The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[Tulpa | 3,492]

4 minutes ago, obnoxious said:

I can't agree with this stuff. If employers want all their staff to vaccinated, it's liberty. When a government steps in and forces everyone to something, it's not.

Where has that happened? You're not being forced in the US to take the vaccine, you just lose out on privileges (and they're not rights, they're privileges.)

That happens all the time. You can't hold certain jobs without a degree, or certain positions without qualifications. You're not guaranteed things just because you want them.

The government is an employer, and can order its employees to do things, like any other employer. That's why (federal) government employees and agencies can require the vaccine. The states take care of their own.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Tulpa

[Tulpa | 3,492]

Just now, obnoxious said:

Yeah, I know. That's the problem.

 

I'm out. Be excellent to each other.

Well, I see it as this being a health issue. And there's no shortage of restrictions on things due to health.

But honestly, rights aren't really being curtailed, just privileges. Privileges can be taken away.

 

[Californication | 1,477]

12 minutes ago, obnoxious said:

These are two separated topics. I'm talking about the vaccines not about morons in suits (all politicians included).

 

No way I'll get into politic discussion. My point is that social segregation will be a disaster worse than the virus.

 

You can heal a virus in a year but social rupture takes decades.

My point is that political messaging influences peoples opinions and since your presidents political messages came from Donald Trump this could be expected 

And you are saying that the virus isn't a big deal but between our two countrys there are 1.2. M dead people that didn't heal. In the U.S. like over 90% of the deaths are from unvaccinnated over the last few months so the vaccine makes a difference. And you are claiming there cpuld be long term side effects, yes maybe, but we also know covid is causing long term health issues in people.

[obnoxious | 107]

6 minutes ago, Californication said:

And you are saying that the virus isn't a big deal

I never said such thing. I'm sorry if you understood that but I never said or inferred that.

 

I'm putting the topic in the ignore list.

Edited September 20, 2021 by obnoxious

[Californication | 1,477]

1 minute ago, obnoxious said:

I never said such thing. I'm sorry if you understood that but I never said or inferred that.

My mistake. You said the vaccines are not a big deal implying it makes more sense to potentially get covid than take a vaccine.

[Brickman | 3,983]

Dude comes in and starts a debate then leaves because people don’t agree and then puts it on ignore haha. Can’t take someone’s point seriously with that reaction.

 

[Estil | 1,264]

All I know, is that anyone who can get the vaccine (that is, they don't have any medical issues that would make the vaccine incompatible or something) and for whatever reason chooses not to get it is a fool.  PERIOD.

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

1 hour ago, obnoxious said:

I'm out. Be excellent to each other.

Party on, dude!

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

1 hour ago, obnoxious said:

You can heal a virus in a year but social rupture takes decades.

You say as we're starting to round out the end of year two of this crap being worldwide, along with the now millions who have died as a result who can't be healed.

38 minutes ago, Shmup said:

Dude comes in and starts a debate then leaves because people don’t agree and then puts it on ignore haha. Can’t take someone’s point seriously with that reaction.

I've found it hard to take anybody in that camp too seriously since most of it is just inarticulate repetition of whatever Fox News or the Washington Times has been spewing lately, none of which seems to have been fact checked, then ultimately devolving into an argument about their "rights," and only their rights, which are broadly expected but never defined.  And hey, despite the fact that while someone who refuses to wear a mask might never get sick (either through luck or being an asymptomatic carrier), fuck all of those other people who they may get sick, and even cause the death of.

I swear to God, it's as if these folks have all joined a cult, the symbol of which I can only imagine is of a person with their head literally shoved up their ass.  If a member of their ilk manages, usually on their deathbed, that they were wrong about this the whole time (about masks, the vaccines, social distancing, etc.), they're suddenly crazy, and immediately "excommunicated" from the cult.  The hardcore Trumpists won't even listen to Trump anymore on this point, which is wild, but as I've said previously, gives me an uncomfortable understanding of how things like Jonestown occurred.

[obnoxious | 107]

1 hour ago, Shmup said:

Dude comes in and starts a debate then leaves because people don’t agree and then puts it on ignore haha. Can’t take someone’s point seriously with that reaction.

 

It's very comfortable to thrash someone, saying things that aren't true, believing he won't read or respond. But I expected that.

