Heritage Auctions Thread

[OptOut | 8,871]

2 minutes ago, Dumars2001 said:

I personally think it will, because the collectors that can't afford sealed in this 'new' videogame hobby that we are currently in, will have to go after CIB (or collectors that just collect loose carts) and if they want to grade them, they will be going after the carts that are in the best possible condition (minty) to try and get the highest possible grade from WATA (or the many other grading companies entering the market), so I think that collectors lower on the totem pole of collecting (not looking down at anyone here) will be looking for the best conditioned carts, which would theoretically drive up the prices on loose carts, but of course the very common carts in poor condition should stay about the same price.

 I quite possibly could be wrong and it won't have any affect on carts, but only time will tell, especially with all these new grading companies coming into the fray grading carts/CIBS. Just my very humble 2 cents.

Why do you assume that the vast majority of game collectors would EVER be interested in grading their games? Or would look at their games as investments as opposed to functional entertainment?

There is a lot of MONEY at the top in the rarefied air of the sealed/graded market. But there AREN'T that many actual PEOPLE in that market spending that money. You got maybe a couple hundred people willing to spend ridiculous sums on a handful of games. It's NOTHING compared to the MILLIONS of people who buy regular games at regular prices every day of the year.

You have been consumed by the hype.

[Dumars2001 | 164]

2 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Why do you assume that the vast majority of game collectors would EVER be interested in grading their games? Or would look at their games as investments as opposed to functional entertainment?

There is a lot of MONEY at the top in the rarefied air of the sealed/graded market. But there AREN'T that many actual PEOPLE in that market spending that money. You got maybe a couple hundred people willing to spend ridiculous sums on a handful of games. It's NOTHING compared to the MILLIONS of people who buy regular games at regular prices every day of the year.

You have been consumed by the hype.

Yeah fair points! It just seems like with all the new Auction Houses and grading companies entering the market, that more people will want to "make money" and have their games graded. Like, I said, just my humble opinion. I have been wrong many times in the past and very well could be way off base here, but I personally think the hobby is trending in this direction. 

[OptOut | 8,871]

1 minute ago, Dumars2001 said:

Yeah fair points! It just seems like with all the new Auction Houses and grading companies entering the market, that more people will want to "make money" and have their games graded. Like, I said, just my humble opinion. I have been wrong many times in the past and very well could be way off base here, but I personally think the hobby is trending in this direction. 

It may indeed be the case that we continue to see more people entering the graded market, sure. We have already seen that growth the last 2 years. But if this market is to become more accessible to more people, then prices would have to normalise DRAMATICALLY compared to where they are right now for even averagely wealthy people to get involved.

The only people involved in this market right now are the supremely wealthy (I mean that much is self-evident) and people who might hope to become so, putting their life savings and/or borrowed money into increasingly risky "investments".

Your average Joe Beer-can buying a beat up copy of Contra for 50 bucks, or even someone like myself who DOES spend thousands of dollars on games each year (that's GAMES PLURAL, as in hundreds of them for less than the price of even a FRACTION of a single sealed game), WE just don't see the value or necessity in engaging with that market.

Do you really think I or others here might be particularly envious of the guy who just spent a million dollars on a copy of Zelda? I have that game. I paid 20 bucks for it 20 years ago. 

If you want any more proof, maybe you should look here and see what young new collectors are spending their money on these days. Not old rich white dudes with ZERO knowledge of video games, but kids interested in the hobby, you know the ACTUAL hobby:

https://www.videogamesage.com/forums/topic/7861-the-new-breed-of-collectors-thread/

They aren't even buying the real thing. I don't agree with that, of course, but it goes to show the allure of these items transcends the physical, the literal, the genuine. The VALUE of these items is NOT first and foremost a monetary one. That is how the majority of us feel.

[Dumars2001 | 164]

12 minutes ago, OptOut said:

It may indeed be the case that we continue to see more people entering the graded market, sure. We have already seen that growth the last 2 years. But if this market is to become more accessible to more people, then prices would have to normalise DRAMATICALLY compared to where they are right now for even averagely wealthy people to get involved.

The only people involved in this market right now are the supremely wealthy (I mean that much is self-evident) and people who might hope to become so, putting their life savings and/or borrowed money into increasingly risky "investments".

Your average Joe Beer-can buying a beat up copy of Contra for 50 bucks, or even someone like myself who DOES spend thousands of dollars on games each year (that's GAMES PLURAL, as in hundreds of them for less than the price of even a FRACTION of a single sealed game), WE just don't see the value or necessity in engaging with that market.

Do you really think I or others here might be particularly envious of the guy who just spent a million dollars on a copy of Zelda? I have that game. I paid 20 bucks for it 20 years ago. 

