SMW is not great if you compare it to SMB3... Also, SMB2 stuff

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I actually never thought about this.  Not having a save feature did make beating SMB3 a way bigger deal when I was a kid.  It was like this day long trial that resulted in a huge sense of accomplishment when you finally saw the ending.  No way would you get that feeling if you're playing twenty minutes at a time over the course of a week and then beating the game during your final fifteen minute gaming session.

I think the bottom line is that this game needs a battery in 2022, but not in 1988/1990.  I actually never thought about this game needing a battery back then, nor did I ever hear anyone bring up this topic before the internet era.   So, to me, it's a modern quality of life issue that we are used to in the current video game world, so we're retroactively evaluating an old game based on our expectations in the modern world.

Conclusion: SMB3 did not need a battery when it was released thirty years ago, but it needs one in 2022.

The game apparently needed a battery in the early 90’s when they threw it on the All Stars Cart, sooo Im going to have to disagree with the conclusion 

[Lynda Monica | 350]

I like how Mario World has been removed from the discussion entirely, and people are only complaining about Mario 3. Seems like the topic has proved itself wrong.

[Tulpa | 3,526]

18 minutes ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

The game apparently needed a battery in the early 90’s when they threw it on the All Stars Cart, sooo Im going to have to disagree with the conclusion 

Plus, there's nothing stopping anyone from not using the battery if they want the challenge.

It's like saying you can't do a swordless run in Zelda because the sword is there anytime you want to pick it up.

[mbd39 | 2,026]

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I actually never thought about this.  Not having a save feature did make beating SMB3 a way bigger deal when I was a kid.  It was like this day long trial that resulted in a huge sense of accomplishment when you finally saw the ending.  No way would you get that feeling if you're playing twenty minutes at a time over the course of a week and then beating the game during your final fifteen minute gaming session.

I think the bottom line is that this game needs a battery in 2022, but not in 1988/1990.  I actually never thought about this game needing a battery back then, nor did I ever hear anyone bring up this topic before the internet era.   So, to me, it's a modern quality of life issue that we are used to in the current video game world, so we're retroactively evaluating an old game based on our expectations in the modern world.

Conclusion: SMB3 did not need a battery when it was released thirty years ago, but it needs one in 2022.

Battery save for longer platformers was already standard by the early 90s though.

 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

31 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

Battery save for longer platformers was already standard by the early 90s though.

 

Yeah, in the SNES era, not in 1987 when SMB3 was being developed.  A game like Blaster Master would've had a battery if it came out mid-SNES era, but in 1988 on the NES, it did not.  A game like SMB3 would have had a battery had it been released in 1993, which is mid-SNES era.... oh, wait.....  

[AirVillain | 490]

3 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

Considering the world record for 100% is over an hour, it would appear that nobody can. When I was 10, it took me a little under 3 hours to beat mario 3, which I think is a typical run. Now that's fine for 10 year old without much else to do on a Saturday, but adult me can never expect to experience the whole game with out skipping vast portions of it with no save feature via whistles or just quitting when I run out of time. I don't know that this makes the game "flawed" per se, as it is mechanically perfect, but having the option for save stated via Nintendo switch online, for example is a huge improvement. 

All that being said, 3>SMW. 

I hear what you're saying... I meant beat it not 100% or just play it for an hour. 

I know we all have priorities in life, but 2.5 hours when we're talking about all the movies, games, and forums ppl like us waste our time on.... it's not much. 

Agreed to agree on that last part.

 

3 hours ago, Tulpa said:

See, I totally disagree. I don't think it adds anything. If it needed urgency, why the warp whistles? That takes away urgency.

I think it's just rationalizations. You love the game and don't want to admit it has a shortcoming. Human nature.

Why did later iterations of the exact same game add a save feature? I doubt kids got soft in the five or so years.

The warp whistles are there for replay-ability or your second run through with P-Wings. They allow seasoned players to go back and play anytime, beat the game if they want to, or travel around and get their favourite suits or play their favourite worlds.  

I get your jokes... but I'm not rationalizing one bit. I genuinely NEVER considered SMB3 being lesser because it didn't have a save. Ever. Not once. 

 

48 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Plus, there's nothing stopping anyone from not using the battery if they want the challenge.

It's like saying you can't do a swordless run in Zelda because the sword is there anytime you want to pick it up.

Adding the battery to All-Stars is Nintendo trying to pander to the babies who can't handle SMB3 in one sitting.  