 

Look I don't care if someone disagrees with me and I really meant it, I'm not looking for validation. I did not *start* a debate, I just replied to one and my intention was to point out that people are behaving just like people do before social disasters. I'm not a bit worried about people thrashing me for my opinion not being "the acceptable" or something.

 

I really believe that we will only be able to talk about what we're going through in ten/twenty years. Until then my role is to ask people if they aren't going a little too far when judging other people's choices. 

 

It may be already too late. I said that the vaccines are c**p and someone understood that I'm saying the disease is not a big deal. This is not the kind of debate I'm used to. It's a recipe for flame wars and no one is interested in hearing, just pointing fingers and identifying "the dangerous ones".

 

2 hours ago, Californication said:

My mistake. You said the vaccines are not a big deal implying it makes more sense to potentially get covid than take a vaccine.

 You did a mea-culpa just to accuse me, again, of something I didn't say and here I am trying to fix your misunderstanding...

 

I said exactly what I said, nothing else. I did not say they aren't a big deal, I said they are c**p because they don't protect as much as we were told they would and the pandemic is not over like they said it would be.

And you must be out of your mind to say that you understood that I said getting sick is better than getting vaccinated... I can't even...

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by obnoxious

[Californication | 1,477]

33 minutes ago, obnoxious said:

You did a mea-culpa just to accuse me, again, of something I didn't say and here I am trying to fix your misunderstanding...

I said exactly what I said, nothing else. I did not say they aren't a big deal, I said they are c**p because they don't protect as much as we were told they would and the pandemic is not over like they said it would be.

And you must be out of your mind to say that you understood that I said getting sick is better than getting vaccinated... I can't even..

You said the vaccines are crap and then gave an example of an unrelated vaccine.

Which left your meaning of to why the vaccines are crap open to interpretation based upon the rest of the things you said like, "I stayed home with my wife while she had covid, our routine completly unchanged ... and I didn't even sneeze. Why I'm telling you this? Because, rationally, I didn't have to get the shot. I was already immune, and getting shot would add to the risk of collateral affects."

"No one knows the long term side effects. There are reports that the immune response from vaccines only lasts 6 - 13 months."

Apparently, you don't even know what you said because this:

"because they don't protect as much as we were told they would and the pandemic is not over like they said it would be" is not what you said.

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

Given a legitimate reason (immunocompromised, age, etc.), I absolutely respect one's choice to deny the vaccine.  However, those of us healthy enough to receive it are obligated in order protect those who are unable.  

Yes, at some point heard immunity may be achieved, but those who choose not to contribute are selfish for relying on the vaccinated for heard immunity and are hindering the overall progress.  

It is not a matter of "social disaster" to receive the vaccine, rather the opposite.  The unvaccinated are prolonging the perpetual social disaster caused by the virus in the first place.

[Brickman | 3,983]

1 hour ago, obnoxious said:

It's very comfortable to thrash someone, saying things that aren't true, believing he won't read or respond. But I expected that.

 

Look I don't care if someone disagrees with me and I really meant it, I'm not looking for validation. I did not *start* a debate, I just replied to one and my intention was to point out that people are behaving just like people do before social disasters. I'm not a bit worried about people thrashing me for my opinion not being "the acceptable" or something.

 

I really believe that we will only be able to talk about what we're going through in ten/twenty years. Until then my role is to ask people if they aren't going a little too far when judging other people's choices. 

 

It may be already too late. I said that the vaccines are c**p and someone understood that I'm saying the disease is not a big deal. This is not the kind of debate I'm used to. It's a recipe for flame wars and no one is interested in hearing, just pointing fingers and identifying "the dangerous ones".

 

 You did a mea-culpa just to accuse me, again, of something I didn't say and here I am trying to fix your misunderstanding...

 

I said exactly what I said, nothing else. I did not say they aren't a big deal, I said they are c**p because they don't protect as much as we were told they would and the pandemic is not over like they said it would be.

And you must be out of your mind to say that you understood that I said getting sick is better than getting vaccinated... I can't even...

 

 

 

Well I was going to post that I disagree with pretty much everything you said but you said you put this thread on ignore so there was no point in typing up a response that the user won't read or reply to.

Private businesses and government can choose to not allow unvaccinated people into their business if they choose so. Just as the government can say I can't come back to Australia from South America without my yellow fever vaccine. It helps stop the spread of a virus.

