Crime & Punishment -- USA Edition

[Tabonga | 2,318]

6 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Was he ever specific about which Sunday?

 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

17 hours ago, avatar! said:

Uvalde cops admit they were too scared of school shooter’s AR-15 ‘battle rifle’

https://nypost.com/2023/03/21/uvalde-cops-were-too-scared-of-shooters-battle-rifle-ar-15/

While mass-shooter training tells officers to risk their lives to immediately try to end the carnage, officers repeatedly admitted they feared being overpowered by the weapon, according to the investigation, which also cited previously unpublished interviews with investigators.

Had anybody gone through that door, he would have killed whoever it was,” Martinez said, justifying the shocking 77-minute delay even as trapped fourth-graders called 911 begging for help.

Officers chose to await the arrival of a Border Patrol SWAT team, even though it was 60 miles away, the investigation noted. At least three of the 21 students and teachers who died were still alive when officers finally stormed in.

At the end of the day, it's clear that most of the officers were ill-prepared, shitting themselves, and purposely did not follow protocol that would certainly have saved innocent lives.

Everybody involved in that fiasco deserves to be fired and made ineligible to be part of any law enforcement or security job ever again, at a minimum.  They're so full of shit it hurts in regard to that quote about anybody going in would have immediately been killed.  Funny how that border patrol guy who took his barber's shotgun managed to barge in and get the guy without an issue, and he didn't remotely have the amount of armor or armament that even the basic police force did.  After this much time has passed, I'm truly surprised that there haven't been any incidents of "street justice" coming for any of these cowards and clowns.

Edited March 24, 2023 by darkchylde28

[fcgamer | 4,724]

15 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Everybody involved in that fiasco deserves to be fired and made ineligible to be part of any law enforcement or security job ever again, at a minimum.  They're so full of shut it hurts in regard to that quote about anybody going in would have immediately been killed.  Funny how that border patrol guy who took his barber's shotgun managed to barge in and get the guy without an issue, and he didn't remotely have the amount of armor or armament that even the basic police force did.  After this much time has passed, I'm truly surprised that there haven't been any incidents of "street justice" coming for any of these cowards and clowns.

Are you ex military or law enforcement? 

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

10 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Are you ex military or law enforcement? 

Nope, neither.  And I'm a reasonable supporter of the original idea of "defund the police" (back when it was about removing excess funds that they were using to buy things like tanks and extra armored vehicles and front-line military gear versus extra officers as needed, better and more training, etc.).

In this case, the entire police force involved failed, and did so very badly, and very publicly.  And yet the blue wall of silence prevails, with everybody refusing to say anything more than what's required to cover the ass of anyone else involved.  They're paid to put themselves into harm's way for the sake and safety of the public, even if it comes to them having to make the ultimate sacrifice.  If they're not able or willing to make that sacrifice when the call comes (which might have been the day this tragedy happened), they never should have put on the uniform and picked up the badge.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

28 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Nope, neither.  And I'm a reasonable supporter of the original idea of "defund the police" (back when it was about removing excess funds that they were using to buy things like tanks and extra armored vehicles and front-line military gear versus extra officers as needed, better and more training, etc.).

In this case, the entire police force involved failed, and did so very badly, and very publicly.  And yet the blue wall of silence prevails, with everybody refusing to say anything more than what's required to cover the ass of anyone else involved.  They're paid to put themselves into harm's way for the sake and safety of the public, even if it comes to them having to make the ultimate sacrifice.  If they're not able or willing to make that sacrifice when the call comes (which might have been the day this tragedy happened), they never should have put on the uniform and picked up the badge.

Sounds like the easy solution to solve this problem would be to pay police higher salaries then, classic situation of you get what you pay for.

Furthermore, armchair experts and all that.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

Sounds like the easy solution to solve this problem would be to pay police higher salaries then, classic situation of you get what you pay for.

Furthermore, armchair experts and all that.