 

2 hours ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

The tone was much more jovial in my head. 

It really is only a little tedious. You can get 5 extra lives in the first level to the right of the Yoshi house in under 2mins. Then go right back to whatever levels you saved at vs. (lets say you were halfway through world 3 or 4)Playing through a bunch of levels all over again to get back to where you were taking much longer than a few minutes in SMB3.

Haha, my tone was also jovial. 

Yeah.... but ANY going back and re-tracing steps is unnecessary given a proper save function. If you just play SMB3 all the way through, or leave your system on like a regular human being, there is no waiting or replaying levels. 
 

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Uhh that's the very definition of why a game needs a save method (battery or password) you can't be serious.  Blame the game you can't do, game has no blame, the dumbass designer who left it out you do.

Haha, yeah... you right, you right. I meant if you can't get as much done game-wise that you'd like to in one hour to appease your self imposed one hour of play time then that's your bad.

The game allows you to get to any world within 5-7 minutes using the whistles. So... you could just stop after a level (close to the hour) and then when you re-start get the whistles, get to your world where you left off and have 53 minutes left to keep going. 

There's nothing wrong with leaving the system on for a good week or so.... so to me, there's no reason to bother with time limits of playing.... but hey.... some people do I suppose.

 

41 minutes ago, Lynda Monica said:

I like how Mario World has been removed from the discussion entirely, and people are only complaining about Mario 3. Seems like the topic has proved itself wrong.

Actually, Lynda, it proves me right. 

No one cares about SMW when SMB3 is in the conversation. Point proven.

[Tulpa | 3,526]

36 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

I get your jokes... but I'm not rationalizing one bit. I genuinely NEVER considered SMB3 being lesser because it didn't have a save. Ever. Not once. 

Sounds like something a rationalizer would say. I'm not saying the game is lesser. Just that it's not perfect. No game is. You dig deep enough, you'll find some flaw somewhere.

36 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

Adding the battery to All-Stars is Nintendo trying to pander to the babies who can't handle SMB3 in one sitting.  

Hey, if you want to pick a fight with the SNES fans, god help you.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Tulpa

[MegaMan52 | 2,452]

Here are the reasons why I believe Super Mario Bros. 3 is the superior game (I don't care if literally everyone disagrees with me, I'm entitled to my own opinions like everyone else): 

The levels and worlds - Super Mario Bros. 3 has more variety: plains, grass, sky, underground, fortress, water, giant, airship, etc. Super Mario World has mostly sky, forest, cave, and fortress levels. 

The music - Most of the music tracks in Super Mario World are too similar. The music tracks in the sky levels, water levels, cave levels, and fortress levels are just variations of the main theme. 

Raccoon Tail and Suits are more useful - Yes the Suits are gimmicks, but once again SMB3 beats out SMW when it comes to variety. The Cape is basically a harder to control version of the Raccoon Tail and is really nothing special. I'm glad Nintendo included the Tanooki Suit in Super Mario 3D Land instead of the Cape. 

No save feature - You read that correctly. Like @Dr. Morbis said, Super Mario Bros. 3 didn't need a save feature in 1988/1990...and in my opinion, it doesn't need one now either. Many of us have played the game numerous times over the years and know the levels. The game only takes a few hours to complete, and maybe not even for some players. The lack of a save feature makes beating the game feel more rewarding, especially back in the '90s. 

Super Mario World's save feature is somewhat flawed in that the game only allows you to save when beating Switch Palaces, Ghost Houses, and Fortresses. You'd think by 1990/1991, they would allow players to save at anytime or after completing any level. People often bring up the fact that Zelda and Zelda II have saves features. Yeah about that...the save features in those games are actually a little better than Super Mario World because you can save your progress when the game is over, no matter where you are. 

Edit: Nintendo apparently realized that the limited saving in Super Mario World kind of sucks, so they improved it in the Game Boy Advance version by allowing you to save whenever: 

No Yoshi - I like Yoshi and the many games he's been in, but his usefulness in SMW is limited if you think about it. Touch an enemy, and he runs away. Oh sure you can run up to him and get on him again, but the levels have several holes and Yoshi doesn't hesitate to fall into one. Also, the game doesn't allow you to bring him into fortresses or most Ghost Houses. And if there's one thing that even SUPER MARIO SUNSHINE does better than an iconic game like Super Mario World, it's that Yoshi doesn't run away when getting hit and Mario merely jumps off. Yes I know this is about SMB3 and SMW, but my point is that Yoshi isn't as fun or useful in SMW as he could've been and is a bit annoying sometimes in this game.

