Crime & Punishment -- USA Edition

[Tabonga | 2,318]

Another case of no honor among thieves:

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/aurora-murder-body-concrete-suspect/73-8357013c-1c9d-4260-887e-2bbfa94ea0d5

[Tabonga | 2,318]

This is sad - I had a friend die recently and ran across her obituary when I looked since I hadn't heard from her in awhile.  I was talking with another friend and went back to look - it had changed appearance and I stupidly (my mind was somewhat pre-occupied) hit a link that sent me into ransomware land.

Fortunately I have a Chromebook so I just rebooted.

Sorry-ass f*ckers - how low can you go - I hope they rot in hell.

 

[avatar! | 1,812]

Suspect arrested in NYC smoke shop execution caught on tape was out on bail for shooting at cops

https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspect-arrested-nyc-smoke-shop-execution-caught-tape-out-bail-shooting-cops

Messiah Nantwi, 21, was arrested and charged in the murder of 36-year-old Brandon Brunson in Sunday's brazen Harlem smoke shop slaying, as well as the murder of 19-year-old Jaylen Duncan, who was fatally shot in the head near Madison Avenue and East 132nd Street Saturday afternoon. 

Nantwi, according to reports, was out on bail for the attempted murder of a police officer after allegedly firing at cops during a graffiti stop in the Bronx in February 2021...He was released in mid-2021 after posting $30,000 of a $300,000 bail set by a Bronx Supreme Court judge, N.Y. Daily News reported. The judge reportedly reduced the bail from the initial $500,000 to appease prosecutors. That case remains pending.

I used to love to visit NYC, always felt safe there. Not anymore. NYC has made it as difficult as possible to protect yourself despite all the massive increase in violence. Yet, funny, that did not seem an issue to murderer Messiah Nantwi! However, any law-abiding citizen such as myself is barred from carrying "weapons" for self-defense, this includes knives. In fact, here is what NYC says -

https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page

Even if you are only carrying a knife for self-defense, you may still be subject to summons and/or arrest if the circumstances indicate that the knife is used or possessed as a weapon. If you feel threatened or in danger, call 911 for police assistance.

Yeah, remember kids, when someone pulls a gun and shoots you in the head, just call 911 for police assistance

[Tabonga | 2,318]

5 minutes ago, avatar! said:

Suspect arrested in NYC smoke shop execution caught on tape was out on bail for shooting at cops

https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspect-arrested-nyc-smoke-shop-execution-caught-tape-out-bail-shooting-cops

Messiah Nantwi, 21, was arrested and charged in the murder of 36-year-old Brandon Brunson in Sunday's brazen Harlem smoke shop slaying, as well as the murder of 19-year-old Jaylen Duncan, who was fatally shot in the head near Madison Avenue and East 132nd Street Saturday afternoon. 

Nantwi, according to reports, was out on bail for the attempted murder of a police officer after allegedly firing at cops during a graffiti stop in the Bronx in February 2021...He was released in mid-2021 after posting $30,000 of a $300,000 bail set by a Bronx Supreme Court judge, N.Y. Daily News reported. The judge reportedly reduced the bail from the initial $500,000 to appease prosecutors. That case remains pending.

I used to love to visit NYC, always felt safe there. Not anymore. NYC has made it as difficult as possible to protect yourself despite all the massive increase in violence. Yet, funny, that did not seem an issue to murderer Messiah Nantwi! However, any law-abiding citizen such as myself is barred from carrying "weapons" for self-defense, this includes knives. In fact, here is what NYC says -

https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page

Even if you are only carrying a knife for self-defense, you may still be subject to summons and/or arrest if the circumstances indicate that the knife is used or possessed as a weapon. If you feel threatened or in danger, call 911 for police assistance.

Yeah, remember kids, when someone pulls a gun and shoots you in the head, just call 911 for police assistance

How much else do you suppose this upstanding citizen has on his record?  I doubt that this is his first time at the rodeo.