Why should a business have to allow unvaccinated people into their business and risk people's lives that are doing the right thing? If you don't want to get vaccinated then that is a choice you can still make, I don't know of any country that is rounding up citizens and forcing them to get jabbed. But just be aware that the government and businesses can make the call to not allow you to do certain things.

Also vaccines do protect as much as we were told and some could possibly be even better. They aren't going to be a 100% especially because when they were made variants like Delta weren't around. Even with Delta they're still doing well though. Also no vaccine can be guaranteed to be 100% no doubts about it protection, you can still get COVID but the effects are much lighter which could mean life and death to some people. Worth it imo.

I do feel sorry for your country because your president has been influenced by the Trump mantra and the anti-vaxxer talking points. My advice is get off youtube, conspiracy theory websites and the such and go look at real data.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

1 hour ago, obnoxious said:

I said exactly what I said, nothing else. I did not say they aren't a big deal, I said they are c**p because they don't protect as much as we were told they would and the pandemic is not over like they said it would be.

They also said that the current vaccine was being tested for the variants that had popped up outside North America. With the vaccine they have created being made for the original, and not the Delta variant.

Atop of that, those who are taking it seriously have stated that it could end if people got vaccinated. Because the belief was that if we reached an overall minimum of 70% herd immunity should kick in. But again, that was when the Delta variant did not cross over to children (and not just those who are selfish enough to vaccinated).

With all of this being public knowledge. And not an excuse for you to be... obnoxious... to those who read what you did post (regardless if you do not believe that was your tone).

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,012]

2 hours ago, obnoxious said:

said exactly what I said, nothing else. I did not say they aren't a big deal, I said they are c**p because they don't protect as much as we were told they would and the pandemic is not over like they said it would be.

Literally reduce hospitalizations but hundreds of times and reduce death by thousands of times. What jaded world do you live in that those numbers are crap.

 

And who the fuck censors crap ffs?? Gotta be trolling. 

 

 

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

9 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

So, please indulge me, how, exactly does touching a mask that is properly snugged over your nose and mouth prevent it from stopping moisture droplets from going through it?  Because that's what they're doing, including in the cases of when surgeries are performed--something your doctor fiancee should know and be able to pass on to you.  Surgeons generally aren't worried about breathing in germs and catching something from a patient they're working on--it's the exact opposite.  And since humans expel germs (viral particles, etc.) contained in moisture droplets due to how we work, masks are effective at preventing the person wearing said mask from spreading whatever they have outward (even if dry viral/bacterial/etc. particles might be small enough on their own to pass through the holes in the weave of said mask).

One serious question about the masks, though, since you were all methodical about how they were supposed to be applied (starting with applying them at home, then driving with them on, something that I've never, ever seen recommended during the whole pandemic).  If all you're allowed/supposed to touch are the straps around the ears, how do you conform the metal bar in the top to fit closely around your nose, preventing an air gap there?  Masks are supposed to fit closely around the surface of your face, all the way around, so if you're not bending that nose bar to fit around the bridge of your nose then down your cheekbones, you're basically setting it up to spray particles up and out of the mask every time you breathe, speak, cough, sneeze, etc., ruining their effectiveness.

People get required to wear masks (and the authorities actually do something to help enforce that), and the numbers go down, so obviously something there is working.  If it's not masks keeping everyone's "cooties" to themselves instead of literally spraying them everywhere, for everyone to share, then perhaps a scientific study should be started to figure out exactly what it is that isn't the masks that's causing the numbers to drop so drastically when all of the borderline mask wearers mask up because the local/state/federal government says they have to do so; I'd include "everyone," but we're all pretty much aware that the folks completely against masks haven't worn them, won't when asked (even under a mandate), and likely won't until someone hands them one at gunpoint (severe example, but only one I can think of for some people I know who refuse to wear one even for a couple of minutes).

Just imagine having a science degree and a doctor as a fiancee but still not being able to grasp how masks work to protect everyone.  I'd have mentioned the other personal reference, but politicians (even borderline ones) hold no water to me, and we've all seen what a mess they've made of this pandemic, regardless of where they're from.

People forget that "it's just the flu" is how 1918 started as well, and we all know how that turned out.

