SMW is not great if you compare it to SMB3... Also, SMB2 stuff

[docile tapeworm | 4,206]

53 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

"Hey Elon!"

"Yeah, Jeff?"

"I got an idea. Let's lie about something inconsequential that happened decades ago that only a small amount of basement dwellers are even aware of, let alone care about."

"Don't we have busy lives acquiring social media platforms?"

"Nah, dog. We got tons of free time to spend on trolling a group of people whose numbers could safely fill a college football stadium."

"True dat. True dat. Let's do it!"

The pen is blue! 
The prototype Tanabe’ developy was never intended to be a Mario game. The famicom title substitutes “bros.” With “usa”. When asked about it later, because it was such a big deal, they lied and said of course it was always intended to be a Mario game. No matter how rich people get they still lie.

[Tulpa | 3,569]

3 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

The pen is blue! 
The prototype Tanabe’ developy was never intended to be a Mario game. The famicom title substitutes “bros.” With “usa”. When asked about it later, because it was such a big deal, they lied and said of course it was always intended to be a Mario game. No matter how rich people get they still lie.

Yeah, you've made that argument already.

And I still say you're rock fucking delusional. Still love ya!

[docile tapeworm | 4,206]

51 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Yeah, you've made that argument already.

And I still say you're rock fucking delusional. Still love ya!

Pull the wool from over your eyes man!

[Tulpa | 3,569]

10 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

Pull the wool from over your eyes man!

No, you'll have to kidnap them and put them on a polygraph machine before I'll consider it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're about to go kidnap them and put them on a polygraph machine, aren't you?

[AirVillain | 494]

On 11/5/2022 at 9:26 PM, docile tapeworm said:

Pull the wool from over your eyes man!

On 11/5/2022 at 9:37 PM, Tulpa said:

No, you'll have to kidnap them and put them on a polygraph machine before I'll consider it!

You're about to go kidnap them and put them on a polygraph machine, aren't you?

On 7/27/2022 at 10:22 PM, docile tapeworm said:

They could have just decided to say that to support the idea that smb2 isn’t just a skin rip off.

As an ignorant bystander to most of this conversation and who's "research" involves only hearsay and deep-seated unfounded beliefs.... I can unequivocally say I'm with Skinny here. 

Of course they're going to try to say it was a Mario game all along. 

These people have NO REASON to say "Oh, that Mario game you love so much? Number 2? The one where you can play as Mario, Peach, Luigi, OR Toad?? The one that was crazy popular and made us crazy amounts of money??? Yeah... that was all a sham. That was never supposed to be a Mario game and we all tricked you into loving it by substituting familiar Mario characters in there for you North American babies."

Haha, no... of course not. They're going to leave little nuggets out there to cover up the truth and make the public believe that SMB2 isn't just a skin rip off.
 

Gaming Historian video synopsis: says SMB was made by R&D 4. Super Mario Bros 2. was developed by them as well from the more difficult arcade version, and onto the disc system. Used the same game engine, and created SMB2 for Japan on the Famicom disk system.

LUIGI CAN JUMP HIGH MUHFUCKAS! And, as we know, the game is hard as fuck. Gets shelved. 

New guy on R&D4 comes up with idea with go vertical. Doesn't work. But then gets used later as a promo tool and creates Doki Doki Panic with the 4 characters, mascots of a festival. Miyamoto tells them to make the game more "Mario-like".

They made the game, as Skinny said before, to be more like a Mario game, they never intended for it to BE a Mario game so it's got a completely different "feel".

MYSTERY SOLVED. 

Now we can go back to not including it and casting it aside as garbage.  Jokes, I respect SMB2... it's just not really on the same level as SMB, SMB3, SMW...  because it's a different game. 

Edit: I just tried to re-read some comments that I maybe missed in the 80 or so pages and now I'm a bit confused, maybe... I think Tulpa and Skinny are both.... right? 

haha... ah well, we'll see where this lands.