And wtf was the prosecutor doing asking for a reduced bail?  They should be trying to keep people like this in jail so everyone else is safe.

[Tabonga | 2,318]

Who ya gonna call?  - PIZZA GUY!!!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pizza-delivery-man-trips-suspect-125419572.html

[avatar! | 1,812]

Another summer in Chicago... and it's just the start.

[Tabonga | 2,318]

1 hour ago, avatar! said:

Another summer in Chicago... and it's just the start.

The mayor elect seems to be soft pedaling/justifying the whole thing.  

[avatar! | 1,812]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

The mayor elect seems to be soft pedaling/justifying the whole thing.  

Yeah, he said -

“In no way do I condone the destructive activity we saw in the Loop and lakefront this weekend. It is unacceptable and has no place in our city. However, it is not constructive to demonize youth who have otherwise been starved of opportunities in their own communities.”

He's right, we should never just demonize youth, but exactly how is hundreds of teenagers looting, fighting, vandalizing, assaulting innocent people, AND shooting, in any way shape or form related to "starved of opportunities"...

[Tabonga | 2,318]

It is hard to fight "logic" like this.   

https://news.yahoo.com/l-councilwoman-blames-toyota-catalytic-133800854.html

It is no wonder why so many cities have such serious problems.

[Tabonga | 2,318]

There was a young woman killed in the area recently when some asshats threw a rock through her window as she was driving.

Authorities just made an arrest and if/when they are found guilty I hope they spend most of their lives in jail.  While a lot of crimes are pretty senseless this one is really meaningless.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/three-men-18-arrested-fatal-rock-throwing-incident-just-denver-rcna81542

Edited April 26, 2023 by Tabonga

[avatar! | 1,812]

What? you think rich people get away with things? why, that's ludicrous. We all know the rich are subject to the same laws as everyone else. Yup. Absolutely the case. Not like the rich can hire shiteful lawyers to drag things out, that never happens. Laws apply to everyone alike - at least that's the case in an alternate universe

[Tabonga | 2,318]

The local news is reporting that the rock throwers (from my previous post) stopped after the event and took a photo of the wrecked car as a "memento/trophy".   Doesn't get much more depraved/callous than that......

[avatar! | 1,812]

41 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

The local news is reporting that the rock throwers (from my previous post) stopped after the event and took a photo of the wrecked car as a "memento/trophy".   Doesn't get much more depraved/callous than that......

I hope those responsible see long long jail times...

[avatar! | 1,812]

Man pauses date to kill parking lot scammer, then returns to restaurant, Texas cops say

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article274794306.html

Erick Aguirre, 29, went to downtown Houston on April 11 to meet with a woman. They arrived in separate vehicles before 8 p.m., and shortly after they parked, they were approached by a man claiming to be a parking attendant, according to a criminal complaint filed April 14 in Harris County.

The man, Elliott Nix, told them it would cost $20 per vehicle to park, but that they could get their money back at the end of the night if they showed him a receipt from the restaurant, the documents said. Aguirre gave the man $40 and walked to the restaurant with his date.

But moments later, surveillance camera video captures Aguirre sprinting out of the restaurant and grabbing something from inside his vehicle after an employee told him Nix was a scammer, documents said.

A witness told investigators he saw Aguirre chasing after Nix with a handgun. They disappeared from view but the witness heard a gunshot, then saw Aguirre “nonchalantly walking back to his car,” putting the pistol away and heading back to the restaurant, documents said.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

So....instant justice?  (Taken to the extreme)

[Link | 2,713]

On 4/17/2023 at 4:35 PM, avatar! said:

Yeah, he said -

“In no way do I condone the destructive activity we saw in the Loop and lakefront this weekend. It is unacceptable and has no place in our city. However, it is not constructive to demonize youth who have otherwise been starved of opportunities in their own communities.”

He's right, we should never just demonize youth, but exactly how is hundreds of teenagers looting, fighting, vandalizing, assaulting innocent people, AND shooting, in any way shape or form related to "starved of opportunities"...

