General Sealed & Graded Discussion

[obnoxious | 107]

5 hours ago, inasuma said:

There’s also some Saturn games, with significant tears along edges and big chunks missing from corners, that are A+. 

Someone got some the night before, I suspect.

[3rdStrongestMole | 430]

9 hours ago, obnoxious said:

Watta hell, Wata??

A++ for a seal with a hole?

Edit: maybe the A++ was given because it was taken out of a sealed six pack.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/atari/river-raid-wata-94-a-sealed-1982-burgundy-box-2600-activision-1982-usa/a/312129-68019.s

 

[retro.magnus | 136]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:30 PM, inasuma said:

Stranger than fiction video by CooltrainerRyan. Looks like his Red got lost at Wata and finally got returned with a rip from when they took off the sticker and writing on the inner plastic holder. Wild.

 

PAIN. This is so awful. Even before all the stuff that's come out about WATA, I never ever felt comfortable paying them to remove stickers that I know I could do a better job with. Why leave that job up to some random person? If I damage my own game removing a sticker, that's my fault. I imagine they are using Bestine or something similar to remove just like I am.. 

I don't even attempt to remove those security stickers anymore bc they are such a PITA. Even if you get them off safely, the shrink is almost always wavy from where the sticker was. Just not worth it imo. 

[DefaultGen | 5,403]

12 hours ago, obnoxious said:

Watta hell, Wata??

A++ for a seal with a hole?

Edit: maybe the A++ was given because it was taken out of a sealed six pack.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/atari/river-raid-wata-94-a-sealed-1982-burgundy-box-2600-activision-1982-usa/a/312129-68019.s

My best guess would be it was damaged or worsened when they actually put it in the case, but after they graded it. But could just be loose grading. Buy the game, not the grade 

But real answer, it's a sealed River Raid who cares.

Edited September 13, 2021 by DefaultGen

[DefaultGen | 5,403]

16 hours ago, obnoxious said:

Watta hell, Wata??

A++ for a seal with a hole?

Edit: maybe the A++ was given because it was taken out of a sealed six pack.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/atari/river-raid-wata-94-a-sealed-1982-burgundy-box-2600-activision-1982-usa/a/312129-68019.s

Ha, I randomly went to HA to look at A+'s and this is the third one I looked at. Avert thine eyes. https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/gravitar-wata-94-a-sealed-1988-red-box-2600-atari-1983-usa/a/312137-67007.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I hope you guys are buying the game not the grade, etc.

[phart010 | 1,707]

31 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

Ha, I randomly went to HA to look at A+'s and this is the third one I looked at. Avert thine eyes. https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/gravitar-wata-94-a-sealed-1988-red-box-2600-atari-1983-usa/a/312137-67007.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I hope you guys are buying the game not the grade, etc.

In their defense, those types of holes were pretty common on Atari seals from the factory. So they’re NOT a defect from improper handling, that’s just the way they came from the factory. Do you count that against the grade of the seal or do you only count defects resulting from handling and circulation? 
 

Looks like Wata has chosen equality of outcomes for the seal grading

Edited September 13, 2021 by phart010

[DefaultGen | 5,403]

19 minutes ago, phart010 said:

In their defense, those types of holes were pretty common on Atari seals from the factory. So they’re NOT a defect from improper handling, that’s just the way they came from the factory. Do you count that against the grade of the seal or do you only count defects resulting from handling and circulation? 
 

Looks like Wata has chosen equality of outcomes for the seal grading

Boxes are going to get knocked around in handling and packing too, preventing 9.8s straight from factory cases. The grade should be the condition of the wrap, not the condition of the wrap minus what we think might have happened at the factory. I've got Atari games with these crappy holes in them but I don't look at them and sell "A+ for you, you get a gold star for trying your best!"

[inasuma | 1,203]

3 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

Ha, I randomly went to HA to look at A+'s and this is the third one I looked at. Avert thine eyes. https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/gravitar-wata-94-a-sealed-1988-red-box-2600-atari-1983-usa/a/312137-67007.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I hope you guys are buying the game not the grade, etc.

These are the types of things in the graded card scene that I'm happy to have continued habitually as I got into graded games this year, which is to always inspect the item regardless of the grade.

The reality is there are "strong" and "weak" PSA 10s. Just like how I have strong and weak Wata 9.6s in my own collection, along with strong and weak A+ seals (some with holes ). 

