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Crime & Punishment -- USA Edition

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MrWunderful
MrWunderful

Perfect case of why arming teachers is such a stupid fucking talking point.   Like, fully trained cops bitch out, but Miss Saltenberger,  the kind, older matronly widow- is supposed to take out

Reed Rothchild
Reed Rothchild

Today I learned Gwyneth Paltrow is being sued over a ski collision.  One of the exhibits:

spacepup
spacepup

@guitarzombie some constructive feedback, if I may. I understand where you are coming from, but this is exactly the reason we have an "Ignore this topic" button at the top - if there are specific

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On 8/13/2023 at 2:48 PM, Tabonga said:

Yet another one of these:

https://news.yahoo.com/video-shows-mob-steal-100-164155139.html

Why wouldn't they? What's going to happen to them? NOTHING.

Many if not most of them are likely juveniles. In the USA if a juvenile commits a crime, they're often given a free pass -- unless they actually murder someone in which case they may likely be tried as an adult. BUT, other than murder, typically a free pass.

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Fight over who will pay for beer ends with shooting at child’s birthday, Texas cops say

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fight-over-pay-beer-ends-204656419.html

Neighbors at a child’s birthday party got into a fight over paying for beer, then one [Brian Josue Torres Banegas] shot the other, police told local news outlets.

Witnesses told police the 30-year-old man fired his gun into the air, then he started shooting at his neighbor, authorities said. The 39-year-old man was shot twice.

The accused shooter had already drove away from the scene, police said, but he later returned to give a statement to officers.

Let's see... ways to determine who pays for beer that do not involve potential murder:

1)Who sings the best.
2)Arm wrestle or thumb wrestle.
3)Game of darts.
4)Game of cards.
5)Something similar to the above.

Guess common sense is out the window.

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Tabonga

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On 8/14/2023 at 1:51 PM, avatar! said:

Why wouldn't they? What's going to happen to them? NOTHING.

Many if not most of them are likely juveniles. In the USA if a juvenile commits a crime, they're often given a free pass -- unless they actually murder someone in which case they may likely be tried as an adult. BUT, other than murder, typically a free pass.

Looks like they have nailed a couple of the POSs on one of these crimes.  Neither are juveniles and given the high profile of the crime the DA might take it seriously.   

It will be interesting to see how they got noticed - and if they will sell out their comrades in order to try to save their own miserable hides

https://news.yahoo.com/entertainment/first-flash-mob-arrest-americana-232003245.html

Edit - And some more arrests:

https://deadline.com/2021/12/flash-mob-robbery-suspects-arrested-los-angeles-1234889017/

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Woman, 28, pleads guilty to fatally shoving Broadway singing coach, 87, avoiding long prison stay

https://apnews.com/article/lauren-pazienza-barbara-maier-gustern-singing-coach-69636807f4ee0f2124eab7d5e29762e0

A woman who killed an 87-year-old Broadway singing coach by shoving her onto a Manhattan sidewalk has avoided a lengthy prison sentence by pleading guilty to manslaughter on Wednesday, and will instead serve eight years behind bars.

Lauren Pazienza, 28, teared up in court as she admitted randomly attacking Barbara Maier Gustern on March 10, 2022. Gustern, whose students included "Blondie" singer Debbie Harry, lay bleeding on a sidewalk as Pazienza walked away, prosecutors said. She died five days later.

Pazienza, who’d had several glasses of wine earlier while celebrating a milestone in her wedding countdown, was upset because the park in Manhattan’s Chelsea neighborhood was closing and she and her fiance were told to leave, prosecutors said. Pazienza encountered Gustern on West 23rd Street and shoved her to the ground in what police called “an unprovoked, senseless attack,” prosecutors said. Gustern hit her head and was critically injured. She died March 15.

So, she gets a sentence of 8 years. With good behavior she could be out in as little as 1/3 of that, or 2.67 years. She's been in jail since a judge revoked her bail in May 2022, so she also receives that time towards her sentence.

“Today’s plea holds Pazienza accountable for her deadly actions,” Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg said in a statement.