If you want any more proof, maybe you should look here and see what young new collectors are spending their money on these days. Not old rich white dudes with ZERO knowledge of video games, but kids interested in the hobby, you know the ACTUAL hobby:

https://www.videogamesage.com/forums/topic/7861-the-new-breed-of-collectors-thread/

They aren't even buying the real thing. I don't agree with that, of course, but it goes to show the allure of these items transcends the physical, the literal, the genuine. The VALUE of these items is NOT first and foremost a monetary one. That is how the majority of us feel.

Very well said/written and I agree with many of your points. yes, the overwhelming majority of collectors is the average Joe.

[OptOut | 8,871]

4 minutes ago, Dumars2001 said:

Very well said/written and I agree with many of your points. yes, the overwhelming majority of collectors is the average Joe.

I mean yeah, don't get me wrong I enjoy watching the auctions and the high prices there as well! I DON'T necessarily agree that the only way prices are going is up, indefinitely, and I am sure a lot of the money that has already been spent on certain items may be looked back upon as huge errors for some games. But it is certainly interesting to watch.

However, as far as I'm concerned, as a genuine retro gamer, collector and enthusiast, I look at that market the same way I would look at the market for crypto currency or MTG cards or something. It's not MY hobby, you know, it's a separate thing IMO, with the BAREST links to what I am actually doing over here in my hobby.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

1 hour ago, Dumars2001 said:

I personally think it will, because the collectors that can't afford sealed in this 'new' videogame hobby that we are currently in, will have to go after CIB (or collectors that just collect loose carts) and if they want to grade them, they will be going after the carts that are in the best possible condition (minty) to try and get the highest possible grade from WATA (or the many other grading companies entering the market), so I think that collectors lower on the totem pole of collecting (not looking down at anyone here) will be looking for the best conditioned carts, which would theoretically drive up the prices on loose carts, but of course the very common carts in poor condition should stay about the same price.

 I quite possibly could be wrong and it won't have any affect on carts, but only time will tell, especially with all these new grading companies coming into the fray grading carts/CIBS. Just my very humble 2 cents.

I appreciate your lively enthusiasm for these crazy ass auctions, but if you think buying a slabbed zelda for a million bucks is in the same hobby (hell, same universe) as video game collecting, you are sorely, sorely mistaken...

[Dumars2001 | 164]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I appreciate your lively enthusiasm for these crazy ass auctions, but if you think buying a slabbed zelda for a million bucks is in the same hobby (hell, same universe) as video game collecting, you are sorely, sorely mistaken...

No, I know their are now 2 sides on the fence. The old school collector and the new school collector. The facts don't lie. I used to think these auctions couldn't possibly be real prices, but auction after auction, prices continue to go up. We now have Goldin Auctions entering the fray, Comic Connect is here, LGS Auctions, Certified Links Auction house, etc. We have new grading companies popping up left and right these days, with CCG about to enter. 

Times have definitely changed and collecting as we once new it, will never ever come back (sadly), that much I do know for certain. I certainly respect everyone's opinions, but this is just my view and 2 cents on the current video game market.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Dumars2001

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

4 minutes ago, Dumars2001 said:

No, I know their are now 2 sides on the fence. The old school collector and the new school collector. The facts don't lie. I used to think these auctions couldn't possibly be real prices, but auction after auction, prices continue to go up. We now have Goldin Auctions entering the fray, Comic Connect is here, LGS Auctions, Certified Links Auction house, etc. We have new grading companies popping up left and right these days, with CCG about to enter. 

Times have definitely changed and collecting as we once new it, will never ever come back (sadly), that much I do know for certain. I certainly respect everyone's opinions, but this is just my view and 2 cents on the current video game market.

 

I'm not saying the prices aren't "real" or the new norm, I'm just saying that it's not the same hobby...

[Dumars2001 | 164]

Just now, Dr. Morbis said:

I'm not saying the prices aren't "real" or the new norm, I'm just saying that it's not the same hobby...

Gotcha and I 100% agree with you:).

[Dumars2001 | 164]

47 minutes ago, OptOut said:

I mean yeah, don't get me wrong I enjoy watching the auctions and the high prices there as well! I DON'T necessarily agree that the only way prices are going is up, indefinitely, and I am sure a lot of the money that has already been spent on certain items may be looked back upon as huge errors for some games. But it is certainly interesting to watch.

However, as far as I'm concerned, as a genuine retro gamer, collector and enthusiast, I look at that market the same way I would look at the market for crypto currency or MTG cards or something. It's not MY hobby, you know, it's a separate thing IMO, with the BAREST links to what I am actually doing over here in my hobby.

Very well said!