Several family members are or were law enforcement, military, or both, so while I don't have direct first-hand experience, I've learned enough over the years through discussions with them as well as direct discussions about this situation to know that my thoughts on the subject are not off-base with what those with direct experience think.  Thankfully, no one I've been related to has believed in the blue wall of silence over actual justice and responsibility.

And cops are almost always some of the highest paid standard jobs in an area.  If they're not willing to do all that's asked of them for the wage that they're offered (especially after all the significant perks and protections they get because of their unions), they shouldn't accept the job.  Period.  As with all the other places complaining about not being able to get people to work for them these days, if the salary was the issue, there wouldn't be asses in seats in law enforcement, as more and more people aren't willing to take on jobs they feel aren't compensating them properly, regardless of what it is.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

24 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Several family members are or were law enforcement, military, or both, so while I don't have direct first-hand experience, I've learned enough over the years through discussions with them as well as direct discussions about this situation to know that my thoughts on the subject are not off-base with what those with direct experience think.  Thankfully, no one I've been related to has believed in the blue wall of silence over actual justice and responsibility.

And cops are almost always some of the highest paid standard jobs in an area.  If they're not willing to do all that's asked of them for the wage that they're offered (especially after all the significant perks and protections they get because of their unions), they shouldn't accept the job.  Period.  As with all the other places complaining about not being able to get people to work for them these days, if the salary was the issue, there wouldn't be asses in seats in law enforcement, as more and more people aren't willing to take on jobs they feel aren't compensating them properly, regardless of what it is.

I think this is simplifying matters quite a bit though. Perhaps teachers should also be told before signing the contract that they should be expected to be gunned down by a school shooter?

At the end of the day, no one knows how he or she would actually react in such situations, unless actually involved in one. We all hope we would act in the "right" manner, but this is much, much easier said than done. It's easiest to point fingers and blame when looking for justice or closure.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

23 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I think this is simplifying matters quite a bit though. Perhaps teachers should also be told before signing the contract that they should be expected to be gunned down by a school shooter?

At the end of the day, no one knows how he or she would actually react in such situations, unless actually involved in one. We all hope we would act in the "right" manner, but this is much, much easier said than done. It's easiest to point fingers and blame when looking for justice or closure.

I understand what you're saying, but in this situation it simply doesn't apply.  People going in to law enforcement have it drilled into them what can and sometimes will ultimately be expected of them.  If you aren't willing to put your life in danger to save others, don't sign up--period.  The fact that the entire police force reacted in your theorized "nobody knows how they'll react until it happens" manner, and all with cowardice (except for waving guns at parents who arrived on-scene who wanted to rush other parts of the building and get their kids out) proves my original statement about how all of these people need to be fired from the police force and disqualified from any future service.  They've now been in that situation and have proved that they're not up the to task.

Additionally, some of the cops who arrived on-scene had kids in that school, and they ran in, grabbed their own children, ran out, and only then prevented other, non-police force parents from doing the same.  All the while not bothering to enter the school and attempt to save anyone else's children, let alone whatever staff was in the building.  So in the end, some of those officers were certainly willing to risk their lives in the face of danger, but only for their own family, and not any other members of the public that they swore to protect and serve.  The fact that an off duty member of the border patrol armed with a civilian weapon had to blow past the entire police force, storm the school on his own, and find and then gun down the madman inside when THREE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY SIX armed, body armored members of law enforcement failed to even attempt to do so and instead sat around doing nothing, while actively preventing anyone else from trying to intervene.

If they couldn't do the job, they wouldn't have been hired.  If they wouldn't do the job (which is what is shown here), they needed to decline the job or quit the moment they realized they weren't up to the task.  Anyone who was involved who remained on the payroll afterward should be summarily fired due to gross negligence of duty and made ineligible for employment in any similar position going forward.

[FireHazard51 | 2,043]

10 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

I think this is simplifying matters quite a bit though. Perhaps teachers should also be told before signing the contract that they should be expected to be gunned down by a school shooter?

At the end of the day, no one knows how he or she would actually react in such situations, unless actually involved in one. We all hope we would act in the "right" manner, but this is much, much easier said than done. It's easiest to point fingers and blame when looking for justice or closure.

