Game Debate #3: Metroid

[RH | 5,058]

This was definitely a childhood favorite.  I only gave it a 9 because this was rare case when the sequel out did the original.  Metroid 2 is a 10 for me, because it improved in every possible way, it had save points and it told a story without even using words. Super Metroid falls back into the 9 of 10 ranking but it's just below the original.  Granted it is a much better game Metroid, but that's only because they could do more with the SNES, plus they were making their third game in the series and were refining the process.

Metroid was such a groundbreaking game and so consuming for me, it beats out Super Metroid but only marginally.  It sucked me in and I remember spending hours on it and it was probably one of only 2-3 original NES titles I played until I could beat it.  Before I had discovered RPGs as a kid, this was my type of game.

EDIT

Oh, and I've never played it but I think someone has patched Metroid to include an in-game map.  This day and age, if you've never played it, I'd recommend using that version.  I tend to say "enjoy games as they were meant to be enjoyed" but unless you grew up being completely lost in the caverns of Zebes in the 80's, it could be too annoying to try to learn your way around so many caverns that look alike.  I mean, that was partially the limitation of the game and system so I don't blame the design.  I'm sure they could have added a map if they had the time, but it was either not considered, or dropped due to lack of time.

Anyway, I do tend to encourage people to enjoy a game as it was created for historical context, but this is one exception where I take no issue with someone playing a ROM patch with a map.  I do recommend leaving the painful need to heal by standing in front of the enemy wells.  Yes, it sucks and is probably the worst part of the game, but it is what it is.  You can either be patient and make life "easy" or you can take the game at it's frantic pace and make it harder.  It's like a built in "easy" switch.

Edited June 26, 2020 by RH

[G-type | 2,672]

I love the music and atmosphere of Metroid. It could be better, but its still deserves a lot of credit. I think it was the first game that scrolled in four direction?

[G-type | 2,672]

31 minutes ago, RH said:

Oh, and I've never played it but I think someone has patched Metroid to include an in-game map. 

this one includes a save system, in game map on the pause screen, and adds the ability to combine ice/wave beams

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1186/

[Jicsan | 592]

I have very fond nostalgic feelings for the original Metroid.  I think it's still so strong in my memories because the levels of frustration and joy were so high.  I'd be so frustrated at being lost forever, only to finally figure something out and be over the moon with joy to progress again.  I'd made my own maps on graph paper too, but I lacked the fore site to keep them.   I give it a nine, despite its frustrating flaws, it was a masterpiece in it's time.  It's only hard to revisit now because it's sequels (Super Metroid in particular) and remake fixed/refined so much.  In modern times though, if I was playing Metroid for the first time, I wouldn't have the time or patience that it would require to fully appreciate it.  Thank you, twelve year old me, for making those memories!

[Reed Rothchild | 9,681]

13 hours ago, OptOut said:

Oof! I really WANT to love this game, I'm a big fan of basically all the other Metroid games!

As far as I'm concerned, the gameplay is great, the enemies are fun to fight and the weapons fun to use. Exploration is decent too, although the passages don't have as much variety as perhaps they could.

However, for me the game is absolutely SUNK by a single fatal flaw. After you die or load from password, you start with only 30 health regardless of your energy tanks or where you are in the game.

This ABSOLUTELY kills the game for me, I can NOT be fucked to stand next to one of those enemy tubes and grind health for like half an hour every time I die or reload.

Just because of that one flaw, I just can't play the game, it's really unfortunate. It's a 6 from me I'm afraid.

The remake on GBA, Zero Mission was tops tho, fixed up basically everything wrong with the game!

Pretty much mirrors my own thoughts.

I've beat the other seven Metroid games I own, but I never completed the original.  Why?  It's just too aggravating to put up with.  Almost like it's the beta version, or proof of concept, for the fully realized vision that was Super Metroid.

Of course I'm the SNES guy who didn't grow up with an NES, so take the bias in stride.

[zeppelin03 | 314]

All these rom hacks being shown really have me considering a playthough.  I might start with the map patch then try the health one over it.

I try to stick to the original vision but this year realized I would rather mod a game to get it where I need it.  Once I heard Hollow Knight has some strange mapping choices related to charms I modded that to resolve the issue.  No regrets making minor adjustments to enjoy a game on a first playthrough anymore.

[Foochie776 | 1,066]

I tried like hell to enjoy the original but ooof, that’s tough. 
 