Amen.  He didn't care for it when I name dropped him, finally, immediately PM'ing me letting me know "I have no interest in engaging argument with someone regarding politics or vaccines in a VIDEO GAME FORUM".  Mostly knocked it off after that, at least for singling me out, but I guess the nonsense continues?  Seriously, if someone is going to "disagree" with everybody on a point, ON A VIDEO GAME FORUM, they ought to put up or shut up.

How colourful.

Paragraph 1 - By touching your mask, you're potentially contaminating it so instead of breathing in through a clean material, you're breathing in through a contaminated material and ingesting that contaminant. Would you rather breathe through a clean cloth or a dirty sock?

Paragraph 2 - You think the CDC is going to recommend people apply their mask before leaving the house? People touch their face thousands of times per day, it will statistically be safer to tell people to apply them on site with dirty hands than have them constantly touching their filthy hands to their mask. Have you seen people try to smoke / eat / drink with a mask on? People can't go 5 minutes without needing to stuff something into their face. It's the same reason I've never seen a hand washing guide posted anywhere telling people they need to scrub up their forearms but you're also supposed to do that. It's because you can only give the general public so much instruction before people completely ignore it because it's too hard. As long as you make something easy enough, people are more likely to follow it. And I'll agree with  you about the bar, yes you should be touching that after washing your hands, you're right.

Paragraph 3 - I actually don't understand this one, you may have misunderstood what I wrote. I think people covering their face with anything is causing the infection rates to decrease, of course that's true, I don't think it's just masks stopping people from catching it. It totally decreases the amount of spit going through the air and contaminating the listener, we're both agreeing on this. What I wrote is that people seem to think it's protecting themselves and it obviously isn't.

Paragraph 4 - You're quite rude here.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

4 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

How colourful.

You know, by this alone I can just picture you flicking dust off an ascot and grimacing at having to deal with one of those people.  And not someone who disagrees with you, but someone who is quite, quite "beneath" you.  Happy to indulge.

4 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Paragraph 1 - By touching your mask, you're potentially contaminating it so instead of breathing in through a clean material, you're breathing in through a contaminated material and ingesting that contaminant. Would you rather breathe through a clean cloth or a dirty sock?

And...you're going to be potentially breathing in your own germs, that are already on you, as a result?  You do the same damned thing by not wearing a mask at all versus the above outcome that you seem horrified at someone creating just by touching it while putting it on.  Whatever's on my hands is in one way or another going to end up on my face, hence my carrying of hand sanitizer at all times when I'm outside of the house and frequently, and liberally applying it during such jaunts.  Washing my hands while within the house is the best I can do and hope for, as I have children, so keeping things as absolutely sterile as you seem to imagine it's possible to do so is a pipe dream at best and totally laughable at worst.

4 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Paragraph 2 - You think the CDC is going to recommend people apply their mask before leaving the house? People touch their face thousands of times per day, it will statistically be safer to tell people to apply them on site with dirty hands than have them constantly touching their filthy hands to their mask. Have you seen people try to smoke / eat / drink with a mask on? People can't go 5 minutes without needing to stuff something into their face. It's the same reason I've never seen a hand washing guide posted anywhere telling people they need to scrub up their forearms but you're also supposed to do that. It's because you can only give the general public so much instruction before people completely ignore it because it's too hard. As long as you make something easy enough, people are more likely to follow it. And I'll agree with  you about the bar, yes you should be touching that after washing your hands, you're right.

The CDC specifically recommended against people wearing masks while operating vehicles due to the claims by many that they somehow caused issues with being able to breathe, so yeah, I don't see the CDC ever publicly or super-double-secret-probation-pinky-swearing doing so either.  Once again, hand sanitizer to the rescue!  But again, the whole point of the mask ISN'T TO FILTER THE AIR YOU'RE BREATHING IN.  What's it for, you ask?  Well, to keep your own germs (contained in moisture particles we all expel when breathing, speaking, coughing, sneezing, etc.) to ourselves.  While it's possible for any sort of mask the average Joe would have access to have SOME effect at preventing incoming particles from reaching us, there's basically zero things on the market that are going to reliably and anywhere near acceptably do so.  Ever think about why scientists and such entering a hot zone never just put on gask masks and call it good?  Why they all wear contamination suits with self contained air supplies, so they're not having to rely on a filter made by the lowest bidder to maybe, hopefully catch the bug of the week so that they don't pick it up and suddenly start bleeding profusely from every pore, orifice, etc.?

