Look at these prices...unreal right ?

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

8 minutes ago, avatar! said:

With these insane prices, I have to wonder how can WATA or someone know when it's authentic and when it's a bootleg? Now, I realize many bootlegs are of poor quality, but if a M64 game sells for over a million dollars, I can absolutely see someone producing a very very high-quality bootleg - so how could you really tell without opening up the game??

X-ray.   At least that would tell you if it's a real game board.

 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

2 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

X-ray

The easiest part of a counterfeit sealed game would be using a mint condition authentic cartridge...

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said:

The easiest part of a counterfeit sealed game would be using a mint condition authentic cartridge...

Then weigh it?   Look at it for color bleeding?   There's lots of things to look for that are likely not gonna be in a step-by-step guide.

[avatar! | 1,812]

2 hours ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Then weigh it?   Look at it for color bleeding?   There's lots of things to look for that are likely not gonna be in a step-by-step guide.

Curious what people use to determine authenticity, and to what extent VGA/WATA determines and examines a game for authenticity?

There are decent guides such as this one

https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/284333/counterfeit-nes-snes-games-how-to-know-if-its-fake

However, it requires opening up the game which obviously you're not planning to do after shelling out huge chunks of cash for a sealed game. Furthermore, what sort of "training" does someone who works at VGA/WATA have? (hopefully someone can help answer these questions, I'm genuinely curious)!  Now, professional art historians at museums can have difficulty determining what is authentic and what are forgeries, so I'm certain there already are a certain percentage of games that have been sold that are fakes. Going by rates at museums (which I realize may not be accurate for games) would mean that somewhere between 10-20% of games sold are forgeries.

[RH | 4,906]

4 minutes ago, avatar! said:

Curious what people use to determine authenticity, and to what extent VGA/WATA determines and examines a game for authenticity?

There are decent guides such as this one

https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/284333/counterfeit-nes-snes-games-how-to-know-if-its-fake

However, it requires opening up the game which obviously you're not planning to do after shelling out huge chunks of cash for a sealed game. Furthermore, what sort of "training" does someone who works at VGA/WATA have? (hopefully someone can help answer these questions, I'm genuinely curious)!  Now, professional art historians at museums can have difficulty determining what is authentic and what are forgeries, so I'm certain there already are a certain percentage of games that have been sold that are fakes. Going by rates at museums (which I realize may not be accurate for games) would mean that somewhere between 10-20% of games sold are forgeries.

Lol, I wrote that guide years ago. It should probably be updated. I read over it about 6-9 months ago, I think and I knew it needed further updating.

[avatar! | 1,812]

1 hour ago, RH said:

Lol, I wrote that guide years ago. It should probably be updated. I read over it about 6-9 months ago, I think and I knew it needed further updating.

Well I really appreciate what you wrote! Good advice, give us more please

[AdamW | 713]

This is definitely a sensible market where everyone knows what they're doing.

[AdamW | 713]

3 hours ago, avatar! said:

Curious what people use to determine authenticity, and to what extent VGA/WATA determines and examines a game for authenticity?

There are decent guides such as this one

https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/284333/counterfeit-nes-snes-games-how-to-know-if-its-fake

However, it requires opening up the game which obviously you're not planning to do after shelling out huge chunks of cash for a sealed game. Furthermore, what sort of "training" does someone who works at VGA/WATA have? (hopefully someone can help answer these questions, I'm genuinely curious)!  Now, professional art historians at museums can have difficulty determining what is authentic and what are forgeries, so I'm certain there already are a certain percentage of games that have been sold that are fakes. Going by rates at museums (which I realize may not be accurate for games) would mean that somewhere between 10-20% of games sold are forgeries.

VGA have definitely graded fakes as real, multiple times. I haven't seen a case of WATA doing this yet, but someone else might have.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

15 hours ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Then weigh it?   Look at it for color bleeding?   There's lots of things to look for that are likely not gonna be in a step-by-step guide.

Weigh it to determine what?  That it contains all of the original cards/manuals?

What color bleeding?

I'm assuming we're talking about counterfeiting the SEAL and wrapping, not counterfeiting the box or contents -- given that the seal is what is worth the money.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

1 minute ago, arch_8ngel said:

Weigh it to determine what?  That it contains all of the original cards/manuals?

What color bleeding?

I'm assuming we're talking about counterfeiting the SEAL and wrapping, not counterfeiting the box or contents -- given that the seal is what is worth the money.

You'd also need to counterfeit a never opened box.   Between that and the seal itself, I don't see one getting through of a high profile game.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

1 minute ago, captmorgandrinker said:

You'd also need to counterfeit a never opened box.   Between that and the seal itself, I don't see one getting through of a high profile game.

I'm pretty sure we've seen quite a few examples of once-opened boxes that would pass as never-opened.

And we've definitely seen examples of never-opened boxes that just have wrecked original shrink-wrap.

 

I'm not suggesting that somebody is going to easily mass produce counterfeits by this method.

But with the sky-high premiums getting thrown around right now, I would imagine that the temptation is there to find compelling reseal candidates - where depending on the game generation those reseals can presumably be easier to accomplish.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,649]

4 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

I'm pretty sure we've seen quite a few examples of once-opened boxes that would pass as never-opened.

