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Crime & Punishment -- USA Edition


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I know we have a "politics" thread on here, but that's not the same as crime & justice, and thought it might be interesting for those of us that like to discuss such things to have our own Dostoevsky-inspired thread!

I was reading about this horrible tragedy

At least 5 killed after SUV plows into Wisconsin holiday parade

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/wisconsin-waukesha-christmas-parade-car-plow-11-22-21/index.html

The suspect in Sunday's fatal parade incident in Waukesha, Wisconsin, had been released on $1,000 bail earlier this month...obstructing an officer; second-degree recklessly endangering safety, domestic abuse assessments; disorderly conduct, domestic abuse assessments; and misdemeanor battery, domestic abuse assessments. Brooks was also charged with bail jumping, because he was already out on bail following a July 24, 2020, incident, according to court documents. In a statement, the Milwaukee County District Attorney's office now said that they should not have recommended such a low bail for Brooks and have launched an internal review into the decision...Bail had initially been set at $10,000 in that case but because Brooks had asked for a speedy jury trial, which could not be met, bail was reduced to $500. Brooks was released on bail in that case on Feb. 21, according to the district attorney’s office.

This guy had an insanely long criminal record that spanned years! Yet, was released on obscenely low bail and didn't bother showing up to court ("bail jumping")! It really is crazy, but these days it seems like anything short of murdering someone OR a high-profile case such as Madoff or Ghislaine Maxwell, consequences are minimal. That's especially true for young criminals

Waukesha teacher who filmed teenagers stealing his car says parents should pony up

https://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/2021/11/16/waukesha-man-who-had-car-stolen-teens-says-parents-should-cover-damages/8627676002/

I've had a chance to talk with the owner of that car — Zachary Bennett — who got in touch with me about the financial and mental burden he's been under since the teenagers took his car...Bennett is out thousands of dollars, and so is his insurance company...Unfortunately, there are few consequences for most young car thieves.  Bennett wants the kids locked up or forced to attend a mandated program to change their behavior. He thinks parents should be responsible for the damage their children cause. Young people steal cars, they use those cars to commit other crimes, and they often endanger the rest of us because they are reckless and inexperienced behind the wheel.

Yup, and mostly people don't give a shite or at any rate there is no real criminal accountability until someone is killed, and that definitely happens...way way too often.

Screenshot-from-2021-11-22-17-37-59.png

https://www.nhregister.com/news/article/Why-CT-teen-accused-of-killing-and-raping-girl-16640864.php

SIGH, anyway, I'm going to speak with my representatives soon about such issues. What are people's thoughts? Is it the DA's fault? Should our crime laws be changed? What is the best way to protect the public, and does this include property? If a gang of teens starts stealing from a store (I'm looking at you, San Fran) should force be used to stop them?  

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8 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

For that middle story... Is it not typical that parents are financially responsible for damages caused by their kids?  I would have thought that was standard practice.

In most states, parents are responsible for all malicious or willful property damage done by their children. This is called civil parental liability because it's non-criminal. The parent is obligated only to financially compensate the party harmed by his or her child's actions.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/rpt/2011-R-0061.htm

Of course, getting parents to pay what they owe will likely require an attorney, and of course parents can always claim they don't have the money etc etc...

 

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18 minutes ago, avatar! said:

In most states, parents are responsible for all malicious or willful property damage done by their children. This is called civil parental liability because it's non-criminal. The parent is obligated only to financially compensate the party harmed by his or her child's actions.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/rpt/2011-R-0061.htm

Of course, getting parents to pay what they owe will likely require an attorney, and of course parents can always claim they don't have the money etc etc...

 

You don't get to just claim you don't have the money.

 

You have to prove it, and then your wages get garnished until the civil penalty is paid.

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5 hours ago, Tabonga said:

This is a continuing (and apparently growing) trend.  This far transcends what most people would consider shoplifting.

https://news.yahoo.com/mobs-looters-target-bay-area-120800277.ht

San Fran is really becoming a dump. Seriously, what a disaster...

