Game Debate #150: Super Mario Bros. 3 (super cereal this time)

[RH | 4,916]

I feel like anyone not giving this at least a 9 is trolling us, and trying to blow the average to keep a Zelda game as the top-rated game in Reed's list!

Conspiracy!  Illuminati confirmed!!!

10 hours ago, Tulpa said:

They were pretty robust, so leaving them on for even a few days wouldn't do much. Maybe if you left it on for months and months at a time it might cook it some, but they're pretty tough little boxes otherwise.

 

10 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

I beat every level in SMB3 for Mar10 day this year and left it on for a week straight.  Well my AVS anyway.  Pretty much the same thing.

Yeah, I have no idea where this concept came from.  Maybe some kid got confused and was thinking about screen burn in and from their the rumored-truth spread.  I mean, I don't think anyone was playing a mean joke but for us kids back in the late-80s, your NES was your most coveted possession.  You wouldn't want to jeopardize it without a good reason so if someone felt that "leaving your NES for long periods of time may kill it (or maybe kill a game)", none of us would do it.

9 hours ago, docile tapeworm said:

If you never left your Nintendo on for at least a day your a poser who bought a toploader post 2010 and think it’s awesome.

It was a right of passage and as fondly remembered as a flashing 12:00 on the vcr.

Dud, even with the above warnings and concerns I grew up with, you are 100% correct.  Raise your hand if you were ever on your best run, of your favorite game without a save feature and you always started it 5-10 minutes before bed time.  Uuuuugh, man.  We all had those moments where we just couldn't shut it off.  And yes, I do recall kids bragging that they were close to beating some game and we'd doubt them, and then they'd say "No, I left my NES on last night and I hope it's still working when I get home after school!" and we knew they were 100% serious!

[RH | 4,916]

22 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

LIfe lesson. Toughen up, kid! You can't always get what you want!

Imagine being ten and going to see the OG SMB film. It could have crushed us... but... we were resilient!

 

Buncha fuckin' POSERS ova heeeeaaaa!!!! 

I leave my NES on 24/7 just because I like seeing the red light. Same with never setting the time on my VCR. 

Agree on the first part.  Regarding the second and VCRs, I remember that strong light-bluish or green hue that early VCRs once had.  They used VFDs and since those were a form of vacuum tube technology, many of them simply are dying with old age and that old type of tech isn't manufactured any more.  I mean, you can find plenty of working VFDs but they are dropping like flies, and many that do work are just getting weak.

RIP... I really loved that look and because I miss everything from the 80s, I miss seeing that blinking in the living room too.

Edited April 20, 2023 by RH

[mbd39 | 2,025]

Guys, I left my NES on all night  when I was on the last level of Adventure Island beating that game for the "complete every NES game in a year" thread.

When I returned to my game the next day, I was close to beating it, but my NES went dead or something and my screen went to black and I had to start over.

I don't know if it was because I left my NES on, or something else happened. But having to start AI over sucked.

 

[RH | 4,916]

@mbd39 That's interesting.  I mean, I work in tech and with computers and I have a modest understanding of how old and new computer systems work, and essentially, that's what any console is.

I can't think of a reason why that would hurt the NES, but I also can't say that for sure it wouldn't affect something on the system or a game. If our childhood assumptions are correct, or close to it, maybe the real issue has to do with the RAM and leaving it on for prolonged periods of time might corrupt the game RAM.  I mean, that's not damaging the system, but if you had a game crash (like you did) it would feel like you were breaking something.

Maybe this happened to either a few kids, or their buddies (I went to a school near a large military base, so kids were always moving and had stories to tell from all over the US) so maybe that's how the rumor started?

[AirVillain | 490]

14 minutes ago, RH said:

Agree on the first part.  Regarding the second and VCRs, I remember that strong light-bluish or green hue that early VCRs.  They used VFDs and since those were a form of vacuum tube technology, many of them simply are dying with old age and that old type of tech isn't manufactured any more.  I mean, you can find plenty of working VFDs but they are dropping like flies, and many that do work are just getting weak.

RIP... I really loved that look and because I miss everything from the 80s, I miss seeing that blinking in the living room too.

