problem.  People not being safe is going to continue to impact others negatively. 

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.  Was it a tragedy when Hitler died?  Extreme and not directly related example, but hey, he had relatives too, and even some who hated what he did and were saddened at his passing, even though he was as obviously misguided (putting it absolutely mildly) in his beliefs and actions.  We are literally seeing Darwinism play out at this point, as those who don't get with the program (masking up, properly socially distancing, getting vaccinated if/when they can, etc.) are only helping the virus mutate further, which has proven thus far to be completely detrimental to the human race, making it more infections and, in a lot of cases, even more deadly, killing even more people as a more or less direct result of people not listening.

As far as hospitals turning away people, you need to do some more reading, as they're already preparing to do exactly that.  They are re-training and re-steeling hospital staff to be able to properly medically triage incoming COVID patients and turning away those who they either believe can't be saved or simply stand a worse chance at surviving than someone else.  How do those numbers work out?  Well, seeing as vaccinated folks are only a small percentage of every hospitalization category currently, as hospital beds across the board (ER, ICU, even just in general) are nearly or right at full capacity, it's going to end up being the unvaccinated that get turned away in droves if or when the numbers pick up and hospital capacity is overwhelmed.

In the short term, no, natural selection won't help things, it'll only serve to make them worse.  On a longer term timeframe, though?  While I don't agree with the frustrated enthusiasm that the idea was presented with, I can absolutely see natural selection working against those who didn't and wouldn't get the vaccine.  The virus will kill a ton of people, but it'll kill a lot more of those who refuse to follow the protocols and/or get vaccinated than those who do.

On 9/13/2021 at 11:05 PM, Californication said:

I mean outside of the rhetoric from the conservative media, and Trumps misinformation, I guess I don't understand what the federal govt. did related to Corona Virus that damaged their trust.

They politicized it, pure and simple, and in doing so, deliberately led a lot of people with a tenuous-at-best grasp of science to distrust it for political gains.  What truly hurts for me is to see all of the people I know who normally have an excellent grasp of science and logic totally ignore the hard facts and figures presented (by the "mainstream media," ooooooooohhhhh [waggles fingers ominously]) simply because their favorite politician (on track to become a god king to many) told them so, to not believe what those who question him say, regardless of what it is, how he is the only one providing "the truth," etc.  I have never been so disheartened or upset with so many people in my life as I have in the last couple of years, all the while suddenly having an intimate understanding how things like Jonestown and Heaven's Gate occurred.

On 9/13/2021 at 11:24 PM, doner24 said:

They were told, if you wear masks and agree to these restrictions, things will be back to normal soon. They did, and life isn’t back to normal and now there are talks of new restrictions and forced vaccinations by employers. I understand that it’s not the governments fault, but they are tired of the messaging. At first it was “flatten the curve to not overwhelm hospitals”, now it seems to them more like eliminate all infections at all costs to society.

They are willing to make a trade of normalcy for a very small chance at a serious complication/death from the virus. 

They were told those things based on the idea that everyone would do them, and based on what has happened in other parts of the world (New Zealand, for example), they were right.  Unfortunately, far too many selfish jackasses decided to ignore what was best for everybody and refused to mask up, going out only when they absolutely had to, socially distanced when doing so, and the rest of the time stayed their asses home, away from everyone who wasn't part of their immediate household.  Life isn't back to normal because of those that didn't follow the protocols, then get vaccinated when they wouldn't follow the protocols, not because the protocols themselves were somehow wrong, or flawed.  Far too many people weren't willing to take any break from relative normalcy (~4-6 weeks is all it really would have taken), which is what has fucked it up for everybody and continues to do so today.

16 hours ago, Strange said:

PS: the fact that they told us one thing at the beginning and something different later is a non-issue. That’s how science works. We make guesses at the beginning of a new problem and learn and change our methods. That’s science 101. I did it in grad school. You can read any published paper of mine and countless others where we state a hypothesis or a method that we later learn was wrong.

It’s a failure of America’s science education that people don’t understand this.

It's not the science that's the problem, it's the politicizing of it that's eroded trust.  Part of that has come from the CDC changing their recommendations back and forth a few times, purely for political reasons (because a politician/bureaucrat did so or forced the agency to do so).  The science they were releasing didn't change, so anyone who understood the science and followed along with it continued to have faith in that.  However, the agency which is normally presented as operating only based on science and only in the best interests of the public's health lost a lot of face and credit with people because of shifting policies.