And we've definitely seen examples of never-opened boxes that just have wrecked original shrink-wrap.

Neither of which will end up with something as high as a 9.8.

While neither of us are sealed experts by any means, I would wager someone whose business is to know what cracked ink looks like on a once opened box would be able to tell a lot better than the layman.   

[guitarzombie | 924]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313548923252?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142836%26meid%3D1105b8e57f4c49e583cd8b1932da053d%26pid%3D101197%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D313547760972%26itm%3D313548923252%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2%26brand%3DNintendo&_trksid=p2047675.c101197.m1850&amdata=cksum%3A3135489232521105b8e57f4c49e583cd8b1932da053d|enc%3AAQAGAAACABAywncqb%2BK%2Fv768MuFAMxaFu7MXltBFbFBj6KUA8lfE%2FCEKHSPAkOc%2BWnhttQHrxsOo8P%2FX2sTnGALgwj3DTJEAdOSrFGCCaRbeJuVON3YlGfWTTc2Em4l0Ni3f%2FQiemcd8tn4OM3mJfFBbIYMbd7SLlVWlHA38%2BoJKtNn7w9RphJCadD2kLpFhKoTiU27xsi9JVE7zDK0OUpq7b4hYroPgmWfOeKTxPhwKDWEkoNrR8upMEwjm9f5H2SzvgNpezkpjXob89V9oCE69j6EbwRSlvsyL1RNdffu6DMOlYPVPdSBo%2BqPSzl6ZnyzsWLU1IH%2FnJLBv%2F1WpTnHdZxM4XbhlEmfgF5PCald4turpCIJ5Z5xyD9gX0dtcNEvajmz8TxzAAE6I7ju0QHQKs9fhTzng7MWb0VyE2EWxxkSVg70LoC12Cy5pRg3aCppqn1Ts30KcPhqmHGLEz%2BxwB8lp7sxrg6ZPiAGCsGF07tjLbjjvT7KX3SN5OdfVj7%2BCYGLHN9oDNpAwVGGKY%2BvvIjaKDp594gAfAFYYBeF9hTNP7brgImo20VaTvKnq8pmtlb6NAOk1QkNhTJaAY915j5%2BkWPqei92OpfxEys%2Fb7Bo2kZMKt4M%2FtyQ6E61otUIOZmJz1YnV%2FTHLehZ6dHrXJmjBD3qbOxMsQE1T%2BOcNPI2%2FSG6j|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

[DefaultGen | 5,406]

9 minutes ago, guitarzombie said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313548923252?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142836%26meid%3D1105b8e57f4c49e583cd8b1932da053d%26pid%3D101197%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D313547760972%26itm%3D313548923252%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2%26brand%3DNintendo&_trksid=p2047675.c101197.m1850&amdata=cksum%3A3135489232521105b8e57f4c49e583cd8b1932da053d|enc%3AAQAGAAACABAywncqb%2BK%2Fv768MuFAMxaFu7MXltBFbFBj6KUA8lfE%2FCEKHSPAkOc%2BWnhttQHrxsOo8P%2FX2sTnGALgwj3DTJEAdOSrFGCCaRbeJuVON3YlGfWTTc2Em4l0Ni3f%2FQiemcd8tn4OM3mJfFBbIYMbd7SLlVWlHA38%2BoJKtNn7w9RphJCadD2kLpFhKoTiU27xsi9JVE7zDK0OUpq7b4hYroPgmWfOeKTxPhwKDWEkoNrR8upMEwjm9f5H2SzvgNpezkpjXob89V9oCE69j6EbwRSlvsyL1RNdffu6DMOlYPVPdSBo%2BqPSzl6ZnyzsWLU1IH%2FnJLBv%2F1WpTnHdZxM4XbhlEmfgF5PCald4turpCIJ5Z5xyD9gX0dtcNEvajmz8TxzAAE6I7ju0QHQKs9fhTzng7MWb0VyE2EWxxkSVg70LoC12Cy5pRg3aCppqn1Ts30KcPhqmHGLEz%2BxwB8lp7sxrg6ZPiAGCsGF07tjLbjjvT7KX3SN5OdfVj7%2BCYGLHN9oDNpAwVGGKY%2BvvIjaKDp594gAfAFYYBeF9hTNP7brgImo20VaTvKnq8pmtlb6NAOk1QkNhTJaAY915j5%2BkWPqei92OpfxEys%2Fb7Bo2kZMKt4M%2FtyQ6E61otUIOZmJz1YnV%2FTHLehZ6dHrXJmjBD3qbOxMsQE1T%2BOcNPI2%2FSG6j|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

This is both cool and it seems trivial to reproduce. No store branding or anything? Couldn’t you just… print up a receipt with any receipt printer?

[RH | 4,906]

23 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

This is both cool and it seems trivial to reproduce. No store branding or anything? Couldn’t you just… print up a receipt with any receipt printer?

Interesting.  You know, I bought my N64 with Super Mario 64 on launch day.  My CIB N64 is one of two original gaming items I have from my childhood.  Let me check the box because there is a very small chance I kept the receipt with it.