Just grab one and plug it in when you're in the room. 

[AirVillain | 490]

14 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

Guys, I left my NES on all night  when I was on the last level of Adventure Island beating that game for the "complete every NES game in a year" thread.

When I returned to my game the next day, I was close to beating it, but my NES went dead or something and my screen went to black and I had to start over.

I don't know if it was because I left my NES on, or something else happened. But having to start AI over sucked.

 

2 minutes ago, RH said:

@mbd39 That's interesting.  I mean, I work in tech and with computers and I have a modest understanding of how old and new computer systems work, and essentially, that's what any console is.

I can't think of a reason why that would hurt the NES, but I also can't say that for sure it wouldn't affect something on the system or a game. If our childhood assumptions are correct, or close to it, maybe the real issue has to do with the RAM and leaving it on for prolonged periods of time might corrupt the game RAM.  I mean, that's not damaging the system, but if you had a game crash (like you did) it would feel like you were breaking something.

Maybe this happened to either a few kids, or their buddies (I went to a school near a large military base, so kids were always moving and had stories to tell from all over the US) so maybe that's how the rumor started?

 

Having 0 technical knowledge and skills with electronics, here's my take: 

Call that the "NES Ghost". 

Not sure why it happened, but it was ALWAYS a possibility (for us) when we were kids. We knew pretty much ANY game we played there was a chance it could just crap out. 

It happened less and less as I got older. Some in University, some post school living, and not so much now. 

Thinking more about it.... I attribute it to how clean the system/games were. Back when we were kids we were just dirty little savages blowing into the games and leaving them sitting out. No dust covers, of course. HA! Dust covers.... fuck off! Hahaha..... 

So as I got older I actually cleaned the games (Q tips & alcohol in Uni).... then cleaned the system (NES Cleaner post Uni).... then took the system apart and boiled/bent the pins (now) and the system hasn't done that in a long time. 

So I don't know....  maybe it's a connection thing? 

For sure nobody touch that thing. DON'T EVEN WALK NEAR IT!

I remember when I was on a Super C marathon I warned my roommates not to walk into one 1/2 of the livingroom just so I wouldn't have any "mistakes". Ironically, I bumped the system myself around the 15.5 hour mark.  

[docile tapeworm | 4,203]

1989: “I left my nintendo on”

2023: “I used a save state”

[Hammerfestus | 3,858]

I don’t understand how people are dinging this game for not having a save feature.  Sure it would be nice but with the warp whistles it’s totally not necessary.  Don’t give me that but my items and lives line.  Don’t sit there and tell me you actually use any of that stuff to play through this game.       It takes all of five minutes to get the first whistle.

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

Warp whistles do not take you back to your recent game progress.  They also do not retain your inventory.  Warp whistles are great for speeding through the game quickly, but they are NOT a replacement for game saves.  That argument might have worked for SMB, but by the time SMB3 was released, there was no excuse for leaving the save feature out.  

[Hammerfestus | 3,858]

1 minute ago, TDIRunner said:

Warp whistles do not take you back to your recent game progress.  They also do not retain your inventory.  Warp whistles are great for speeding through the game quickly, but they are NOT a replacement for game saves.  That argument might have worked for SMB, but by the time SMB3 was released, there was no excuse for leaving the save feature out.  

If you are that concerned about your score then that just sounds nit picky.  Leave the system on or finish the game in one sitting.  Again, I don’t believe for a moment that you are going to use 90% of those items.  Were you gonna jump through giant world in a frog suit?  Or maybe you were going to use the music boxes?

[Tulpa | 3,514]

1 hour ago, RH said:

I feel like anyone not giving this at least a 9 is trolling us, and trying to blow the average to keep a Zelda game as the top-rated game in Reed's list!

Conspiracy!  Illuminati confirmed!!!

Wait until @the_wizard_666 votes. He'll plunge it down.

[RH | 4,916]

Here's a hot take--I think it's a good thing there isn't a save.  This game is kind of on that edge of either being too short to not need a save vs. too long to need one.  If this game did have a battery/save feature, and once you got good at it, people may not complain but there would be a lot of others that would comment that it's too short and they never use a save feature.