One other issue with Super Mario World is that, despite being the fourth main entry in the Mario series and being on SNES, Luigi is still just a recolor of Mario (and looks worse because of the green hair). Yes his appearance was changed in the SMAS+SMW version, but maybe his appearance should've been different in the original version as well. You know, the version that most people played. This is just a minor complaint, though. Still if people feel the need to keep bringing up the fact that Zelda has a save feature and SMB3 doesn't, then how about the fact that Luigi both controls differently AND is taller in the American Super Mario Bros. 2 instead of being a recolor or a sprite hack that, either way, controls the same in Super Mario World? Once again the NES beats the SNES.

Since some people are overly sensitive, I'd like to point out that I don't hate Super Mario World. If I were to give it a rating, I'd probably give it an 9/10 as I not only like the game but also have a lot of fond memories playing it in the '90s and early 2000's. I just didn't enjoy it as quite as much as Super Mario Bros. 3. And when it comes to Mario games on the SNES, Super Mario RPG is my favorite overall. I enjoyed that game a little more than Super Mario World as well.

Edited June 26, 2022 by MegaMan52

[MegaMan52 | 2,452]

1 hour ago, Lynda Monica said:

I like how Mario World has been removed from the discussion entirely, and people are only complaining about Mario 3. Seems like the topic has proved itself wrong.

Not anymore.

[Lynda Monica | 350]

48 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

Actually, Lynda, it proves me right. 

No one cares about SMW when SMB3 is in the conversation. Point proven.

I guess that's one way of looking at it. You're not really wrong I suppose.

Though one could also take that logic and say that Super Mario World fans don't actually care enough to argue about it. The game is still great even if it's not one's favourite game in the series. Comparing everything poorly to a series' perceived best entry is the quickest way to not have much fun. 

The thread's original wording is still not true, as even if you compare the two games, Mario World is still great. If the thread was "Mario World isn't as good as Mario 3", maybe that would be a better starting point. The original wording sort of plays it safe and has a hint of doubt to begin with.

I still like Mario World more regardless, so I think I've said all I really can here. I'll leave it to the rest of you.

*salutes*

Edited June 26, 2022 by Lynda Monica

[Gloves | 11,807]

Really wasn't expecting this thread to be so... Constant. Lol. 

[Tulpa | 3,526]

Just now, Gloves said:

Really wasn't expecting this thread to be so... Constant. Lol. 

Never underestimate people's affection for a thirty year old vidya game.

[Lynda Monica | 350]

20 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Never underestimate people's affection for a thirty year old vidya game.

Paper Mario vs Thousand Year Door
Aladdin SNES vs Aladdin Genesis
Pokemon Red vs Pokemon Blue
Sonic Adventure 1 vs Sonic Adventure 2
Mega Man 2 vs Mega Man 3
SNES vs Genesis
Super Mario 3 vs Super Mario World
Aerith vs Tifa

These are the wars that will be taught in future generation's text books.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Lynda Monica

[Jeevan | 8,916]

37 minutes ago, MegaMan52 said:

I like Yoshi and the many games he's been in, but his usefulness in SMW is limited if you think about it.

I really like using yoshi to get to places that i can't easily enough, aka yoshi sacrificing

2 hours ago, Lynda Monica said:

I like how Mario World has been removed from the discussion entirely, and people are only complaining about Mario 3. Seems like the topic has proved itself wrong.

Good point   

**real post here**

There is a reason why I always go back to playing SMW over SMB3......I like it more. 

Whether you do or don't, that is your perogative.  I have fond memories of both smb3 and smw.  Now that we have talked about this, i kinda wanna play smb3, but there is also a reason why i bought the snes controller for my switch .  I actually have nostalgia for both games, but I just like SNES/SMW more.

[Strange | 1,700]

All this bickering and for what? Neither game is as good as SM64

ducks

[Strange | 1,700]

Is “The weapons breaking in Breath of the Wild isn’t bad game design!” the modern version of “The lack of a save feature in SMB3 isn’t bad game design!”?

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

1 hour ago, Tulpa said:

Hey, if you want to pick a fight with the SNES fans, god help you.

