tournament 2023 VGS NES Weekly Contest - Tournament Finals!

[Dr. Morbis | 2,116]

...Unless the time doors are reusable (I didn't check)... ???

[Dr. Morbis | 2,116]

1 minute ago, BlackVega said:

Nope input password 6127306 and started from 2-8. You spam the final boss

...For hours, without getting hit once?!?

[Dr. Morbis | 2,116]

3 minutes ago, BlackVega said:

Nope input password 6127306 and started from 2-8. You spam the final boss

I just watched a video on youtube and you get like 300 points every time you hit one of his projectiles, and he only takes a few hits to take down, so you're saying that you: successfully hit his projectiles hundreds upon hundreds of times in a row without getting hit one single time yourself or accidentally hitting his body the handful of times you need to take him down????  I mean, I know we're on the honour system, but come on...

[BlackVega | 583]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

...For hours, without getting hit once?!?

 

(I think it was 1 hour in total of gameplay and I paused and took breaks in between but definitely possible)

BTW your scores in crapcom olympics are super sick. There is no way I would get this high if I had been playing it for a week!

[Dr. Morbis | 2,116]

8 minutes ago, BlackVega said:

 

(I think it was 1 hour in total of gameplay and I paused and took breaks in between but definitely possible)

BTW your scores in crapcom olympics are super sick. There is no way I would get this high if I had been playing it for a week!

Thanks for the compliment, but it does nothing to dissaude me from feeling that your score is pretty much impossible to do.  A couple of times I've had a score in one of these contests that I thought people wouldn't believe, so I've recorded videos just to remove all doubt (Ice Hockey and Pro Wrestling).

The thought of someone point scumming on the Rolling Thunder boss for even ten minutes without accidentally killing him or getting hit one single time himself seems absolutely ridiculous to me, never mind doing it for an hour.  Whatever the show runners decide, I'll accept their verdict, but I personally don't feel like I've been beaten legit... 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Dr. Morbis

[SuperJimtendo | 1,210]

[the_wizard_666 | 1,332]

58 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I personally don't feel like I've been beaten legit... 

You rarely do

It definitely seems like a stretch to roll the score, but at the same time, I have seen some crazy ass feats before. I would have loved to see a video of that score though.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,116]

Just now, the_wizard_666 said:

You rarely do

It definitely seems like a stretch to roll the score, but at the same time, I have seen some crazy ass feats before. I would have loved to see a video of that score though.

Well I'm sure it's amusing looking in from the outside, but I spent like six hours memorizing those three levels just to get to the boss, and then it took me three tries to beat him, and I knew nobody else in the field would even have the gumption to accomplish the feat (just like Code Name Viper last year when I was the only one to beat it); and then to see someone casually say he's basically a machine and can point-scum a really difficult boss of a really difficult game for an hour like it's nothing?!?  Like does he even understand the field he was playing against?  No one else here was even going to beat the game other than us two and he already had the tourney locked up even if I won both games this week, so why would he realistically even bother trying to roll the score from 2-8, knowing how impossibly difficult it would be to do it legit?

It really makes me question his Boulder Dash and Galaga performances as well - no joke.  That last volcano world of BD is exceptionally difficult, as is getting to level 31 of Galaga with tons of men in reserve (It took The Mexican Runner over 15 hours to clear Stage 31 of Galaga, and he is a God at NES gaming, just to put Blackvega's "performance" in perspective).  I probably clocked in around eight hours myself, and I'm pretty strong at shooters in general.

Anyway, outside of seeing him post a video of point-scumming the final boss of Rolling Thunder for even like ten minutes, there is no way in hell I believe his scores are legit...

[Dr. Morbis | 2,116]

And here's some food for thought: why didn't he run out of bullets?  I never ran out of bullets during any of my attempts this week, so I don't remember what happens in this game when you run out of bullets, but how did he point-scum the boss for "an hour" without running out of bullets?

