CodysGameRoom | 2,009 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 9 hours ago, WalterWhiteJr. said: The only people coming out to defend the indefensible are those that are heavily invested in graded games and need the market to continue being propped up or those that have already heavily profited and need the market to appear legitimate to validate them. 1 hour ago, LifeGame said: Im a sealed/graded games defender 1 hour ago, LifeGame said: ive had one of my best 2 weeks selling my sealed (not graded) games so your conspiracy story just won’t change anything even if you really want it to… 9 hours ago, WalterWhiteJr. said: It is kind of sad to see so many downplay ethics and transparency. 1 hour ago, LifeGame said: as for Haspel selling his games on ebay, who gives a shit about his 500$ Atari games that he is selling Literally laughable, lol 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhiteJr. | 1,181 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, LifeGame said: So every bid for any sealed or graded games in the whole universe is a shill bid now ? ive had one of my best 2 weeks selling my sealed (not graded) games so your conspiracy story just won’t change anything even if you really want it to… Not related to you or your post but since im posting : as for Haspel selling his games on ebay, who gives a shit about his 500$ Atari games that he is selling, you really think WATA would jeopardize their integrity by giving him preferential grading on these silly cheap ass games nobody wants !!! Come the …. on ! No, I don't think every bid in the universe is a shill bid. I also don't think every bid in the universe is a legitimate bid. I think there is ALOT more shilling than people want to admit. Whether it is from the actual seller, or a third-party that owns that game and has an interest in making sure it sells for XYZ price. This is not rocket science, nor is this a new thing. How is my theory that people shill a conspiracy theory? It has literally been proven time and time again. Just look at the recent PWCC/eBay scam. I give a shit about Haspel selling graded Wata games on eBay. It is NOT the price that matters. It is the fact that he is doing it. He may have insider information that noone else knows. It is an AWFUL look and one that reeks of conflict. And yes, I absolutely think Wata would jeapoardize their integrity. What integrity anyway? That all went out the window when they hopped into bed with good ole Jimmy boy. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John198X | 55 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) I'm very appreciative of everything Frank Cifaldi has done and continues to do, but his comments on this controversy on the most recent Insert Credit podcast were extremely disappointing. What I got from it: People who are mad about Heritage/WATA are either laughably naïve, because sketchy business is endemic to capitalism, or they are gatekeeper types only concerned about who should be allowed to buy old games. Calling out shitty business practices, regardless of how common, is somehow comparable to gamergate nonsense? What the fuck is that? Edited September 7, 2021 by John198X 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeGame | 767 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said: Literally laughable, lol Good argument, and also editing in part what i wrote to only see what you want to see, very easy way to argue… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeGame | 767 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, WalterWhiteJr. said: No, I don't think every bid in the universe is a shill bid. I also don't think every bid in the universe is a legitimate bid. I think there is ALOT more shilling than people want to admit. Whether it is from the actual seller, or a third-party that owns that game and has an interest in making sure it sells for XYZ price. This is not rocket science, nor is this a new thing. How is my theory that people shill a conspiracy theory? It has literally been proven time and time again. Just look at the recent PWCC/eBay scam. I give a shit about Haspel selling graded Wata games on eBay. It is NOT the price that matters. It is the fact that he is doing it. He may have insider information that noone else knows. It is an AWFUL look and one that reeks of conflict. And yes, I absolutely think Wata would jeapoardize their integrity. What integrity anyway? That all went out the window when they hopped into bed with good ole Jimmy boy. For the conspiracy part i meant the whole thing not just the shills, dont forget that Trump is in it as well…(not saying you said that at all but need to mention it again as it is the most ridiculous thing ive heard in a long time) There is no way they would give preferential grading for such low end stuff, this is peanuts, atoms even for their numbers, they would not do that unless they are the stupidest business team ever… Finally, the words MAY HAVE pretty much say it all…i MAY run for florida governor/senator/whatever in the next election( im Canadian ), you can do/say anything using the word MAY have a good may Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeGame | 767 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,997 Administrator · Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Just now, LifeGame said: Eh Yes? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRobot | 5,862 Events Team · Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeGame | 767 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Crystalis88 said: So you believe he only graded Atari games? I dont know so i don’t assume/pretend anything…but i give benefit of the doubt unless clear evidence is given, if he didn’t have any preferential treatment or inside info or whatever else then i have no issue with it even if i wasnt into video games at all just my opinion as a normal citizen. I mean if i started a grading company and couldn’t have my collection authenticated in full transparency/with no preferential treatment with said company i would be really unhappy/sad about it as a collector, i can see the clear conflict possible in the eyes of others of course but these are my honest thoughts. Edited September 7, 2021 by LifeGame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodysGameRoom | 2,009 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 21 minutes ago, LifeGame said: Good argument, and also editing in part what i wrote to only see what you want to see, very easy way to argue… Oh, you misunderstood. I wasn't arguing, I was just laughing at the accuracy in @WalterWhiteJr. statement. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer | 188 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 54 minutes ago, JamesRobot said: Take off, you knob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inasuma | 1,215 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 4 hours ago, LifeGame said: Lol you haven’t seem my previous posts, i thought my sarcasm was obvious, Im a sealed/graded games defender Oh, woops. Ignore me then. I thought you were saying that since they all had 15 bidders then that must mean **~*~~~*C O N S P I R A C Y**~*~~~*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup | 2,435 Administrator · Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 We should be careful not to misconstrue or confuse that there are two VERY different debates happening. One of those, is about sealed/graded games, and whether they are good or bad, etc etc. While some people believe that ALSO, the main issue / discussion is about the business practices that have been discussed, and whether or not they are ethical and/or whether or not they have impacted the market/hobby/others in certain ways. There is absolutely a segment of people here, who have no problem with sealed games or grading, but who DO have a problem with potential conflicts of interest, potential unethical practices, and the allegations that have been made, etc. I think the distinction is worth explicitly pointing out, because the discussion / debate here is not just about/against sealed and graded games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkKobold | 214 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Has anyone noticed the other fallout to this debacle? It's not just WATA games that are fake prices, but now you see ALL video games are fake prices to some in the community. Between that tweet that went viral, which read like a fanfic about evil video game sellers, to this recent video: I like RetroGamerBoy, but he's dead wrong here. There's three copies across the entire world on eBay of that game. Meanwhile, there's 5 or so authentic Crusader of Centy on eBay, a game that sells for 2x as much. It seems to me like the rarity caught up with the price. He presents no actual evidence of people buying their own, and instead just asserts he "knows" the value of the game is only $350. That irks me quite a bit. The "value" of the game is MSRP. Everything beyond that is the extrinsic collector's value. There's no reason that you can suggest that this game is worth $350, but not worth $1200. Both of those are made-up collector prices. The irony of this video is he's all but cemented the price. FOMO is more likely to hit here, and he's now painted a target on this game, worse than it had before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultGen | 5,569 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, DarkKobold said: Has anyone noticed the other fallout to this debacle? It's not just WATA games that are fake prices, but now you see ALL video games are fake prices to some in the community. Between that tweet that went viral, which read like a fanfic about evil video game sellers, to this recent video: I like RetroGamerBoy, but he's dead wrong here. There's three copies across the entire world on eBay of that game. Meanwhile, there's 5 or so authentic Crusader of Centy on eBay, a game that sells for 2x as much. It seems to me like the rarity caught up with the price. He presents no actual evidence of people buying their own, and instead just asserts he "knows" the value of the game is only $350. That irks me quite a bit. The "value" of the game is MSRP. Everything beyond that is the extrinsic collector's value. There's no reason that you can suggest that this game is worth $350, but not worth $1200. Both of those are made-up collector prices. The irony of this video is he's all but cemented the price. FOMO is more likely to hit here, and he's now painted a target on this game, worse than it had before. Even if the £800 sale was fake, someone making a Youtube video and getting 1000s of random people who weren’t even thinking about that game to look at your sale is literally the best outcome for the seller. Even if every single person thinks the £800 sale is fake, there will be people worried others are going to fomo into it so they fomo into it themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkchylde28 | 1,546 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, John198X said: I'm very appreciative of everything Frank Cifaldi has done and continues to do, but his comments on this controversy on the most recent Insert Credit podcast were extremely disappointing. What I got from it: People who are mad about Heritage/WATA are either laughably naïve, because sketchy business is endemic to capitalism, or they are gatekeeper types only concerned about who should be allowed to buy old games. Calling out shitty business practices, regardless