Okay, this is funny, but that doesn't meant it's not 100% true.  That game lets you save on every world, and in "Lost Levels" it lets you save on every level!  I mean, what the fuck is the point of even playing at that point?  Just watch a video of someone beating it on youtube and call it a day.

So yeah, much like 99% of the rest of the SNES library, All-Stars is for teeny weeny w'ittle babies who need a speaker box in multiple levels of the pack-in game for the system to tell them exactly what to do.  Talk about setting a precedent...

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

4 minutes ago, Strange said:

Is “The weapons breaking in Breath of the Wild isn’t bad game design!”

It's not bad game design per se, it's just one more thing to distract you from the aspects of the game that are actually fun (exploration, dungeons, fighting enemies, meeting npc's to learn more about the world/lore, etc).  If I want to waste time with mundane tasks like continuously finding weapons and crafting and all the other modern garbage BOTW has added to pad it's play time, I'll turn off my video game system and get back to real life...

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

1 hour ago, AirVillain said:

There's nothing wrong with leaving the system on for a good week or so.... so to me, there's no reason to bother with time limits of playing.... but hey...

You won’t convince me thats a good idea anymore. We had a tv and pc both get fried on a power surge when both were plugged into a supposedly “really good” and expensive ass surge protector. Anything I cant easily replace (all my classic consoles) gets completely unplugged when not in active use

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

This thread is hilarious. And now people are bringing up Breath of the Wild out of nowhere?

The only conclusion I've come to in regards to this thread is just confirming what I already knew: Several of the members of this site have a massive bias towards the NES because they played it when they were a kid, just like I have a massive bias towards the SNES because I played it as a kid. We'd never be able to have a completely objective discussion about this, at least not on this site, because pretty much everyone has a huge amount of nostalgia for one or the other, if not both. The only way we'd be able to come to any real conclusions on this is if we got someone who's never played either of them to play them now and ask for their opinions on both of the games to completely remove nostalgia from the equation, haha.

[Jeevan | 8,916]

13 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

This thread is hilarious. And now people are bringing up Breath of the Wild out of nowhere?

The only conclusion I've come to in regards to this thread is just confirming what I already knew: Several of the members of this site have a massive bias towards the NES because they played it when they were a kid, just like I have a massive bias towards the SNES because I played it as a kid. We'd never be able to have a completely objective discussion about this, at least not on this site, because pretty much everyone has a huge amount of nostalgia for one or the other, if not both. The only way we'd be able to come to any real conclusions on this is if we got someone who's never played either of them to play them now and ask for their opinions on both of the games to completely remove nostalgia from the equation, haha.

i was gonna put this in the last post, but didn't wanna ramble.......I have a massive amount of nostalgia for both systems.  But yes, an unbiased person would be the only way to decide this debate, but they would have to be "qualified" to do so......so what are the qualifications.......

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

13 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

i was gonna put this in the last post, but didn't wanna ramble.......I have a massive amount of nostalgia for both systems.  But yes, an unbiased person would be the only way to decide this debate, but they would have to be "qualified" to do so......so what are the qualifications.......

I mean this post has already gotten sidetracked several times, haha. I'm not sure what you mean by qualified. I mean, the only qualifications they'd really need to have would be to know how to play basic platformer games, right? If they had played maybe a couple other NES and SNES games besides those two that could maybe help, but I don't see how they would really need any particular qualifications, they'd just need to beat those two games.

[Jeevan | 8,916]

5 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

I mean this post has already gotten sidetracked several times, haha. I'm not sure what you mean by qualified. I mean, the only qualifications they'd really need to have would be to know how to play basic platformer games, right? If they had played maybe a couple other NES and SNES games besides those two that could maybe help, but I don't see how they would really need any particular qualifications, they'd just need to beat those two games.

how about a sega only person?  A gamer who can do platformers.......do we have a sega only member?

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

5 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

how about a sega only person?  A gamer who can do platformers.......do we have a sega only member?

Ooooh OK, that's what you meant. I was speaking in pure hypotheticals, if we were to actually try and find someone like that it'd probably have to be a Sega only person or something, yeah.

[Jeevan | 8,916]

2 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

Ooooh OK, that's what you meant. I was speaking in pure hypotheticals, if we were to actually try and find someone like that it'd probably have to be a Sega only person or something, yeah.

if we can find them i could send them a copy of each as i have extras   If anyone really hasn't played them, and think they could be unbiased.......Let me know, just @ me here and i will pm you to get your info.