13 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Did you say selfishness?

Reading between the lines, absolutely.  I'm pretty sure that antibodies (and the information on how to make them, the only things of the vaccine that actually remain in the body after a few weeks) haven't ever caused any long term effects across entire populations, so outside of folks with some sort of autoimmune issue that they're afraid of tripping off, I just can't understand what's going on in those minds.  The mRNA technology had been in testing for approximately 15 years at the point the first vaccines were made using it.  The SARS vaccine that the COVID vaccine is based on has been in development and testing for slightly longer.  Neither had any sort of long term effects come up in any of the testing done for more than a decade, but because we didn't test the essentially proven delivery system and essentially proven vaccine for 2, 3, 5, 10 years before giving them to people, we somehow have to fear for long term effects?  People are incredibly more likely to suffer an issue because of an error in manufacturing (which happened with some Moderna vaccines manufactured in Spain and delivered to Japan, actually) than to suffer any ill effects from the underlying science and technologies themselves.  The people to have this thoroughly explained to them and be expected to understand it the best are medical professionals, so yeah, selfishness at the end of the day after disregarding a decade and a half or more of two proven medical technologies.  FFS.

8 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

Wow, are people still arguing that the vaccine should be forced on people?

I've had both doses of the vaccine, as has everyone in my family but I don't think anyone in the world should be forced to put a foreign substance in their bodies. If you choose to get it, I support that. If you choose not to get it, I support that. If the government chooses to force people to get it, I will be very much against that, it's nobody else's right to tell people what to do when it comes to medical health.

At this point, to certain parts of the population who not only refuse to get vaccinated, but also refuse to follow any of the guidelines on not spreading this shit as far and wide as they possibly can.  The more I hear about how much it hurts all the local rednecks to wear a mask when they're out and around people who they don't live with, stay at least 6 feet away from said people, stay the hell home and not pack themselves in like sardines at the drop of a hat, the more I lose sympathy for their arguments about their rights being trodden upon, seeing as they're helping obliterate the rights of so many others to to LIFE.  So if they can't follow simple, non-harmful precautions to slow the spread long enough for numbers to seriously die down to the point where they're potentially manageable, I feel less and less bad about the thought of someone holding them down and making sure they can't get the shit and pass it along to everybody they can while continuing to party and getting blackout drunk every weekend, regardless of how that makes them feel.

At present I'm still technically against outright forcing people to get the vaccine.  But I am completely, maddeningly INFLAMED by the fact that no governmental body anywhere in the country will actually force (and ENFORCE) locations to deny entry to those who are unvaccinated.  I would have added "and/or following masking/social distancing guidelines," but I'm done with that after personally seeing hundreds, if not thousands "mask up" just long enough to make it past the person (and sometimes security) at the front of the store making sure everyone is following protocol, only to yank the damned thing down, if not outright discard it in the floor, the moment after they're inside.  Seeing as it's beyond any store to have those clowns thrown out on their asses for not following the most basic of safety protocols throughout their visit, screw it, no vaccine, no entry.  The same idea has held up for decades in regard to public schools, colleges, traveling abroad, etc., so I'm honestly puzzled why there's all the brouhaha over the concept now, in this situation, save for all the political nonsense it's been unnecessarily and unfairly saddled with.

For everybody who's read this far, hypothetical question.  If the worst cases of COVID not only killed a person, but reanimated them in such a manner as has been popularly displayed for decades in various zombie stories, would you still be against governmental requirement/enforcement of a vaccine against it?  Seriously, where's the line, if any?  I'm honestly curious about this, and fearfully eager to see serious, continuing rejection of the idea by "zombie huggers," lol.

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

5 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

At this point, to certain parts of the population who not only refuse to get vaccinated, but also refuse to follow any of the guidelines on not spreading this shit as far and wide as they possibly can.  The more I hear about how much it hurts all the local rednecks to wear a mask when they're out and around people who they don't live with, stay at least 6 feet away from said people, stay the hell home and not pack themselves in like sardines at the drop of a hat, the more I lose sympathy for their arguments about their rights being trodden upon, seeing as they're helping obliterate the rights of so many others to to LIFE.  So if they can't follow simple, non-harmful precautions to slow the spread long enough for numbers to seriously die down to the point where they're potentially manageable, I feel less and less bad about the thought of someone holding them down and making sure they can't get the shit and pass it along to everybody they can while continuing to party and getting blackout drunk every weekend, regardless of how that makes them feel.