LIVE: San Francisco DA Chesa Boudin to announce charges in Union Square organized retail thefts

https://abc7news.com/sf-theft-union-square-robberies-district-attorney-chesa-boudin-felony-charges/11264530/

 

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Wonder how long this will continue...?

Group of 20-30 robbers swarm Best Buy in Minnesota on Black Friday

https://www.yahoo.com/news/group-20-30-robbers-swarm-145520675.html

At least 8 men steal tools from Home Depot in California

https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/least-8-men-steal-tools-home-depot-california/PLQ32OXHU5DULECICQILPAG3KU/

Nordstrom store ransacked by dozens of ski mask-clad looters near San Francisco, police say

https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/nordstrom-store-ransacked-by-dozens-ski-mask-clad-looters-near-san-francisco-police-say/PDDIDKK5ANCQXGAL5UUABZWIA4/

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3 hours ago, avatar! said:

Wonder how long this will continue...?

 

It will only increase until local authorities throw the book at anyone they manage to catch.  They will also have to devote the resources to catching the looters.

And it is turning deadly:

https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/west/newsnation-affiliate-security-guard-dies-from-injuries-after-attempted-armed-robbery/

Edited by Tabonga
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5 hours ago, CMR said:

So did you guys know the Gislaine Maxwell trials are about to begin Monday?  None of the "news" media are talking about it.

If she speaks up, Public servants in the US will start to fall like dominoes. Would not be surprised if she manages to be suicided. 

Edited by phart010
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Sad what happened to Chicago. Used to have a NYC vibe to it, now more like... a gun range.

Screenshot-from-2021-11-28-19-44-30.png

https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-violence-shootings-gun/11276684/

Nearly 800 people killed this year in Chicago, so far.

https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/

Screenshot-from-2021-11-28-19-51-47.png

https://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?city1=51714000&city2=53651000

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1 minute ago, avatar! said:

I solemnly swear I do not hold a grudge nor harbor bias towards SF 😅
That said, I do, for whatever reasons keep getting constant news about the city...

Because its a big, popular city? I dont know. Have you ever been? It has its share of larger city problems, but other than that its an awesome place. There is a reason the median home value is 1.6 mil. These robberies are terrible, and think they should be way harsher on them for conspiracy but thats my opinion. 
 

Arent you from maryland? I would think you would be seeing news about baltimore, but maybe the press gave up on it lol 
 

San Francisco isnt even in top 25 for violent crime per capita

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18 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

Because its a big, popular city? I dont know. Have you ever been? It has its share of larger city problems, but other than that its an awesome place. There is a reason the median home value is 1.6 mil. These robberies are terrible, and think they should be way harsher on them for conspiracy but thats my opinion. 
 

Arent you from maryland? I would think you would be seeing news about baltimore, but maybe the press gave up on it lol 
 

San Francisco isnt even in top 25 for violent crime per capita

Don't know why the algorithm keeps giving me CA news, perhaps because I visit often and have collaborations? More than likely because it's just in the news a great deal. Yeah, Baltimore is far more violent than SF, but the thing is historically SF has been quite safe, and with all the recent thefts and arguably horrible decisions by politicians that help said thieves, it's just been in the news a great deal 🙂

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Screenshot-from-2021-11-30-17-57-34.png

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2021/11/30/oxford-high-school-active-shooter-victims/8810588002/

Earlier this month, Oxford schools published a note to parents that it was aware that "numerous rumors" had "circulated throughout our building this is week," and the school was reviewing the concerns...

