Cinemassacre's deep analysis on TMNT1

[themisfit138 | 523]

23 hours ago, Sumez said:

It's a fun and original platform game, and I never met anyone who had any issue with it until secondhand opinions suddenly started spawning from that original AVGN video.

Of course, the game does have its slew of issues. The fact that all the other turtles are clearly inferior to Donatello (and end up serving as HP fodder) is silly, and the final stage is just a study in absolutely awful game design. Stop up and actually try to fight anything and you'll be punished much harder than you do if you just hightail it through the chaos.

But as with most other semi-janky NES games, there's a consistent way to approach those issues that actually works in the context of the game, and although it clearly could have been better, there's no way I could ever call TMNT a bad game in good faith.

That is just the way of Turtles games up through Turtles in Time and Hyperstone Heist. Don and Leo are the best Turtles. You use Raf and Mike for the cheesy enemy stages to save hp on Don and Leo.  

With TMNT I never heard any of my friends call it a bad game back in the day. Only the modern internet crowd labeled it as such. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by themisfit138

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

You guys need to understand that even on the unscripted videos these guys are playing a "part" and playing up certain aspects of their personalities. So on James and Mike Mondays when Mike loses it, keep in mind they are still trying to be funny and get views. you ever laugh your ass off when your friend can't pull something off in a game? It's pretty funny. 

Also, James actually isn't bad at games from what I've seen, but part of AVGN is making a mountain out of a molehill so of course he's going to embellish things when he makes the video. It's part of the act. 

Finally keep in mind that this is all their opinions, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to get upset at what they have to say.

[Californication | 1,477]

Mike >James

[Quest4Nes | 376]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

Mike >James

at games? yea not even close. James is ok at some games but pretty meh overall player. Mike is good at games. But Mike personality wise is rather dull. He needs someone else to feed off of to make it work.

[mbd39 | 2,020]

26 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said:

at games? yea not even close. James is ok at some games but pretty meh overall player. Mike is good at games. But Mike personality wise is rather dull. He needs someone else to feed off of to make it work.

James isn't even a gamer. He's more like a filmmaker who developed a popular character and now he sometimes has to play games as a result. Mike is the real AVGN.

 

 

[Chevmatic | 12]

Loved this game growing up, and hated to see it as one of the first that was on the AVGN's chopping block. Really glad to see they gave it some redemption, and even changed Kirin's opinion of it just over the coarse of the review.

[themisfit138 | 523]

Like, I tried to like, watch this like, video, or like whatever. But, I like, just, like, couldn’t, make it through, like, you know. 

[Splain | 2,569]

I like old AVGN videos, but I don't care much for modern Cinemassacre stuff. I can't stand Mike, maybe because of his old racist comic strip stuff. Even modern AVGN videos seem to focus more on the filmmaking than the games. I get that James loves the filmmaking, but I just want to see him complain about old bad games. Maybe he ran out of bad games?

[Sumez | 2,949]

54 minutes ago, themisfit138 said:

Like, I tried to like, watch this like, video, or like whatever. But, I like, just, like, couldn’t, make it through, like, you know. 

prolly

[Tanooki | 4,933]

12 hours ago, buttheadrulesagain said:

I had both TMNT1 and 2 as a kid, and I do agree with them that 2 is not great (3 is a little better, but still it's pretty much beat a lot of Foot Soldiers). I mean, it was as close as we could get to the arcade game in our homes, but I almost never played it alone because it is super repetitive. I played TMNT1 more, as it has a little bit more of variety and exploring. Not a great game, not terrible. It was ok.

TMNT 2 was one of the most basic beat'em ups (in contrast, the Double Dragon NES games allowed for more ways to kill enemies, pick up weapons, platforming, etc). It did not pay to use the normal attack since the second attack to kill the foot soldiers never hit right after the first one. I went all the game using the double attack, and kicks. Bosses, kicks left to right until they are dead. The game's backgrounds are mostly barebones and boring (at least Manhattan Project added more colors and some stage hazzards).

To each their own but the NES game was fairly close to the arcade as much as the hardware allowed, yet like doubled the stages so I played it a lot, mostly alone, and I couldn't get enough always wanting to get a bit further, not having to use continues, etc.  TMNT3 was solid too, some ways it was a little improved.

[RH | 4,903]

I've never been a fan of the AVGN shtick but I have to compliment the general team for one thing--they've called out the "elephants in the room" when it comes to great games of our childhoods that, well... maybe weren't THAT great.

I think part of the humor and making their point is to look at the flaws in a game, point at it, yell at it and declare "IT SUUUUUUUUCKS".  No, I don't think anyone should have walked away from TMNT after they made that AVGN video years ago ,and thought "well, they changed my mind.  My favorite childhood game did suck and now I hate it!"  I don't think that's their intent.  For their older stuff, I usually got the impression that they wanted people to re-think their memories, and they had fun making the point that those games were hard and aren't as timeless as we'd like to hope.

It can be to crass for my taste, but I have watched many, specific videos and enjoyed the analysis by understanding the way they've made their point.  That said, that doesn't mean that just because a game was on AVGN means that it's not worth picking up and giving it a try if you've never played it before.  In many cases, especially for the NES, you just need to realize that you might have to take a HUGE dose of nostalgia for something you've never played, and expect it to be old-school hard, and confusing at times.