When the police are trained to act in a certain way, have a mentality/motto why would you be surprised when they act that way.  "Better judge by 12 than carried by 8."  Look at the US military, we put the MISSION first.  Not our safety, the mission.  Because it's drilled into us it's no wonder you have people who place the mission first over their own safety and security.  I've had a sheriff tell me how he will react to an active shooter event in my workplace.  Guess what, his actions would mirror that of the school shooting.  He's not going in until told to do so.  If he's the first to the scene he's staying put until "backup" shows up.  Basically it's up to us, the employees of the building, to get out safely or attack the gun man who's got us pinned with no escape.

You think paying cops more will make them more braver???  Take a guess at how much the US military pays it's enlisted compared to cops.  Pay isn't what makes people be brave.  And we don't think it's "brave" to do room clearing with hostile enemies.  It's doing the damn job we signed up to do.  And even if it wasn't what you signed up to do you still did it because that is what is expected of you.  The general mentality of the US police force sickens me.  This issue is a deep one to fix and money isn't the problem.  Police put their life above everything else and get told how easily they can be killed from routine stops.    Go figure they have an itch trigger fingers and many unnecessary killings happen.  You train them to be scared for their lives and they have the mentality of "better they die by mistake than me MAYBE being murdered".  Also if they THINK/FEEL like their life is at risk they are allowed by the law to use deadly force regardless of what is a real threat.  Yeah, the military holds a MUCH higher stand than that.  We could be taking active gun fire and based on our rules of engagement we have restrictions on what type of force to use and when to use it.  Police are undisciplined with stupid loose regulations on using escalation of force , including deadly force, as compared to the military in a fucking war zone.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

8 minutes ago, FireHazard51 said:

When the police are trained to act in a certain way, have a mentality/motto why would you be surprised when they act that way.  "Better judge by 12 than carried by 8."  Look at the US military, we put the MISSION first.  Not our safety, the mission.  Because it's drilled into us it's no wonder you have people who place the mission first over their own safety and security.  I've had a sheriff tell me how he will react to an active shooter event in my workplace.  Guess what, his actions would mirror that of the school shooting.  He's not going in until told to do so.  If he's the first to the scene he's staying put until "backup" shows up.  Basically it's up to us, the employees of the building, to get out safely or attack the gun man who's got us pinned with no escape.

You think paying cops more will make them more braver???  Take a guess at how much the US military pays it's enlisted compared to cops.  Pay isn't what makes people be brave.  And we don't think it's "brave" to do room clearing with hostile enemies.  It's doing the damn job we signed up to do.  And even if it wasn't what you signed up to do you still did it because that is what is expected of you.  The general mentality of the US police force sickens me.  This issue is a deep one to fix and money isn't the problem.  Police put their life above everything else and get told how easily they can be killed from routine stops.    Go figure they have an itch trigger fingers and many unnecessary killings happen.  You train them to be scared for their lives and they have the mentality of "better they die by mistake than me MAYBE being murdered".  Also if they THINK/FEEL like their life is at risk they are allowed by the law to use deadly force regardless of what is a real threat.  Yeah, the military holds a MUCH higher stand than that.  We could be taking active gun fire and based on our rules of engagement we have restrictions on what type of force to use and when to use it.  Police are undisciplined with stupid loose regulations on using escalation of force , including deadly force, as compared to the military in a fucking war zone.

Well from the points you just highlighted there, it's no wonder the police did nothing in this situation. Implement better training procedures, which would weed out the less-than-competant or unwilling. Can't really hold people fully responsible for blame though when they're just meeting the standards that they were told to do.

[FireHazard51 | 2,043]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Well from the points you just highlighted there, it's no wonder the police did nothing in this situation. Implement better training procedures, which would weed out the less-than-competant or unwilling. Can't really hold people fully responsible for blame though when they're just meeting the standards that they were told to do.