At present I'm still technically against outright forcing people to get the vaccine.  But I am completely, maddeningly INFLAMED by the fact that no governmental body anywhere in the country will actually force (and ENFORCE) locations to deny entry to those who are unvaccinated.  I would have added "and/or following masking/social distancing guidelines," but I'm done with that after personally seeing hundreds, if not thousands "mask up" just long enough to make it past the person (and sometimes security) at the front of the store making sure everyone is following protocol, only to yank the damned thing down, if not outright discard it in the floor, the moment after they're inside.  Seeing as it's beyond any store to have those clowns thrown out on their asses for not following the most basic of safety protocols throughout their visit, screw it, no vaccine, no entry.  The same idea has held up for decades in regard to public schools, colleges, traveling abroad, etc., so I'm honestly puzzled why there's all the brouhaha over the concept now, in this situation, save for all the political nonsense it's been unnecessarily and unfairly saddled with.

For everybody who's read this far, hypothetical question.  If the worst cases of COVID not only killed a person, but reanimated them in such a manner as has been popularly displayed for decades in various zombie stories, would you still be against governmental requirement/enforcement of a vaccine against it?  Seriously, where's the line, if any?  I'm honestly curious about this, and fearfully eager to see serious, continuing rejection of the idea by "zombie huggers," lol.

I don't disagree with you except that this isn't something new with Covid, transmitted diseases have been affecting our elderly population forever and if people just washed their damn hands properly instead of being such disgusting pigs, we wouldn't have as much of a problem. I go into public bathrooms and people either walk out without washing or they rinse for 3 seconds and then dry their hands on their pants. The government has given up on trying to educate people on how to stop the spread of disease so enforcing this new mask rule is not going to work any better.

And nobody seems to understand proper handling techniques for a mask anyway. You're supposed to completely wash your hands and then apply your mask without touching the front, only the loops around your ears. Then drive to where you're going (unless there's a sink there), wear your mask, then wear it home, wash your hands again and then remove your mask carefully. I see all these idiots putting their fingers all over the outside of their mask and the second their finger touches it, that mask is now compromised and should be thrown in the garbage. And if you pull it down under your chin, you should just wear a sign that reads, "I'm stupid" because anyone that understands science knows how moisture affects the effectiveness of a N95 mask. As you exhale, you're breathing out moisture all over your mask and when you pull it up again (not to mention you're touching it), it's now less effective because it's wet.

So you're worried about people wearing a mask, I just don't care because their masks are going to be ineffective anyway, even if they do wear them because they're so stupid they can't understand you shouldn't touch a life saving medical device. Me telling them to wear a mask isn't going to have any effect on them.

And don't get me started on the people that make their own masks or think pulling up their shirt is going to have any effect. The molecular structure of the virus is not going to be combatted by the woven cotton of your shirt, sorry buddy. You must have missed that day in chemistry.

Source 1: my dad worked with the Department Of Health for 30 years and then managed an old age home for 10 years

Source 2: my fiance is a doctor

Source 3: I have a Bachelor's Degree in science

[Californication | 1,477]

10 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Source 1: my dad worked with the Department Of Health for 30 years and then managed an old age home for 10 years

Source 2: my fiance is a doctor

Source 3: I have a Bachelor's Degree in science

They've done plenty of research about wearing masks at this point. Every face covering will do something to varying degrees. Rule of thumb: the more layers you have the more protected you are. Washing hands isn't that big of a deal compared to wearing a mask because this is an airborne virus. Droplets are stopped by having layers in front of your nose and mouth, this is very, very simple. And we have evidence that shows it works because every time they institute a mask mandate infections go down. 

[Tanooki | 4,932]

7 hours ago, Californication said:

I mean the main difference between progressives and liberals is that liberals are good with corporatate socialism. Since the conservative party is a fan of giving money to corporations then they should feel more comfortable talking to liberals.

I don't understand how the rest of your rant equal the democrats needing to take responsibility for anything. I can clearly list a half dozen objective reasons why this has been made worse by conservatives and I don't see a single real point in all of that.

Can you imagine if Trump won the presidency instead of Biden? We would be fuk. He literally had zero plans for vaccine distribution because he is an idiot.