EDIT

Dang it, nope.  I don't.  I do have all of the bags though.

Edited July 14, 2021 by RH

[TDIRunner | 2,741]

34 minutes ago, guitarzombie said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313548923252?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142836%26meid%3D1105b8e57f4c49e583cd8b1932da053d%26pid%3D101197%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D313547760972%26itm%3D313548923252%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2%26brand%3DNintendo&_trksid=p2047675.c101197.m1850&amdata=cksum%3A3135489232521105b8e57f4c49e583cd8b1932da053d|enc%3AAQAGAAACABAywncqb%2BK%2Fv768MuFAMxaFu7MXltBFbFBj6KUA8lfE%2FCEKHSPAkOc%2BWnhttQHrxsOo8P%2FX2sTnGALgwj3DTJEAdOSrFGCCaRbeJuVON3YlGfWTTc2Em4l0Ni3f%2FQiemcd8tn4OM3mJfFBbIYMbd7SLlVWlHA38%2BoJKtNn7w9RphJCadD2kLpFhKoTiU27xsi9JVE7zDK0OUpq7b4hYroPgmWfOeKTxPhwKDWEkoNrR8upMEwjm9f5H2SzvgNpezkpjXob89V9oCE69j6EbwRSlvsyL1RNdffu6DMOlYPVPdSBo%2BqPSzl6ZnyzsWLU1IH%2FnJLBv%2F1WpTnHdZxM4XbhlEmfgF5PCald4turpCIJ5Z5xyD9gX0dtcNEvajmz8TxzAAE6I7ju0QHQKs9fhTzng7MWb0VyE2EWxxkSVg70LoC12Cy5pRg3aCppqn1Ts30KcPhqmHGLEz%2BxwB8lp7sxrg6ZPiAGCsGF07tjLbjjvT7KX3SN5OdfVj7%2BCYGLHN9oDNpAwVGGKY%2BvvIjaKDp594gAfAFYYBeF9hTNP7brgImo20VaTvKnq8pmtlb6NAOk1QkNhTJaAY915j5%2BkWPqei92OpfxEys%2Fb7Bo2kZMKt4M%2FtyQ6E61otUIOZmJz1YnV%2FTHLehZ6dHrXJmjBD3qbOxMsQE1T%2BOcNPI2%2FSG6j|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

Even though it's been more than 30 days since it was purchased, they would be wise to still accept returns on unopened items. 

[avatar! | 1,812]

23 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

This is both cool and it seems trivial to reproduce. No store branding or anything? Couldn’t you just… print up a receipt with any receipt printer?

Simple to make. How would anyone know it's not a fake? Short answer is no way to tell, so it's basically worthless as a collectible in my opinion.

[RH | 4,906]

7 minutes ago, avatar! said:

Simple to make. How would anyone know it's not a fake? Short answer is no way to tell, so it's basically worthless as a collectible in my opinion.

I wouldn't pay for it but I like to find this stuff in boxes or in lots.  And you kind of can tell.  The paper yellows with age and the ink fades, typically.

So.. this is looking to be a bit to clean/new to be legit in my book.

[guitarzombie | 924]

The greed or grift is amusing to me.  If purchased at that price, it'll be more expensive than about 90% of the NES library cart only.

[Tanooki | 4,934]

That receipt...wow, I'm like seriously?

I guess it's time I put this up on idiotbay and I'll be a millionaire!

[spacepup | 2,404]

I've seen amusing stuff like that on ebay many times over the years, but I mean, do they ever sell?  Just because stuff like that is listed, does not mean people are actually collecting it or paying for it.  

Every now and then you'll have the occasional sale for weird stuff like this, but I don't think there is any material market for game receipts.

Though, I'll give it a 50% chance that a few years from now someone may quote this post and say "see! you were wrong!" hahah

[RH | 4,906]

15 hours ago, guitarzombie said:

The greed or grift is amusing to me.  If purchased at that price, it'll be more expensive than about 90% of the NES library cart only.

If you know someone selling 90% of the NES library for $90, I'm interested.  I don't care which games or condition.  I have my credit card on stand by.

[guitarzombie | 924]

11 minutes ago, RH said:

If you know someone selling 90% of the NES library for $90, I'm interested.  I don't care which games or condition.  I have my credit card on stand by.

You know what I meant haha.  90% of the NES library is less than $87.

[guitarzombie | 924]

39 minutes ago, spacepup said:

Though, I'll give it a 50% chance that a few years from now someone may quote this post and say "see! you were wrong!" hahah

Funny you mentioned this.  I had another Instagram account that I used for sales and stuff I picked up/games I beat etc.  I ended up hating the VG IG community so I stopped posting/logging in.  Yesterday I went to post something and decided to pop in for the first time in over 2 years.  Someone commented how I was all salty because I was calling out Rarebucky on some silly prices he had on loose cheap games and how he was ahead of the game.  The post I put up was from FIVE YEARS AGO.   Dude just started collecting VGA stuff last year.

[spacepup | 2,404]

I think rarebucky bought some sealed stuff from me years ago.  I bet he made a KILLING on them, haha!