And question number two: why does he have exactly 50 bullets in both of his screen shots that he described as being from two different attempts?  Isn't that a gargantuanly huge coincidence that he would have the exact same number of bullets at the completion of both runs?!? (Never mind the fact that it's such a nice round number... hmmm...)

Now I'm not an expert at the inner workings of NES Rolling Thunder by any means, but perhaps @BeaIank and @guillavoie should take these two considerations into account before rendering any verdict, one way or another.  Once again, I'm not an expert, so maybe there is some logical explanation for this, but something really smells around here...

Edited December 11, 2023 by Dr. Morbis

[Dr. Morbis | 2,116]

Alright, I just threw the game in and purposely ran out of bullets, and what it does is give you one bullet back after a delay, then when you fire it, it gives you one more bullet after a delay again, and so on.  I don't know if this replenishment happens at a fast enough rate to fight off the final boss's projectiles?!?  Furthermore, since it never increments you more than one free bullet, how would you fill up to "50" once you've used all your ammo, which would be depleted rather quickly in a drawn out battle with the final boss?

Edited December 29, 2023 by Dr. Morbis

[guillavoie | 1,225]

Let's put it simply : 'things' are being reviewed by Bea and me.

[BlackVega | 583]

To anyone questioning the strat here you go enjoy. I recorded this in FCEUX emulator but I generally play on real hardware on a CRT which helps tremendously just like in Mike Tyson rather than those janky emulators under binbows. This is not the final run and it is just an educational example run. There is definitely enough time to always react so yep 1000% possible. You can rewind boring stuff. I recommend pausing every 50,000 or 100,000 points so you don't look at the TV for too long and get tired so you can get back, regain your focus and go into full zen mode. In case anyone challenges that submission I didn't use any sort of cheats, slowdown, save states, turbo controllers or any other tool assistance or anything illegal. I will also upload Commando pacifist later on

 

[BlackVega | 583]

Alright so whenever anyone posts unusually high score there is almost always at least 1 person who creates pressure and throws cheating accusations. Deservedly so

[BlackVega | 583]

6 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Alright, I just threw the game in and purposely ran out of bullets, and what it does is give you one bullet back after a delay, then when you fire it, it gives you one more bullet after a delay again, and so on.  This replenishment does not happen at a fast enough rate to fight off the final boss's projectiles.  Furthermore, since it never increments you more than one free bullet, there is no way to fill up to "50" once you've used all your ammo, which would be depleted rather quickly in a drawn out battle with the final boss.

As such, the screenshots posted by BlackVega are literally impossible to accomplish without cheating if starting from 2-8, and probably impossible (due to the bullet inventory) no matter what level you begin on.  This is the smoking gun, even before considering the fact that 50 bullets is the default amount you start with (another coincidence!).  As such, his Rolling Thunder scores need to be thrown out, at the very least, disregarding whatever validity there may or may not be to any of his other incredibly great achievements in the last few weeks (no-deathing Volcano world of Boulder Dash???  Damn...)

The prosecution rests...

I can understand throwing accusations under suspicions of cheating because there were some bad apples caught in the past. Billy Mitchell is probably the most popular example of that and exposing him was very good for the entire community but hey, you were just throwing guesses about how this game works and you are factually wrong here. Next time you accuse someone of cheating you better have absolutely hardcore evidence because if you are unsure (like here) you can create a very bad and disgusting situation for no reason. That was an extremely dick move on your side. Honestly if I was that stupid enough I wouldn't care and just manipulated my previous runs to almost 100% TAS levels of score according to that logic. Also you shouldn't throw arguments that are opinionated

[mbd39 | 2,092]

Ooohhh, drama. *grabs popcorn*

[RH | 5,196]

@BlackVega Take it easy and don't get upset.  I think calling your score into question makes sense.  I'm not a judge, but your video looks legit and if it can be verified that the single-bullet respawns fast enough for you to keep point scumming then that's amazing.