So, his career has been involved with the public schools. He knows what goes on in home life among poor families. I agree that what he said is poor optics and maybe too simplistic. But what I see is this has been a growing trend fed by factors of both the pandemic and the current civil rights movement.

Crime by adults has also gone up (and there is cross pollination of that to juveniles) and I have seen some things I believe specifically grew out of the pandemic. Almost immediately with the first shutdowns, first everything was empty but within a few days, reckless driving and joyriding skyrocketed with the empty streets. It's not difficult to draw a throughline from this to rising auto thefts, and then catalytic converter thefts. I know the latter is happening nationwide. Aided and spread through TikTok. I have watched these trends flow, each one beginning in that order. I have a bit of a unique view to see this from hearing ground reports all over the city 5 days a week.

This all also builds upon what happened ten years ago here when 50 public schools were shut down, upending kids' commutes, families' lives, and resources for surrounding communities. 

I don't excuse the events of that weekend but there's a lot of words and circumstances to pack in to a brief statement about them. And if we want to avoid continuing these trends, simple punitive measures alone are only going to squeeze the balloon. You need to look at why these meetups or whatever they're calling flash mobs now are popular if you want to truly correct and prevent them. Curfews and beatdowns might seem like a solution in one day but that "solution" is only going to exacerbate things. When you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail...

 

On 4/21/2023 at 10:31 AM, Tabonga said:

It is hard to fight "logic" like this.   

https://news.yahoo.com/l-councilwoman-blames-toyota-catalytic-133800854.html

It is no wonder why so many cities have such serious problems.

Again I wouldn't say that to not attempt to address thieves at all is the best idea, so I do agree that to just let it fly isn't right.

We've got more cops per capita in Chicago than most American cities and that doesn't stop it. There's already laws against theft and vandalism, right? Some dude in a hoody walking down the street with a sawzall and cat converter is gonna get stopped and questioned regardless. What's that law gonna change? Do we want to live in a police state? There are other things going on. And if you only try to swat flies, that does little to stop them. Some combination approach is needed. So I again agree it's a little foolhardy to totally discount the first idea of deterrence through punishment, but by itself it will do nothing to stem the tide and she is correct that other avenues are needed. Why is there always a question of funding for schools, mental health clinics, other safety net measures but never for reactive and immediate law enforcement that usually succeeds (in the low rates it does at all) by confrontation and fighting fire with fire? 

Surely you, of all people here, remember the hubcap theft epidemic of the 80s. This catalytic converter thing is a direct analog to that, isn't it? Now, why is it that people don't steal hubcaps any more? Let me think...

 

[Tabonga | 2,318]

1 hour ago, Link said:

So, his career has been involved with the public schools. He knows what goes on in home life among poor families. I agree that what he said is poor optics and maybe too simplistic. But what I see is this has been a growing trend fed by factors of both the pandemic and the current civil rights movement.

Crime by adults has also gone up (and there is cross pollination of that to juveniles) and I have seen some things I believe specifically grew out of the pandemic. Almost immediately with the first shutdowns, first everything was empty but within a few days, reckless driving and joyriding skyrocketed with the empty streets. It's not difficult to draw a throughline from this to rising auto thefts, and then catalytic converter thefts. I know the latter is happening nationwide. Aided and spread through TikTok. I have watched these trends flow, each one beginning in that order. I have a bit of a unique view to see this from hearing ground reports all over the city 5 days a week.

This all also builds upon what happened ten years ago here when 50 public schools were shut down, upending kids' commutes, families' lives, and resources for surrounding communities. 

I don't excuse the events of that weekend but there's a lot of words and circumstances to pack in to a brief statement about them. And if we want to avoid continuing these trends, simple punitive measures alone are only going to squeeze the balloon. You need to look at why these meetups or whatever they're calling flash mobs now are popular if you want to truly correct and prevent them. Curfews and beatdowns might seem like a solution in one day but that "solution" is only going to exacerbate things. When you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail...