Dude, you're going out into the public, you're not prepping for surgery.  Dousing your hands in a chemical (properly produced hand sanitizer) properly, and frequently enough is good enough to keep all the creepy crawlies off of your digits while you're doing your shopping, stopping for a moment to adjust your mask, etc.  If you were truly in the know about all of this, you'd be far more worried about the entire rest of your body when you go out, as you're prescribing exactly zero steps for preventing all the particles expelled by all those around you from landing on you any and everywhere in the first place, then what to do about them once they're there.  Some unmasked goon coughs up a storm at the end of the aisle you're in in the grocery store.  Guess what, you've most likely got at least some of that on all sorts of parts of you!  What do you do, hold your arms out to your sides while running to the back, looking for a chemical shower to wash it off?  What do you do about the seats in your car once you leave the store with that on you, sit down, and most likely leave something hanging out there?  Do you fully strip at your door once you're inside, sprint to the shower, and scrub down there?  Wipe all the door knobs, path that you ran, fixtures you touched, etc.?  I mean, if you're all about the minutiae and spouting how detailed people need to be, you've skipped a hell of a lot of steps.

4 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Paragraph 3 - I actually don't understand this one, you may have misunderstood what I wrote. I think people covering their face with anything is causing the infection rates to decrease, of course that's true, I don't think it's just masks stopping people from catching it. It totally decreases the amount of spit going through the air and contaminating the listener, we're both agreeing on this. What I wrote is that people seem to think it's protecting themselves and it obviously isn't.

You implied about how masks were pointless, not waxing nostalgic about whether the unmasked protesters understood that their masks protect me and mine protects them.  If you actually understand that people masking up with literally anything, at a minimum, helps to stem the spread, then why aren't you on board requesting or demanding everybody be wearing them until we can get these numbers under control?  Why aren't you, yourself still wearing them?  Don't you care about what you might inadvertently do to someone else?  The early information on what the vaccines did specifically talked about how the fully vaccinated could still become carriers, even if the vaccine prevented them from becoming noticeably sick.  What does that indicate?  That even if you're fully vaccinated, you should still be wearing a mask, lest you bring the bug into grandma and her sisters, even if you feel absolutely, peachy-keen fine.  Anyone listening to the talking heads and politicians about how the vaccinated didn't need to worry about masks anymore didn't pay a damned bit of attention to the fine print in the science and were idiots for not doing so, IMHO.

4 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Paragraph 4 - You're quite rude here.

Well, you were so generally condescending (as you generally seem to be when you post), so I'm happy to oblige.  Anyone who throws around their claims of general "science" knowledge (and especially of those they happen to know) who aren't actually working on the problem open themselves up to mockery since they also only know what information has been released to the public by the various governmental, scientific, and educational institutions.  To assume that someone who doesn't have a science degree or surround themselves with scientists and/or medical professionals somehow isn't intelligent enough to understand, while the touter of such paperwork and friendships is...I'll not offend your delicate ears with the foul words of condemnation I have for such attitudes.

The facts are, people are dirty (we all agree), people shouldn't touch their faces but do so anyway (we all agree), you can't really put on a mask properly without touching more than the ear bits that you declare ok to touch (you disagree), having your own germs from your hands on the front of your mask when you put it on isn't going to harm you (you disagree), and people across the board should still all be wearing their masks in order to prevent the spread (you seem to flip flop on this point per your third response).

Simple thing is, outside of a miracle like what happened to end the Spanish Flu epidemic (that virus mutated into a more contagious but non-deadly variant), things are only going to at least stay the same if the people resisting wearing masks and/or taking the vaccine keep doing what they're doing.  More than likely, things are going to get a lot worse before they ever get better, if they ever get better.  Personally, I still say Stephen King's rebuttal of people saying this whole thing looking a lot like The Stand was out of line and premature, as things have only steadily gotten worse as time has passed and mass ignorance has grown.

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

22 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

You know, by this alone I can just picture you flicking dust off an ascot and grimacing at having to deal with one of those people.  And not someone who disagrees with you, but someone who is quite, quite "beneath" you.  Happy to indulge.

  I'm sorry I gave you that impression. I have a mental disorder that causes me to be socially awkward.

