Heritage Auctions Thread

[Gulag Joe | 582]

Third party grading has exposed the un-rareness of all the games everyone thought was rare. But there are more sealed copies of those junk games nobody bought out there than there are sealed popular titles that everyone opened up and played.

[OptOut | 8,884]

18 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

Third party grading has exposed the un-rareness of all the games everyone thought was rare. But there are more sealed copies of those junk games nobody bought out there than there are sealed popular titles that everyone opened up and played.

Dude, do you have even the slightest clue what you're talking about? There are TONS of sealed copies of Mario 64 out there, just loads! Several people on just THIS site have one! It's like the most common N64 game.

You can talk about conditional rarity, and the number WATA have graded in the SHORT time they have been around, but you are telling me that a sealed copy of MARIO 64 is RARE?

Jesus Christ, when reality finally catches up to you and all the other WATA shills and the ridiculous people bidding on this shit it will be a SIGHT to BEHOLD!

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

14 hours ago, Aatos said:

Ehh.. okay. 500k-ish for verifiably first print SMB1 I could somehow kinda almost understand, I guess it was kinda closest to being Action Comics #1 of video games (which is over 80 years old mind you).. but 1.56M dollars for what seems to be a regular sealed SM64, a relatively new game? Someone care to explain?

You do realize there's only 11 years between the release of those games, and SMB1 came out 36 years ago? I mean yea 80 is a lot more but that's still a REAL long time ago. I myself kind of forget how much time has really passed since my hayday of playing NES and SNES in the 90s. 

 

On an unrelated note, how much can I get if I reseal my Super Mario 64 and grade it?

[Gulag Joe | 582]

21 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Dude, do you have even the slightest clue what you're talking about? There are TONS of sealed copies of Mario 64 out there, just loads! Several people on just THIS site have one! It's like the most common N64 game.

You can talk about conditional rarity, and the number WATA have graded in the SHORT time they have been around, but you are telling me that a sealed copy of MARIO 64 is RARE?

Jesus Christ, when reality finally catches up to you and all the other WATA shills and the ridiculous people bidding on this shit it will be a SIGHT to BEHOLD!

 

[GPX | 1,369]

1 hour ago, OptOut said:

How can it make sense? I cannot comprehend the rational behind that price, not even in the slightest.

I should have made it less ambiguous:

the situation currently makes a lot of sense. But only to those who can afford it. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by GPX

[Aatos | 35]

1 minute ago, Gulag Joe said:

 

”Higher demand” is imo too simple explanation for 1.56 million pricepoint though. At least to me a demand implies there would be people lining up buying slightly lesser copies for proportionately lesser price, but I doubt that’s the case. If there were two extremely rich people competing for this resulting this price, it’s hardly yet evidence that there’s astronomically high demand for mint sealed SM64. Rather, for some reason that is beyond me, they thought this would make good investment somehow.

[Aatos | 35]

9 minutes ago, GPX said:

I should have made it less ambiguous:

the situation currently makes a lot of sense. But only to those who can afford it. 

Money laundering? Pyramid scheme where the still relatively low prices as of last week were artificially driven up ? Perhaps you should make it even way less ambiguous to those of us who can’t afford it?

Edited July 12, 2021 by Aatos

[OptOut | 8,884]

7 minutes ago, GPX said:

I should have made it less ambiguous:

the situation currently makes a lot of sense. But only to those who can afford it. 

Honestly, even then it really doesn't though. It just looks like a ridiculous gamble, not any sort of reasonable, rational purchase on the basis of the facts.

There could be another ten Mario 64's with a similar grade, there could easily be more than that. Are we supposed to accept now on the basis of this one sale that they each would achieve a similar price when sold?

[GPX | 1,369]

Just now, OptOut said:

Honestly, even then it really doesn't though. It just looks like a ridiculous gamble, not any sort of reasonable, rational purchase on the basis of the facts.

There could be another ten Mario 64's with a similar grade, there could easily be more than that. Are we supposed to accept now on the basis of this one sale that they each would achieve a similar price when sold?