 

Again I wouldn't say that to not attempt to address thieves at all is the best idea, so I do agree that to just let it fly isn't right.

We've got more cops per capita in Chicago than most American cities and that doesn't stop it. There's already laws against theft and vandalism, right? Some dude in a hoody walking down the street with a sawzall and cat converter is gonna get stopped and questioned regardless. What's that law gonna change? Do we want to live in a police state? There are other things going on. And if you only try to swat flies, that does little to stop them. Some combination approach is needed. So I again agree it's a little foolhardy to totally discount the first idea of deterrence through punishment, but by itself it will do nothing to stem the tide and she is correct that other avenues are needed. Why is there always a question of funding for schools, mental health clinics, other safety net measures but never for reactive and immediate law enforcement that usually succeeds (in the low rates it does at all) by confrontation and fighting fire with fire? 

Surely you, of all people here, remember the hubcap theft epidemic of the 80s. This catalytic converter thing is a direct analog to that, isn't it? Now, why is it that people don't steal hubcaps any more? Let me think...

 

It isn't so much a matter of number of cops (unless you want to argue number of cops vs number of crimes) but rather the lack of enforcement on the district attorney level and the judicial level.  The current trend is pretty much catch and release with the odd trend of personal recognizance bonds - and the miscreant if caught for something else and has a failure to appear they get another personal recognizance bond that they can also skip out on.   And we have had cases in Denver where they cut these folks loose and they promptly go out and murder some one.

In the case of the converter theft those folks sometimes do get caught - and usually also cut (as it were) loose - what are the odds they are going to go out  and repeat since they weren't punished god knows how many times?  And if you are the lucky recipient of these f*ckheads attentions you can't use your car until you wait for a replacement (which are in short supply since so many get boosted).  Insurance is going to help a whole lot since most people have a high deductible.  And many people (like me) only have one vehicle. 

On a related note our esteemed State Attorney (Phil Weiser) had this to say on auto theft (Colorado has the dubious distinction of being at the top of the heap for auto thefts):

“After someone commits a third or fourth car theft in, say, three months," Weiser said, "they should be kept in (jail) with a really high bond, because you got a sense they are going to get out they’re going to commit more crimes.” 

As if someone that has been popped that many times hasn't been doing this all along.  This is not rocket science peeps.

This comes on heels of a disasterous law that Colorado recently passed that treats auto theft of a vehicle whose value is under $2000 as a misdeneanor.  Such stolen vehicles are generally used in other crimes and often totaled  in the process (kind of amazing how much damage ramming a store front will do).  This of course falls the hardest on poor people (I thought certain political factions liked poor people - I could be mistaken in that undersanding though) since they likely don't have a replacement vehicle nor the funds to go acquire a new junker.  And forget about any insurance.  If they rely on that vehicle for work they will likely lose their likely not very good job.

(And societies generally can't fund everything (unless one likes inlfation - I think it sucks but that is just me  maybe) - so things have to be given priorities - public safety is important - the stampede to defund police departments didn't work out so well.) 

I do know that the higher placed politicos (of whatever persuasion) always seem to manage to put their salaries/assorted swag  above the many  needs of their satrapies.  

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Tabonga

[Link | 2,713]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

 

I understand the frustration but I'm sorry I'm seeing a lot of complaining but not any solutions in here. Can you clarify what you would suggest, if anything? Aside from "don't do that, you asshole" and various implications about populations or politicians of certain stripes that you think have unique effects or results

[Tabonga | 2,318]

11 minutes ago, Link said:

I understand the frustration but I'm sorry I'm seeing a lot of complaining but not any solutions in here. Can you clarify what you would suggest, if anything? Aside from "don't do that, you asshole" and various implications about populations or politicians of certain stripes that you think have unique effects or results

Well actually incarcerating people who repeatedly commit crimes would be a start.  Cutting them loose just ensures you have more victims in repeated crimes (speaking of which how do the people turning crooks loose  propose  making victims whole when their tormenters are set free in those really effective personal recognizance bonds?).  I kinda remember a time when criminals got a vacation in the crossbar motel. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Tabonga

[Link | 2,713]

39 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Well actually incarcerating people who repeatedly commit crimes would be a start.  Cutting them loose just ensures you have more victims in repeated crimes (speaking of which how do the people turning crooks loose  propose  making victims whole when their tormenters are set free in those really effective personal recognizance bonds?).  I kinda remember a time when criminals got a vacation in the crossbar motel. 

