Cinemassacre's deep analysis on TMNT1

[buttheadrulesagain | 41]

I really liked this one. It is a long video, but check it out. Mike Mattei really does a good job, and as an owner of this game from my childhood (one of the few I mastered), I can relate to a lot of things that they say in this video.
 

 

[Sumez | 2,949]

"cinemassacre" and "deep analysis" are two terms that I have a hard time combining in my brain  

But since AVGN is the primary source of the modern interpretation that TMNT was a terrible game, it's at least good to see them try to make good on it. I've heard James on multiple occasions say that he never disliked the game. AVGN is just a fictional comedy character, and people tend to forget that.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Sumez

[buttheadrulesagain | 41]

7 hours ago, Sumez said:

"cinemassacre" and "deep analysis" are two terms that I have a hard time combining in my brain  

But since AVGN is the primary source of the modern interpretation that TMNT was a terrible game, it's at least good to see them try to make good on it. I've heard James on multiple occasions say that he never disliked the game. AVGN is just a fictional comedy character, and people tend to forget that.

 

Well, they devote more than half an hour to this, so they are capable of doing such things  . They have other similar longer videos on other games.

[Nintegageo | 582]

Probably my most popular thread on NA was regarding this game being good. Enjoyed the video and did not know about some strategies mentioned. Awesome.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

It's a decent game with some interesting gameplay features, but it also has some annoying aspects as well.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

1 hour ago, Nintegageo said:

Probably my most popular thread on NA was regarding this game being good. Enjoyed the video and did not know about some strategies mentioned. Awesome.

Yea I was in that thread defending the game to lots of people who claimed it was trash. I really enjoyed the Cinemassacre video.

[Jicsan | 589]

I always liked the first TMNT game.  It's NES hard, but when you are a kid you have the free time to bang your head against the wall until you break through.  I always defend this game, and Castlevania 2, when it comes up how much it "sucks".

[Sumez | 2,949]

It's a fun and original platform game, and I never met anyone who had any issue with it until secondhand opinions suddenly started spawning from that original AVGN video.

Of course, the game does have its slew of issues. The fact that all the other turtles are clearly inferior to Donatello (and end up serving as HP fodder) is silly, and the final stage is just a study in absolutely awful game design. Stop up and actually try to fight anything and you'll be punished much harder than you do if you just hightail it through the chaos.

But as with most other semi-janky NES games, there's a consistent way to approach those issues that actually works in the context of the game, and although it clearly could have been better, there's no way I could ever call TMNT a bad game in good faith.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Sumez

[RH | 4,903]

6 hours ago, Sumez said:

"cinemassacre" and "deep analysis" are two terms that I have a hard time combining in my brain  

But since AVGN is the primary source of the modern interpretation that TMNT was a terrible game, it's at least good to see them try to make good on it. I've heard James on multiple occasions say that he never disliked the game. AVGN is just a fictional comedy character, and people tend to forget that.

Correct. This is the same guy who did an "Angry" review on Chex Quest and couldn't find anything wrong with it. Now, I'm not saying that Chex Quest was a bad game. I think why it's become a cult classic is because for what it was, it was a great game.  But to beat down childhood classics for years and then turn around and say "I have no complaints about this game, so let me just meet my curse-quota", it's obvious the guy is just making content to get attention.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

2 minutes ago, RH said:

Correct. This is the same guy who did an "Angry" review on Chex Quest and couldn't find anything wrong with it. Now, I'm not saying that Chex Quest was a bad game. I think why it's become a cult classic is because for what it was, it was a great game.  But to beat down childhood classics for years and then turn around and say "I have no complaints about this game, so let me just meet my curse-quota", it's obvious the guy is just making content to get attention.

I mean... that's his whole schitck... lol

Also it wasn't the "AVGN" doing the deep analysis, it was Mike Matei some of the production people having a regular non scripted discussion about the game. It's very much two different things.

[Sumez | 2,949]

I have no issue with James in person, he's a likable and modest guy. (Mike, however is just about the opposite, both obnoxious and cringeworthy)

But you really gotta take these guys for what they are. Their primary output nowadays is just videos of them playing random games and discussing them, unscripted, and it really shows they don't really have much of an idea about anything. And that's honestly fine for what they are doing - but when people following them start seeing them as some kind of authority on video games, it gets embarrassing fast.

For a particularly awkward example, look at the video of them trying to play Indiana Jones And The Infernal Machine and universally deciding that it's a terrible and broken game, when the only thing that's terrible is their ability to grasp three dimensional videogames  

EDIT: Just checked out the Chex Quest video, and it's pretty good, and James clearly did his research a lot better than he did in most of his older videos, and doesn't feign ignorance too bad. He's definitely a lot better when he's scripting his content, he really should just stick to that.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Sumez

[WhyNotZoidberg | 585]

I had made the argument on NA that if the first TMNT game didn't have such a popular license, it might have sold poorly and that would have made it to be one of the  more sought after "hidden gems" of today like Blade Force or Shatterhand.