Thats the problem, they DID meet the standards.  You didn't get my point.  The standards set by the police IS the problem.  And that isn't something that is easily fix.  That will likely take a generation or two to fully change.  And money isn't a solution for a unwritten standard/motto.  "Better judge by 12 than carried by 8."  THAT is the problem with the police.  It's not serving the public, it's making sure they go home at night.   Even if that means breaking policy, procedures, or the law.  Laws, policy, standards.. they mean nothing if they are going to be broken to ensure the cop's life is the number one priority.

Also, in case you haven't noticed.  The law OFTEN sides with a cop's decision.  Even though it's a bad or "wrong" one, they still don't see jail time for the VAST majority of "poor policing".  And that is part of the issue as well.  I guess the first step is actually punishing cops for breaking the law.  That may require new laws or new interpretations  of existing laws.  But as it stands now, cops can pretty much do anything with little repercussions.  Another stark difference from the military.  You get "fired" from the military.  You carry that shame with you for the rest of your life and are barred from many future jobs, both in the private and public sector.  You also lose the access to federal assistance like student loans.  You get fired as a cop, you get hired as a cop again in a different police force.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

39 minutes ago, FireHazard51 said:

You get fired as a cop, you get hired as a cop again in a different police force.

Well, technically if you're outright fired as a cop, without having the opportunity to resign beforehand, you're not supposed to be eligible to work for law enforcement anywhere else in the country again.  Not all departments follow that rule, sadly.  I have been hearing about something called "The Brady List" recently that seems to be more legally mandated the previously mentioned tradition/policy, but haven't found a lot about it yet.  What I have found has been from local/regional web pages which seem to indicate that cops put on the list are unhireable, but they're only supposed to be put on the list for reasons involving a prosecutor being able to bring charges against them.

[FireHazard51 | 2,043]

23 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

Well, technically if you're outright fired as a cop, without having the opportunity to resign beforehand, you're not supposed to be eligible to work for law enforcement anywhere else in the country again.  Not all departments follow that rule, sadly.  I have been hearing about something called "The Brady List" recently that seems to be more legally mandated the previously mentioned tradition/policy, but haven't found a lot about it yet.  What I have found has been from local/regional web pages which seem to indicate that cops put on the list are unhireable, but they're only supposed to be put on the list for reasons involving a prosecutor being able to bring charges against them.

Yeah, resigning is frequently the result.  This 6 year old video does a good job touching on some major issues with our police force.  None of the issues have been fix by the way.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

1 hour ago, FireHazard51 said:

Yeah, resigning is frequently the result.  This 6 year old video does a good job touching on some major issues with our police force.  None of the issues have been fix by the way.

Oh yeah, it's been a while, but I've seen that clip/episode.  There's the occasional win for the public when some cops lose their "qualified immunity" and face either civil or criminal charges, but it's few and far between, and generally the cops have to have done something completely egregious before it gets to that point.  Honestly, with as bad as things have gotten, they really ought to be treating cops like doctors in regard to what they do and how well they do it--each one should be responsible for paying for their own equivalent of "malpractice" insurance, with no qualified immunity in place.  If they fuck up, it's up to a jury to decide whether they're responsible or not, not their magic "get out of court free" card that they all seem to carry.  And if you lose a case, your insurance goes up until you either can't afford it or no one will insure you, at which point you can't work in that job anymore because you don't have insurance.  All the bad apples would weed themselves out fairly quickly.

[avatar! | 1,812]

Couple Arrested for Allegedly Crashing Cars to Get YouTube Clicks

https://jalopnik.com/couple-arrested-for-allegedly-crashing-cars-to-get-yout-1850268938

Christopher and Kimberly Phelps of Yucaipa were arrested over the scam. According to authorities, the couple ran a YouTube channel under the username BLU3 GHO57. And because stuff like car crashes and road rage incidents are popular on the platform, the channel had 162 dash cam videos of incidents ranging from full-on collisions to road rage incidents.