22 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

And...you're going to be potentially breathing in your own germs, that are already on you, as a result?  You do the same damned thing by not wearing a mask at all versus the above outcome that you seem horrified at someone creating just by touching it while putting it on.  Whatever's on my hands is in one way or another going to end up on my face, hence my carrying of hand sanitizer at all times when I'm outside of the house and frequently, and liberally applying it during such jaunts.  Washing my hands while within the house is the best I can do and hope for, as I have children, so keeping things as absolutely sterile as you seem to imagine it's possible to do so is a pipe dream at best and totally laughable at worst.

  Not my germs, the germs I pick up from my environment and then get on my mask by touching it. And I think I gave you the wrong impression and may now understand the cause of your anger but I never stated I don't wear masks. I wear masks every time I go out and don't disagree with any mask rules currently in place. I also attempt to give people 2 metres of space but people are so blatantly stupid most of the time that they just squeeze past me before I can maneuver myself to give them 2 metres. I try and follow every rule possible, I even tell people they're going the wrong way down the aisle in the grocery store......right before they tell me to go fuck myself. So I'm not sure if you confused me with someone else, I'm not against masks.

22 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Once again, hand sanitizer to the rescue!

I've had this debate with people many times before also, sanitizer doesn't clean your hands, it simply sanitizes them. All that filth is still on your hands and being applied to your mask when touching your face. So now you have sanitized filth on your face, good for you.

  

22 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

You implied about how masks were pointless

No I didn't but I may have given you the wrong impression. I couldn't have implied that, I wear masks every day.

  

22 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Well, you were so generally condescending (as you generally seem to be when you post)

I'm sorry I gave you that impression, see point number 1.

  

22 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

 To assume that someone who doesn't have a science degree or surround themselves with scientists and/or medical professionals somehow isn't intelligent enough to understand

Dude......relax. I simply stated my references that I wasn't getting my information from Facebook. I have first hand knowledge a lot of people don't have.

I really think the cause of your anger is that you think I'm against masks or something, I never wrote that.

[Link | 2,709]

23 hours ago, obnoxious said:

and the pandemic is not over like they said it would be.

….because too many people won’t mask/vax/distance. Not because vax is crap. 

 

[Tulpa | 3,492]

Oof.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/21/us/covid-vaccine-billboard-funeral-home-ad-agency-trnd/index.html

 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

2 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Oof.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/21/us/covid-vaccine-billboard-funeral-home-ad-agency-trnd/index.html

 

I mean, it's absolutely harsh, but I love it.  The message won't get across, but hey, it rubs their faces in it like mad, which is fantastic.  (As you can tell, I've given up hope on anything getting through to the crazies who believe one or more conspiracy theories about all this, and how that relates to them refusing to be vaccinated.)

[Shawn | 31]

9 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Oof.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/21/us/covid-vaccine-billboard-funeral-home-ad-agency-trnd/index.html

 

 

Thanks! Just sent that to pretty much everyone I know

 

[Estil | 1,264]

On 9/20/2021 at 4:26 PM, JamesRobot said:

Party on, dude!

Party on Wayne!

Party on Garth!  

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:54 PM, Code Monkey said:

...

Yes, we can force people to wear helmets but that's only if they choose to drive a motorcycle. We don't force them to wear helmets all the time so we shouldn't force people to get the vaccine unless they partake in a related risky action, like travelling internationally.

...

It's not selfish.

I think we should support each other in our own choices, I choose to get the vaccine but I don't choose for anyone else to get it. Just me.

 

On 9/21/2021 at 12:45 AM, Code Monkey said:

Not my germs, the germs I pick up from my environment and then get on my mask by touching it. And I think I gave you the wrong impression and may now understand the cause of your anger but I never stated I don't wear masks. I wear masks every time I go out and don't disagree with any mask rules currently in place. I also attempt to give people 2 metres of space but people are so blatantly stupid most of the time that they just squeeze past me before I can maneuver myself to give them 2 metres. I try and follow every rule possible, I even tell people they're going the wrong way down the aisle in the grocery store......right before they tell me to go fuck myself. So I'm not sure if you confused me with someone else, I'm not against masks.

If one cleans/sanitizes their hands properly, and frequently enough, the germs picked up from the environment shouldn't be of huge concern outside of to folks with some sort of phobia or OCD about such things.  Unless you're literally living in a clean room and a bubble, there's not going to be any avoiding the germs and contaminants in your own environment, so if you aren't scrubbing the skin off your hands all the time while you're at home, you really shouldn't be too concerned about what you might transfer from your hands to your mask when putting one on before going outside, where you could get more, different, potentially deadly germs and contaminants.