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

I'm the same as Kiersten, I had no idea the Turtles were different besides their weapons. I thought Raphael and Michelangelo were disposable because their weapons sucked and just got in the way of you using Leonardo or Donatello.

[buttheadrulesagain | 41]

9 hours ago, Sumez said:

I have no issue with James in person, he's a likable and modest guy. (Mike, however is just about the opposite, both obnoxious and cringeworthy)

But you really gotta take these guys for what they are. Their primary output nowadays is just videos of them playing random games and discussing them, unscripted, and it really shows they don't really have much of an idea about anything. And that's honestly fine for what they are doing - but when people following them start seeing them as some kind of authority on video games, it gets embarrassing fast.

For a particularly awkward example, look at the video of them trying to play Indiana Jones And The Infernal Machine and universally deciding that it's a terrible and broken game, when the only thing that's terrible is their ability to grasp three dimensional videogames  

EDIT: Just checked out the Chex Quest video, and it's pretty good, and James clearly did his research a lot better than he did in most of his older videos, and doesn't feign ignorance too bad. He's definitely a lot better when he's scripting his content, he really should just stick to that.

Did you watch the TMNT video? it's actually good, and even I, who has played this game for like 30 years now, did not know some things they said there, and they pointed out certain design decisions that resonate to me. I do not particularly like Mike Mattei a lot, but I think he really shines on this one. For comparison, I really disliked him when he reviewed the remake of Ducktales, he sounded too smug.

[twiztor | 850]

Even as a kid, everyone thought this game was fun except for the water level, which virtually nobody could beat. i can see how if that is your only memory of the game then you could think it sucks. 

edit:
i just watched the video. while there's lots of things i agree with, my biggest issue was Mike just defending everything.  "the game's not too hard, you just don't know how to play it". 

Edited December 5, 2019 by twiztor
added thoughts

[Sumez | 2,949]

Even as a kid I never had any problems with the water level, why wouldn't you be able to beat it? Sure it's not a particularly well designed stage, but even if you screw up you can just switch out turtles and tank the damage with someone else. It's also so early in the on that if you don't get through it you've barely seen the game. As a kid me and my friends would usually get stuck hiking around the city trying to look for Splinter.

I have never once heard anyone complain about that stage until AVGN made that video, and suddenly everyone was talking about the same thing

The Technodrome, that's where the game completely falls apart.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Sumez

[CMR | 519]

10 hours ago, Sumez said:

I have no issue with James in person, he's a likable and modest guy. (Mike, however is just about the opposite, both obnoxious and cringeworthy)

But you really gotta take these guys for what they are. Their primary output nowadays is just videos of them playing random games and discussing them, unscripted, and it really shows they don't really have much of an idea about anything. And that's honestly fine for what they are doing - but when people following them start seeing them as some kind of authority on video games, it gets embarrassing fast.

For a particularly awkward example, look at the video of them trying to play Indiana Jones And The Infernal Machine and universally deciding that it's a terrible and broken game, when the only thing that's terrible is their ability to grasp three dimensional videogames  

EDIT: Just checked out the Chex Quest video, and it's pretty good, and James clearly did his research a lot better than he did in most of his older videos, and doesn't feign ignorance too bad. He's definitely a lot better when he's scripting his content, he really should just stick to that.

I would rather people get their info from Mike and James than Pat and Ian. 

[Rooster | 124]

I have listened to people complain about the AVGN and Cinemassacre videos on NA for years.  I never really understood all the hate.  I get that James isn't really great at games, but he is really entertaining to listen to.  Personally I am more interested in listening to their relatable experiences and thoughts on games than I am in listening to someone no-life a bunch of video games.  If I wanted to hear about how much better someone is at a game, I would just go watch speedrunners instead. 

I have heard that Mike Matei isn't a very good person, and in some of the James and Mike Mondays videos you will occasionally see him snap at James.  For example, in one episode when they were playing a castlevania game, I believe, James tells him "Get the key!"  and Mike screams back "I cant get the fucking key!"  Which seemed uncalled for.  Moments like that are kind of off-putting.  I believe there were other similar moments, but that one stood out to me.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

I'm not sure how this video was considered well thought out.  Burnout on the right there says anything before SNES Turtles was a cheap imitation and garbage that didn't get it right.  Then the other to his left, not much better saying it was awful unless with friends for the same stuff.  I don't see where reality crosses actual effort and makes me wonder are either old enough to have done them in the day, or are they just not good at old 8bit games much.

What gets me is somehow the original non-brawling TMNT was the best of the lot.  Yet not?  I mean it's not bad, it has some bad moments where it's overly picky, and a few well known documented spots that are true design trouble areas, but it's not overall bad.  The host moves the conversation well into the little understood things that if you got them show the game had a lot more going for it.  I got the game along with Fester some Christmas in the day from my uncle and I put both to bed back in the day and enjoyed both, and both were hard, but not unfair hard.  The conclusion in the end I agree with, it's not a bad game, it does not suck, it's just hard, and people need to learn to play it and stop dumping on the title.  I can get the why behind it, there are some odd design choices for sure, and it's not some straight forward final fight style brawler, so it could be at turn off, but a turn off isn't a bad game.