Edited December 11, 2022 by AirVillain

[docile tapeworm | 4,206]

Who knows. I just like to stand on my side of the fence that claims it’s a shit rip off fake game.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

14 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

Who knows. I just like to stand on my side of the fence that claims it’s a shit rip off fake game.

I like the Japanese SMB 2 better. It's like the original game on expert mode.

[AirVillain | 494]

3 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

Who knows. I just like to stand on my side of the fence that claims it’s a shit rip off fake game.

At least one of us can be so direct about it.... and in this context (of comparing SMB games) I'm with you!!

[Tulpa | 3,569]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:45 AM, AirVillain said:

Edit: I just tried to re-read some comments that I maybe missed in the 80 or so pages and now I'm a bit confused, maybe... I think Tulpa and Skinny are both.... right? 

I'm right in that it's crazy to think that the Nintendo guys care enough to concoct an elaborate coverup.

Skinny's right in that ... well ... he's right in that shooters are an awesome genre. (Hey, give me a break, it's Skinny we're talking about. I'm reaching here. )

[AirVillain | 494]

4 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I'm right in that it's crazy to think that the Nintendo guys care enough to concoct an elaborate coverup.

Skinny's right in that ... well ... he's right in that shooters are an awesome genre. (Hey, give me a break, it's Skinny we're talking about. I'm reaching here. )

Doesn't seem that elaborate, though. I mean... they didn't do any major press releases or anything like that?

But, it's also kind of common knowledge (that what we know as SMB2 was originally programmed to be a DIFFERENT game) that the coverup wasn't necessary, for sure.... but still.... both can exist. Like Skinny said, what do these guys care? They can just fuck with ppl and drop some hints here and there.... They'll WANT some ppl to forever think it was originally an OG Mario game so it doesn't crush their hopes and dreams and they can include it in conversations such as this. 

Skinny and I disagree with that. 2 doesn't belong here. 

Shooters are awesome, too. 

This is interesting thought, and I'd like to point out an earlier comment from MrWunderful:

On 7/28/2022 at 7:17 PM, MrWunderful said:

I think I can solve the argument. Let’s debate what constitutes a “Mario” game. Is it something that is sold at retail that has Mario on the cover or in the title? Or is it something that was from development day one to include Mario as a main player character?

 

If you swap out a megaman 2 sprite with Mario, change his blaster to fireballs and have all the level bosses be koopas isn’t that a Mario game?

What constitutes a Mario game????

1) Must be developed/programmed from "day one" to actually BE a "Mario" game

2) Question Mark Blocks with Coins/Power-Ups.

SMB2 contains neither of these elements. Argument solved.

Let's also take a second here to acknowledge the lack of Power-Ups in SMB2. It's embarrassing. A mushroom. THAT'S IT??? No Fire Flower, okay so there's a star.... but you gotta wait around randomly for it... and collect cherries? That's not nearly as fun as randomly smashing all the blocks you can see until one flies out and you have to chase it down risking death. 

No power-ups SMB2?? Come on. Disappointing and unacceptable for a "Mario game".  

[Tulpa | 3,569]

8 minutes ago, AirVillain said:

Like Skinny said, what do these guys care? They can just fuck with ppl and drop some hints here and there.... They'll WANT some ppl to forever think it was originally an OG Mario game so it doesn't crush their hopes and dreams and they can include it in conversations such as this. 

That assumes that they're even aware of us at all. I just don't think busy execs are even aware of the controversy, let alone care enough to try to feed into it. The game's 30+ years old at this point.

Like I said, this smacks of every loony conspiracy theory out there. It's fun to think about, but it's also tinfoil hat wearing crazy to think it's actually happening.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Tulpa

[Tanooki | 4,958]

...and to think this WAS a mario world and mario 3 post.  Now we have AV there going into delusional dickery to re-write history to fit a narrative as some others like to do too.

Taking a line from star wars.  'Stay on target!  Stay on target!'  and just like Gold Five, this thread, and your grip on reality are both blown up.