Of course, AVGN has also reviewed their share of truly awful games and even many of the NES title were absolutely horrible.  That said, I don't think the intent of the AVGN crew has been to single out just those really bad games. I think they started out wanting to get people to see their old, cherished titles in a new light and question if they are as "perfect" we like to think they were when we put them on our personal pedestals. I can respect that.

[DarkTone | 984]

I've seen the video of AVGN give out about Back to the future on the NES, and a different Youtuber explain why the game is the way it is. 

AVGN is the character, James is (was) the content creator. So it's cool to see his take on certain games, but I distance myself to not take it seriously. 

[Jono1874 | 144]

On 12/5/2019 at 5:42 PM, CMR said:

I would rather people get their info from Mike and James than Pat and Ian. 

Say what you will about Mike Matei regarding his behavior, but that guy is the most passionate about gaming on the entire internet. He knows his stuff.

[CMR | 519]

23 hours ago, Jono1874 said:

Say what you will about Mike Matei regarding his behavior, but that guy is the most passionate about gaming on the entire internet. He knows his stuff.

Mike Matei has really grown on me.  I used to just see him as a hanger on of james's, but then he did that stream where he played Jekyl and Hyde till he beat it.  Color me impressed. 

[AstralSoul | 502]

I liked the video a lot. I always liked TMNT1 even though I never got that far. The video made me want to go back and try it again. And with the tips they talked about in the video, I actually got the furthest I've ever gotten. Still a frustrating game but not a bad one.

[MegaMan52 | 2,444]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 7:09 AM, themisfit138 said:

That is just the way of Turtles games up through Turtles in Time and Hyperstone Heist. Don and Leo are the best Turtles. You use Raf and Mike for the cheesy enemy stages to save hp on Don and Leo.  

With TMNT I never heard any of my friends call it a bad game back in the day. Only the modern internet crowd labeled it as such. 

That may be true in the first one and (to a lesser extent) Turtles in Time, but not the others. In Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game,  they're all basically the same. In Manhattan Project, Raphael is the best Turtle. The Turtle Drill is easily the most useful special attack.

[Sumez | 2,949]

On 12/7/2019 at 9:06 PM, Jono1874 said:

Say what you will about Mike Matei regarding his behavior, but that guy is the most passionate about gaming on the entire internet. He knows his stuff.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,104]

2 hours ago, MegaMan52 said:

That may be true in the first one and (to a lesser extent) Turtles in Time, but not the others. In Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game,  they're all basically the same. In Manhattan Project, Raphael is the best Turtle. The Turtle Drill is easily the most useful special attack.

That's my favorite game of the three NES titles. Giving the turtles their own special attacks made it better to me than the second one along with it being a completely original game.

[Rooster | 124]

On 12/7/2019 at 1:08 AM, mbd39 said:

James isn't even a gamer. He's more like a filmmaker who developed a popular character and now he sometimes has to play games as a result. Mike is the real AVGN.

 

 

I feel that a lot of people miss this fact.  James is a filmmaker who plays games, not the other way around.  Unless he has done research for an AVGN episode, he almost never delves deep into the internet to dig up facts about games.  He usually just talks about his own personal experiences with various games.

[Estil | 1,264]

Aren't his reviews of TMNT and Zelda 2 mostly revisonist history though?  I mean no one seemed to have a problem with either game when they came out...in fact (and I can't believe hardly anyone mentions this) the graphics in Zelda 2 are spectacular and the game is huge.  You sure do get your money's worth on that one!

Even so, even when the game had just came out (sadly I could only afford to rent it once in awhile) I did find it really odd why it was much harder to get the Turtles to swim compared to Mario...I mean didn't Donatello once say that water is their natural habitat?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Estil

[CMR | 519]

Whatever you guys do, don't watch the latest video.

[Estil | 1,264]

10 minutes ago, CMR said:

Whatever you guys do, don't watch the latest video.

Too late I did.  I will admit that central hub in the third temple of MM with the strong currents really was frustrating the first couple times I played it.  But with experience you do learn how to utilize the owl statues' warp capabilities and you really do need to use the Inverted Song of Time to have any realistic chance of getting the Stray Fairies in the 3rd/4th temples.  As for the common complaint of there being "only" four temples....TBH the part of getting to the temple and striking the nearby owl statue so you can go to it whenever you want can be just as if not more complicated/challenging than the temple itself.  Also the AVGN forgets to mention the Bomber's Notebook, which is most helpful for keeping track of sidequests and which ones you finished.

One thing I would've liked to have seen in the 3DS remake is being able to have a bigger bank account and more goodies for reaching certain thresholds.

[Sumez | 2,949]

2 hours ago, Estil said:

Aren't his reviews of TMNT and Zelda 2 mostly revisonist history though?

I feel like 90% of videos on "older" games on the internet are revisionist history.

Imagine being from a younger generation, having an interest in these games, and getting all your information from YouTube.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

10 hours ago, Estil said:

Aren't his reviews of TMNT and Zelda 2 mostly revisonist history though? 

He didn't knock Zelda II. In fact, up front he said, "Zelda II sucks? I thought it was pretty good. But it's a mixed feelings kind of thing."

[CMR | 519]

BITD nobody saw these games as bad just hard.  Those are still my feelings toward them.  If the kiddies need the real scoop on the old games they should just come here so us old fogies can set them strait. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by CMR