[buttheadrulesagain | 41]

7 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I'm not sure how this video was considered well thought out.  Burnout on the right there says anything before SNES Turtles was a cheap imitation and garbage that didn't get it right.  Then the other to his left, not much better saying it was awful unless with friends for the same stuff.  I don't see where reality crosses actual effort and makes me wonder are either old enough to have done them in the day, or are they just not good at old 8bit games much.

What gets me is somehow the original non-brawling TMNT was the best of the lot.  Yet not?  I mean it's not bad, it has some bad moments where it's overly picky, and a few well known documented spots that are true design trouble areas, but it's not overall bad.  The host moves the conversation well into the little understood things that if you got them show the game had a lot more going for it.  I got the game along with Fester some Christmas in the day from my uncle and I put both to bed back in the day and enjoyed both, and both were hard, but not unfair hard.  The conclusion in the end I agree with, it's not a bad game, it does not suck, it's just hard, and people need to learn to play it and stop dumping on the title.  I can get the why behind it, there are some odd design choices for sure, and it's not some straight forward final fight style brawler, so it could be at turn off, but a turn off isn't a bad game.

I had both TMNT1 and 2 as a kid, and I do agree with them that 2 is not great (3 is a little better, but still it's pretty much beat a lot of Foot Soldiers). I mean, it was as close as we could get to the arcade game in our homes, but I almost never played it alone because it is super repetitive. I played TMNT1 more, as it has a little bit more of variety and exploring. Not a great game, not terrible. It was ok.

TMNT 2 was one of the most basic beat'em ups (in contrast, the Double Dragon NES games allowed for more ways to kill enemies, pick up weapons, platforming, etc). It did not pay to use the normal attack since the second attack to kill the foot soldiers never hit right after the first one. I went all the game using the double attack, and kicks. Bosses, kicks left to right until they are dead. The game's backgrounds are mostly barebones and boring (at least Manhattan Project added more colors and some stage hazzards).

Edited December 6, 2019 by buttheadrulesagain

[buttheadrulesagain | 41]

8 hours ago, Rooster said:

I have listened to people complain about the AVGN and Cinemassacre videos on NA for years.  I never really understood all the hate.  I get that James isn't really great at games, but he is really entertaining to listen to.  Personally I am more interested in listening to their relatable experiences and thoughts on games than I am in listening to someone no-life a bunch of video games.  If I wanted to hear about how much better someone is at a game, I would just go watch speedrunners instead. 

I have heard that Mike Matei isn't a very good person, and in some of the James and Mike Mondays videos you will occasionally see him snap at James.  For example, in one episode when they were playing a castlevania game, I believe, James tells him "Get the key!"  and Mike screams back "I cant get the fucking key!"  Which seemed uncalled for.  Moments like that are kind of off-putting.  I believe there were other similar moments, but that one stood out to me.

James is one of the most likeable youtubers, ever. Mike, well... he has his moments (and has done great characters like the Cowardly Lion, the Joker, Bugs Bunny), and I understand he plays a key part in AVGN scripts. He will never beat James as the host, though.

I agree that AVGN hate in NA is uncalled for. I think that even the latest videos are great and funny (like the Pepsiman one, great surprise to have that guest star). James has not intended AVGN to be 100% accurate with info, it's always been about the rage, the exaggeration over small details, the potty humor... And I like it a lot.

[Sumez | 2,949]

1 hour ago, Rooster said:

I have listened to people complain about the AVGN and Cinemassacre videos on NA for years.  I never really understood all the hate.  I get that James isn't really great at games, but he is really entertaining to listen to.  Personally I am more interested in listening to their relatable experiences and thoughts on games than I am in listening to someone no-life a bunch of video games.

I'd like to go on record and say that I have absolutely zero against AVGN. I loved the show when it first started, and I still have a fondness for James' character. I'm glad he's starting to make more videos against after the big break around the making of his movie.
When I do have issues, it's when it's being put on a pedestal as something it's not, and when people get their "opinions" on video games from watching internet shows like this.

Mike of course, is a different matter. Cinemassacre would be better off if he wasn't involved.

[DarkTone | 984]

Mike owes everything to James. 

[Rooster | 124]

I sometimes actually wonder what Mike's place is in the videos outside of James and Mike Mondays?  He doesn't seem to know a lot about film, which is a large part of what James does with the channel now.  He also doesn't seem to do a lot with AVGN aside from editing.  Is he basically like James' manager or something?

[BortLicensePlate | 652]

Watched the video, thought it was entertaining for the most part. Not sure I'd call it a deep analysis of the game though, it's more Mike trying to defend the game and talk about his experiences with it. I agree though, it's a great game. Would play that over the nes beat em ups anyday