I still need to try one of the many sequels 

[DefaultGen | 5,569]

To everyone complaining about needing to refuel when you die, Metroid isn't a super long game (as an adult where you already understand how the genre works at least). It's pretty reasonable that you could beat it in one long sitting. You don't die enough over the course of a single playthrough where spending a few minutes grinding health is really that big of a drag IMO, and once you get the screw attack and a couple energy tanks it's no issue at all because you'll be dying way less and refilling is super quick. I think most NES games are way more punishing, on average making you replay multiple levels if not the entire game when you die.

Edited June 26, 2020 by DefaultGen

[glazball | 175]

One of my favorite NES games, though it brings up 2 painful memories from bitd.

1. Probably all of us did this at least once: mis-transcribed the password when writing it down, and I couldn't get it to work later.  Had to restart the game from an older password

2. I had the Nintendo Player's Guide with the oh-so-helpful map(s) inside, but I came home from school one day to find that my dog chewed up the pages because I had left it open to those pages.  I was very, very upset to say the least!

[LutherDestroysTheGond | 690]

I always got very frustrated playing this one as a kid.  I eventually played it one day and drew a map on graph paper as I went and that helped out tremendously and made it much less confusing and beatable.  Great game.   Beating it felt like an accomplishment back then

[Strange | 1,706]

It’s not bad by any metric but certainly a product of its time. For people willing to put up with the roadblocks, it’s great. But for those of us who have been spoiled by Super and Zero Mission - it’s tough to go back.

Hard for me to pin a number on this one.

[twiztor | 858]

Metroid is the first game i played during my COVID-cation. i had messed around with it a little bit as a kid, but didn't make it very far and didn't know where to go. It was never a game i owned, and neither did any of my friends. Just a rare rental. Anyway, this year i wanted to dedicate time to play through this old school. Sat down with paper and drew my own maps and explored. Trudged through every passage, bombed every wall. At first, the 'starting with only 30 health' thing was a major drag, but not very far into the game it's really a moot point. 

I LOVE THIS GAME. I was hooked. this game rocketed onto my top 5 NES titles, just based on this one playthrough. I followed it up with Metroid II and Super Metroid, both excellent games in their own right, but i just wanted to play the original again. and again. 

[Link | 2,815]

I always get lost. 

14 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

Here’s my personal map because maps are cool

Very nice! My maps always get out of control for some reason.

[MeganJoanne | 365]

I've played 5 Metroid games, The original, the Gameboy sequel, Super Metroid, and the two Gameboy advance games, enjoyed them all, though will say that the 2nd game is the weakest of the lot, and while I like many things about Super Metroid, Metroid Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion, the first game still remains my favorite, and why is because of the ease to just get in and start playing with total freedom to explore once you aquire a few items and can explore in whatever way you want, no story to break it up, no telling you where to go next, no forcing you along a certain path until you accomplish a certain thing.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

4 hours ago, Link said:

I always get lost. 

Very nice! My maps always get out of control for some reason.

Mine weren't very good either. At least now I can just pull up a map online on my phone while I'm playing or just print one out.

[mbd39 | 2,039]

8/10

Groundbreaking as hell, great atmosphere, great music, challenging. Main gripe is the cumbersome passwords

 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

1 minute ago, mbd39 said:

8/10

Groundbreaking as hell, great atmosphere, great music, challenging. Main gripe is the cumbersome passwords

 

I'm pretty sure where it says "Password Pak" on the box is meant to be a warning label instead of a feature.

[RH | 5,058]

Two pages in and no one's pointing out how groundbreaking (or glass ceiling breaking) it was when we learned that Mr. Samus was... A GIRL?!?! I mean, that alone was notable.

There were certainly other notable, strong, female roles before that era within pop culture, but to my knowledge she was the first in Western games.

We may all be aware of this but I imagine that at least to a few, this may weigh in on your scoring.

[Jeevan | 9,100]

Played this as a kid.  didn't get too far because it was a little confusing on paths to take etc.  and my older brother always beat me to playing lol.  

That being said, I really want to get a copy and play it through fully.  I think the password system sux, I remember that being a big drawback as a kid.  

8/10 for me, super metro is is quite a,bit better.

[Br81zad | 629]

3 hours ago, MeganJoanne said:

I've played 5 Metroid games, The original, the Gameboy sequel, Super Metroid, and the two Gameboy advance games, enjoyed them all, though will say that the 2nd game is the weakest of the lot, and while I like many things about Super Metroid, Metroid Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion, the first game still remains my favorite, and why is because of the ease to just get in and start playing with total freedom to explore once you aquire a few items and can explore in whatever way you want, no story to break it up, no telling you where to go next, no forcing you along a certain path until you accomplish a certain thing.