Yeah, people suck, but we can all only do the best we can, especially with our various levels of government basically throwing up their hands at or outright shrugging at the situation.  "Supporting each other in our own choices" means you're okey-dokey with the guy/gal with the hackey cough, no mask, and an inability to stay away from you because hey, that's their choice, and it should be respected...right?  Not every choice that someone else makes should be respected, honored, etc.  Perhaps it's somewhat different in Canada, but in the United States (and please don't take this as a 'MURICA statement, because it's really, really not), another person's rights and freedoms END the moment they start to encroach on someone else's.  So all the people refusing to wear masks, or get vaccinated, or stay at least a shopping cart/buggy/whatever the hell away from he when I'm in a store (something I facilitated long before I considered every other person not within my household a germ/toxin factory) are restricting, impeding, trodding upon, etc., the rights of others, right up to, and sometimes including, the right to LIFE.

On 9/21/2021 at 12:45 AM, Code Monkey said:

I've had this debate with people many times before also, sanitizer doesn't clean your hands, it simply sanitizes them. All that filth is still on your hands and being applied to your mask when touching your face. So now you have sanitized filth on your face, good for you.

Since you've stated you're somewhere on the spectrum, this might be an issue for you (or at least folks with OCD, phobias, etc.), but a little dirt, while not preferable, won't actually hurt anyone.  If your hands have been sanitized properly, you could have a shit smear on them, and regardless of how foul we would all consider that, you wouldn't be spreading (live) virii, bacteria, etc., just whatever dirt and debris you ended up with on your hands.  Not optimal, definitely not great in the overboard example I provided, but absolutely, positively within the guidelines of not passing along pathogens.  I'd shake hands with somebody's dirty, nasty, muck dripping hand in a heartbeat if I knew it was sanitized/sterile before I'd ever think about doing so with someone while out and about these days, at least not without them going ahead and sanitizing them right before me (most likely while I did the same, although my normal reaction these days is to go ahead and do so before and after any contact with someone outside of my household.

 

On 9/21/2021 at 12:45 AM, Code Monkey said:

I'm sorry I gave you that impression, see point number 1.

Dude......relax. I simply stated my references that I wasn't getting my information from Facebook. I have first hand knowledge a lot of people don't have.

I really think the cause of your anger is that you think I'm against masks or something, I never wrote that.

Well, now you know for the future what it looks like when you lay out/name drop "reference" in such a manner.  Also, having a "science" degree still doesn't help you in regard to that list of references, as there are plenty of sciences that have zero to do with what's going on in the world today, and thus having a degree in such would lend no actual assistance to understanding what's going on beyond what an average, reasonably intelligent, reasonable person would understand upon reviewing the same information.

My anger at this point is against any- and everyone who refuses to do the simple things that have been asked of us to help stem and prevent the spread of this disease, as well as anyone who makes excuses for them.  I myself have had some level of understanding how some people could end up uncertain about things, what with how the various governments and agencies have opted many times to politicize things versus keeping them purely factual, scientific, and for the health and good of the general public.  I still don't agree with those people, and I still think poorly of them for their indecision, which in many cases has ended up causing them untold heartache and disaster.

I have a wife with a heart condition as well as two kids who are young enough that they cannot be vaccinated.  I live in a US state that tends to be one of the world's hotspots when it comes to spread, with no vast war chest to call upon to just up and move myself somewhere "safe."  The best I can do is repeat myself again and again and again about how people should think about other people (which is absolutely hilarious at having to repeat as often as I do seeing as I live smack damn in the center of the Bible Belt, and these knuckle dragging anti-vaxxers attend church every Sunday withou fail and yet have failed in 10-20-30-40 or more years to actually absorb any of their Messiah's teachings).  And repeat factual information about what's going on, including statistics, how everyone's masks actually work, firsthand details about what people should expect from the vaccine, etc.  Yet still, this crap goes on and on, people want to argue with facts (about how they're somehow not facts, but somehow their sister's mother-in-law's hairdresser knows better than scientists), get into pedantic minutiae, etc.  I'm beyond done with it, and generally, anyone who isn't actively working, however they can, to help end this nightmare.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4300455

A hospital here administered undiluted vaccines to 25 people here..