 

Might as well lock the thread if this is going into some SMB2 whine fest no one asked for.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

Super Mario 2 is a 10/10 game you fools

[PekoponTAS | 171]

When I was a kid, Super Mario Bros. 2 was Super Mario Bros. 2 and I thought nothing of it. I didn't even clue in that it was strange that it played differently to the original and the third one as a five year old. The cartoon was based on Mario 2 as well, so I just always thought of it as Mario 2.

I find it weird how there are so many people in a community like this that don't feel the same way about it. It's a weird situation for sure, but both regions have long accepted both games. Mario USA exists in Japan, and Mario Lost Levels exists in North America. Both games released in both regions eventually, and all four versions retain the Mario branding.

The only one that isn't branded as Mario is the Doki Doki Disc System version, which I'm sure Nintendo doesn't even have the rights to anymore since it was based on some licensed kids show or something. Mario USA is also an improved version of the original game, so I'm sure most Japanese players would rather play Mario USA anyway.

Yet even if we were to limit ourselves to the mindset of when the two games were exclusive to their respective region, it's worth pointing out that what we call Lost Levels only came out in Japan, and everywhere else in the world got what Japan calls Mario USA. The English Mario 2 was the more prominent game in pop culture, which is likely why so many elements of that game have remained through the years. 

In regards to the original topic, Mario 3 has better gameplay, but Mario World has better music and secrets.

Edited December 12, 2022 by PekoponTAS

[goldenpp72 | 1,242]

I fully disagree, though Mario 3 is fantastic too. Super Mario World innovated in a whole lot of ways that are still not rivaled to this day. The entire world being interconnected, the way it designates which areas have secrets and which do not makes it so you're more prone to try and find the secrets rather than look them up, the amount of flexibility in the world design and alternate methods to approach it, the fact you can bring Yoshi from level to level and find ones with different powers, etc. Mario World basically made the entire game feel like one big single adventure filled with secrets and options, while focusing on the fundamentals that make the series great. Mario 3 is the game that cemented the series as a true juggernaut, but World is still right there with it trading blows really. Both are legends and deserve their praise though.

[MegaMan52 | 2,476]

I've noticed in the last few years that there's been sort of a bias towards the SNES within this community. Apparently, every SNES entry in a series is the "best." Super Mario World is the "best" Mario game. A Link to the Past is the "best" Zelda game. Super Metroid is the "best" Metroid game. Donkey Kong Country 1 & 2 are the "best" Donkey Kong games. Mega Man X is the "best" Mega Man game. Castlevania IV is the "best" Castlevania game. The first F-Zero is the "best" F-Zero game. Yoshi's Island is the "best" Yoshi game. Kirby Super Star and Kirby's Dream Land 3 are the "best" Kirby games. And pretty much every time I drop by here, people are talking mostly about the SNES.

That's fine and all, I like the SNES too and have liked it since the early '90s. And I agree that some SNES entries are the best, such as Super Mario Kart. But in the case of the Mario adventure games, I have to disagree about SMW being the "best." When it comes to Mario games for the SNES, I always preferred Super Mario RPG over Super Mario World since first playing it. I don't even care that it's a spin-off and a different genre, it is just more fun IMO and has a far superior soundtrack (i'd love to import the 2-disc SMRPG soundtrack that came out in Japan someday). Super Mario Bros. 3 is the best and most iconic game in the franchise, and I've already listed the reasons why I believe it is a better game than Super Mario World.

NES>SNES

Edited December 12, 2022 by MegaMan52

[Reed Rothchild | 9,641]

1 hour ago, MegaMan52 said:

Apparently, every SNES entry in a series is the "best." Super Mario World is the "best" Mario game. A Link to the Past is the "best" Zelda game. Super Metroid is the "best" Metroid game. Donkey Kong Country 1 & 2 are the "best" Donkey Kong games. Mega Man X is the "best" Mega Man game. Castlevania IV is the "best" Castlevania game. The first F-Zero is the "best" F-Zero game. Yoshi's Island is the "best" Yoshi game. Kirby Super Star and Kirby's Dream Land 3 are the "best" Kirby games. And pretty much every time I drop by here, people are talking mostly about the SNES

Hell yeah, preach!