I’ve already had my say many times over on this particular thread. It’s cool to see prices go up and more people jumping on board, it’s not cool how nothing makes sense anymore. So now I just come on this thread to make random nonsense comments for the heck of it. 

[OptOut | 8,884]

6 minutes ago, Aatos said:

Money laundering? Perhaps you should make it even way less ambiguous to those of us who can’t afford it?

Oh yeah, and if anything this is probably the MOST reasonable explanation. Money laundering, or some sort of conspiracy to raise prices among a group of interested parties. Heck, it could even be people involved with WATA and HA pumping up the prices AGAIN, just like with the 100K Mario.

Less likely, it's a gamble by a speculator, as they would have to be exceptionally ill-informed to make that particular bet, and I can't imagine anyone being simultaneously that dumb and that rich. If it is, that's an epic and hilarious fail.

Finally, the chances this went to someone who actually appreciates it as a GAME or a fine cultural artifact, and just felt compelled to bid it up to infinity? I mean... I'd give that somewhere between 0.1% and NONE.

[jonebone | 1,307]

1 hour ago, Gulag Joe said:

Only 2 copies exist in that condition. Less than 60 sealed copies of Mario 64 exist and we don't know the breakdown of what is players choice and what is red label in those numbers. It's truly a rare game in every sense. And the media attention on these high dollar sales will certainly attract more high dollar buyers.

There are WAAAY more than 60 sealed Mario 64 copies out there.  Even just shooting from the hip among sealed collector copies or ebay copies I've seen over the years we're at least in the 500 confirmed range. Not including whatever is out there hidden away or privately stashed. 

[Californication | 1,477]

It seems to me their goal is to have show rooms in say Pebble Beach or La Jolla where you walk in and there are sealed games set up for sale. 

First they need to show legitimacy so over the past two years we see this money passing hands with big press releases. There are a lot of millionaires out there and so if they can buy legitimacy and begin to attract outside people to purchase say and actor or a singer they are hoping to create the market. 

Maybe they went over the top with 1.6M because they thought it would be a hard sell to move to N64. The thing is if they can get more sales of the Mario N64 sealed, they could potentially have a larger supply of inventory and over time people wouls forget the original sale implies 1 of 2.

I've never seen a market get created, but if they keep this up, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Californication

[Aatos | 35]

19 minutes ago, Californication said:

Maybe they went over the top with 1.6M because they thought it would be a hard sell to move to N64. The thing is if they can get more sales of the Mario N64 sealed, they could potentially have a larger supply of inventory and over time people wouls forget the original sale implies 1 of 2.

Yeah I mean if one could snatch a copy of something that ”legit” went for 1.56 million for say… 300k, one would jump on it immediately and feel pretty good about it? If they would just happen to have more supply available?

Also with this much potential profit on the line, should we really take this sale, ie. just the number visible on the HA site at face value evidence that this exchange was really made? It’s a sincere question as I just personally don’t know anything about the HA or their background or people behind it. I mean funnily enough this was even reported here in Finland by the national news broadcaster but I doubt they vetted this any more than anyone else, just based on the auction listing.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Aatos

[OptOut | 8,884]

1 minute ago, Californication said:

It seems to me their goal is to have show rooms in say Pebble Beach or La Jolla where you walk in and there are sealed games set up for sale. 

First they need to show legitimacy so over the past two years we see this money passing hands with big press releases. There are a lot of millionaires out there and so if they can buy legitimacy and begin to attract outside people to purchase say and actor or a singer they are hoping to create the market. 

Maybe they went over the top with 1.6M because they thought it would be a hard sell to move to N64. 

I've never seen a market get created, but if they keep this up, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I am just thankful that it's only happening with the sealed stuff. They can have their own little enclave with the circus they've created for all I care. But DON'T call it video game collecting, it's not MY hobby.

Now, if someone actually came out and put a FACE to the game and the price, and said like "Hey it's me, James Rolfe AVGN, yeah I paid a million for that Mario 64 because I wanted it!" like I could RESPECT that! If it came from a genuine place of passion, with someone who wanted the game because it MEANT something to them then yeah.