While I see it as the nature of grading to be subjective, it's pretty disheartening to see Wata grade some games on a curve based on likelihood of damage (e.g. saturn games which apparently use dog shit plastic seals). So taking Saturn as an example, they've said they don't use an absolute scale because of the circumstances of the seal quality, and unfortunately the end result will always be that the truly rare and highest of quality games on Saturn will be dragged down by the inflation of grades on other clearly low quality games.

Edited September 14, 2021 by inasuma

[OptOut | 8,884]

True, plus we all know that Final Fantasy 7 STINKS, and so therefore naturally attracts fruit flies... Any flies that wind up encapsulated with a copy of FFVII should be entirely disregarded for the purposes of grading! 

[jonebone | 1,307]

14 hours ago, DefaultGen said:

Ha, I randomly went to HA to look at A+'s and this is the third one I looked at. Avert thine eyes. https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/gravitar-wata-94-a-sealed-1988-red-box-2600-atari-1983-usa/a/312137-67007.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I hope you guys are buying the game not the grade, etc.

I'm sure that Zoom is making it look way worse than it is, but each platform (and sometimes titles) have known shrink issues and may skew higher.

Example, Mega Man 9 NES Press kit.  Those were sealed with an aftermarket seal and almost all of them had holes in the plastic somewhere.  On a true NES game, that's a no go and VGA would hammer them... 80+ tops.  Yet look at MM9 VGA 85 or even 85+, and the majority have big holes in the seal.

It can make it hard to assess grades if you don't know the subtle effects within each game or platform but that's just how it goes.  

[AnimalHouse | 117]

On 9/11/2021 at 7:59 PM, inasuma said:

it really sounds like wata is drowning in orders and as a result cutting corners. allegedly they do a final "quality" check but clearly they don't. Then there's the questionable rip in the seal which looks funnily just like what would happen if someone were to pull up a sticker on cellophane, that also happens to go outside the edge of the sticker. So IDK, feels fishy.

Bingo! The problem with Wata is the lack of time. Not to compare apples to oranges but if Wata wants to be the Amazon of grading. It will need to improve its efficiency. If not, its only going to get worse by end of Q4.

On 9/13/2021 at 12:19 AM, obnoxious said:

Watta hell, Wata??

A++ for a seal with a hole?

Edit: maybe the A++ was given because it was taken out of a sealed six pack.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/atari/river-raid-wata-94-a-sealed-1982-burgundy-box-2600-activision-1982-usa/a/312129-68019.s

I had a different issue last year. The label had a text error that needed to be fixed. Initial email with Wata's CS was denial but once I got them to recognize there mistake. They sent me a return label, 1 month later, the issue was resolved.

[Code Monkey | 2,008]

On 9/13/2021 at 2:59 PM, DefaultGen said:

Ha, I randomly went to HA to look at A+'s and this is the third one I looked at. Avert thine eyes. https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/gravitar-wata-94-a-sealed-1988-red-box-2600-atari-1983-usa/a/312137-67007.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I hope you guys are buying the game not the grade, etc.

That looks like a factory vent hole to prevent mould. Lots of games had them added (removed?) by the factory intentionally. That isn't going to subtract from the seal grade at all because nothing is damaged.

[inasuma | 1,203]

2 hours ago, AnimalHouse said:

Bingo! The problem with Wata is the lack of time. Not to compare apples to oranges but if Wata wants to be the Amazon of grading. It will need to improve its efficiency. If not, its only going to get worse by end of Q4.

I had a different issue last year. The label had a text error that needed to be fixed. Initial email with Wata's CS was denial but once I got them to recognize there mistake. They sent me a return label, 1 month later, the issue was resolved.

I'm curious if you included a picture of the typo and they still denied it. lol

[AnimalHouse | 117]

3 hours ago, inasuma said:

I'm curious if you included a picture of the typo and they still denied it. lol

Thats exactly what happened. In my 2nd email, I used multiple examples. Each detailing how the seal rating NS on the front but none read "1st party H seam" on the back like mine did. A day later, Megan acknowledged the label was suspicious to her and needed "a couple of days" to reach out to the Grading and Labeling Dept Team Leaders. A couple of days turned into a month.

If they were very busy than, I can imagine the waiting process taking longer now.