...I mean, aside from Castlevania.  That's just silly.  Everyone knows that Symphony is the king 

[AirVillain | 494]

5 hours ago, Tanooki said:

...and to think this WAS a mario world and mario 3 post.  Now we have AV there going into delusional dickery to re-write history to fit a narrative as some others like to do too.

Taking a line from star wars.  'Stay on target!  Stay on target!'  and just like Gold Five, this thread, and your grip on reality are both blown up.

 

Might as well lock the thread if this is going into some SMB2 whine fest no one asked for.

Hey now, settle down.... just joking around here. What's delusional? And I assume "AV" is me... but I'm not trying to re-write history. Haha.... I'm trying to clarify with Tulpa their side below.

It's a conversation worth having within the realm of "SMW vs. SMB3" post. Does it deserve it's own thread? Yes, I agree. But right now it's just a tangent.... buckle in for the ride! 

 

4 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Super Mario 2 is a 10/10 game you fools

I actually could agree in some terms. On its own, within the realm of the NES library, SMB2 is a 10/10 game... now when you compare it to other Mario games, then, well.... it's not great. 


 

5 hours ago, Tulpa said:

That assumes that they're even aware of us at all. I just don't think busy execs are even aware of the controversy, let alone care enough to try to feed into it. The game's 30+ years old at this point.

Like I said, this smacks of every loony conspiracy theory out there. It's fun to think about, but it's also tinfoil hat wearing crazy to think it's actually happening.

Can you help me understand what's going on here and what makes this a "loony conspiracy"? Genuinely. I'm not being sarcastic. Please correct what I'm not understanding:

Skinny said some NES exec somewhere said "oh yeah, SMB2 WAS meant to be a Mario game all along." I don't think that constitutes an elaborate cover-up.... 

So what I said was that BOTH could be true, as it's common knowledge that SMB2 was in fact based on Doki Doki Panic, and NOT intended to be a Mario game. 

Some old Nintendo Exec making one comment off the cuff doesn't seem elaborate at all to me, and if that's what he said, then.... he said it? @docile tapeworm Do we have a reference here?

If he didn't make the comment then I'd gladly step back, and let Skinny die on that hill on his own, haha. 

 

2 hours ago, MegaMan52 said:

Super Mario Bros. 3 is the best and most iconic game in the franchise, and I've already listed the reasons why I believe it is a better game than Super Mario World.

Excellent take and great photo's. Neat SMB3 collection. 

 

[docile tapeworm | 4,206]

@AirVillain @Link provided the information that suggests the prototype engine of the vertical gameplay that would eventually be used for doki, was originally developed with SMB in mind. Which I think is bs but who actually knows? I think it was originally a random project by Tanabe @Tulpa is a billionaire and knows that’s when you lose your personality, sense of humor and desire to have any fun and the angle tulpa uses that only five of us have a clue and care is a good joke too. How many views does the “smb2 is fake” YouTube video have? @PekoponTAS maybe it was local to me but Mario USA was always the “other one” as a child. I actually played the games out of order. The first Nintendo game I ever played was SMB/duck hunt (87’) then I got an action set in 88’ and smb3 the next Christmas. I didn’t play smb2 until after smb3 and I remember the first time I played it I thought “oh wow I wonder what 2 is like I bet it’s awesome!” I was excited at the option to pick a character but was soon disappointed with the gameplay. I never have liked the game. And like I said before I don’t remember getting a feeling from any of my friends that they liked it. It was always smb3 is the greatest to hell with that smb2 game. Same goes for zelda 2. It’s always been strange to me how people say they liked/like zelda 2 it was always the outcast in my local town/school. So when I found out later smb2 was a reskin it made sense to me. If the proto was intentionally created to be used with the Mario universe I don’t know. Tanabe’s says it was but he’s just said that recently and only because the idea smb2 is a fraud has been brought to his attention….. because five of us on this forum started a conspiracy theory and that was enough for it to be a relevant question to ask the employee of a billionaire game development company. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by docile tapeworm

[Tulpa | 3,569]

1 hour ago, AirVillain said:

Can you help me understand what's going on here and what makes this a "loony conspiracy"? Genuinely. I'm not being sarcastic. Please correct what I'm not understanding:

Skinny said some NES exec somewhere said "oh yeah, SMB2 WAS meant to be a Mario game all along." I don't think that constitutes an elaborate cover-up....
 