I urge you to give AM2R a try. I played through it using a SNES controller (via usb adapter). It was incredibly well made and a ton of fun.

[rdrunner | 426]

8/10 for me.

I actually read the map from the Players Guide long before I ever played the game (literally had that book YEARS before owning my first NES), so that kinda ruined a bit for me.  Still, Metroid was definitely a top notch experience even so.  Great memories all around.

I'm willing to give it a pass on the issues mentioned above.  Honestly I never really used the password system much, as I preferred to start over after dying. The first few scenes are some of the best parts!

My only gripes are that the ice beam makes enemies take twice as many shots to kill and that Norfair is too large and a little boring.  Would have been nice to see that area split into smaller parts.

Best game ever?  No, but it definitely deserves all the praises it gets.

[Tanooki | 4,972]

I gave it an 8 but wanted to go lower.   I kept in perspective for when it came out, and when it did, it was something uniquely different on the console side of things pretty much.  But even as much as we're spoiled by it now, even back then I found myself turned off by the game because of all the samey looking tunnels and zero method in the game to map your progress.  As a kid I didn't bother to try mapping it on paper as that both didn't cross my mind, but also felt it wouldn't be possible given how its laid out.  It's the largest singular reason I won't play the game anymore and if I do it would be the GBA release, the mapping.  I never found it truly hard and awful in other ways, not obtuse, nothing bad, but it was quite confusing.  I do agree it was a pisser on a reload having to time waste growing the energy bar again though I'd usually just go up a few e-tank cubes and just try not to get hit after as wasting that time out would be completely boring.  Today I'd give it a 6-7 range given the map, energy, and some other just crusty surfaces at this rate, but that still makes it better than average or bad.

Also on the whole, the bullshit design to make it a speed runners game from day one is also a turn off I'd knock it a full point for too.  Demanding such speed and precision just to get a best ending in the franchise really ticks me off.  I hate crap like that as much as I typically loathe games that do RANK systems by stage, world, game and punish accordingly on some lame set of factors only heaps of replays (ie: being a game tester/designer) only someone with too many tries could hope to nail down.

[Nostalgic Machine | 27]

The first Metroid is easily an 8.5/10 for me. It ALMOST captured the feel of the original LoZ - but somehow the lack of map made it way more frustrating than 

23 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

8/10.

Sooo atmospheric, and it’s a mid 80s game played on a damn toaster! Exploring is super fun and rewarding. If I have knocks against it: The difficulty curve is backwards. It’s hardest at the beginning when you’re lost and suck. Enemies are a joke by the time you get the screw attack. Only 2 minibosses. The reused screens are pretty confusing, but I guess they were pushing the hardware or trying to be confusing. Super Metroid made everything better, but Metroid is still the bomb.

Here’s my personal map because maps are cool

DUDE I was looking for my maps, graph paper and all; same score, 8/10!

It was like Zelda; no map, but you're exploring space instead of Hyrule. I LOVED that. The ambition was higher than the technology, which almost always proves beneficial once technology catches up.

I prefer Super Metroid (what I'd consider far and away the series' finest hour, still to this day 26 years later).

[Link | 2,815]

5 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Also on the whole, the bullshit design to make it a speed runners game from day one is also a turn off I'd knock it a full point for too.  Demanding such speed and precision just to get a best ending in the franchise really ticks me off.  I hate crap like that as much as I typically loathe games that do RANK systems by stage, world, game and punish accordingly on some lame set of factors only heaps of replays (ie: being a game tester/designer) only someone with too many tries could hope to nail down.

Do you have a problem with the speedrun scene in general? I don’t think the variable endings is a problem. Maybe it was a rudimentary way of doing it but what else could you expect at that point in history? It was kind of revolutionary. And it didn’t detract fun, since you can certainly finish the game taking as much time as you need. It had no effect on playing the game at all. Just the ending screen. If you only want to play the game one time, you can beat it and be done. If you want to play it again, you can do it better and be rewarded for such. That’s awesome! That’s what Nintendo Power used to call (and one factor they rated games on) replayability, aka value for money.

I think the only other game to date that did something along those lines is Adventure (2600).

Are you seriously complaining that getting the best prize (ending) requires exceptional performance? I don’t mean to import drama, but knowing some of your political ideas I find this rather silly. And while I do love Metroid, I fucking suck at it, and have never even made it to Ridley or Kraid so don’t get me wrong like I’m talking shit about your skill. 

[Vectrex28 | 366]

I mean... Despite Super Metroid being better in every way, I have to give NEStroid a 10 because it started my favourite series of all time