Police took a 15-year-old sophomore from the village of Oxford into custody at the scene. The teen is said to have had a handgun when deputies — a deputy assigned to the school and another deputy — came upon him, McCabe said. He did not resist arrest. The teen, who was in class during the day, invoked his right not to speak and wants a lawyer, McCabe said. He was taken to Oakland County's Children Village, McCabe said. Officials were executing a search warrant at the suspect’s house and his parents have hired an attorney. Additionally, McCabe said officials know how the teen got the gun, but are not releasing that information. 

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I do NOT believe this 15-year old murderer can be rehabilitated. I will be interested to know where he got the gun? Also interesting that he did not want to speak and wants a lawyer instead. His parents hired an attorney... I don't want to jump to conclusions, but my guess (could of course end up being wrong) is that he took the gun from his home, which would make the parents liable - but again, we'll find out soon.

Edited by avatar!
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That's what I was thinking, too fishy that a 15 year old would rapidly jump to a lawyer and that the parents are being all dodgy about it and the rest when you read the details.  Odds are they're in a state/county which would potentially put them behind bars too(one, both, depending on firearm ownership/control at the time) and very likely civil which would bankrupt them.

...and yes I'm fed up with these asinine out of date laws that haven't kept up with the society, social levels, information and learning levels social media and internet at large have allowed for.  20 years ago sure he probably could have a chance at rehab, odds are, it could be some larger issue that could be handled.   But now?  Nah, should be tried as an adult and depending on the laws of that state handled in the worst maximum way possible to make an example.  Not the classic, well they're a minor, so when they hit 21 their record is expunged and they go free bs.

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Screenshot-from-2021-12-01-19-43-13.png

https://www.insider.com/oxford-high-school-shooting-suspect-used-gun-bought-black-friday-2021-12

Authorities did not say where the teen's father had purchased the gun.

4th student dies from Michigan school shooting; 15-year-old charged as adult: Latest

https://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-school-shooting-suspect-dads-newly-purchased-gun/story?id=81489994

McDonald said she is confident prosecutors can prove the shooting was premeditated "well before the incident." A law enforcement official told ABC News that investigators are actively pursuing information that, Monday night, an undetermined number of students appeared to see a Snapchat video warning of a shooting on Tuesday. Some students who saw the video stayed home from school, though no calls were placed to police regarding the video, the official said.

No calls placed to police... 🙄

 

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Locked-Up 'Sullen' Crumbley Family Showing No Remorse After School Shooting, Says Sheriff

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/james-jennifer-ethan-crumbley-involuntary-manslaughter-michigan-school-shooting_n_61abee0de4b0f398af21f36a

Police said the parents were arrested in Detroit about 40 minutes south of their home after withdrawing $4,000 from an ATM. They were facing charges of involuntary manslaughter for failing to take action that might have prevented their son’s shooting. The sheriff said at a news conference Saturday that investigators believe someone helped James and Jennifer Crumbley flee and hide after warrants were issued for their arrest.

Bunch of POS cowards...

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On 11/27/2021 at 1:40 PM, avatar! said:

Wonder how long this will continue...?

Group of 20-30 robbers swarm Best Buy in Minnesota on Black Friday

https://www.yahoo.com/news/group-20-30-robbers-swarm-145520675.html

At least 8 men steal tools from Home Depot in California

https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/least-8-men-steal-tools-home-depot-california/PLQ32OXHU5DULECICQILPAG3KU/

Nordstrom store ransacked by dozens of ski mask-clad looters near San Francisco, police say

https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/nordstrom-store-ransacked-by-dozens-ski-mask-clad-looters-near-san-francisco-police-say/PDDIDKK5ANCQXGAL5UUABZWIA4/

Fortunately we have it on good (i.e. dubious) authority that acually these are mostly hoaxes.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-smash-and-grabs-doubting-reactions

Edited by Tabonga
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2 hours ago, Tabonga said:

Fortunately we have it on good (i.e. dubious) authority that acually these are mostly hoaxes.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-smash-and-grabs-doubting-reactions

Horrible, Kevin Nishita lost his life! and yet we have politicians saying "it's not so bad" 😠

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