Okay, you're not wrong in that, imo

I still say manufacturers updating designs to make parts less easy to steal, less desirable, or just plain nonexistent would do more to curtail these irritating and disgusting criminal acts than punishment after the fact IF the person can even be found and then we spend lots of tax dollars feeding clothing and sheltering them, and trying to avoid abuse from all sides in that system, and then worrying about what they're going to do when they get out (who will hire them and how will they subsist if no one will due to record, lack of skill, etc)

[Tabonga | 2,318]

8 hours ago, Link said:

Okay, you're not wrong in that, imo

I still say manufacturers updating designs to make parts less easy to steal, less desirable, or just plain nonexistent would do more to curtail these irritating and disgusting criminal acts than punishment after the fact IF the person can even be found and then we spend lots of tax dollars feeding clothing and sheltering them, and trying to avoid abuse from all sides in that system, and then worrying about what they're going to do when they get out (who will hire them and how will  they subsist if no one will due to record, lack of skill, etc)

Stopping all crime (at whatever level) has never been a goal of law enforcement - the idea is to provide at least some deterrence to others who might think committing these crimes is just peach o'reno and fully justified due to their lot in life (usually of their own making).

It has always baffled me how some peoples' sympathies seem to lie with the perpetrators rather than the victims.  No matter how much the crime impacts those victims.  (And does anyone seriously think the perpetrators give one moment's thought to the negative impact they are having on someone else's life - I kinda doubt it. Maybe the victims have sob stories in their own lives they are dealing with - the crime is not going to help them is it?) 

Reminds me of a time (1992 or so) when I heard a crash on a Sunday morning about 9 am and I went outside to see the front of my relatively new Trooper smashed up right good.  The offending vehicle bounced off my vehicle and pushed my neighbor's vehicle (parked right behind me) and wrapped it around a telephone pole.   

The driver stumbles out, falls on my lawn and starts puking.  He then says "I think I am in trouble again!" and starts crying.  I am watching all this (mainly to make sure he doesn't "wander" off before the police show up and his mother (they lived down the block) appears  and starts berating me in a racially charged manner saying things like  "all you white people care about is your property."  So like did her son pick my neighbor and me out because we were white?  Anyway the police did show up - he rolled over without being told and placed his hands behind his back.  Which kinda told me it wasn't his first dance at the rodeo. 

It should come as no surprise that he had no insurance - so I was out my deductible and the vehicle was never quite the same after being rebuilt. My neighbor just had liablility - so he was totally screwed by this fine upstanding citizen.  He did have the audicity to show up on my doorstep two years later wanting me to pay him to shovel my sidewalk.  I really don't care what his sob story was - I didn't make him get stinko drunk - that was pretty much his own doing.  

Edited April 29, 2023 by Tabonga

[Link | 2,713]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

It has always baffled me how some peoples' sympathies seem to lie with the perpetrators rather than the victims. 

It's not sympathy, at least not from my end. It's questioning why people turn to crime and what can be done to lessen those causes across the board. Police work tends to be reactive. I say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I'm sure you wish that car crash had never happened. Did having the guy hauled off to jail give you any restitution? I'm not saying that shouldn't be dealt with by authorities, mind you. He did stupid things and caused you harm and hassle. He's not quite enough of an asshole to run away after creating that event. But he did it all by himself and that was wrong.  