For gods sakes the conservatives literally used the military to collect PPE and instead of distributing it to hospitals they gave it to private corporations to sell it to the highest bidder. They used our military to get PPE and then gave it to corporations who sold it to make a profit to other people including other countries instead of Americans. They should be in prison - the lot of them.

Americans died because hospitals didn't have the equipment they needed and Trump refused to force corporations to help in the effort.

Just to be clear, when I say conservatives I am not alking about every single person, obviously every person doesn't have exsctly the same beliefs.

That's the perception, and not entirely wrong of some republicans yes, but a real conservative the voter more than the scum you see propped up in the press is about the smaller govt, less regulation, 'conserving' funds not blowing budgets and passing them to fat cats.

The whole equal or not thing, misdirecting masks, and Trump, I refuse to go down that rabbit hole as you're not right about that, but I don't want to get into taking the bait, again it's what you're being fed reading your choice sources feeding their biases in an echo chamber (much like some douche taking either MSNBC or FOX as gospel.)  Trump is perceived as not doing this or that, having no plan or so son nonsense, operation warp speed and other notes, if you dig, show otherwise, but that I'll leave to you to dig up trying to source an unbiased source.

There is also no FORCING companies to comply in the mask argument you made, it's still a free country and one based more on capitalism than communism/socialism where the gov't acts like the CCP and just pulls a DO this or you're done edict with jail time, disappearances, etc.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

2 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I don't disagree with you except that this isn't something new with Covid, transmitted diseases have been affecting our elderly population forever and if people just washed their damn hands properly instead of being such disgusting pigs, we wouldn't have as much of a problem. I go into public bathrooms and people either walk out without washing or they rinse for 3 seconds and then dry their hands on their pants. The government has given up on trying to educate people on how to stop the spread of disease so enforcing this new mask rule is not going to work any better.

And nobody seems to understand proper handling techniques for a mask anyway. You're supposed to completely wash your hands and then apply your mask without touching the front, only the loops around your ears. Then drive to where you're going (unless there's a sink there), wear your mask, then wear it home, wash your hands again and then remove your mask carefully. I see all these idiots putting their fingers all over the outside of their mask and the second their finger touches it, that mask is now compromised and should be thrown in the garbage. And if you pull it down under your chin, you should just wear a sign that reads, "I'm stupid" because anyone that understands science knows how moisture affects the effectiveness of a N95 mask. As you exhale, you're breathing out moisture all over your mask and when you pull it up again (not to mention you're touching it), it's now less effective because it's wet.

So you're worried about people wearing a mask, I just don't care because their masks are going to be ineffective anyway, even if they do wear them because they're so stupid they can't understand you shouldn't touch a life saving medical device. Me telling them to wear a mask isn't going to have any effect on them.

And don't get me started on the people that make their own masks or think pulling up their shirt is going to have any effect. The molecular structure of the virus is not going to be combatted by the woven cotton of your shirt, sorry buddy. You must have missed that day in chemistry.

Source 1: my dad worked with the Department Of Health for 30 years and then managed an old age home for 10 years

Source 2: my fiance is a doctor

Source 3: I have a Bachelor's Degree in science

Yeah about masks; we're expected to wear them to spread less droplets as we breathe and talk, not to shield ourselves personally. 

[Californication | 1,477]

38 minutes ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

Yeah about masks; we're expected to wear them to spread less droplets as we breathe and talk, not to shield ourselves personally. 

It's both. That's why they say a person wearing an N95 can be in a room with someone who has covid for x number of hours and have x (low) probability of getting sick.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks

"Shield the wearer"

Edited September 15, 2021 by Californication

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

5 minutes ago, Californication said:

It's both. That's why they say a person wearing an N95 can be in a room with someone who has covid for x number of hours and have x (low) probability of getting sick.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks

"Shield the wearer"

Sure but we're not all wearing N95 lol. I was talking about those little blue masks we all have.

My mask is less protective for me than the combination of everyone else's.

And like Code Monkey wrote, people have a tough time following the protocol with N95 masks so their effectiveness as a shield would often be compromised.

 

[Californication | 1,477]

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

[Tulpa | 3,492]

58 minutes ago, Californication said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

And I'm still seeing douchebags on forums spouting that the vaccine is the thing killing people and COVID is "just the flu."