Skinny asserts that the comment was made to troll retrogamers. That to me is absolutely insane, because why would those execs even care to cover up the origins of a 30+ year old game? I mean, really.  Skinny just doesn't want to admit that the game had Mario origins from the start, so he asserts that that exec must be trolling.

That's the tinfoil hat shit I'm talking about.

I still love Skinny, but we all know he's wearing reflective headgear.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Tulpa

[Dr. Morbis | 2,099]

2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Hell yeah, preach!

...I mean, aside from Castlevania.  That's just silly.  Everyone knows that Symphony is the king 

Actually, Super Metroid is legit better than Metroid, so at least the SNES has one victory for "best of the series" in its entire library...

[Link | 2,768]

1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said:

It was always smb3 is the greatest to hell with that smb2 game. Same goes for zelda 2. It’s always been strange to me how people say they liked/like zelda 2 it was always the outcast in my local town/school.

Maybe you just didn't know. My experience was the opposite. We went absolutely nuts for Zelda 2 and Mario 2. Zelda 2 is STILL my fav Zelda game to this fuckin day, maybe beat out by BotW. But you're comparing SMB2 to SMB3, which tells me you came to SMB2 after the fact. Sure, Mario 3 is considered better and deservedly so but that doesn't invalidate Mario 2 in its time whatsoever. I continued to play and love both after the latter came out.

8 hours ago, AirVillain said:

What constitutes a Mario game????

The creator and owner of Mario says it's a real Mario game. Who the hell are you? You think Nintendo was gonna take a risk on destroying one of their two flagship franchises at the absolute height of their initial worldwide success by doing a "fake" thing with it? 

Are you gonna say like if Aerosmith puts out a blues album it's not a real Aerosmith abum? GTF outta here with this nonsense. Are both of you really so unaware of what was going on at the time?

SMB2USA was a runaway bonkers success, and never ever questioned as a true Mario game before some internet nerds decided to troll about it by showing off something they found out about that wasn't common knowledge back in the day because they wanted attention decades later. Yes, the story is interesting. No, it doesn't invalidate the game's position in the franchise. Super Mario 2 is a "real" Mario game, all the way.

[PekoponTAS | 171]

I'd also like to point out that the GBA remake of Super Mario Bros. 2 was called Super Mario Advance in both regions, meaning that both regions received the game under the same Mario branded title at one point. The only people who argue about the game not counting are people who don't like the game in the first place, and just want to re-write history so they can feel more comfortable about saying "I like the whole series".

The more normal fans who dislike it don't feel the need to pretend it doesn't exist.

Edited December 13, 2022 by PekoponTAS

[Reed Rothchild | 9,641]

2 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

Actually, Super Metroid is legit better than Metroid, so at least the SNES has one victory for "best of the series" in its entire library...

You're definitely free to be wrong about Zelda!

[docile tapeworm | 4,206]

@Link So your idea of why I think Mario USA and zelda 2 suck is because I missed the hype? I can see that. Mario USA never had a chance with me because of the order I was introduced to it. In my eyes SMB was mind blowing and smb3 was the natural progression, mario USA was a different game. The hype train definitely would have made my experience and initial feelings towards the two games different. And perhaps it would have carried me blindly into really enjoying the games. That does make sense. He man is a terrible cartoon but I loved the toys so much it made me love the cartoon too…

*shrugs* Aerosmith sucks and that was a poor analogy with the blues album idea.

I understand things don’t always get created in a straight line and I believe that does hold true with Mario USA. Prototype engine gets shelved, gets brought back for doki, Howard Phillips then doki gets reskinned. 

I don’t think Mario USA is a fake Mario game I just don’t think it’s a SMB game in the original trilogy. It got promoted as that in NA by default.