The fact that he's a repeat offender and resorts to begging for odd jobs tells me he isn't equipped to make good in this society. Poor education and socialization from underfunded public schools and a lifelong distressed social circle will do that to people. Is that how his life was? I don't know but it's a hypothesis. We are all responsible, but we are also products of our lives. In my opinion this is a question of "nature or nurture", and in the armchair debate of how to make "shit happen" less in the future, yeah, some examination is warranted. That's with a view to make things better for all of us, not just for people with failings and improprieties but also the people in their surrounding community (such as car owners). Or we can just grind our teeth and be sarcastic about peoples' moral character and demographics. Have fun.  

[Tabonga | 2,318]

43 minutes ago, Link said:

It's not sympathy, at least not from my end. It's questioning why people turn to crime and what can be done to lessen those causes across the board. Police work tends to be reactive. I say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I'm sure you wish that car crash had never happened. Did having the guy hauled off to jail give you any restitution? I'm not saying that shouldn't be dealt with by authorities, mind you. He did stupid things and caused you harm and hassle. He's not quite enough of an asshole to run away after creating that event. But he did it all by himself and that was wrong.  

The fact that he's a repeat offender and resorts to begging for odd jobs tells me he isn't equipped to make good in this society. Poor education and socialization from underfunded public schools and a lifelong distressed social circle will do that to people. Is that how his life was? I don't know but it's a hypothesis. We are all responsible, but we are also products of our lives. In my opinion this is a question of "nature or nurture", and in the armchair debate of how to make "shit happen" less in the future, yeah, some examination is warranted. That's with a view to make things better for all of us, not just for people with failings and improprieties but also the people in their surrounding community (such as car owners). Or we can just grind our teeth and be sarcastic about peoples' moral character and demographics. Have fun.  

You are just making assumptions as to why he was a failure.  Maybe the drinking was the root cause all along rather than the reverse (and quite frankly I don't really care - unless you can figure out a way to (directly) blame me).   Not really a morality judgement - I am a firm believer in free will (to the extent that suicide is perhaps the ultimate act of free will) and people at some point have to live with their choices.  In this case I suffered the consequences - he (and maybe  his mother) lost an essentially worthless (but heavy) junker.  No one cried on my behalf - although one of my relatives did loan us a vehicle for 3 weeks while ours was rebuilt.

Consider the recent killing of that poor woman in Colorado who was killed by the (alleged) assailants who chucked a rock through her windshield and then they went back to take a trophy photo of the wreck.  I really don't care about whatever sob story they come up with - nothing can justify what they did.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Tabonga

[Link | 2,713]

8 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

You are just making assumptions

51 minutes ago, Link said:

Is that how his life was? I don't know but it's a hypothesis.

.

12 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Maybe the drinking was the root cause all along

Sure. Now why does he drink? I don't know. I don't even know why I drink. I like it. Addiction runs in my family. Who cares? But people drink more when they are isolated or traumatized. Is this one particular asshole isolated and traumatized, I'm not saying one way or the other nor do I care. If we make sure a thousand people who otherwise wouldn't, grow up in security and comfort. 1% become criminals instead of 10% that would result in the control group (obv very ballpark figures)

9 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

nothing can justify what they did.

I'm not sure how you got justification out of what I said. Absolutely they should be held to account.

Fuck those kids. Forget them. Going forward, how do we make it so fewer kids think that's a fun thing to do? 

 

[Tabonga | 2,318]

I grew up with an alcholic father - so I know a lot about that topic.   My statements have largely been aimed at a larger group - not just you.   

My main point was that even apologists (which you may or may not be) have to reach a point where nothing in someone's past can be an excuse of any sort.

A big part of the problem (IMHO) is a disintegration of the culture over the last 20-30 years - it had its flaws but there was a core of expected behavior (and expectations)  that most of the populace (but not all - criminals (including a lot of really deprived folks) have been with all societies throughout history) adhered to. Now not so much - we are basically in a downward spiral of cultural anarchy.