SMW is not great if you compare it to SMB3... Also, SMB2 stuff

[Link | 2,743]

On 7/23/2022 at 3:14 AM, Van Jackson said:

The end credits of SMB3 also allude to it being a play, as well.

and the platform blocks are bolted to the background like a stage set.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

6 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Why would they do that? It makes no sense. No one cared about skin ripoffs back then.

You think they hadn’t heard all the grumbling when the doki panic drama went down? Plus miyamoto seems like he likes to troll when it comes to answering questions like this.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

31 minutes ago, Link said:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/04/the-secret-history-of-super-mario-bros-2

 

“Make it a bit more mario like” 

Imo this implies the prototype hadn’t been worked on with Mario in mind. But I wonder how many times gameplay is a recipe that includes things from outside any particular development room. Like if I’m working on a recipe of cake and I’m not pleased with it. I see another cake recipe that I implement some ingredients from and it makes my cake more enjoyable to my clientele…now in the case of super Mario USA it was more like I took the entire recipe of another cake and just slapped some different icing on top. Has this cake been served elsewhere? Yes but you guys have never had it and we put different colored icing on top to…..(lack of vocabulary) fool you. 
 

also. Again, imo. Super Mario USA never would have existed if not for Howard Phillips. Because of him nintendo japan quick fixed the highly anticipated sequel to suit American audiences. Imo it did influence the rest of the SMB franchise of  games. Picking up enemies etc…

but super Mario USA is an adopted entry into the franchise. I used to say it’s not a real Mario game. And while I still believe it doesn’t have the same blood running through it. It’s still family. 

[Tulpa | 3,537]

30 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

You think they hadn’t heard all the grumbling when the doki panic drama went down? 

What drama? No one gave a shit back then, if they even knew.

And nowadays? Why would Nintendo even care that a few wankers didn't consider it a legit Mario game? A trillion dollar company is going to care what some neckbeards think about a thirty year old game?

This is like those convoluted conspiracy theories. 

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

11 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

What drama? No one gave a shit back then, if they even knew.

And nowadays? Why would Nintendo even care that a few wankers didn't consider it a legit Mario game? A trillion dollar company is going to care what some neckbeards think about a thirty year old game?

This is like those convoluted conspiracy theories. 

I’m not talking about back then. They only said the development of that vertical scrolling prototype was part of what made sm USA in 2011(?). 
 

the only wankers here are the ones holding on to their dear fake Mario game. let it go. It’s still regarded as a classic by half the community.

Edited July 28, 2022 by docile tapeworm

[Tulpa | 3,537]

5 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

I’m not talking about back then. They only said the development of that vertical scrolling prototype was part of what made sm USA in 2011(?).

Again, why would a company making more money in a minute than everyone here combined does in years be making shit up?

Come on, it was always a Mario game. Ya wanker.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

43 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Again, why would a company making more money in a minute than everyone here combined does in years be making shit up?

Come on, it was always a Mario game. Ya wanker.

Cause they are trolls having a cheap thrill.
Like I said. It’s part of the family. Even though it has red hair.

Edited July 28, 2022 by docile tapeworm

[Tulpa | 3,537]

Boy, I wish I had billions of dollars to troll people. I'd create a Mario game that people would complain wasn't a Mario game thirty years later.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

49 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Boy, I wish I had billions of dollars to troll people. I'd create a Mario game that people would complain wasn't a Mario game thirty years later.

Billion dollars or not. You got people asking about how legit your game is to the franchise 30 years later and an opportunity to have a little fun. Except when you become a billionaire you completely lose your sense of humor. Fitting opinion coming from you Wait let me just say. It’s true that my game was a complete rip off and we just fed you a recycled idea meant for something completely different… fans would love that. But even then people like you would cry it’s still a real Mario game.

im not mad you believe in your fake Mario game. Why are you coming at me?

Edited July 28, 2022 by docile tapeworm

[Tulpa | 3,537]

10 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

 Why are you coming at me?

Because you make it so easy.

 

Which scenario is more plausible?

1. They made a prototype that was intended for Mario, then developed it into Doki, and back into Mario.

2. A bunch of billionaire suits in Japan suddenly become aware of what a few fans think of a Mario game decades later, then decide they give a shit about what a few fans think of a Mario game decades later, decide to concoct an elaborate conspiracy, and then get a bunch of game journalists to support the theory. All the while developing newer, more relevant games and otherwise leading busy lives.

Yeah, I'm going with scenario one. It leaves me with less tinfoil on my head.

[Tulpa | 3,537]

BTW, I don't care that much about the Mario games. I just think this "theory" of yours is bonkers, that's all.

Still love ya!

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

1 hour ago, Tulpa said:

BTW, I don't care that much about the Mario games. I just think this "theory" of yours is bonkers, that's all.

Still love ya!

Scenario #3 prototype was never intended to be a Mario game. 30 years later after its known sm USA is just a reskin of doki doki, producers are asked about the cheap way out. Two options. One admit you were cheap. Two say it was always meant to be a Mario game. saving face.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

2 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Because you make it so easy.

 

You’ll say “it’s not worth it” in the end

[Tulpa | 3,537]

29 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

Scenario #3 prototype was never intended to be a Mario game. 30 years later after its known sm USA is just a reskin of doki doki, producers are asked about the cheap way out. Two options. One admit you were cheap. Two say it was always meant to be a Mario game. saving face.

And why would they care if people thought they were cheap in 1986 or whatever? Nintendo Power came out and said it was Doki back in the day, and no one gave a shit then.

This is where your theory falls apart. That Nintendo people even care what a bunch of retro gamer loons think of a game that only gets mentioned in retro mags. News flash, they don't.