I also think had a battery been thrown on this game, a form of warping would have still been in this game.  Warping was part of Mario 1 and even SMW is designed where you can tackle the game in a different order.  SMB3, being in the middle of the two, would very likely have a way to skip enough areas that the game could be beaten in an hour or so.  I just don't see the current game, as it sits, simply needing a save feature, especially once you start getting good at the game.  I think the whistles were a more than fair compromise given that extra hardware in carts equals greater costs and smaller profit margins.

[Hammerfestus | 3,858]

1 minute ago, RH said:

Here's a hot take--I think it's a good thing there isn't a save.  This game is kind of on that edge of either being too short to not need a save vs. too long to need one.  If this game did have a battery/save feature, and once you got good at it, people may not complain but there would be a lot of others that would comment that it's too short and they never use a save feature.

I also think had a battery been thrown on this game, a form of warping would have still been in this game.  Warping was part of Mario 1 and even SMW is designed where you can tackle the game in a different order.  SMB3, being in the middle of the two, would very likely have a way to skip enough areas that the game could be beaten in an hour or so.  I just don't see the current game, as it sits, simply needing a save feature, especially once you start getting good at the game.  I think the whistles were a more than fair compromise given that extra hardware in carts equals greater costs and smaller profit margins.

Oh yeah that reminds me.  I was going to say that the ones that would realistically need a save feature are little kids and having to replay the same first parts over and over is part of the experience of learning to be good at playing the game.

[TDIRunner | 2,744]

3 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

If you are that concerned about your score then that just sounds nit picky.  Leave the system on or finish the game in one sitting.  Again, I don’t believe for a moment that you are going to use 90% of those items.  Were you gonna jump through giant world in a frog suit?  Or maybe you were going to use the music boxes?

Score?  Who is talking about score?  

I understand that SMB3 is one of the most influential games in existence and a favorite for many people.  I also understand that most people don't like to acknowledge the faults in their favorite things.  But the lack of a save feature is a major fault in an otherwise nearly perfect game.  Anyone trying to justify the lack of a save feature in a relatively lengthy first party title released 5 years into the life of the NES is grasping at straws.  It's like listening to Star Wars fans explain plot holes by saying "it's because of the Force."  

Nintendo fans hate admitting that Nintendo makes mistakes, but they make a lot of them and the lack of the save feature on such an important game is certainly near the top of stupid blunders.

[RH | 4,916]

4 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

Nintendo fans hate admitting that Nintendo makes mistakes, but they make a lot of them and the lack of the save feature on such an important game is certainly near the top of stupid blunders.

Even as an early title, Metroid needed a battery.  That was a mistake.  SMB3, no.  It wasn't, but that's my personal opinion.

[Hammerfestus | 3,858]

7 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

Score?  Who is talking about score?  

I understand that SMB3 is one of the most influential games in existence and a favorite for many people.  I also understand that most people don't like to acknowledge the faults in their favorite things.  But the lack of a save feature is a major fault in an otherwise nearly perfect game.  Anyone trying to justify the lack of a save feature in a relatively lengthy first party title released 5 years into the life of the NES is grasping at straws.  It's like listening to Star Wars fans explain plot holes by saying "it's because of the Force."  

Nintendo fans hate admitting that Nintendo makes mistakes, but they make a lot of them and the lack of the save feature on such an important game is certainly near the top of stupid blunders.

I fail to see a major difference, especially one that could be called a top blunder, between warping to level 4 vs saving your game to level 4 other than my smb3 cart leaking battery acid.

[docile tapeworm | 4,203]

4 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

Score?  Who is talking about score?  

I understand that SMB3 is one of the most influential games in existence and a favorite for many people.  I also understand that most people don't like to acknowledge the faults in their favorite things.  But the lack of a save feature is a major fault in an otherwise nearly perfect game.  Anyone trying to justify the lack of a save feature in a relatively lengthy first party title released 5 years into the life of the NES is grasping at straws.  It's like listening to Star Wars fans explain plot holes by saying "it's because of the Force."  

