Game Debate #150: Super Mario Bros. 3 (super cereal this time)

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

3 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Tulpa's Dad: Why is this Nintender box on? That's a waste of electricity.

*unplug*

 

Tulpa next day: BIG SAD

I remember leaving the Nintendo on before going to bed and praying my dad wouldn't notice and turn it off at night so I could wake up to continue my game. 

[Tulpa | 3,516]

I also lived in an area where thunderstorms and subsequent power outages were not uncommon. At least once a year, sometimes several.

In addition to losing power, there would be surges. I never lost an NES to a surge, but my cousin did. I wasn't there for it, but apparently it completely fried. He had to wait until the following Christmas to get another one, and didn't get any other presents that year. 1990 was a bleak year for him.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Tulpa

[JamesRobot | 5,806]

I would always turn the Nintendo sideways or put something in front of it to block the red light.  Worked every time.

[RH | 4,918]

I always heard around the school playground that leaving your Nintendo on all night and day was bad for it.

Cone to think of it, I don’t know if that’s true but none of us ever left it on over night except for the extreme circumstance like when one kid was about to beat Battletoads.

[Tulpa | 3,516]

They were pretty robust, so leaving them on for even a few days wouldn't do much. Maybe if you left it on for months and months at a time it might cook it some, but they're pretty tough little boxes otherwise.

[JamesRobot | 5,806]

I beat every level in SMB3 for Mar10 day this year and left it on for a week straight.  Well my AVS anyway.  Pretty much the same thing.

[wongojack | 217]

I've just never appreciated the series.  Covered it in my comments about SMB:  

 

[cj_robot | 543]

My daughter is upset that you can't play as Princess Peach like you can in SMB2.

Sad little girl = 0/10

[docile tapeworm | 4,203]

1 hour ago, JamesRobot said:

Big FAT 10.

Just leave the Nintendo on.

If you never left your Nintendo on for at least a day your a poser who bought a toploader post 2010 and think it’s awesome.

It was a right of passage and as fondly remembered as a flashing 12:00 on the vcr.

Edited April 20, 2023 by docile tapeworm

[Reed Rothchild | 9,548]

@Bearcat-Doug Meerkat, where you at?

[Tanooki | 4,937]

2 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

Big FAT 10.

All 3 Super Marios Bros are 10s for that matter.  Sure, battery save woulda been nice, but you don't need it.  Just leave the Nintendo on.

That or abuse the warp zones, even SMB3.  Sure your score won't roll over...and?  Make a plan.  Clear world 1 and get those two whistles.  That's all you need.  Play the first set of worlds, then the second set, and in the end double whistle to the last.  If you can put an hour or two aside given lack of ability to just crush the game most would have (then or now) who don't just endlessly replay it it's a workable solution.

All you need really is World 1-2 and grind out 50 lives or so, hit 1-3 and castle for the whistles and go for it.

[phart010 | 1,707]

2 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

I would always turn the Nintendo sideways or put something in front of it to block the red light.  Worked every time.

Same here

[Jynx | 140]

I voted a 6. It's a good game that I play once every few years, but I like the first and second games better and play them many times every year. It may not be the popular point of view, but why should that be a problem? ^_^

Mario 3 is a programming masterpiece, and a wonder to come out on an NES. It's a very good an important game, but if it's just for personal preference, it's not one of my favourite Mario games. It's too long and too easy, so I often get bored halfway through and turn it off. It's not a bad game, but I don't find it very exciting or interesting to play unless many years have gone by.

Please don't be mad though. As our parents all said at one point, "It's just a game!" ^_^

[Dr. Morbis | 2,090]

36 minutes ago, Jynx said:

It's too long and too easy, so I often get bored halfway through and turn it off.

There's your problem right there: the game doesn't actually start to get challenging until you hit the clouds in World 5 (the half way point of the game) - everything before that is essentially baby mode.

Get two whistles on World 1 and warp immediately to World 7 with only a couple men in reserve and no items and tell me again this game is too easy...  

[Sumez | 2,967]

3 hours ago, Tulpa said:

They were pretty robust, so leaving them on for even a few days wouldn't do much. Maybe if you left it on for months and months at a time it might cook it some, but they're pretty tough little boxes otherwise.

I've accidentally left my top loader on for weeks on end in the past, due to it not having any LED power indicator.

[Jynx | 140]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

There's your problem right there: the game doesn't actually start to get challenging until you hit the clouds in World 5 (the half way point of the game) - everything before that is essentially baby mode.

Get two whistles on World 1 and warp immediately to World 7 with only a couple men in reserve and no items and tell me again this game is too easy...  

The later levels are harder, but still easy. Super Mario 3 is a very good game for simple fun. I've played the game all the way through enough times to know it is too easy even in the later stages. Some of my favourite NES games are favourites like Castlevania III, Super C, Startropics, Batman, and Ninja Gaiden series, so Mario 3 is not hard in comparison.