Just keep in mind "with extraordinary claims should come extraordinary evidence".  That video is a step in the right direction, for sure.  If you haven't cheated, then you have nothing to worry about.  Quite frankly, all of this additional vetting will just further prove your skills and in the future help validate whatever other "unreasonable" scores you might post, so just give it time and let this play out.

[docile tapeworm | 4,256]

16 hours ago, Murray said:

Didn’t you once modify a controller just so you wouldn’t have to get up every time to reset your nes? 

 

15 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

He made a reset button and modified the NES to accept the reset from the player 2 controller port. 

 

15 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

That's actually pretty cool.  The Turbografx 16 has an interesting method that works on all games: pressing Select and Run at the same time resets the console; I'm thinking they did this because there is no reset button anywhere to be found on the system itself...

 

13 hours ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

I've never played Code Name Viper or Rolling Thunder. I'll have to give them a try.

Hahaaaa! Ya I pulled the guts out of a Rf switch and put a push button in it spliced into a controller wire. Then re wired  the inside of the player two port to the reset switch

I still have it but I put the player two port back together. 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,120]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:34 PM, NESfiend said:

Reserved 

You're taking slacking lessons from skinny aren't you? 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,120]

On 12/3/2023 at 2:50 PM, NESfiend said:

Gold medal challenge - ROUGH on the already sore thumbs. I better ice them up @Bearcat-Doug style

I take it that you decided to save your thumbs for next year instead of posting a score. 

[PII | 2,020]

4 hours ago, docile tapeworm said:

Hahaaaa! Ya I pulled the guts out of a Rf switch and put a push button in it spliced into a controller wire. Then re wired  the inside of the player two port to the reset switch

I still have it but I put the player two port back together. 

Soooo, at first I thought maybe you had done this to create a "soft reset", maybe for a game like Batman Return of  the Joker, but it's sounding like it was just to not have to get up.  Just wanna make sure I'm clear...

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,120]

4 minutes ago, PII said:

Soooo, at first I thought maybe you had done this to create a "soft reset", maybe for a game like Batman Return of  the Joker, but it's sounding like it was just to not have to get up.  Just wanna make sure I'm clear...

Skinny didn't want to get up or have to share his NES in case someone came over and wanted to play a two player game. 

[PII | 2,020]

7 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

Skinny didn't want to get up or have to share his NES in case someone came over and wanted to play a two player game. 

¡I push da Button!  ¡No you push da button, I push da Button!

 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,332]

I think that video shows basically everything that was called into question.  The bullet respawn is fast enough to milk the projectiles, and the end sequence clearly showed 50 bullets.  Unless he went to extreme lengths to forge a score in a bragging rights contest, I think the score is good.  But @BlackVega, don't be too upset.  That's some crazy skills you exhibited, far beyond what most could pull off in a week.  It's understandable that some would think there were shenanigans involved.  Congrats on such an epic run!

[NESfiend | 1,553]

3 hours ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

I take it that you decided to save your thumbs for next year instead of posting a score. 

I had a stupidly involved writing project and a deadline. Ate up a lot of night time. I did make a couple efforts at the 100 yard dash. Even a few quick playthroughs destroyed my thumbs, and I got nowhere scorewise. Being out of the running, it was easy to say no thanks on that..

Rolling thunder Im sad I missed. I checked my local store and no copy. Looked for my adaptor to put on a flash cart and came up empty. That one is high up my buy and try list. 

I love codename viper. You would like it, doug. Worth a playthrough. Someone has to get those 90s drug lords

[Jeevan | 9,155]

13 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

I had a stupidly involved writing project and a deadline. Ate up a lot of night time. I did make a couple efforts at the 100 yard dash. Even a few quick playthroughs destroyed my thumbs, and I got nowhere scorewise. Being out of the running, it was easy to say no thanks on that..

Rolling thunder Im sad I missed. I checked my local store and no copy. Looked for my adaptor to put on a flash cart and came up empty. That one is high up my buy and try list. 

I love codename viper. You would like it, doug. Worth a playthrough. Someone has to get those 90s drug lords

N.A.R.C. is better