Nintendo fans hate admitting that Nintendo makes mistakes, but they make a lot of them and the lack of the save feature on such an important game is certainly near the top of stupid blunders.

Perhaps not having a save feature is a fault for some.

I’ll just say I never once, as a child (certainly was used to not having a save feature : mm, contra, SMB, adventure island, Mike Tyson, battletoads….we could go on and on) or an adult thought “you know what sucks about this game? Not having a save feature”. 
 

the only game I remember that is even remotely close to smb3 for all time great and has a save feature is zelda.

[Sumez | 2,967]

2 hours ago, Estil said:

Is that the same reason why the stage select screen in MegaMan 3 has that distinctive flickering line between the center-right and lower right corner stage boxes?

Yes. A lot could have been done to prevent that too. Such as not doing it after the screen is already transitioned in

[Webhead123 | 679]

I mean, yeah, giving it anything but a 10/10 would be me just being contrarian. While I know for a fact that I'm not as rabidly enthusiastic for this game as some people and I actually like Super Mario World a few measures more than this one, it's a 10 for sure. I remember how much all the marketing lead up impacted me and I still vividly remember getting my first chance to play it at PowerFest 1990 (World 7-1 was the first stage I attempted). I had my mom and grandma help me sew together a custom Raccoon Mario costume for Halloween that year. And at one of the houses I visited while trick-or-treating, they were playing SMB3 in the living room when I came to the door (they were currently on World 2). That should tell you something right there. On top of all of that, it still plays supremely well even today.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Webhead123

[cj_robot | 543]

2 hours ago, AirVillain said:

LIfe lesson. Toughen up, kid! You can't always get what you want!

Except, my daughter did get what she wanted. SMB2 FTW

Perhaps Nintendo will get it right with Super Mario Bros. 4 (probably not)

[Tulpa | 3,514]

Well, let's not let the thread devolve into another SMB3 saves vs no saves argument again. We've had it many times before, and we're not going to settle it. I mean, I myself have refrained from weighing in, as I don't want the immense bulletproof logic of my arguments to drive away fellow VGSers in shame.

There are two people. Those who think it needs a save, and those who don't (who also smell their own farts.)

15 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

the only game I remember that is even remotely close to smb3 for all time great and has a save feature is zelda.

*Kirby's Adventure reads Skinny's post*

*bursts into tears*

*runs home*

*tears up Skinny's photos*

*deletes Skinny's number in phone*

*blocks Skinny on social media*

*cries into pillow*

[mbd39 | 2,025]

19 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

Perhaps not having a save feature is a fault for some.

I’ll just say I never once, as a child (certainly was used to not having a save feature : mm, contra, SMB, adventure island, Mike Tyson, battletoads….we could go on and on) or an adult thought “you know what sucks about this game? Not having a save feature”. 
 

the only game I remember that is even remotely close to smb3 for all time great and has a save feature is zelda.

MTPO has passwords though. Also the games you list aren't as long as SMB3.

By the time of SNES, longer platformers usually had a save. SMB3 would've had a save had it been on the SNES.

EDIT: Actually SMB3 on the SNES does have saves. So there.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by mbd39

[docile tapeworm | 4,203]

1 minute ago, mbd39 said:

MTPO has passwords though. Also the games you list aren't as long as SMB3.

By the time of SNES, longer platformers usually had a save. SMB3 would've had a save had it been on the SNES.

 

Battletoads not as long as smb3

[docile tapeworm | 4,203]

4 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

 

*Kirby's Adventure reads Skinny's post*

*bursts into tears*

*runs home*

*tears up Skinny's photos*

*deletes Skinny's number in phone*

*blocks Skinny on social media*

*cries into pillow*

Whoa kirbsy babe I still got ya cib on the shelf. And nothing to be ashamed of your a really good game. Let’s not be delusional here and try to compare ourselves to the greatest Nintendo game of all time that’s just masochistic 

[mbd39 | 2,025]

13 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

Battletoads not as long as smb3

Battletoads takes about an hour for a casual playthrough. SMB3 takes that long if you already completely know the game and you're speedrunning it.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by mbd39