But like this? Mysterious millionaires who clearly don't understand what they are buying? Secret cabals of speculators, market makers and manipulators, distorting and corrupting the objects of our obsession? It's just an obscene spectacle, frankly, it makes a mockery of the real feelings we all have for these old games.

I am unashamed in my determination to value these items for WHAT THEY ARE, and NOT what they are quote/unquote "worth". I will defend that position with all my heart and my soul.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

14 minutes ago, jonebone said:

There are WAAAY more than 60 sealed Mario 64 copies out there.  Even just shooting from the hip among sealed collector copies or ebay copies I've seen over the years we're at least in the 500 confirmed range. Not including whatever is out there hidden away or privately stashed. 

Lol I've been watching those same auctions for the last 20 years and strongly disagree with your assumption of at least 500. There are a lot of players choice versions out there, but red label versions are few and far between. 

[Californication | 1,477]

25 minutes ago, OptOut said:

I am just thankful that it's only happening with the sealed stuff. They can have their own little enclave with the circus they've created for all I care. But DON'T call it video game collecting, it's not MY hobby.

Now, if someone actually came out and put a FACE to the game and the price, and said like "Hey it's me, James Rolfe AVGN, yeah I paid a million for that Mario 64 because I wanted it!" like I could RESPECT that! If it came from a genuine place of passion, with someone who wanted the game because it MEANT something to them then yeah.

But like this? Mysterious millionaires who clearly don't understand what they are buying? Secret cabals of speculators, market makers and manipulators, distorting and corrupting the objects of our obsession? It's just an obscene spectacle, frankly, it makes a mockery of the real feelings we all have for these old games.

I am unashamed in my determination to value these items for WHAT THEY ARE, and NOT what they are quote/unquote "worth". I will defend that position with all my heart and my soul.

I'm with you. You have to play the game to see the art, know why it is good, and to compare it against other games.

But they aren't trying to sell it to us. They want to create their market and sell it to people who probably have less knowledge. 

And personally I think the people that are all-in on sealed are annoying af and just here to scrape our thoughts since they don't play video games.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

The idea of potentially paying off my house with a single graded game is absolutely insane to me. The people buying games at these prices are in a completely different world than me. I'll definitely be curious to see sales over the next few months for mainstream titles or Mario 64 of a similar grade.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Andy_Bogomil

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

53 minutes ago, Aatos said:

Money laundering? Pyramid scheme where the still relatively low prices as of last week were artificially driven up ? Perhaps you should make it even way less ambiguous to those of us who can’t afford it?

 

40 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Oh yeah, and if anything this is probably the MOST reasonable explanation. Money laundering, or some sort of conspiracy to raise prices among a group of interested parties. Heck, it could even be people involved with WATA and HA pumping up the prices AGAIN, just like with the 100K Mario.

Less likely, it's a gamble by a speculator, as they would have to be exceptionally ill-informed to make that particular bet, and I can't imagine anyone being simultaneously that dumb and that rich. If it is, that's an epic and hilarious fail.

Finally, the chances this went to someone who actually appreciates it as a GAME or a fine cultural artifact, and just felt compelled to bid it up to infinity? I mean... I'd give that somewhere between 0.1% and NONE.

"we got these cases of sealed sm64's"....????"lets "sell" one for 1 million via our old boys club/grading company/millionaires auction site."

....or am i way off?

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

8 minutes ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

The idea of potentially paying off my house with a single graded game is absolutely insane to me. The people buying games at these prices are in a completely different world than me. I'll definitely be curious to see sales over the next few months for mainstream titles or Mario 64 of a similar grade.

when i actually think about how much $ some people have....welp...back to my bologna sandwich here...

[AdamW | 713]

58 minutes ago, OptOut said:

I am just thankful that it's only happening with the sealed stuff. They can have their own little enclave with the circus they've created for all I care. But DON'T call it video game collecting, it's not MY hobby.

Now, if someone actually came out and put a FACE to the game and the price, and said like "Hey it's me, James Rolfe AVGN, yeah I paid a million for that Mario 64 because I wanted it!" like I could RESPECT that! If it came from a genuine place of passion, with someone who wanted the game because it MEANT something to them then yeah.