Does it really Mr. Bragg? I would strongly disagree. In fact, what's that I'm smelling...

Fah Stinks GIF by FoilArmsandHog

 

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20 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

What if everytime someone posted a link where they complain about someone “getting off easy” based on career prosecutors and judges decisions (while following US law), they provide an alternative sentence with a reason supporting that sentence? 🤔 

 

That would be crazy

An alternative sentence you say, such as when you shove an innocent 87-year old whom you have never met and did nothing to you but because of your aggravated assault falls and dies from the injury you inflicted and therefore under NY Penal Law § 125.20 - manslaughter in the first degree, you could serve up to 25 years in prison and therefore you deserve at minimum say 20 years since as noted you killed an innocent person who had never threatened nor harmed you in any way. That sort of alternative sentence? Yeah, I'm totally in favor!

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52 minutes ago, avatar! said:

An alternative sentence you say, such as when you shove an innocent 87-year old whom you have never met and did nothing to you but because of your aggravated assault falls and dies from the injury you inflicted and therefore under NY Penal Law § 125.20 - manslaughter in the first degree, you could serve up to 25 years in prison and therefore you deserve at minimum say 20 years since as noted you killed an innocent person who had never threatened nor harmed you in any way. That sort of alternative sentence? Yeah, I'm totally in favor!

“Up to”

 

the problem is, you cant support that for a first time offender in a court of law, specifically when they plead “guilty”. I agree its garbage, and if it was my relative I would want their fucking head. 
 

Whether you like it or not, this is what separates democratic society from authoritanism. If you are into just disciplining people based on what one person feels, Russia might be a good fit 😇  

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On 8/24/2023 at 7:47 PM, MrWunderful said:

“Up to”

 

the problem is, you cant support that for a first time offender in a court of law, specifically when they plead “guilty”. I agree its garbage, and if it was my relative I would want their fucking head. 
 

Whether you like it or not, this is what separates democratic society from authoritanism. If you are into just disciplining people based on what one person feels, Russia might be a good fit 😇  

Actually you certainly can support a maximum sentence for a first time offender -- which is why the law does not specifically say "this only applies to second time offenders". While it may not happen often, because in many instances there may be mitigating circumstances. But, not in this case - if you can find one mitigating circumstance please do share. As for her weeping during her trial, I do believe she was truly remorseful - for herself, not her victim. This is the epitome of a selfish callous person who purposely went out of her way to hurt someone. Arguably she did not want to kill the lady she pushed (arguably), which is why it's called "manslaughter" in the first. However, the DA just brushed this aside and she gets a slap on the wrist.

As for your statement "If you are into just disciplining people based on what one person feels, Russia might be a good fit" 

1)That's the old "red herring" logical fallacy right there: an attempt to shift focus from the debate at hand by introducing an irrelevant point. My argument about sentencing has nothing to do with other countries, it's about crime and justice here in the USA.

2)Also, while a jury is there just to determine if a defendant is guilty or innocent, it is the judge who has great leeway into "disciplining" or handing out the sentence and in many instances it's based exactly upon what the judge feels. Sure, there are guidelines and there are precedents, but that does not change the fact that in many cases the judge hands out a sentence on how they feel. Example #1:

A Dallas woman who beat her 2-year-old daughter and glued the toddler’s hands to a wall was sentenced Friday to 99 years in prison by a judge who described his decision as a necessary punishment for a brutal, shocking attack.

https://nypost.com/2012/10/12/mom-gets-99-years-in-prison-for-gluing-tots-hands-to-the-wall-over-potty-training/https://nypost.com/2012/10/12/mom-gets-99-years-in-prison-for-gluing-tots-hands-to-the-wall-over-potty-training/

Example #2:

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/woman-walks-free-after-murdering-husband-family-ou_ngqwd/138308175/

The family of a homicide victim is outraged after a judge let a woman, who a jury convicted, go free.
Even though 12 people sitting on the jury in the Pamela Ballin murder trial found her guilty of beating her husband to death, Ballin still got to go home after the verdict.
“I’m baffled and disappointed,” said District Attorney Robert James.