Edited September 15, 2021 by AnimalHouse

[inasuma | 1,203]

On 9/14/2021 at 4:42 AM, jonebone said:

I'm sure that Zoom is making it look way worse than it is, but each platform (and sometimes titles) have known shrink issues and may skew higher.

Example, Mega Man 9 NES Press kit.  Those were sealed with an aftermarket seal and almost all of them had holes in the plastic somewhere.  On a true NES game, that's a no go and VGA would hammer them... 80+ tops.  Yet look at MM9 VGA 85 or even 85+, and the majority have big holes in the seal.

It can make it hard to assess grades if you don't know the subtle effects within each game or platform but that's just how it goes.  

Eh, I think I disagree. Adding a skew inherently devalues the truly high quality games in the group. 

12 hours ago, AnimalHouse said:

Thats exactly what happened. In my 2nd email, I used multiple examples. Each detailing how the seal rating NS on the front but none read "1st party H seam" on the back like mine did. A day later, Megan acknowledged the label was suspicious to her and needed "a couple of days" to reach out to the Grading and Labeling Dept Team Leaders. A couple of days turned into a month.

If they were very busy than, I can imagine the waiting process taking longer now.

That’s some next level kicking the can.

[AnimalHouse | 117]

5 hours ago, inasuma said:

That’s some next level kicking the can.

Yes and this was from last year. This year, it appears to be happening more frequently. I'm glad I double check my games when they come back otherwise I wouldn't have noticed. I recommend everyone to do the same. *knock on wood* I hope none of my current orders have any issues.

[Alder | 243]

So apparently Wata damaged this game when they tried to clean it? I'd love to know if anything else comes of this.

 

[phart010 | 1,707]

1 hour ago, Alder said:

So apparently Wata damaged this game when they tried to clean it? I'd love to know if anything else comes of this.

 

The source video that Pat is discussing was already posted on the previous page of this thread. 

[AnimalHouse | 117]

On ebay, here's a Wata graded Friday the 13th nes listing with label error.

[obnoxious | 107]

23 minutes ago, AnimalHouse said:

On ebay, here's a Wata graded Friday the 13th nes listing with label error.

Wata can't even get their own labels right

 

Look up the serial number this was graded 9.8 A++ but was labeled a 9.6 A++. Take that for what it's worth as WATA won't respond to us. I don't see anything wrong with this game and in our opinion should be a 9.8 A++.

[inasuma | 1,203]

9 hours ago, AnimalHouse said:

On ebay, here's a Wata graded Friday the 13th nes listing with label error.

What? How are we supposed to look it up using the serial number again? Or is that the scam aka they’re lying about the 9.8?

[inasuma | 1,203]

Side note getting really tired of sellers auctioning their games and then relisting the item when it doesn’t sell for a sufficient amount. It takes two brain cells just just turn off auction and turn on buy it now with whatever overshot price they expect it to reach.

[ExplodedHamster | 404]

14 hours ago, obnoxious said:

Wata can't even get their own labels right

 

Look up the serial number this was graded 9.8 A++ but was labeled a 9.6 A++. Take that for what it's worth as WATA won't respond to us. I don't see anything wrong with this game and in our opinion should be a 9.8 A++.

Under their old system, there were rare cases where grades changed after being initially put into the system. I forget why. It’s why they changed their entire system so grades don’t show until the game has shipped. It forces them to put in the final grade. I’m guessing this was one that was changed before shipping under the older system.

Edited September 18, 2021 by ExplodedHamster

[AnimalHouse | 117]

6 hours ago, inasuma said:

Side note getting really tired of sellers auctioning their games and then relisting the item when it doesn’t sell for a sufficient amount. It takes two brain cells just just turn off auction and turn on buy it now with whatever overshot price they expect it to reach.

You must be referring to this guy. The seller has a great selection of games but is not the type of person who always honors a sale after it has ended. Here are a number of examples I tracked:

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by AnimalHouse

[tidaldreams | 654]

26 minutes ago, AnimalHouse said:

You must be referring to this guy. The seller has a great selection of games but is not the type of person who always honors a sale after it has ended. Here are a number of examples I tracked:

 

 

Wow, look at those negatives  How are they even still on ebay? Thanks, I blocked this person.

EDIT: looks like they've sold a number of dirt cheap games to pad their feedback

Edited September 18, 2021 by tidaldreams