of how common, is somehow comparable to gamergate nonsense? What the fuck is that? Just being jealous? (Of people willing to be outspoken about the need for/lack of transparency, absolute disdain for a lack of ethics, etc.?) 9 hours ago, LifeGame said: I dont know so i don’t assume/pretend anything…but i give benefit of the doubt unless clear evidence is given, if he didn’t have any preferential treatment or inside info or whatever else then i have no issue with it even if i wasnt into video games at all just my opinion as a normal citizen. Dude, you're not even willing to publicly consider what all of the factually verifiable evidence could be (and likely is) pointing at, so why not make an accurate statement instead of playing at being "fair and balanced?" An accurate statement based on all of your posts in this thread would be, "I give the benefit of the doubt until a jury has convicted them (and all appeals have been exhausted)." Edited September 8, 2021 by darkchylde28 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliboy24 | 47 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 8 hours ago, LifeGame said: So every bid for any sealed or graded games in the whole universe is a shill bid now ? ive had one of my best 2 weeks selling my sealed (not graded) games so your conspiracy story just won’t change anything even if you really want it to… Not related to you or your post but since im posting : as for Haspel selling his games on ebay, who gives a shit about his 500$ Atari games that he is selling, you really think WATA would jeopardize their integrity by giving him preferential grading on these silly cheap ass games nobody wants !!! Come the …. on ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeGame | 767 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said: Dude, you're not even willing to publicly consider what all of the factually verifiable evidence could (and likely is) pointing at, so why not make an accurate statement instead of playing at being "fair and balanced?" An accurate statement based on all of your posts in this thread would be, "I give the benefit of the doubt until a jury has convicted them (and all appeals have been exhausted)." Haha almost but maybe not that much, Deniz going on pawn stars and saying this mario is worth X is perfectly fine with me, if someone takes his word as gospel well… Please show me evidence and not suppositions/speculation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX | 1,376 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 26 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said: An accurate statement based on all of your posts in this thread would be, "I give the benefit of the doubt until a jury has convicted them (and all appeals have been exhausted)." Still not enough for me. I’d like further confirmation with a public beating, filmed and then verified on YouTube. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a3quit4s | 4,157 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 This thread has lost its luster. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Monkey | 2,036 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 I am now dumber for having read this. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeGame | 767 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Caliboy24 said: Well he is certainly not hiding it so he wouldnt incriminate himself ? Would he ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystalis88 | 30 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Just now, LifeGame said: Well he is certainly not hiding it so he wouldnt incriminate himself ? Would he ? Those are some amazing high grades! Freshly graded too! What a “collector”! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkchylde28 | 1,546 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Just now, LifeGame said: Haha almost but maybe not that much, Deniz going on pawn stars and saying this mario is worth X is perfectly fine with me, if someone takes his word as gospel well… Please show me evidence and not suppositions/speculation ? Watch the Jobst video if you haven't already. He displays nearly all of the information that's come to light and verifiable within it, and as it's obvious that you're so entrenched (or invested? haha) that no one would ever change your mind that I'm not going to hunt up links that you most likely won't bother to read. There's Halperin's/Heritage's huge fine in the 80s from the FTC. There's the SEC filings showing various folks coming into WATA as investors/board members (quite different from folks investing in a publicly traded company, seeing as neither you nor I would have been able to buy shares of WATA prior to its recent purchase). There's the NYT article quoting Deniz about how WATA employees weren't allowed to grade games through the surface of traffic them combo'd with the recent evidence Seth Abramson revealed about one of WATA's founders, initial investors, and per-their-website Chief Advisor (listed alongside the executives of the company) making plenty of bank selling WATA graded sealed Atari cartridges. Deniz going on Pawn Stars the way he did causes all sorts of ethics issues if nothing else, so your lack of concern about that and total endorsement of how he handled the situation (presumably because it helped you make bank in all of this) speaks volumes about your own ethics and moral fiber. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliboy24 | 47 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, LifeGame said: Well he is certainly not hiding it so he wouldnt incriminate himself ? Would he ? It's no longer on his FB page 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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