[OptOut | 8,871]

13 minutes ago, Dumars2001 said:

No, I know their are now 2 sides on the fence. The old school collector and the new school collector. The facts don't lie. I used to think these auctions couldn't possibly be real prices, but auction after auction, prices continue to go up. We now have Goldin Auctions entering the fray, Comic Connect is here, LGS Auctions, Certified Links Auction house, etc. We have new grading companies popping up left and right these days, with CCG about to enter. 

Times have definitely changed and collecting as we once new it, will never ever come back (sadly), that much I do know for certain. I certainly respect everyone's opinions, but this is just my view and 2 cents on the current video game market.

 

It's not really tho, it's just monied interests moving money around. It's NOT a passionate upsurge of young collectors falling over themselves to dump hundreds of thousands of dollars into sealed games. It's ALREADY wealthy people looking for a new asset class to store wealth.

A handful of boomers who got rich during the good times and need to hide their money from the government or inflation, and a bunch of old card and comic book collectors looking to diversify their collectables assets doesn't exactly make for a VIBRANT or necessarily HEALTHY market, regardless of the prices we're seeing.

 

All you need to do to prove this is look around here. This group of collectors in this community have been at the head of every movement, we were collecting before it was cool, we were paying attention to condition and rarity and variants and gathering sealed games before they were worth anything, and even bought into the concept of game grading when it seemed superfluous.

BUT, ask yourself. What are we doing now? Are we buying IN or selling OUT? If we are not the intended BUYERS in this new market, and you have already admitted that the average Joe and upcoming young kids aren't buying 70 thousand dollar video games, then where are your "NEW COLLECTORS" coming from exactly?

Just more and more old white guys? Is that REALLY a sustainable future? Is it a growth market? Could their interests and motivations for investing in games EVER really replace or transpose onto the millions and millions of us who are already here or getting into it from the bottom up rather than the top down?

I mean, I think that market is growing and will grow, but you have to see how STARKLY separate and truly DIFFERENT it is from the actual retro hobby?

[guitarzombie | 923]

20 minutes ago, Dumars2001 said:

Times have definitely changed and collecting as we once new it, will never ever come back (sadly), that much I do know for certain. 

I didn't know you could predict the future?  How aren't you mega famous?  Anything we should worry about that we can prepare for?

[inasuma | 1,202]

8 minutes ago, guitarzombie said:

I didn't know you could predict the future?  How aren't you mega famous?  Anything we should worry about that we can prepare for?

While no one can predict the future, one thing is for certain: for the foreseeable future collecting games in good condition, in box with paperwork, will be very difficult. Even worse if you’re after sealed copies.

[Dumars2001 | 164]

53 minutes ago, guitarzombie said:

I didn't know you could predict the future?  How aren't you mega famous?  Anything we should worry about that we can prepare for?

I am just following a trend that has been going on for around 3 years now and correct me if I am wrong, there seems to be be more and more people/companies/main stream media entering/talking about the world of video games with each passing day. Kinda like how comics, cards, stamps, coins, action figures, etc grew, is happening to video games now.  Just my humble 2 cents.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Dumars2001

[Dumars2001 | 164]

39 minutes ago, inasuma said:

While no one can predict the future, one thing is for certain: for the foreseeable future collecting games in good condition, in box with paperwork, will be very difficult. Even worse if you’re after sealed copies.

100% correct sir!

[OptOut | 8,871]

2 hours ago, Dumars2001 said:

 Just my very humble 2 cents.

 

1 hour ago, Dumars2001 said:

but this is just my view and 2 cents on the current video game market.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Dumars2001 said:

 Just my humble 2 cents.

 

Yeah, that's like 6 cents already! Looks like your "humble" opinion is inflating quicker than the graded market itself!

[Dumars2001 | 164]

3 minutes ago, OptOut said:

 

 

 

Yeah, that's like 6 cents already! Looks like your "humble" opinion is inflating quicker than the graded market itself!

LOL. I just don't want to ruffle any feathers here with my thoughts because I know how sensitive people can be when they don't agree with something. Just tryin to kill'em with kindness, lol. Let me add another 2 cents here:).

Edited July 10, 2021 by Dumars2001

[OptOut | 8,871]

1 minute ago, Dumars2001 said:

LOL. I just don't want to ruffle any feathers here with my thoughts because I know how sensitive people can be when they don't agree with something. Just tryin to kill'em with kindness, lol. Let me add another 2 cents here:).

Oh my God, your opinion is gonna be worth a whole DOLLAR by tomorrow at this rate, lol! Can I invest in YOU by any chance? 

I know we disagree on this particular matter, but I love your positive energy!  

[Dumars2001 | 164]

27 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Oh my God, your opinion is gonna be worth a whole DOLLAR by tomorrow at this rate, lol! Can I invest in YOU by any chance? 

I know we disagree on this particular matter, but I love your positive energy!  

Hahaha! It is all love brother! We have a great community and a lot of good people in the hobby, especially here on VGS.