There are of course thousands of other examples.

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"The best way to describe it is to compare it to a video game, having to deflect anything and anyone that is coming at you.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/attacked-homeless-man-san-francisco-160000881.html

‘I was attacked by a homeless man in San Francisco, and he knew how to play the system’

She remembers him grabbing her by her hair and scraping the inside of her mouth, as he threw her around: “I could not get him off, and I remember thinking I had to get away from this construction cement wall that was next to us because there was a corner and I was afraid he would knock me into it.”

“I was just screaming for help as he was dragging me around,” Christina adds.

After 10 to 20 seconds, which she says “felt like forever”, two construction workers managed to pull him from her. They then held him down while someone else called the police.

He was in his 60s and he was really well known to police as a homeless person who was becoming increasingly violent over the years. “They also told me how he had just got out of jail a couple of days before and he’d already attacked somebody else,” Christina adds.

“I know mental illness plays a huge part in stuff like this, but he definitely had his faculties about him. He knew how to play the system, and the cops said as much.”

The situation with the ever growing homeless population in San Francisco is not news. Christina thinks the root of the city’s issue is very simple: “Homeless folk are very enabled.

“If there is no repercussions to bad and aggressive behaviour, why would they change? The city has been very lax.”

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Reminds me of a few videos I've seen where some dude tries to rob a gas station or 7/11, and puts the gun on the counter, only for the clerk to grab it and turn the tables on them.

One dude put his shotgun, not a sawed-off, like a full length shotgun, on the counter, and the clerk took it. Robber tried to leap across the counter to get it back, but the clerk already had it and ran off with it.

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On 8/26/2023 at 2:03 PM, avatar! said:

Actually you certainly can support a maximum sentence for a first time offender -- which is why the law does not specifically say "this only applies to second time offenders". While it may not happen often, because in many instances there may be mitigating circumstances. But, not in this case - if you can find one mitigating circumstance please do share. As for her weeping during her trial, I do believe she was truly remorseful - for herself, not her victim. This is the epitome of a selfish callous person who purposely went out of her way to hurt someone. Arguably she did not want to kill the lady she pushed (arguably), which is why it's called "manslaughter" in the first. However, the DA just brushed this aside and she gets a slap on the wrist.

As for your statement "If you are into just disciplining people based on what one person feels, Russia might be a good fit" 

1)That's the old "red herring" logical fallacy right there: an attempt to shift focus from the debate at hand by introducing an irrelevant point. My argument about sentencing has nothing to do with other countries, it's about crime and justice here in the USA.

2)Also, while a jury is there just to determine if a defendant is guilty or innocent, it is the judge who has great leeway into "disciplining" or handing out the sentence and in many instances it's based exactly upon what the judge feels. Sure, there are guidelines and there are precedents, but that does not change the fact that in many cases the judge hands out a sentence on how they feel. Example #1:

A Dallas woman who beat her 2-year-old daughter and glued the toddler’s hands to a wall was sentenced Friday to 99 years in prison by a judge who described his decision as a necessary punishment for a brutal, shocking attack.

https://nypost.com/2012/10/12/mom-gets-99-years-in-prison-for-gluing-tots-hands-to-the-wall-over-potty-training/https://nypost.com/2012/10/12/mom-gets-99-years-in-prison-for-gluing-tots-hands-to-the-wall-over-potty-training/

Example #2:

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/woman-walks-free-after-murdering-husband-family-ou_ngqwd/138308175/

The family of a homicide victim is outraged after a judge let a woman, who a jury convicted, go free.
Even though 12 people sitting on the jury in the Pamela Ballin murder trial found her guilty of beating her husband to death, Ballin still got to go home after the verdict.
“I’m baffled and disappointed,” said District Attorney Robert James.

There are of course thousands of other examples.