[Sumez | 2,967]

Yeah if you want to point out flaws in SMB3 I'd say it's essentially the fact that it never tries to pose much of a challenge to the player, offering instead a comfortable long casual ride.

But it's still fun to play because the occasional stage can still be somewhat challenging, and yeah I'd agree the clouds part of World 5 is probably the cut-off point here. However, when the game also gives you like 50-100 1ups over the course of a full playthrough, failing a stage feels pretty inconsequential, and with the item bar that you can use on the overworld to take the top off challenges, you can pretty much sail through the game regardless of how well designed the individual challenges is.

Now the item bar is actually pretty cool, because it's pretty much a difficulty selection except its a feature built into the game itself rather than an arbitrary selection up-front which I really don't like. But I also think having it like it is, makes challenging yourself too much of a "self-imposed" challenge, and doesn't really serve much of a purpose when the game is still super easy without it.

 

One of my dream hacks that I might do some day if there's any interest for it at all, would be the "arcade tuned" version of SMB3.

- Basically skip most of the easy stages except from a few of the earlier ones. Either remove warp whistles entirely, or simply keep one and make it able to only skip the first 4 worlds
- Stricter time limit on some of the more generous stages- Getting hit always makes you small mario, like the Japanese version and SMB1
- No items bar on the overworld
- Start with 3 lives instead of 5
- No continuing (if you want to continue/practice, play the original game)
- Skip the stage end card roulette, or at least just remove the 1UP gained from them
- Skip the mushroom houses too
- No extra lives from 100 coins either
- In general, remove most of the easier 1UPs. Keep some secret 1UP mushrooms, but don't allow picking one up again after  adeath

Tuning the game like this would obviously make the game less approachable to kids and the wider audience, removing many of its cool qualities, but it would also be able to rely on the already existing brilliant stage design to create a much more satisfying challenge for more seasoned players. The game still wouldn't be very hard, but a clear would feel like an achievement.

[OptOut | 8,889]

4/10.

Spoiler

 

[Estil | 1,265]

Okay, I gotta ask this and I've been curious about this since 1991 when I got this game for my 11th birthday...what is up with that flickering thing you see above the top left part of the scoreboard?

 

[Sumez | 2,967]

You're linking a two hour video of a complete playthrough. 

Maybe you should specify which "scoreboard" you're talking about, and when in the video it is seen? 

[Estil | 1,265]

1 minute ago, Sumez said:

You're linking a two hour video of a complete playthrough. 

Maybe you should specify which "scoreboard" you're talking about, and when in the video it is seen? 

The bottom part of the screen that shows your score, lives, coins, timer, etc.  You see it (the flickering line thing) continuously throughout the game.

[Sumez | 2,967]

Yeah that's an instance of poorly timed code. The nes has one background layer, so in order to display a static box like that at the bottom of the screen, regardless of how the stage is scrolling, the game needs to set *both* the X and Y axis scroll value on the scanline where the status box begins. On every single frame of the game. 

Or rather, it needs to set it between two scanlines, which leaves only a very strict timing window. Due to the unpredictability of the MMC3's scanline counter (hardware in the cartridge used to help execute the code at the right time), and the complexity of the operation needed, the game was unable to consistently fit it within this window, so since the timing varies slightly on every single frame you'll see the effect flickering constantly. 

 

[Estil | 1,265]

42 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Yeah that's an instance of poorly timed code. The nes has one background layer, so in order to display a static box like that at the bottom of the screen, regardless of how the stage is scrolling, the game needs to set *both* the X and Y axis scroll value on the scanline where the status box begins. On every single frame of the game. 

Or rather, it needs to set it between two scanlines, which leaves only a very strict timing window. Due to the unpredictability of the MMC3's scanline counter (hardware in the cartridge used to help execute the code at the right time), and the complexity of the operation needed, the game was unable to consistently fit it within this window, so since the timing varies slightly on every single frame you'll see the effect flickering constantly. 

Is that the same reason why the stage select screen in MegaMan 3 has that distinctive flickering line between the center-right and lower right corner stage boxes?

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

10/10. One of the top five greatest games of all-time and perfection of the Mario formula.

[AirVillain | 490]

9 hours ago, cj_robot said:

My daughter is upset that you can't play as Princess Peach like you can in SMB2.

Sad little girl = 0/10

LIfe lesson. Toughen up, kid! You can't always get what you want!

Imagine being ten and going to see the OG SMB film. It could have crushed us... but... we were resilient!

 

9 hours ago, docile tapeworm said:

If you never left your Nintendo on for at least a day your a poser who bought a toploader post 2010 and think it’s awesome.

It was a right of passage and as fondly remembered as a flashing 12:00 on the vcr.

Buncha fuckin' POSERS ova heeeeaaaa!!!! 

I leave my NES on 24/7 just because I like seeing the red light. Same with never setting the time on my VCR. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by AirVillain