[Dumars2001 | 164]

I looked back at some previous Heritage Auction sales and there were so many unbelievable/massive price increases of games sold during yesterday's auction (and some from only back in April this year) of the same game and in most/some cases a lower grade of the same game, out selling a previous higher graded same titled game (Some by 5 or even 6 figures more in $$$'s)

This comparison (out of many) obviously takes the cake though!

Nes Zelda Rev A round Seal WATA 9.0 sold on November 22nd for $19,200 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/the-legend-of-zelda-rev-a-round-soq-carolina-collection-wata-90-a-sealed-nes-nintendo-1987-usa/a/7212-93027.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Nes Zelda No Rev A round Seal WATA 9.0 sold (yesterday) on July 9th for $870.000

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/the-legend-of-zelda-wata-90-a-sealed-no-rev-a-round-soq-early-production-nes-nintendo-1987-usa/a/7261-28030.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Is a Non Rev A copy worth $851,000 more than an exact graded 9.0 Rev A copy or has the market gone completely bonkers?!

We might look back (or prices could come back crashing to Earth) at yesterday's prices in a year from now and think the prices were low/a bargain after Heritage House's next Signature Auction next spring, if this trend continues.

[OptOut | 8,871]

5 minutes ago, Dumars2001 said:

Is a Non Rev A copy worth $851,000 more than an exact graded 9.0 Rev A copy 

[sp1nz | 610]

Only reason the market continues to heat up is because there are multiple people with more money than sense or ulterior motives for spending that much on those items. Appreciation of hundreds of thousands of dollars in a year or less is just stupid to me, even if in Zelda's case they are different variants. The insane premium for most items is for a literal plastic wrap. It doesn't change my view on the matter, if in a few years the same Zelda is worth multiple million dollars. Über rich people are just swooping into something that they don't know or care about beyond dollar signs. An unopened early print of original NES Zelda in great condition is ought to be worth a decent amount but these people be speculating - in future the circlejerk is near only place they can even sell to, but with enough incestuous hype I guess anything is possible. Let's put the plastic wrap on the 870k Zelda into perspective: you could probably buy every Nintendo CIB set in your region and still be left with a ton of money - would you rather have the Zelda or the Nintendo collection?

[Hammerfestus | 3,816]

4 hours ago, Dumars2001 said:

No, I know their are now 2 sides on the fence. The old school collector and the new school collector. The facts don't lie. I used to think these auctions couldn't possibly be real prices, but auction after auction, prices continue to go up. We now have Goldin Auctions entering the fray, Comic Connect is here, LGS Auctions, Certified Links Auction house, etc. We have new grading companies popping up left and right these days, with CCG about to enter. 

Times have definitely changed and collecting as we once new it, will never ever come back (sadly), that much I do know for certain. I certainly respect everyone's opinions, but this is just my view and 2 cents on the current video game market.

 

[GPX | 1,366]

1 hour ago, sp1nz said:

Only reason the market continues to heat up is because there are multiple people with more money than sense or ulterior motives for spending that much on those items. Appreciation of hundreds of thousands of dollars in a year or less is just stupid to me, even if in Zelda's case they are different variants. The insane premium for most items is for a literal plastic wrap. It doesn't change my view on the matter, if in a few years the same Zelda is worth multiple million dollars. Über rich people are just swooping into something that they don't know or care about beyond dollar signs. An unopened early print of original NES Zelda in great condition is ought to be worth a decent amount but these people be speculating - in future the circlejerk is near only place they can even sell to, but with enough incestuous hype I guess anything is possible. Let's put the plastic wrap on the 870k Zelda into perspective: you could probably buy every Nintendo CIB set in your region and still be left with a ton of money - would you rather have the Zelda or the Nintendo collection?

I don't like how "rich speculators" are all grouped into the one entity.

I mean, I consider myself part-collector, part-speculator, but come on...any sensible speculation does not involve the following formula:

- spend 2000% on a game (from previous value)

- then hope one day it goes up to 3000%

What happened to "buy low, sell high" principle?

 

[jonebone | 1,307]

You also have to realize that people go in with each other sometimes, or that there are new companies that sell fractional sales of collectibles.

Not saying it'd be "easy", but one of those companies could buy that Zelda for $870k and then list it for $1M with fractional shares, say $100 a piece for 10,000 owners.  I bet those shares would sell out in a day, then the "market cap" on it is $1M.  The company who bought it gets back their investment and some and gets to pump it to the moon.

The sealed graded market on key titles is likely never cooling off.  What typically happens is one of these signature auctions goes off and everything close to relevant gets bought off ebay and then it cools for a bit until next signature auction.  I really thought some of these sales would underperform due to summer time lull and post-covid reopening but if that didn't do it then nothing will.