Come on, you just don't want to admit that Link's article is authentic, that Mario was on the table from the beginning, and that it has always counted as a legit Mario game.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Tulpa

[Tulpa | 3,537]

33 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

You’ll say “it’s not worth it” in the end

You're always worth it.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Tulpa

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

19 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

And why would they care if people thought they were cheap in 1986 or whatever? Nintendo Power came out and said it was Doki back in the day, and no one gave a shit then.

This is where your theory falls apart. That Nintendo people even care what a bunch of retro gamer loons think of a game that only gets mentioned in retro mags. News flash, they don't.

Come on, you just don't want to admit that Link's article is authentic, that Mario was on the table from the beginning, and that it has always counted as a legit Mario game.

Links article is good. 
Seems I’m out of my league.

still it’s an adopted game in the franchise. Fake Mario game. No matter what they/you say. 

[Tanooki | 4,953]

And then it hit me, this is an argument between tulpa and a tapeworm, and well those are well parasites that feed off waste inside your system.  That explains more than any of this back and forward pointless arguing.

[NostalgicMachine | 254]

9 hours ago, Link said:

and the platform blocks are bolted to the background like a stage set.

I never thought of that!

It also explains why Mario can "go behind" by ducking on the white platforms; it's a stage set!

[Tulpa | 3,537]

44 minutes ago, Van Jackson said:

I never thought of that!

It also explains why Mario can "go behind" by ducking on the white platforms; it's a stage set!

It also explains why he breaks into Shakespearean soliloquies in World 5-1.

 

What, you guys never noticed that?

[Link | 2,743]

27 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

It also explains why he breaks into Shakespearean soliloquies in World 5-1.

 

What, you guys never noticed that?

I did

[Link | 2,743]

Many first-party Nintendo games begin with the technology. They experiment with controls or graphics, come up with something interesting, and then decide what character to use it with or create something new. It's somewhat like writing music.

One could, with only a little hyperbole, say SMB2USA just went further than others in pre-final development. In any case, with 2 or 3 nobody really questioned the different style at the time. Both games were gangbusters. Mario Madness!

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

I think I can solve the argument. Let’s debate what constitutes a “Mario” game. Is it something that is sold at retail that has Mario on the cover or in the title? Or is it something that was from development day one to include Mario as a main player character?

 

If you swap out a megaman 2 sprite with Mario, change his blaster to fireballs and have all the level bosses be koopas isn’t that a Mario game?

[Ankos | 467]

If after that point Mario games introduce a bunch of stuff from said Megaman-Mario game, yes. Because at that point stuff that was undeniably Mario would have been a sequel of sorts to the Megaman-Mario hybrid. If SMB2 USA had zero impact on the series after it's initial release, then I'd agree with you that there is little reason to view it as a Mario game. That is not the case though. There are shy guys in Mario 64 and Yoshi's Island, there is Birdo in a bunch of sports games, you can pull turnips in Super Mario Advance 4, etc. It's also been remade on multiple occasions as a Mario game, and has been included in Mario game compilations

I'll give an extreme example of something like this, where a game got rebranded and essentially changed series. Adventure Island was originally a Wonder Boy game. After getting rebranded it got sequels and those were not rebrandings of Wonder Boy games. Would you say the original Adventure Island is not an Adventure Island game? If not, then the logic that a game getting rebranded disqualifies it from being a "true" part of the series it was rebranded to must include some exceptions. My criteria for something being an exception is if it treated as a legitimate part of the adopted series by future entries. SMB2 USA fits that

Edited July 29, 2022 by Ankos

[Tanooki | 4,953]

@Ankos You're right, just off the top of my head given we know that SMB2(USA) and SMB3 were semi-co developed along side each other these days the amount of coincidences even for then lead one to see how even then they had ties, and then as you stated after the fact far more.  Just things that SMB3, later of the line, sports games, spinoffs(Mario RPG SNES or the lesser Paper and then M&L series), puzzle games, etc. did too.

- Uplift and throw/carry enemies as a weapon or kind of defense
- POW block inclusion from Mario Bros arcade, star man and mushroom from SMB1 and all later
- Shyguy and Birdo as you mentioned, but also Snifit, Pokey, walking bob-ombs, ninji, etc.
- The slot machine style mechanic as a way to earn more 1UPs (SMB3 has the single box vs 3 for immediate in 2.)
- Having the ability to pick from multiple Mario characters to play by the stage/world (New SMB went with it.)
- Then as again was said already re-releases, re-masters, digital releases, bundles(mario allstars snes, wii, download.)

There's more but to call it lesser or a fake is kind of insulting really.

[WhyNotZoidberg | 586]

I’d point point out that SMB3 has more random secrets than SMW: The coin ships, puzzle cards and all that. And there are bonus screens in some levels I’m not even sure I could get to without using Game Genie codes. And the reward might be some crap like a music box. But it makes things interesting to actually use cheats to explore everything, see what gives. And the fact that you can’t replay levels (which I think is weak) means that, for example, catching a whistle will lock you out of a stage, and not being able to dive back in _might_ create a form of longing, like you wish you could go back but you can’t.

Where SMW’s secrets are pretty much all formatted around finding the other exit(s), but this leads to having like, one huge secret which really impacts the game instead of dozens of small random ones that are just cool to discover.

I still think SMW is the superior game. Graphics, music, new mecanics, controls, Yoshi, World Map and save feature.

As opposed to @AirVillain’s sentiment, whenever I’m playing SMB3 I sorta wish I was playing SMW instead.

And since SMB2 USA is my favorite NES Mario:

SMW>SMB2>SMB>SMB3

Still love 3. But yeah, SMW IS great even when compared to SMB3.