A fabulously worded open letter from Diamanda Galás that sums up things perfectly -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamanda_Galás

https://www.facebook.com/100044539235054/posts/pfbid032smU7LkbmV7j7Ddbg19mzHDsGSja5Ba4vDKjXgkfmeNuhK9b1ZFBkUJCofkL693Gl/

TWICE EXECUTED: THE SLAUGHTER OF BARBARA MAIER GUSTERN
by Diamanda Galás
September 4th 2023
A name can be erased forever. An original name can be hidden beneath the appellation of a stigma.
The stigma might be a physical and/or mental disease, or it might be the condition of a body which has been damaged through trauma. With the passing of time, a stigma may be perceived as less onerous, less dangerous, and the sufferers treated with more humanity.
 
There are exceptions. Over a year ago, one of NYC's great teachers of the voice, Barbara Maier Gustern, was executed by a sociopath in a nice dress. Barbara Maier was executed first for being "in the way." And her fine name was executed repeatedly for the same reason. She did not die as an "outstanding teacher of the voice." She died under the appellation of "granny," "grandmother," and "frail old lady." She was flattened onto the pavement into obscurity by the sociopath in the nice dress, the press and the law.
 
Hers was the death of a handyman: "everybody needs one, but they don't sit in the front seat."
Gustern was killed by a high-society debutante, who was rescued from a life-sentence by her father, a cesspool magnate. He makes big money. The disposal of sewage will always rank higher in importance than the execution of an "aging" voice teacher. The punishment of Lauren Pazienza was the presumed natural lifespan --minus time-lived-- of the murdered Barbara Maier, minus the time-served of the killer:
EIGHT YEARS.
 
This means Barbara's probable age ceiling was counted as 100 years old. Outliving the age ceiling is considered greed. And an 87-year-old woman hailing a taxi that a young, up-and-coming 23 year old wanted is just considered 'greed.' And that is why Barbara Maier was executed, just like "the old" in nursing homes who were murdered by the state-mandated importation of COVID patients into their residencies. Nursing home deaths by COVID were 33 percent. And some of the nursing home patients were sent to shelters to die. For what does the expression "the old" actually mean? It refers to those who have "outlived" their usefulness. It refers to those who must live on the outskirts of society because they have been condemned by the state to be invalid to the work force. "Go lay down" is an expression used for dogs. And the old.
 
But Barbara Maier Gustern taught the voice 8 hours a day and then coached singers on Broadway; after this, she worked with Austin Pendleton and Barbara Bleier on new plays. At night, she attended faithfully the concerts of her pupils with great joy and vigor. In between lessons, she would walk for miles while shopping, banking, going to the gym, and visiting friends. Barbara Maier Gustern told me that she experienced fear during COVID. This was in 2020. And her fear was justified. Because this 87-year-old, 80-pound woman was murdered whilst being "in the way" of a tall and heavy female sociopath on a warpath.
 
Lauren Pazienza was notorious for bullying, it was later learned. "Drunk," or not, is irrelevant in the determination of "guilt." Bullying was well-noted in the predator's historical profile. "BITCH!" [GET AWAY FROM MY CAB.]
After her attack upon Gustern, Pazienza cowardly ran home to her house of birth, no doubt in "the tears" with which she decorated her final and desperate guilty plea last month in the courtroom after having proclaimed her innocence for years. Rich girls don't pay penalties for pushing around people from a lower financial class.
 
The press began fetishing this execution by referring to Lauren Pazienza as the "fiery redhead" and Barbara Maier Gustern as "the fragile grandmother." It was suggested that Paziena's mowing down of an "old lady" was an act of passionate rage.
But, honey, Barbara Maier Gustern was famous! Her clients were famous! They worshipped her! Whoever heard of the big-titted sow Lauren Pazienza? No one. And now that she looks like an advertisement for Oscar Meyer, I am tenderly reminded of Lord of the Flies.
 
I encourage the future prison-mates of Ms. Pazienza to read-up on her ahead of her residence in their facility. They will certainly want to instruct her in the rehabilitation our fine prisons have offered them. No luxury should be spared. There is a great deal of knowledge lifers can pass on to an internee who will probably end up with only three years for good behavior. Quality time in prison might afford her what her past affiliations have failed to install-- polite and humble bearing.
 
Thank you, dear sisters, in advance of your tutelage,
Kindly,
Diamanda Galás
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