County sheriffs were tipped off after Christopher allegedly caused another collision, this time involving a truck pulling a trailer. Authorities say he got in front of the vehicle and intentionally stopped for no reason, causing the truck to rear end him. And like clockwork, not long after the “accident,” a video of the incident was uploaded to their channel. Authorities responded to the area of the collision, investigating and questioning witnesses which eventually led to the couple’s arrest.

 

[Tabonga | 2,318]

23 minutes ago, avatar! said:

Couple Arrested for Allegedly Crashing Cars to Get YouTube Clicks

https://jalopnik.com/couple-arrested-for-allegedly-crashing-cars-to-get-yout-1850268938

Christopher and Kimberly Phelps of Yucaipa were arrested over the scam. According to authorities, the couple ran a YouTube channel under the username BLU3 GHO57. And because stuff like car crashes and road rage incidents are popular on the platform, the channel had 162 dash cam videos of incidents ranging from full-on collisions to road rage incidents.

County sheriffs were tipped off after Christopher allegedly caused another collision, this time involving a truck pulling a trailer. Authorities say he got in front of the vehicle and intentionally stopped for no reason, causing the truck to rear end him. And like clockwork, not long after the “accident,” a video of the incident was uploaded to their channel. Authorities responded to the area of the collision, investigating and questioning witnesses which eventually led to the couple’s arrest.

 

They need to be sentenced to several years of subbing for these guys:

 

[Tabonga | 2,318]

Things just keep getting stranger:

https://www.denver7.com/news/local-news/lakewood-officer-hurt-in-shootout-with-postal-worker-robbers-police-say-area-schools-on-lockdown

[Reed Rothchild | 9,533]

Today I learned Gwyneth Paltrow is being sued over a ski collision.  One of the exhibits:

[Tulpa | 3,501]

3 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Today I learned Gwyneth Paltrow is being sued over a ski collision. 

The whole case has been bonkers.

[Tabonga | 2,318]

33 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

The whole case has been bonkers.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

So that's how she got that jade egg stuck in there.

[Tabonga | 2,318]

I wonder if their names were Frank and Jesse?

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/south-carolina/2023/03/31/armed-men-involved-in-train-robbery-in-hampton-county-town-of-estill-sc/70070448007/

[avatar! | 1,812]

Stabbing death of tech executive unleashes torrent of anger from VCs and techies who ‘hate what San Francisco has become’

https://fortune.com/2023/04/05/bob-lee-stabbing-death-san-francisco-techies-vcs-cash-app-mobilecoin/

Officers responded at 2:35 a.m. to a call reporting the stabbing and found Lee, who was visiting the city after having recently moved to Miami, according to NBC Bay Area. He was declared dead shortly after he was taken to the hospital, per a statement from San Francisco police.

No arrests have been made, and police haven’t released any details about a potential suspect.

After Lee’s death was reported, an outpouring of grief and remembrances for the tech executive, who also was the chief product officer at crypto startup MobileCoin, flooded social media. And along with the grief came a flood of anger over the state of San Francisco, which tech leaders have previously called the “worst run city in the United States.”

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

42 minutes ago, avatar! said:

Stabbing death of tech executive unleashes torrent of anger from VCs and techies who ‘hate what San Francisco has become’

This shit is crazy and has sent a fervor around the tech industry. I work in tech but thankfully not in the Bay area (although, regrettably, in Nebraska) but there has been a lot of discussion about this. 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

2 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

This shit is crazy and has sent a fervor around the tech industry. I work in tech but thankfully not in the Bay area (although, regrettably, in Nebraska) but there has been a lot of discussion about this. 

I get the discussion about how SF sucks (as someone who kinda works in tech in bay area) homelessness, drugs, blah blah blah

But SF is not even top 65 cities for murders in USA (per capita):

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/

bottom half of us cities for violent crime/murder

https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francisco-problems/crime

 

i know it sucks a semi-famous guy got stabbed, and I feel bad, but a lot of people get stabbed everyday, everywhere. I think we should let the evidence show and see what happened.  I am in SF all the time and have always felt safe. Lets not make it seem like street murder is the biggest problem here- housing prices, car break ins and drug use are.