But like this? Mysterious millionaires who clearly don't understand what they are buying? Secret cabals of speculators, market makers and manipulators, distorting and corrupting the objects of our obsession? It's just an obscene spectacle, frankly, it makes a mockery of the real feelings we all have for these old games.

I am unashamed in my determination to value these items for WHAT THEY ARE, and NOT what they are quote/unquote "worth". I will defend that position with all my heart and my soul.

I dunno about the super high end 6-7 figure stuff, but you can find a lot of the people buying 4-5 figure stuff in Facebook groups and on instagram. They're not mysterious shadow-lurkers.

I think there've been media stories about the people who bought previous record-priced games too, haven't there? I could be misremembering, though.

[OptOut | 8,884]

14 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

 

"we got these cases of sealed sm64's"....????"lets "sell" one for 1 million via our old boys club/grading company/millionaires auction site."

....or am i way off?

Well, it's more like "I'm rich as fuck and got a bunch of money from various shady/questionable dealings, and I need somewhere to store my money where the taxman can't get it."

Rich people who don't want to pay tax can buy a ludicrously inflated "investment collectable" and simply hold on to it indefinitely. It will either inflate in value over time, allowing them to cash out and pay a relatively small amount in capital gains tax, or they can just hold on to it and take out cheap loans secured against the value.

Rich people have been doing that sort of shit with fine art and antiques forever basically, and it's obviously happening with games now too.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

1 hour ago, Aatos said:

”Higher demand” is imo too simple explanation for 1.56 million pricepoint though. At least to me a demand implies there would be people lining up buying slightly lesser copies for proportionately lesser price, but I doubt that’s the case. If there were two extremely rich people competing for this resulting this price, it’s hardly yet evidence that there’s astronomically high demand for mint sealed SM64. Rather, for some reason that is beyond me, they thought this would make good investment somehow.

A PSA 10 michael jordan rookie sells for 200k

A PSA 9 SELLS FOR 20k

Difference is there are more than 300 psa 10s. There's only 2 known 9.8a++ Mario 64. Lower graded copies of the same game average between 10k-50k. Unless we see 298 more Mario 64 9.8a++, which I believe is unlikely, the price tag for this game in this condition will continue to increase.

[docile tapeworm | 4,198]

comparing holy grail rookie jordan to sm64?

i feel like sm64 might be like the Vince carter rookie card of video games. it was new and pretty good and a lot of people liked it but its not even a champion.

[AdamW | 713]

3 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Well, it's more like "I'm rich as fuck and got a bunch of money from various shady/questionable dealings, and I need somewhere to store my money where the taxman can't get it."

Rich people who don't want to pay tax can buy a ludicrously inflated "investment collectable" and simply hold on to it indefinitely. It will either inflate in value over time, allowing them to cash out and pay a relatively small amount in capital gains tax, or they can just hold on to it and take out cheap loans secured against the value.

Rich people have been doing that sort of shit with fine art and antiques forever basically, and it's obviously happening with games now too.

That doesn't really hold up, though. Most countries don't have a "wealth tax". You're not getting taxed anything at all just for having a lot of money. In most places you get taxed on income and transfers of money (sales taxes, property transfer taxes, those kinds of things). If all you want to do with $1.5m is leave it alone and not pay any tax on it, you can hold it in an account at any bank you like. (And take out loans against it if you want).

Preferential treatment of capital gains is a reason to put your money in assets you think might appreciate, but of course that would require that it actually does appreciate. Which doesn't really gel with the vague "money laundering" idea that keeps getting thrown out. I still haven't seen a convincing explanation of how exactly anyone would be laundering money through expensive video game purchases where there is a record (held by HA) of the identity of both buyer and seller that would be perfectly simple for enforcement authorities to access.

[jonebone | 1,307]

1 hour ago, Gulag Joe said:

Lol I've been watching those same auctions for the last 20 years and strongly disagree with your assumption of at least 500. There are a lot of players choice versions out there, but red label versions are few and far between. 

Respectfully, you haven't if you thought 60 was a good number.  You haven't watched much at all then.